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RE: Hal Lindsey Report - 4/21/2009 1:50:51 AM
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Matthew-59
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
Roy...as I think about it, it seems that Paul spent quite a bit of time talking about the second return of Christ and warning people about what to expect and he was a lot father away from the end then we.
Maybe he just got carried away.
Bob
Excellent point!! No one can refute that. And no Paul didn't get carried away (as I'm sure you meant), but he only fulfilled the ministry that God gave him to do.
Personally I like Hal Lindsey, Jack Van Impe, John Hagee, and others like them. I believe they are simply ministering in the area that God has placed on their heart to do. Not everyone is suppose to be a prophecy preacher/teacher, just like not everyone is suppose to be a pastry chef. We all have our own areas of ministry. Does the hand say to the foot; I have no use for you? Of course not! As Christians we are all a part of the body of Christ and are to work in the area He has placed us. To scoff at these guys for the ministry they have been called to from God is clearly unwise. And I've never once heard any of them set a date for the rapture or the second coming of Christ, but only say that it is near. Near could mean 100 years, 50 years, 5 years, 5 months, or 5 minutes. No one knows, but we do know that it is near. It is certainly nearer today than it was yesterday. I personally believe we have less than 4 years before the rapture, but do not stop my life in waiting for it within that time frame. As Bob97 alluded to, Christ's second coming is certainly nearer now than when Paul preached about it. That's irrefutable.
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Edited for easier understanding.
< Message edited by Matthew-59 -- 4/21/2009 1:19:17 PM >
_____________________________
 Matthew 
5:9
"Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God."
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RE: Hal Lindsey Report - 4/21/2009 8:19:42 AM
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Eutychus
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quote:
ORIGINAL: yzf-r1
I haven't seen Hal in many years, but, inspired by this thread, I recorded the "Hal Lindsey Report" and I enjoyed it.
Just curious: Did he admit to his errors of the past or pretend he never made them?
I don't doubt his latest was enjoyable. He always knew how to keep people's attention, much like Mark Twain and other great story tellers always have. It's the content that began to bother me over time.
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RE: Hal Lindsey Report - 4/21/2009 8:22:36 AM
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Eutychus
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Matthew-59
Personally I like... John Hagee...
What about his refusal to target Jews with the Gospel because he believes they get saved a different way than Gentiles?
Hagee has the ring of authority - unless you actually pay attention to his doctrines.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Hal Lindsey Report - 4/21/2009 3:52:17 PM
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Eutychus
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Matthew-59
I am not going to argue with you about John Hagee. That's not what this thread is about anyway. You either like him or you don't...
Nothing to do with liking him. If he teaches heresy, I will not wink and grin and brag on his delivery. Just like I won't ignore 4-5 decades of failed "prophecy" by entertainers like Lindsey, who on more than one occasion predicted imminent disaster of planet earth by now defunct regimes like the USSR - but he's yet to admit his error. But truth and accuracy isn't important to everyone, some like a good showman, regardless of the effectiveness of the snake-oil they sell.
quote:
I wonder if you aren't believing a lie you heard from some unreputable source.
That's really edifying...
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Hal Lindsey Report - 4/21/2009 7:55:10 PM
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gentlefriend
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I watch Hal's show. I am not sure whether his prophecy's are accurate or not, but one thing I really like about his show is he brings us news reports in which my newspapers omit. The Boston Globe was bad mouthing Israel at one time for their attack on Palestine, yet when I turned on hal's show he showed where the Israelites warned the Palestinians of their plans and provided them with supplies and where to avoid being hit. Something the globe omitted. Something I admire Israel for...even in the face of adversary, they are still merciful.
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RE: Hal Lindsey Report - 4/22/2009 12:34:19 AM
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Matthew-59
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gentlefriend
I watch Hal's show. I am not sure whether his prophecy's are accurate or not, but one thing I really like about his show is he brings us news reports in which my newspapers omit. The Boston Globe was bad mouthing Israel at one time for their attack on Palestine, yet when I turned on hal's show he showed where the Israelites warned the Palestinians of their plans and provided them with supplies and where to avoid being hit. Something the globe omitted. Something I admire Israel for...even in the face of adversary, they are still merciful.
Well said, gentlefriend. 
I'm reminded that Hal (and others like him) is just as human as the rest of us and may have made a mistake or two over the years, I wouldn't argue that, nor do I know of any mistakes, but as it says in John 8:7, "He who is without sin, cast the first stone". I know that Hal and others like him have predicted many things over the years, but just because these things haven't happened yet, doesn't negate the prediction. It simply means it hasn't happened yet. Who knows what tomorrow will bring, except He who holds tomorrow in the palm of His hand. To pass Hal or others off as heretics just because they said something 50 years ago and it hasn't happened yet, is foolish. Now if they actually put a "date and time" to it, and it didn't happen within that time frame, then I'd say the prediction should be thrown out, but not the person necessarily.
BTW; Did Hal say USSR, or did he say Russia?? Big difference there. I know Jack Van Impe never said USSR, but has preached about "The coming war with Russia" over 55 years ago. I have the CD of it and not one word of it needs to be changed! I still believe that what he said is going to happen soon, and I am pretty sure Hal Lindsey teaches the same thing as Jack did. If anyone has any proof to the contrary, I'd like to see it posted here.
_____________________________
Matthew
5:9
"Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God."
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RE: Hal Lindsey Report - 4/22/2009 8:13:54 AM
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Eutychus
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Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment.
-James 3:1
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RE: Hal Lindsey Report - 4/22/2009 8:16:50 AM
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Peter_Gunn
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As I've said before, and some seem to think the same as well, I don't want to "throw out the baby with the bathwater." I think the wise thing to do, with ALL human exhorters, is to weigh what they are saying now, and hold their teaching up to the light of scripture.
Even if someone has made mistakes in the past on particular issues, but otherwise appears to be knowledgeable, it's worth considering what they're saying and give it the litmus test of scripture.
I'd never want to be guilty of letting my pride get in the way of understanding the truth. (Although I know it has before!  )
_____________________________
I desire to be strange to the world, so that I might be strong for Jesus.
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RE: Hal Lindsey Report - 4/22/2009 8:26:18 AM
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Eutychus
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Peter_Gunn
As I've said before, and some seem to think the same as well, I don't want to "throw out the baby with the bathwater." I think the wise thing to do, with ALL human exhorters, is to weigh what they are saying now, and hold their teaching up to the light of scripture.
Even if someone has made mistakes in the past on particular issues, but otherwise appears to be knowledgeable, it's worth considering what they're saying and give it the litmus test of scripture.
I'd never want to be guilty of letting my pride get in the way of understanding the truth. (Although I know it has before! )
I suppose it would be a complete waste of time posting a list of cult figures like Garner Ted Armstrong to David Koresh that such statements have been and are being made by followers willing to excuse and overlook "minor" errors so long as they give them that warm, fuzzy sense of rightness. Ignore the big red flags of error to your own peril, but that is one reason we have been given scripture.
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RE: Hal Lindsey Report - 4/22/2009 8:51:26 AM
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Eutychus
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Matthew-59
....I know Jack Van Impe never said...
In a booklet published in 1976, Jack Van Impe gives us these endtime signs, "The Energy Crisis [you may recall, we had just come through some rather drastic gasoline shortages in 1973-1974, RW], Famine, Immorality, Liquor and Drugs, and Terrorism" (What In The World Is Happening?" 1976. pp. 29-36). In connection with the latter point, he has this to say, "God's Word is beginning to unfold before our eyes. Judgment is about to fall for all of the 'rottenness' that runs rampant in our beloved land. If it does not commence in 1976, I have no doubt that unbelievable calamities will occur before 1980. It could easily be the predicted Tribulation hour" (Ibid. p. 37).
...
In 1979, he gave us these endtime signs, "False Christ’s, Wars and Rumours of wars, Famine and Pestilence’s [In this connection, he references Dr. Paul Erlich, Department of Agriculture, saying, "The world will literally run out of food by 1984." RW], Earthquakes, When Planets Align [In this connection, he says, "As the nine planets of our solar system align themselves in 1982, their gravitational pull may cause huge storms on the sun. These could alter wind direction, rainfall and temperature patterns, affect the earth's rotation and cause great earthquakes" He quotes John Gribbin of Britain's Nature Magazine" and Stephen Plagemann, NASA's Goddard Space Center, as his authorities. RW], and Iniquity Shall Abound" (Signs of The Times, 1979. pp. 13 - 18).
Jack Van Impe apparently forgot what he had said in 1976, or he may have figured that the people would not know any better, or that God may have changed His Mind! Needless to say, each time this man has opened his mouth as a prophet in the last twenty years and a little more, he has been something other than a "renowned prophecy scholar." He has been proven to be a false prophet time and time again, but the fact that he lies to the millions who listen to him never seems to embarrass him. Sadly, those who succumb before him apparently find some measure of delight in his unscriptural "Endtime Signs"; that is, if they have any memory of what he has said previously. As Jeremiah indicated, "the prophets lie," and "the people love to have it so."
Snippet from this page. It also contains more false prophesies from Lindsey and others.
If you really care to spend some eye-opening reading time, go to Google and simply enter
hal lindsey false prophet
You'll get about 16,000 pages to choose from.
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RE: Hal Lindsey Report - 4/22/2009 9:19:00 AM
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Peter_Gunn
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
...cult figures like Garner Ted Armstrong to David Koresh...
I personally haven't done much research on Lindsey, but I'd hesitate to lump him in with those guys. There are some men who I respect that feel Lindsey has some good messages to offer. I will be checking into the links you provided, though. Thanks for your work!
_____________________________
I desire to be strange to the world, so that I might be strong for Jesus.
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RE: Hal Lindsey Report - 4/22/2009 12:50:06 PM
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Matthew-59
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Peter_Gunn
quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
...cult figures like Garner Ted Armstrong to David Koresh...
I personally haven't done much research on Lindsey, but I'd hesitate to lump him in with those guys. There are some men who I respect that feel Lindsey has some good messages to offer. I will be checking into the links you provided, though. Thanks for your work!
I agree with Peter here, and include Jack Van Impe as one I wouldn't lump in with those guys mentioned. First of all, I have yet to hear Jack proclaim himself as a prophet, but only a teacher of biblical prophecy regarding end times and more. So to call him a false prophet is a bit much, and unwise. Also, I don't see anywhere that says Jack proclaimed that these events WILL happen, but only that they COULD happen during those time frames. Big difference there. However, I'll keep looking.
Eutychus,
Let me take a guess here and say that you aren't a pre-tribulation rapture, millennial reign of Christ here on earth, believer. Yes/No?? This is the only explanation I can come up with to your criticisms. Is there any other way to see it?
_______________________________________
Prov. 22:10-11
Throw out the mocker, and fighting goes, too.
Quarrels and insults will disappear.
Whoever loves a pure heart and gracious speech
will have the king as a friend.
_____________________________
Matthew
5:9
"Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God."
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RE: Hal Lindsey Report - 4/22/2009 1:09:55 PM
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eschatologist
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lexi_09
All I can say is  I know many here do not care for Hal Lindsey. But I sense urgency in his words.
Hal Lindsey Report 4-10-09
That was a good report of the signs of the times. I already knew a lot of these things. People always try to put down conspiracy theories but the circumstancial evidence of it abounds everywhere. The fact that a few influencial people control all the money and markets of the world is a true fact. The present worldwide economic meltdown was specifically engineered by these few people. They have the ability and the influence to create economic meltdowns and/or to create economic stability at will whenever they want to. Wall Street is like a gambling casino. The house always wins. Even though you might win a few hands or a jackpot in the slot machines, for most people, this causes them to want play more and more to try and win even more. But if you keep on playing, the house always eventually wins it all back with interest. The one thing that casinos hate the most is somebody who wins a large amount then takes off with his winnings without playing anymore and giving the house a chance to win it back. Where does all the money go during a wall street crash? Straight into the pockets of the big-shot money boys who control the world's financial markets.
What Hal Lindsay said about the Federal reserve is true. It was created by these same money mongers to create a worldwide credit system to lend money out to people, and governments, and business', with interest, for the purpose of syphoning all the world's wealth into the hands of these few nameless, faceless creatures who commit spiritual fornication with the whore of Babylon. It's all for power money and glory and to create a one world government in which they control the world behind the scenes, and everybody is their slave. As the proverb says, "The borrower is servant to the lender."
All these things are signs of the times that we are living in the time of the end and that the very end when the antichrist rises to power may be just around the corner.
Everything that happened in the world from the time of Jesus first coming and His death and resurrection until now is to prepare the world or set the stage for the last great battle between good and evil, between God and the devil, between the devil's followers and God's followers who have the testimony of Jesus. Now, in this modern era, the world seems to be racing toward a one world government and the antichrist and the mark of the beast so fast that it makes your head spin. So, we know that it can't be long before it all starts to wind down to the very end.
So, Hal Lindsay and others are right on reporting these different "Signs of the times" as they happen. The mistake that many of them make is when they try to put a time line on these events and try to predict the year, or month, or day when these things will occur. They're going to be wrong every time. Jesus himself said, "It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father has put in His own power." In other words, when it comes to exact dates when these things will occur, God is the only one who knows.
But Jesus did warn us that we are to watch and look for the signs of the times so that when it does happen we will be prepared. "Now learn a parable of the fig tree; when his branch is yet tender and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near even at the doors. ...But of that day and hour knoweth know man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only....Watch therfore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come....Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh...But and if that servant say in his heart my Lord delayeth His coming; The Lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, and shall cut him asunder and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 24:32-51)
So, the Lord does want us to watch and pray and be prepared at any time for these things to start happening. But He doesn't want us to start predicting exact dates. After all if we knew the exact dates when the antichrist will come to power and when Jesus will return we might get lazy and lackadaisical about it all. For example if we knew the Lord was coming back in the year 2035 we might say, Oh well, as soon as we start getting close to this date then I'll start preparing myself. If the early disciples had known that it was going to be another 2,000 or more years before Jesus comes back do think it might have changed their attitude about the urgency of the situation and caused them to slow down a bit? God knew what He was doing when He refused to divulge the exact times and seasons to anybody. The Lord wants us to be prepared at all times by staying close to Him and praying and watching for the "signs of the times". This is one of the things that helps us to stay close to the Lord.
So, it's a good thing that Hal Lindsay and some of these others are pointing out different signs to prove that we are getting closer and closer to the time of the very end. Just don't be decieved when they start trying to predict exact dates.
As far as calling any of them false prophets, I would like to refer you to I John 4:2-3, "Hereby know ye the spirit of God: Every Spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God." At the end of his report, Hal Lindsay gave the salvation message and that Jesus is the only way to salvation and preached forgivness of sins through Jesus. This proves that he is a man fo God who knows Jesus. The fact that some people make mistakes and are wrong in some of their predictions does not make them a false prophet. We should always go back to the basics of what do they think of Jesus. Many of the prophets and Apostles in the bible made mistakes and blew it on occasion, and their mistakes are in the bible so that we can learn from them. But their mistakes do not make them any less Apostles or men of God.
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RE: Hal Lindsey Report - 4/22/2009 1:26:09 PM
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bob97
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quote:
At the end of his report, Hal Lindsay gave the salvation message and that Jesus is the only way to salvation and preached forgivness of sins through Jesus.
Amen to that eschatologist...we want to condemn others because they do not agree with our theology but do we really understand their message? And...is our position always right?
Lindesy says some things about the finial salvation of Israel but until I would set down with him and let him explain what he really thinks who am I to judge? The point is God says...all Israel will be saved and we can take that to the bank. How God brings that about is something He did not fully disclose.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Hal Lindsey Report - 4/22/2009 1:47:03 PM
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Peter_Gunn
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quote:
ORIGINAL: eschatologist
After all if we knew the exact dates when the antichrist will come to power and when Jesus will return we might get lazy and lackadaisical about it all. For example if we knew the Lord was coming back in the year 2035 we might say, Oh well, as soon as we start getting close to this date then I'll start preparing myself. If the early disciples had known that it was going to be another 2,000 or more years before Jesus comes back do think it might have changed their attitude about the urgency of the situation and caused them to slow down a bit? God knew what He was doing when He refused to divulge the exact times and seasons to anybody. The Lord wants us to be prepared at all times by staying close to Him and praying and watching for the "signs of the times". This is one of the things that helps us to stay close to the Lord.
Good post, eschatologist!
I want to zero in on the point you made in the above paragraph. I think it explains a lot. I know several learned Christian men, whom I respect highly, who almost get upset when anyone mentions that the time of Christ's return could be really close. They say, and rightly so, that people have been saying that for the past 2000 years. I was beginning to think they were seeing a different world situation these days than I!
However, giving it more thought, I think it may be that they are afraid that they're not ready. Not in the sense that they're not saved, but they feel they haven't done enough or "won enough souls" and thus are not ready to face the Lord...maybe they have imposed impossible standards on themselves. Or, it could be, as you pointed out, if one thinks they have lots and lots of time ahead of them, they get a little more relaxed. (Kind of like a teenager who thinks 30 is ancient but he, himself, is immortal.  )
I dare not say these things to these men...it's definitely not a subject that matters to them, eternally. But I can pray that the Lord will lay upon their hearts to either give themselves a break, if that's what's needed, or to get busy out in the field!
_____________________________
I desire to be strange to the world, so that I might be strong for Jesus.
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RE: Hal Lindsey Report - 4/22/2009 2:01:56 PM
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Eutychus
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Matthew-59
Eutychus,
Let me take a guess here and say that you aren't a pre-tribulation rapture, millennial reign of Christ here on earth, believer. Yes/No?? This is the only explanation I can come up with to your criticisms. Is there any other way to see it?
I was raised from early teens in the 60s through the 90s as a die-hard premil/pretrib. I also was Lindsey/Van Impe lover and follower. Their accumulated error finally made me rethink my loyalty to their ilk.
Redefine it if it makes you happy, but anyone that claims to interpret events and how they will play out in light of their understanding of biblical prophecy is a prophet.
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RE: Hal Lindsey Report - 4/22/2009 2:04:27 PM
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Eutychus
Posts: 6339
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From: Dothan, AL
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Peter_Gunn
However, giving it more thought, I think it may be that they are afraid that they're not ready. Not in the sense that they're not saved, but they feel they haven't done enough or "won enough souls" and thus are not ready to face the Lord...maybe they have imposed impossible standards on themselves. Or, it could be, as you pointed out, if one thinks they have lots and lots of time ahead of them, they get a little more relaxed. (Kind of like a teenager who thinks 30 is ancient but he, himself, is immortal. )
I dare not say these things to these men...it's definitely not a subject that matters to them, eternally. But I can pray that the Lord will lay upon their hearts to either give themselves a break, if that's what's needed, or to get busy out in the field!
I bet that kind of judgmental post wins a lot of people over - no substance, just ridicule. 
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RE: Hal Lindsey Report - 4/22/2009 2:12:53 PM
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Eutychus
Posts: 6339
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From: Dothan, AL
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quote:
ORIGINAL: eschatologist
...This is one of the things that helps us to stay close to the Lord...
Wow. Just wow. That's like telling your sweatheart that one of the things that makes you stay faithful to her is that she might catch you flirting with another woman.
Guys, I'm ready for Jesus to return today or to be struck by a Mac truck and be taken home to be with Him this afternoon. I have no loose ends, I love Him for who He is (God, Savior, Friend, Brother, Joint-Heir), and I no longer have to listen to men's headline-guessing to keep me afraid that He's going to catch me flirting with the enemy because that won't happen.
And if I live another 30 or 40 years without His return or my death, I won't be defending men doing what Lindsey and his kind continue doing to the delight of itching ears. The Bible has enough information without needing to rely on them to misinterpret it again and again.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Hal Lindsey Report - 4/22/2009 9:58:13 PM
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Peter_Gunn
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
I bet that kind of judgmental post wins a lot of people over - no substance, just ridicule.
Gee whiz...that's harsh. I sense a tad bit of anger there. I was just trying to convey a thought.
_____________________________
I desire to be strange to the world, so that I might be strong for Jesus.
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RE: Hal Lindsey Report - 4/22/2009 10:52:59 PM
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yzf-r1
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Hal Lindsey is a true man of God in my opinion, even though I don't agree with everything he says (and I still say he's too one dimensional with prophecy), especially the stuff about demon armies of Revelation really being apache attack helicopters, etc.
JVI is a pitch man, I don't pay much attention to him, nor do I find any of his rehashed material at all insightful, plus the constant cheesy video production/sales is a major turn off.
Hal really analyzes what's going on in the world, and that's good! In his latest program, he stated that the following four signs are now being fulfilled, which he's been looking for over the past several decades:
1. the uniting of European countries from the people and culture of the fallen Roman Empire
2. the decline and fall of the United States as an independent, sovereign world power
3. the uniting of all world economies under a central control
4. the movement to a one world government over all people and nations
Pretty hard to argue with any of that, and mirrors my own observations over the last several years. Clearly, things are moving quickly.
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RE: Hal Lindsey Report - 4/22/2009 11:49:35 PM
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Matthew-59
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I'd like to make one thing very clear, because it seems I'm being falsely accused...
I do NOT follow Hal Lindsey, Jack Van Impe, John Hagee, or any others like them. I do listen to their teaching and weigh it in with what I see in the bible, and according to what's being seen in national and world events. I evaluate all that is said and seen according to the understanding God has given me from His Word... and His Word alone. I only follow one person, and that is the person of the Lord Jesus Christ who became flesh and dwelt among men some 2,000 years ago. He and He alone is The Way, The Truth, and The Life. He will be coming back soon, and I will follow Him only.
I am not a prophet because I interpret events according to bible prophecy. I am simply a man who pays attention to what the bible says and where I see this world is going. That doesn't make me a prophet, nor do I proclaim to be one.
Have I made my point clear enough?? I believe I have.
_____________________________
Matthew
5:9
"Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God."
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