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To Church or Not To Church - That is the question.. - 3/30/2009 6:16:20 PM
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CheshireMuse
Posts: 119
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What do you do when you can't stand the idea of setting foot in a church? When you literally feel genuine panic and extreme discomfort attending?
DH and I both come from backgrounds that include what some would call "spiritual abuse".... I'm not sure I'd go that far with it, but our experiences definitely belong in the "bad-Christians-happening-to-good-people" category.
What do you do when you are automatically suspicious of anyone who calls themself 'Christian'?
It's so prevalent, that neither of us refer to ourselves using that term - even though we both are saved and love the Lord. We refer to ourselves as "followers of Christ" usually.
Neither of us has a problem with Christians one-on-one.... on a level playing field, so to speak. But, (for both of us) the idea of attending church conjures the same internal response of, say, a germophobe being asked to eat food off the ground.
We both read our Bibles, engage in personal study, etc on our own.
We've both tried to get past this. We found a small church (thinking size was part of the problem) and tried to attend. Spirit-filled, solid teaching... the pastor was very nice, and the people (those that we interacted with) seemed very nice, too.....
But, we were both so nervous we couldn't really get anything out of it.
Neither of us have social anxiety in any other situation.... Has anyone else ever had any experience with this? Or known anyone who has had this problem?
_____________________________
Peace,
Muse
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RE: To Church or Not To Church - That is the question.. - 3/30/2009 7:12:51 PM
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navyblueret
Posts: 1971
Joined: 11/29/2008
From: S/W Nebraska
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CheshireMuse, Shalom.
You must have endured much 'vertical' abuse, back when, to be as sensitive as you are to being in a Church crowd, however small, and I am drawing a blank as to any ability to guide you.
May I ask, where do you normally sit, when you do go to church? Right up front is the best place, sort-of like you own that building, and you do not care who is there with you, until you turn around and smile. You should only convey one idea to the Church group, as to why you are there (convey to self also) and that is: You are there to worship your God, and Messiah, with all your heart, strength, and being (and do just that).
If you sit in the back, and spiritually cower in the corner, you can never enjoy being there, nor respect those who speak to you, as your thoughts would be neurotic, at best.
Plan to go to a Church meeting, determined to enjoy the worship, and recharge your spiritual batteries. Offer to the group what you desire from them, in a 'horizontal' communicative way. You might even share your witness, as to your reluctance to be in large Church groups, and request consideration of your slow acceptance of brotherly reception. Be honest. Pray to Jesus for strength. Know in your heart that we are the 'parts' of His Church, and without your participation, the body of Christ has a blemish.
Wow, aren't you glad I didn't have much to say? Nuff-said-from-me-for-now.
In Messiah, His Shalom, and Joy of belonging. Arley
_____________________________
In the name of 'THE' Mashiach, Man the wall, set the watch, sound the Shofar. Our redemption draws nigh.
Messiah, my Captain, and Helmsman.
(Joh 14:6 KJV) ... I am the way, the truth, and the life: ...
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RE: To Church or Not To Church - That is the question.. - 3/30/2009 7:15:14 PM
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NotDoneYet
Posts: 210
Joined: 12/11/2007
From: Virginia
Status: online
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CheshireMuse writes:
quote:
Neither of us have social anxiety in any other situation.... Has anyone else ever had any experience with this? Or known anyone who has had this problem?
I have the same problem...for different reasons...I TRIED to go to church b/c my husband and kids wanted to go, a few years ago. I just could NOT make myself walk in the door...I ended up walking to starbucks while they were in the service...I am a non-believer...and I just CAN'T do it. I'm steeling myself for a wedding I have to attend later this summer...in a church.
NDY
_____________________________
Remember, normal is just a setting on the dryer!
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RE: To Church or Not To Church - That is the question.. - 3/30/2009 8:31:40 PM
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drmark
Posts: 4637
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:
It's so prevalent, that neither of us refer to ourselves using that term - even though we both are saved and love the Lord. We refer to ourselves as "followers of Christ" usually. If the Holy Spirit convicts you to obey Hebrews 10:25 then I'm sure the Holy Spirit will heal you of your anxiety!
[edited by moderator]
< Message edited by Ps103 -- 3/30/2009 10:34:16 PM >
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: To Church or Not To Church - That is the question.. - 3/30/2009 9:25:46 PM
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Lukasaurus
Posts: 111
Joined: 3/15/2009
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Perhaps the grace of God and person of Jesus Christ might be enough to bring you into His Church, which is not just a building, regardless of how his followers act.
I read this somewhere once:
If a hypocrite stands between you and God, the hypocrite is still closer to God than you are (not calling Drmark a hypocrite.. I don't know him).
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RE: To Church or Not To Church - That is the question.. - 3/30/2009 9:32:04 PM
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NotDoneYet
Posts: 210
Joined: 12/11/2007
From: Virginia
Status: online
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quote:
If a hypocrite stands between you and God, the hypocrite is still closer to God than you are (not calling Drmark a hypocrite.. I don't know him).
And hypocricy is one of the things that is MOST likely to send me in the opposite direction. It is something I detest with all my being and have strived to NEVER, EVER act in a hypocritical manner. That is one quality that I cannot and will not tolerate in myself, my family, my children or my friends...EVER.
_____________________________
Remember, normal is just a setting on the dryer!
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RE: To Church or Not To Church - That is the question.. - 3/31/2009 10:08:44 AM
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CheshireMuse
Posts: 119
Joined: 8/23/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: navyblueret
CheshireMuse, Shalom.
You must have endured much 'vertical' abuse, back when, to be as sensitive as you are to being in a Church crowd, however small, and I am drawing a blank as to any ability to guide you.
There were several years of it, for both of us...
May I ask, where do you normally sit, when you do go to church? Right up front is the best place, sort-of like you own that building, and you do not care who is there with you, until you turn around and smile. You should only convey one idea to the Church group, as to why you are there (convey to self also) and that is: You are there to worship your God, and Messiah, with all your heart, strength, and being (and do just that).
If you sit in the back, and spiritually cower in the corner, you can never enjoy being there, nor respect those who speak to you, as your thoughts would be neurotic, at best.
We've always sat toward the back. DH would laugh and say that we needed to be close to the exits, just in case.
Plan to go to a Church meeting, determined to enjoy the worship, and recharge your spiritual batteries. Offer to the group what you desire from them, in a 'horizontal' communicative way. You might even share your witness, as to your reluctance to be in large Church groups, and request consideration of your slow acceptance of brotherly reception. Be honest. Pray to Jesus for strength. Know in your heart that we are the 'parts' of His Church, and without your participation, the body of Christ has a blemish.
Wow, aren't you glad I didn't have much to say? Nuff-said-from-me-for-now.
In Messiah, His Shalom, and Joy of belonging. Arley
Wow, Arley..... that really gave me some things to mull over. Ya know? For a person who didn't know how to guide me, you did a pretty good job. Thank you. :-)
_____________________________
Peace,
Muse
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RE: To Church or Not To Church - That is the question.. - 3/31/2009 10:15:46 AM
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CheshireMuse
Posts: 119
Joined: 8/23/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: NotDoneYet
CheshireMuse writes:
quote:
Neither of us have social anxiety in any other situation.... Has anyone else ever had any experience with this? Or known anyone who has had this problem?
I have the same problem...for different reasons...I TRIED to go to church b/c my husband and kids wanted to go, a few years ago. I just could NOT make myself walk in the door...I ended up walking to starbucks while they were in the service...I am a non-believer...and I just CAN'T do it. I'm steeling myself for a wedding I have to attend later this summer...in a church.
NDY
I'm so sorry that you have this issue - but, at the same time, I'm relieved to know that we're not all by our lonesome on this one....
Two weeks ago, I was to meet my mother at her church for the early service (my oldest son was leading praise and worship that morning). She was late and I was in an absolute panic - sitting there alone. Granted my son was there, but he was otherwise occupied - plus, I would have rather eaten razor blades than admit my fears to him.
I don't want my son thinkin' his mom's a whiny-baby. LOL
_____________________________
Peace,
Muse
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RE: To Church or Not To Church - That is the question.. - 3/31/2009 10:17:04 AM
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CheshireMuse
Posts: 119
Joined: 8/23/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
It's so prevalent, that neither of us refer to ourselves using that term - even though we both are saved and love the Lord. We refer to ourselves as "followers of Christ" usually. If the Holy Spirit convicts you to obey Hebrews 10:25 then I'm sure the Holy Spirit will heal you of your anxiety!
[edited by moderator]
I sincerely hope that is the case. :-)
_____________________________
Peace,
Muse
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RE: To Church or Not To Church - That is the question.. - 3/31/2009 10:23:11 AM
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CheshireMuse
Posts: 119
Joined: 8/23/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lukasaurus
Perhaps the grace of God and person of Jesus Christ might be enough to bring you into His Church, which is not just a building, regardless of how his followers act.
I read this somewhere once:
If a hypocrite stands between you and God, the hypocrite is still closer to God than you are (not calling Drmark a hypocrite.. I don't know him).
Perhaps you're right..... maybe I should stop worrying about this and leave it in God's hands.
_____________________________
Peace,
Muse
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RE: To Church or Not To Church - That is the question.. - 3/31/2009 10:24:11 AM
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CheshireMuse
Posts: 119
Joined: 8/23/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: NotDoneYet
quote:
If a hypocrite stands between you and God, the hypocrite is still closer to God than you are (not calling Drmark a hypocrite.. I don't know him).
And hypocricy is one of the things that is MOST likely to send me in the opposite direction. It is something I detest with all my being and have strived to NEVER, EVER act in a hypocritical manner. That is one quality that I cannot and will not tolerate in myself, my family, my children or my friends...EVER.
Amen.... :-)
_____________________________
Peace,
Muse
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RE: To Church or Not To Church - That is the question.. - 3/31/2009 10:39:18 AM
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CheshireMuse
Posts: 119
Joined: 8/23/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: crankius
quote:
ORIGINAL: NotDoneYet
CheshireMuse writes:
quote:
Neither of us have social anxiety in any other situation.... Has anyone else ever had any experience with this? Or known anyone who has had this problem?
I have the same problem...for different reasons...I TRIED to go to church b/c my husband and kids wanted to go, a few years ago. I just could NOT make myself walk in the door...I ended up walking to starbucks while they were in the service...I am a non-believer...and I just CAN'T do it. I'm steeling myself for a wedding I have to attend later this summer...in a church.
NDY
Yikes. Maybe you could just find some great Christian folks who are doing Bible study in their home, and start there. Many churches have home Bible studies that you can attend.
That would be really cool....
CheshireMuse,
Not sure, but maybe if you and your husband closely examine why the spiritual abuse happened, and exactly where the church went wrong Scripturally, you would not have quite so much anxiety about finding and attending a healthy church.
Perhaps you have already done this?
We've talked about it (at length) - his experience and mine. Sadly, both situations were classic examples of (Christian) people behaving (very) badly. Friends, even.
I suppose I'm just reluctant to let my guard down again.
I'll have to work on that....
_____________________________
Peace,
Muse
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RE: To Church or Not To Church - That is the question.. - 3/31/2009 11:00:02 AM
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drmark
Posts: 4637
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
I'm so sorry that you have this issue - but, at the same time, I'm relieved to know that we're not all by our lonesome on this one.... CheshireMuse, did you read why NDY does not want to attend church? Since you are "followers of Christ", I do not see how that situation relates to you two or would be grounds for "relief".
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: To Church or Not To Church - That is the question.. - 3/31/2009 11:00:34 AM
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crankius
Posts: 3755
Joined: 4/12/2005
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It's good that you have discussed it. I don't think you need to let your guard down--I'll explain.
Troublesome times teach us, and the next time these particular troublesome things begin to happen, we are better able to discern what is happening.
If the problems were Scriptural, which most likely they were, then being grounded in the Word will give you confidence, and you'll be equipped to discern when things might be going awry.
You and your husband have gained discernment which will help you navigate through future church issues, and this should give you some confidence and strength--God allows testing to build our perseverance, right? Keep your faith well grounded in God and His Word, and know that people will always fail you in one way or another.
So I say choose a church wisely, and attend with gladness, joy, and discernment. Christ loved His flawed church so much He died for her; knowing this might help you persevere in finding a quality, Biblical fellowship to be part of.
_____________________________
Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
Church Covenants
wepanicinapew 
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RE: To Church or Not To Church - That is the question.. - 3/31/2009 11:34:09 AM
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navyblueret
Posts: 1971
Joined: 11/29/2008
From: S/W Nebraska
Status: offline
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Cheshiremuse, Shalom.
May I offer: You and your husband may well have been handed a fantastic gift. OK, perhaps I am missing the mark, but do not think so; hear me out, please. My fingers feel like talking.
I know little about the particulars of your experience, but the indications are that you saw behavior that is, to put it nicely, 'Alien' to behavior a member of God's family should display. I further presume that those showing that 'Alien' behavior did not know they were outside the pattern of behavior that God would have them be. I further presume, that any and all communication, you may have attempted, fell upon deaf ears, even unto hostility. OK, enough for the presumptive groundwork. If I am wrong, do not read further, but pull out your mental delete button, and never read beyond this point.
Consider, please, that you may well have been given the opportunity to live before the twisted believers, as an example of true Christianity. You can do this by 'girding up, spiritually arming up, and 'crossing' up, to go before them as an excellent example of Christianity, worthy of emulation. Think Christian, Speak Christian, Do Christian, Represent Jesus, not self. You will be in a war zone, possibly chastised, by some, for a while, until those who begin to see the course of their error, and changing of that error, come to your rescue, and back to living, speaking, and thinking as true Christians (People of Christ Jesus).
I did not say anything about this in my previous post, but I walked away from Christ because of my reception in my, then, Church, when they began calling me a Baby Killing Warmonger. I was actually blaming Jesus for their behavior. After some years of being my own Church, unto myself, I began to realize that my relationship with Jesus was wanting for something. More searching later, I realized that I needed my fellow family members, to be able to grow beyond an academic learning of His word. Long story, shortened, I put on His armor, and entered the Church to display my Love for Jesus, and to communicate it to the world. I even had to depart a couple of churches, as they had deviated so far from Christianity, that I could make no loving progress. S O, I sought out, and found out other Congregations that I could fit in with, and many saw my faith, and changed theirs back to Jesus, to glorify Him. He did a lot of 'fishing,' using my Love for him. We, He through me, lost a few, but We netted more than my ability to net 'zero' could. I am happy with His progress through me, and my wonderful feeling of being of some service to Him.
Enough about me. Please consider going forth as 'Christian soldiers, of the Cross,' onward into Loving battle. The Church of Jesus, the followers of Jesus, His family, needs people, like you, who will stand tall, and display the Christianity Jesus wants to see in all.
In Messiah, His Shalom, and fortitude. Arley
_____________________________
In the name of 'THE' Mashiach, Man the wall, set the watch, sound the Shofar. Our redemption draws nigh.
Messiah, my Captain, and Helmsman.
(Joh 14:6 KJV) ... I am the way, the truth, and the life: ...
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RE: To Church or Not To Church - That is the question.. - 3/31/2009 12:16:19 PM
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CheshireMuse
Posts: 119
Joined: 8/23/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
I'm so sorry that you have this issue - but, at the same time, I'm relieved to know that we're not all by our lonesome on this one.... CheshireMuse, did you read why NDY does not want to attend church? Since you are "followers of Christ", I do not see how that situation relates to you two or would be grounds for "relief".
Yes, I did.
Sometimes it just helps knowing another person feels the same way you do - even if it's for different reasons. It makes a person feel less alone - less abnormal.
It's ok that you don't see how I relate to NDY - I see it... :-)
_____________________________
Peace,
Muse
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RE: To Church or Not To Church - That is the question.. - 3/31/2009 12:18:43 PM
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CheshireMuse
Posts: 119
Joined: 8/23/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: crankius
It's good that you have discussed it. I don't think you need to let your guard down--I'll explain.
Troublesome times teach us, and the next time these particular troublesome things begin to happen, we are better able to discern what is happening.
If the problems were Scriptural, which most likely they were, then being grounded in the Word will give you confidence, and you'll be equipped to discern when things might be going awry.
You and your husband have gained discernment which will help you navigate through future church issues, and this should give you some confidence and strength--God allows testing to build our perseverance, right? Keep your faith well grounded in God and His Word, and know that people will always fail you in one way or another.
So I say choose a church wisely, and attend with gladness, joy, and discernment. Christ loved His flawed church so much He died for her; knowing this might help you persevere in finding a quality, Biblical fellowship to be part of.
Wow, you can certainly find the silver lining in any cloud! LOL....
You're right, crankius - we learned so much that we most certainly will be able to spot this behavior right off the bat....
_____________________________
Peace,
Muse
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RE: To Church or Not To Church - That is the question.. - 3/31/2009 12:24:49 PM
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CheshireMuse
Posts: 119
Joined: 8/23/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: navyblueret
Cheshiremuse, Shalom.
May I offer: You and your husband may well have been handed a fantastic gift. OK, perhaps I am missing the mark, but do not think so; hear me out, please. My fingers feel like talking.
I know little about the particulars of your experience, but the indications are that you saw behavior that is, to put it nicely, 'Alien' to behavior a member of God's family should display. I further presume that those showing that 'Alien' behavior did not know they were outside the pattern of behavior that God would have them be. I further presume, that any and all communication, you may have attempted, fell upon deaf ears, even unto hostility. OK, enough for the presumptive groundwork. If I am wrong, do not read further, but pull out your mental delete button, and never read beyond this point.
Actually, you pretty much nailed it..... how perceptive you are, Mr. NavyVet..... :-)
Consider, please, that you may well have been given the opportunity to live before the twisted believers, as an example of true Christianity. You can do this by 'girding up, spiritually arming up, and 'crossing' up, to go before them as an excellent example of Christianity, worthy of emulation. Think Christian, Speak Christian, Do Christian, Represent Jesus, not self. You will be in a war zone, possibly chastised, by some, for a while, until those who begin to see the course of their error, and changing of that error, come to your rescue, and back to living, speaking, and thinking as true Christians (People of Christ Jesus).
I did not say anything about this in my previous post, but I walked away from Christ because of my reception in my, then, Church, when they began calling me a Baby Killing Warmonger.
THAT'S TERRIBLE!!!!!! I'm so very sorry they said those things to you...
I was actually blaming Jesus for their behavior. After some years of being my own Church, unto myself, I began to realize that my relationship with Jesus was wanting for something. More searching later, I realized that I needed my fellow family members, to be able to grow beyond an academic learning of His word. Long story, shortened, I put on His armor, and entered the Church to display my Love for Jesus, and to communicate it to the world. I even had to depart a couple of churches, as they had deviated so far from Christianity, that I could make no loving progress. S O, I sought out, and found out other Congregations that I could fit in with, and many saw my faith, and changed theirs back to Jesus, to glorify Him. He did a lot of 'fishing,' using my Love for him. We, He through me, lost a few, but We netted more than my ability to net 'zero' could. I am happy with His progress through me, and my wonderful feeling of being of some service to Him.
Enough about me. Please consider going forth as 'Christian soldiers, of the Cross,' onward into Loving battle. The Church of Jesus, the followers of Jesus, His family, needs people, like you, who will stand tall, and display the Christianity Jesus wants to see in all.
In Messiah, His Shalom, and fortitude. Arley
Thank you so much for sharing that with me. You've definitely given me loads of stuff to think about.
_____________________________
Peace,
Muse
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RE: To Church or Not To Church - That is the question.. - 3/31/2009 1:13:54 PM
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rofaith
Posts: 93
Joined: 1/17/2008
From: rofaith, a believer
Status: offline
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Cheshire.... I had a similar experience early in my Christian experience in an Assemblies of God church. It wasn't the church or the Pastor, they were fine, albeit a bit legalistic. Rather, it was a small group of members I befriended.... if you didn't put on your "praise-the-lord-happy-mask" you were essentially ridiculed.... it extended to whether I clapped hands or raised my hands in worship and to this day, I refrain from either often .... it also, more alarmingly extended into one on one relationships where these friends would be one way one on one, and be different in a crowd, or maybe spiritual-mob would be a better term. There were also betrayals and legalistic controlling behaviors etc...
I believe, it's something the Lord is going to go after eventually in me in order for me to be free. There are "safe" churches.... read a great book by Cloud and Townsend called Safe People... it addresses the safe and unsafe christian and might be beneficial.
You are not alone in your suffering with spiritual abuse, there are others as well. It's difficult to talk about because in a lot of evangelical churches, it's not really safe to talk about.... find a safer body of Christ so that you can fellowship.... if you isolate, you are an easy pick off for the enemy....
peace and grace...
_____________________________
There is no other name....
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RE: To Church or Not To Church - That is the question.. - 3/31/2009 1:40:05 PM
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CheshireMuse
Posts: 119
Joined: 8/23/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rofaith
Cheshire.... I had a similar experience early in my Christian experience in an Assemblies of God church. It wasn't the church or the Pastor, they were fine, albeit a bit legalistic. Rather, it was a small group of members I befriended.... if you didn't put on your "praise-the-lord-happy-mask" you were essentially ridiculed.... it extended to whether I clapped hands or raised my hands in worship and to this day, I refrain from either often .... it also, more alarmingly extended into one on one relationships where these friends would be one way one on one, and be different in a crowd, or maybe spiritual-mob would be a better term. There were also betrayals and legalistic controlling behaviors etc...
I believe, it's something the Lord is going to go after eventually in me in order for me to be free. There are "safe" churches.... read a great book by Cloud and Townsend called Safe People... it addresses the safe and unsafe christian and might be beneficial.
You are not alone in your suffering with spiritual abuse, there are others as well. It's difficult to talk about because in a lot of evangelical churches, it's not really safe to talk about.... find a safer body of Christ so that you can fellowship.... if you isolate, you are an easy pick off for the enemy....
peace and grace...
Thank you so much for sharing that with me - and the book recommendation. I'll look for it on Amazon as soon as I'm finished here.
I worry about our isolating ourselves, too. It can be so easy to get off track, doctrinally speaking..... and I don't want to risk that.
On the upside - DH loves to discuss theology/doctrine/church/etc.... and so we talk about it ALL the time. We're doing different studies, but he'll tell me about what he's looking at, I'll tell him what I'm looking at.... we compare notes, etc... It's one of our favorite activities... lol (yeah, we're nerds....lol.... but, we're God's nerds)...
Thank you again for taking time to speak with me. :-)
It is definitely appreciated...
_____________________________
Peace,
Muse
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RE: To Church or Not To Church - That is the question.. - 4/7/2009 3:32:18 PM
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davelinde
Posts: 475
Joined: 5/5/2006
From: New Jersey
Status: offline
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It sounds like you need to forgive the past wrongs. It seems like you have transferred your mistrust of some individuals to the church at large. The irony is that THEY were wrong and now you are paying the price. Forgive it and let it go, then move on. Easier said than done, but I don't know another way.
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RE: To Church or Not To Church - That is the question.. - 4/7/2009 3:40:04 PM
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doinkdom
Posts: 5592
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: The higher lowcountry
Status: offline
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Is it the church building and structure that give you "heartburn" or the people?
Have you considered a house church with sound doctrine and plurity of elders? It's more of a small group with everyone participating.
I would also suggest some prayer about forgiving past wrongs. Nothing in scripture gives an assurance of being a lone ranger Christian.
Please don't let something in the past keep you from the present.
_____________________________
Thanksgiving dinners take eighteen hours to prepare.
They are consumed in twelve minutes.
Half-times take twelve minutes.
This is not coincidence.
~Erma Bombeck
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RE: To Church or Not To Church - That is the question.. - 4/8/2009 7:23:23 AM
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facedown
Posts: 841
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: the urban desert
Status: offline
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for a period of time, i would find a monastery, trappist or otherwise, and rest. go to their daily offices if they are nearby.
go to an eastern orthodox church. spend some time in an anglican community.
maybe the issue isn't so much you cant stand to be in church - but something deeper, that something is wrong, not with the Church, but with the church. that's what i hear from you.
so what do you do? you could sit at the house (which is a good thing), or you could get out - or - do both. but if you get out, and you enter into another community - another expression of our triune faith - even if you don't understand what you smell, hear, taste, or see - you may find something beautiful that will linger no matter where you go next.
pax christi
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