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Laura Ingram exposes Rick Warren - 4/7/2009 5:21:19 PM
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Rick4Him
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Did anyone listen to Laura Ingram today? She really let Warren have it for trying to ride the fence on the gay marriage issue in California. He truly does throw his followers under the bus when he makes statements like he did on Larry King last night. He said he was for marriage between a man and a women and then states he called all his gay frineds and apologized for it? HUH, This all just goes to show seeker friendly models like PDC doesn't place God's truth above all, but instead places man at the center. We need to pray for him.
He also stated he was worried about the recession worsening the spiritual climate in America. Since when does our material posessions dictate how we do spiritually. If anything we all ought to be closer to God in these troubling times.
http://www.usnews.com/blogs/god-and-country/2009/04/07/rick-warren-stopping-gay-marriage-very-low-on-priority-list.html
Rick
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RE: Laura Ingram exposes Rick Warren - 4/7/2009 5:31:51 PM
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earthless
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Stuff that a lot of us have been saying about Warren and his "Purpose Drive Life" material. Which is really just a watered down version of the Word of Faith teachings.
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RE: Laura Ingram exposes Rick Warren - 4/7/2009 5:42:31 PM
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DougHorton
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We can thank God Warren has gay friends to call. Most Christians are too hypocritical to admit having a gay friend.
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Doug
You may think it strange, but he never likes any assistance. When he made the world, he did not ask the angel Gabriel so much as to cool the molten matter with his wing, but he did it entirely himself. -- Spurgeon
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RE: Laura Ingram exposes Rick Warren - 4/7/2009 5:44:23 PM
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earthless
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Doug,
The problem is not in having gay friends or calling gay people, please. Why would he apologize for supposedly believing the biblical truth that marriage is between one man and one woman?
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RE: Laura Ingram exposes Rick Warren - 4/7/2009 5:52:28 PM
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DougHorton
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Duh... For the same reason Tony Campolo wept in front of an audience of gays, to explain that as hard as it was, he had to tell them their lifestyle of sin would hurt them.
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Doug
You may think it strange, but he never likes any assistance. When he made the world, he did not ask the angel Gabriel so much as to cool the molten matter with his wing, but he did it entirely himself. -- Spurgeon
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RE: Laura Ingram exposes Rick Warren - 4/7/2009 6:06:49 PM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DougHorton
Duh... For the same reason Tony Campolo wept in front of an audience of gays, to explain that as hard as it was, he had to tell them their lifestyle of sin would hurt them.
No need for a "duh".
Your comparisons are false. One is of an individual telling people that homosexuality is a sin. And the other is an individual calling to apologize to his gay friends that he claims to adhere to the biblical definition of marriage.
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RE: Laura Ingram exposes Rick Warren - 4/7/2009 6:14:45 PM
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DougHorton
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And you were privy to those personal calls?
Gossip is just as much a sin as homosexuality.
Is this discussion worth our time? No. Bye.
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Doug
You may think it strange, but he never likes any assistance. When he made the world, he did not ask the angel Gabriel so much as to cool the molten matter with his wing, but he did it entirely himself. -- Spurgeon
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RE: Laura Ingram exposes Rick Warren - 4/7/2009 7:08:37 PM
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GodsMusic
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There's none so blind as he who chooses not to see.
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RE: Laura Ingram exposes Rick Warren - 4/7/2009 7:51:04 PM
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Rick4Him
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Doug,
It isn't gossip if you are quoting what Warren said on national TV. Anyway I would say everything I mentioned above to Warren's face because I saw his PD stuff tear apart a very good conservative church. His program should be called CDC (Compromise Driven Church). I believe Warren is sincere, but I also believe he's deceived. Anyone who has to walk a tightrope to keep from offending people isn't truly sold out to the Gospel of Christ.
Rick
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RE: Laura Ingram exposes Rick Warren - 4/8/2009 7:06:40 AM
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facedown
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R4H
no, i didn't catch that show. read the linked article. and you didn't quite "quote" anything. take for example your position on the following:
quote:
I'm interested in what the recession is doing to the spiritual climate of our nation.
you mis-quoted this as: "...He also stated he was worried about the recession worsening the spiritual climate in America..."
earthless
i think dougs basically right, *if* we don't know what exactly was said how can one comment either way? but in the context of the article, it seems the apology was in response to some sort of response to his statement that he does in fact believe that marriage should be defined as between a man and a woman. but that he felt his comments were warped into being some sort of hate monger, and in turn he called on some folks and said essentially (assuming here, based on the context of the interview): hey, you guys know i don't 'hate' you.
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RE: Laura Ingram exposes Rick Warren - 4/8/2009 1:41:12 PM
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Rick4Him
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quote:
ORIGINAL: facedown
R4H
no, i didn't catch that show. read the linked article. and you didn't quite "quote" anything. take for example your position on the following:
quote:
I'm interested in what the recession is doing to the spiritual climate of our nation.
you mis-quoted this as: "...He also stated he was worried about the recession worsening the spiritual climate in America..."
earthless
i think dougs basically right, *if* we don't know what exactly was said how can one comment either way? but in the context of the article, it seems the apology was in response to some sort of response to his statement that he does in fact believe that marriage should be defined as between a man and a woman. but that he felt his comments were warped into being some sort of hate monger, and in turn he called on some folks and said essentially (assuming here, based on the context of the interview): hey, you guys know i don't 'hate' you.
First of all I didn't say I was quoting Rick. I also attached the quote he made, so it wasn't like I was hiding anything. And if you know Rick Warren like I do, he is worried about the economic situation playing a role in spiritual matters. So please don't paint me as a heretic hunter. I just stated what everyone knows as the truth.
Rick
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RE: Laura Ingram exposes Rick Warren - 4/8/2009 1:44:01 PM
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Rick4Him
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quote:
i think dougs basically right, *if* we don't know what exactly was said how can one comment either way? but in the context of the article, it seems the apology was in response to some sort of response to his statement that he does in fact believe that marriage should be defined as between a man and a woman. but that he felt his comments were warped into being some sort of hate monger, and in turn he called on some folks and said essentially (assuming here, based on the context of the interview): hey, you guys know i don't 'hate' you.
facedown,
""i think dougs basically right, *if* we don't know what exactly was said how can one comment either way? but in the context of the article, it seems the apology was in response to some sort of response to his statement that he does in fact believe that marriage should be defined as between a man and a woman. but that he felt his comments were warped into being some sort of hate monger, and in turn he called on some folks and said essentially (assuming here, based on the context of the interview): hey, you guys know i don't 'hate' you. ""
That isn't an apology.
Rick
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RE: Laura Ingram exposes Rick Warren - 4/8/2009 4:10:41 PM
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c_h_b
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Rick4Him
HUH, This all just goes to show seeker friendly models like PDC doesn't place God's truth above all, but instead places man at the center. We need to pray for him.
No, it goes to show that Rick Warren, as an individual human being, is imperfect.
Yes we need to pray for him and the thousands of people who determine every doctrine they don't like to be flawed based on a "guilt by association". Look close enough and you will find the leaders of any "great movement" in Christianity to be flawed, sometimes in ways that would give concern for the genuineness of their faith.
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Charles
"Jesus is good medicine, khenoronkhwa!"
Jonathan Maracle and Broken Walls
"We never quarrel about religion, because it is a matter which concerns each man and the Great Spirit."
Red Jacket 1805
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RE: Laura Ingram exposes Rick Warren - 4/8/2009 4:15:14 PM
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c_h_b
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A lot of people have a pretty two-dimensional concept of apology.
I can make a statement to one of my gay friends that I believe his lifestyle is ultimately destructive and doesn't align with God's order of things. I can do so while saying "I'm sorry that my saying this hurts you, for that is not my intention. But I must be honest about my convictions."
There, I've apologized to a gay friend concerning my stand on gay marriage. Have I compromised my stand in any way?
We all must take care not to take part of the facts and use it to present a situation inaccurately, simply because we are looking to fuel our dislike for a person.
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Charles
"Jesus is good medicine, khenoronkhwa!"
Jonathan Maracle and Broken Walls
"We never quarrel about religion, because it is a matter which concerns each man and the Great Spirit."
Red Jacket 1805
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RE: Laura Ingram exposes Rick Warren - 4/8/2009 7:41:45 PM
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rofaith
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I listened to the interview this AM and looked for what is being discussed here. Rick Warren apologized because the press, gay groups etc had taken his words and twisted them(any surprise ? ) in such a way that it appeared he was insulting gay people. To my knowledge, Christ never insulted anyone. He did tell them what He thought of sin though. (i.e. the adulteress woman). Rick Warren has made it very clear that he does not support gay marriage and that's the way it is. He's said it to the Saddleback Church Congregation on at least 6 separate occasions in one week because the press and gay groups were again, misrepresenting what his stand was etc.....and posted a public video stating his views.
I agree with the previous post that apologies have to be interpreted very closely. Rick Warren was not apologizing for his stand regarding same sex marriage, rather in love and in an attempt show the same love that Christ showed to the adulteress woman, he made sure he was interpreted correctly so as not to insult gays. This in my mind, is a respect for God's creation, not a respect for what a person created by God chooses to do in their lifestyle... in this case, homosexuality which is clearly sin.
As for PDL being heretical.... many lives have been changed and literally thousands if not more today live for Christ faithfully. Blogs are an easy way for the tongue to lash out in public without accountability.... many things can be done in the name of "false teachers', even maligning and falsely accusing a sincere and bible believing man in Christ like Rick Warren. I don't always agree with him... believe me, I am not carrying his water so to speak. But, I am always careful to not insult and malign others in public. I don't believe God approves of some of the language used sometimes wrt other Christians who are well within the boundaries of the Narrow Road in Christ in forums and blogs...
as for Laura Ingraham.... please, she's a political figure stating an opinion, not necessarily truth.... enough said on that... <gosh, did I insult her in public>
blessings....
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RE: Laura Ingram exposes Rick Warren - 4/8/2009 8:25:16 PM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rofaith
To my knowledge, Christ never insulted anyone.
Please reread the Gospels. Jesus insulted a lot of people. As did the Apostles and disciples.
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RE: Laura Ingram exposes Rick Warren - 4/8/2009 9:16:36 PM
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Sammy_S
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rofaith
I listened to the interview this AM and looked for what is being discussed here. Rick Warren apologized because the press, gay groups etc had taken his words and twisted them(any surprise ? ) in such a way that it appeared he was insulting gay people. To my knowledge, Christ never insulted anyone.He did tell them what He thought of sin though. (i.e. the adulteress woman). Rick Warren has made it very clear that he does not support gay marriage and that's the way it is. He's said it to the Saddleback Church Congregation on at least 6 separate occasions in one week because the press and gay groups were again, misrepresenting what his stand was etc.....and posted a public video stating his views.
I agree with the previous post that apologies have to be interpreted very closely. Rick Warren was not apologizing for his stand regarding same sex marriage, rather in love and in an attempt show the same love that Christ showed to the adulteress woman, he made sure he was interpreted correctly so as not to insult gays. This in my mind, is a respect for God's creation, not a respect for what a person created by God chooses to do in their lifestyle... in this case, homosexuality which is clearly sin.
As for PDL being heretical.... many lives have been changed and literally thousands if not more today live for Christ faithfully. Blogs are an easy way for the tongue to lash out in public without accountability.... many things can be done in the name of "false teachers', even maligning and falsely accusing a sincere and bible believing man in Christ like Rick Warren. I don't always agree with him... believe me, I am not carrying his water so to speak. But, I am always careful to not insult and malign others in public. I don't believe God approves of some of the language used sometimes wrt other Christians who are well within the boundaries of the Narrow Road in Christ in forums and blogs...
as for Laura Ingraham.... please, she's a political figure stating an opinion, not necessarily truth.... enough said on that... <gosh, did I insult her in public>
blessings....
Christ didn't insult anyone?Tell that to the Pharisees."Brood Of Vipers" anyone?
Many Lives have been changed?Pelegus,Joseph Smith and Mohamed have changed many lives as well.Doesn't mean squat.people can be changed by many many things,but the sound doctrine saves,not "changes'.
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"Peace if possible,truth at all cost"-Martin Luther
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RE: Laura Ingram exposes Rick Warren - 4/9/2009 12:36:07 AM
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rofaith
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quote:
Christ didn't insult anyone?Tell that to the Pharisees."Brood Of Vipers" anyone?
Many Lives have been changed?Pelegus,Joseph Smith and Mohamed have changed many lives as well.Doesn't mean squat.people can be changed by many many things,but the sound doctrine saves,not "changes'.
Dearest Sammy_s..... your view on this is noted... I should have qualified my statement.... though, I wouldn't count the Pharisees, whom obviously deserved the "Brood of Vipers" insult, in the same category as the adulteress woman.... there's a huge difference. The latter of which called Him Lord and was told to go and sin no more. We are not told if she really did... I am assuming she did.
As for your statement regarding changed lives, you are correct in the context you state your view, however it is not the context on to which I made the statement about changed lives. In the latter part of the same statement was the qualifier that stated that the changed lives were in Christ, not some heretical, gnostic or otherwise unsound doctrine. I fully agree with you though regarding the appearance of changed lives that lying doctrines like Mormonism, Islam and other gnostic doctrines that seemed to have disappeared but in reality, never have. They have just reappeared with "different clothes" on deceiving many.
Rick Warren and his father have changed lives for Jesus Christ. Their fruit is the love they have for the sinner(not the sin) without justifying their sin, as well their ministry to the poor, dying, starving, the orphan, the widow, the victims of genocide and sexual slavery in Rwanda, Sudan and the Far East. God is getting the glory, not Mr. Warren. He lives the same life he lived prior to PDL and the book driving an old Ford Explorer in the same house....no Mercedes Benz or house with 25 bedrooms here. He lives in the same house he raised his kids in.... Is he rough around the edges... Wow, he sure is. But so am I and so are you... we are walking a journey where our character and behaviors are being transformed grace upon grace...by His precious blood on the cross.... from Justification to Sanctification to seeing Him someday, face to face. I will be face-down on the carpet in heaven on that day and I believe so will RW and so will you, all of us in sheer gratefulness for having something we don't deserve.....we will only have one word to say....Jesus.
Not sure if this gives y ou peace concerning RW and I am not sure I could, but IMHO, it's at least a reasonable defense of him being hugely misunderstood by those who hate Jesus, don't attend his church, don't know him or don't ascribe to his approach to living out the Gospel of Jesus Christ because it isn't the traditional view in evangelical and fundamentalist circles in North America. It has helped many more churches than it has hurt. Usually it's because of people not PDL or the Biblical approach it follows that is the issue..... another topic, but IMHO, evangelicals and fundamentalists are stuck in a huge rut of unhealthy tradition today.... discuss that separately on another day...
Nevertheless, you and I can be @ peace since we are both believers in our good God and Savior Jesus Christ who loved us and gave Himself for us..... Amen....
blessings....
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RE: Laura Ingram exposes Rick Warren - 4/9/2009 12:40:06 AM
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rofaith
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: rofaith
To my knowledge, Christ never insulted anyone.
Please reread the Gospels. Jesus insulted a lot of people. As did the Apostles and disciples.
Dear earthless... .please see my reply to Sammy_s..... the context is what is important and I should have qualified my statement....peace.
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RE: Laura Ingram exposes Rick Warren - 4/9/2009 8:46:31 AM
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Soxfan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: rofaith
To my knowledge, Christ never insulted anyone.
Please reread the Gospels. Jesus insulted a lot of people. As did the Apostles and disciples.
Don't forget, The Purpose Driven Jesus does not insult people.
_____________________________
"This would be the first step in apostasy; men first forget the true, and then adore the false.".......C.H. Spurgeon
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RE: Laura Ingram exposes Rick Warren - 4/9/2009 8:52:26 AM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Soxfan
Don't forget, The Purpose Driven Jesus does not insult people.
True, that explains the relativism in a lot of self-professing Christians.
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RE: Laura Ingram exposes Rick Warren - 4/9/2009 11:02:06 AM
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PolarBear
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Can someone note a specific teaching of heresy in PDL? There are a lot of people in good Christian churches that really like it. My singles group went through it several years ago. Myself, I didn't really read it, just listened to the discussion, and it seemed mostly like stuff that anyone who has been Christian for any amount of time should already know. I've always thought that fascination with it was evidence of infancy in the church, not heresy.
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Tip of the day: "You" has three letters, not one. It is spelled Y-O-U.
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RE: Laura Ingram exposes Rick Warren - 4/9/2009 2:15:27 PM
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Soxfan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PolarBear
Can someone note a specific teaching of heresy in PDL? There are a lot of people in good Christian churches that really like it. My singles group went through it several years ago. Myself, I didn't really read it, just listened to the discussion, and it seemed mostly like stuff that anyone who has been Christian for any amount of time should already know. I've always thought that fascination with it was evidence of infancy in the church, not heresy.
I don't recall heresy being mentioned.
However, the Gospel is watered down, Scripture is taken out of context in order for Warren to make a point, known enemies of Christianity are often quoted.
To me, a PARTIAL Gospel is a FALSE Gospel
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"This would be the first step in apostasy; men first forget the true, and then adore the false.".......C.H. Spurgeon
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RE: Laura Ingram exposes Rick Warren - 4/9/2009 3:45:17 PM
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c_h_b
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I find a great deal arrogance inherent is thinking "Jesus insulted the Pharisees, so I am free to insult people".
An insult is intended to humiliate another for the sake of self-aggrandizement. Is this what Jesus did?
We are servants. The Master is perfect, so if Jesus delivered what we interpret as an insult, that is where we first go wrong. Jesus didn't call the Pharisees a brood of vipers for His own selfish purposes. He said it because strong words were needed in a situation where thousands of souls were at stake.
Then some of us servants come along and think we can emulate this, even though we are not perfect and certainly don't know the secrets of others' hearts?
I'm not perfect enough to think I can do this sort of thing. If you are, more power to you.
_____________________________
Charles
"Jesus is good medicine, khenoronkhwa!"
Jonathan Maracle and Broken Walls
"We never quarrel about religion, because it is a matter which concerns each man and the Great Spirit."
Red Jacket 1805
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