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RE: Hal Lindsey Report - 4/23/2009 1:23:56 PM
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harris43
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
quote:
ORIGINAL: lexi_09
All I can say is  I know many here do not care for Hal Lindsey. But I sense urgency in his words.
You should have read the urgency in his words in the 1960s when I used to hang on his every word. I can no longer stomach his "headline-prophecy" meant to keep people staring at the heavens and waiting for his latest, greatest pronouncements while the Great Commision and discipleship goes wanting...
AMEN! People wait around for a 'rapture' instead of growing the kingdom.
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RE: Hal Lindsey Report - 4/23/2009 4:01:10 PM
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Matthew-59
Posts: 2703
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quote:
ORIGINAL: harris43
quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
quote:
ORIGINAL: lexi_09
All I can say is I know many here do not care for Hal Lindsey. But I sense urgency in his words.
You should have read the urgency in his words in the 1960s when I used to hang on his every word. I can no longer stomach his "headline-prophecy" meant to keep people staring at the heavens and waiting for his latest, greatest pronouncements while the Great Commission and discipleship goes wanting...
AMEN! People wait around for a 'rapture' instead of growing the kingdom.
Why can't both be done?? Hmmm??? Who says that those of us who are eagerly awaiting the rapture are forgetting about the Great Commission and discipleship, or growing the Kingdom of God?? Are we the only ones responsible if the Kingdom of God doesn't grow? No, we aren't. A lot of Christians sit back and do nothing to advance the Kingdom, no matter what their particular stance is on the rapture. While I do agree that we need to step up the pace on growing the Kingdom, I also believe we all as Christians are responsible for it, and feel that those tasks can all be done in conjunction with waiting for the rapture and the second coming of Christ. Why can't we be multi-taskers?? I know I can be.
_____________________________
Matthew 5:9
"Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God."
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RE: Hal Lindsey Report - 4/23/2009 4:11:28 PM
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Peter_Gunn
Posts: 935
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Matthew-59
Why can't both be done?? Hmmm??? Who says that those of us who are eagerly awaiting the rapture are forgetting about the Great Commission and discipleship, or growing the Kingdom of God?? Are we the only ones responsible if the Kingdom of God doesn't grow? No, we aren't. A lot of Christians sit back and do nothing to advance the Kingdom, no matter what their particular stance is on the rapture. While I do agree that we need to step up the pace on growing the Kingdom, I also believe we all as Christians are responsible for it, and feel that those tasks can all be done in conjunction with waiting for the rapture and the second coming of Christ. Why can't we be multi-taskers?? I know I can be.
Bravo, Matthew! Well said! 
_____________________________
I desire to be strange to the world, so that I might be strong for Jesus.
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RE: Hal Lindsey Report - 4/23/2009 4:25:03 PM
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Matthew-59
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Here's another good thought....
Just think of how many people have been saved through the ministries of such people like Hal Lindsey, Jack Van Impe, John Hagee, etc, etc, throughout the years. I know of one in particular... yes... me. If only one person is saved through their ministry, then it's worth it. I know there has been way more than one. That's a very safe bet.
So, now.... I wonder how many people have we as individuals won for the Lord to grow the Kingdom of God??? Is it any comparison to these ministers mentioned?? I doubt it.
I guess if you've won more people to the Lord than the one you put down, then you might have a leg to stand on at criticizing them. If you haven't, then.....
-------
Well... Just some good food for thought here.
_____________________________
Matthew 5:9
"Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God."
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RE: Hal Lindsey Report - 4/23/2009 4:33:36 PM
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Eutychus
Posts: 6196
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From: Dothan, AL
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Matthew, on a practical level, I've seen this scenario play out dozens of times:
Pastor announces a End Time series. Time or day doesn't matter. The place will be packed to the rafters with not just the regulars but people that rarely come to church except for Easter and Christmas. People will bring paper, pencils, and recording devices.
Pastor announces an evangelism series. Time or day doesn't matter. You couldn't fill up a room much larger than the broom closet.
If the pastor announces that the evangelism series will include actually going out and sharing your faith, the result will be a room where the sounds of crickets, creaking floors, and, perhaps, the breathing of the other person in the room with the pastor.
I'm not overly exaggerating.
And that scenario, as much as anything else I've witnessed, even more than constant predictions of Jesus returning in the next 3-5 years for sure this time, caused me to become less enthusiastic about a constant obsession with end times.
Can I get an Amen or a Bravo?
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RE: Hal Lindsey Report - 4/23/2009 4:47:20 PM
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Eutychus
Posts: 6196
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From: Dothan, AL
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Matthew-59
I guess if you've won more people to the Lord than the one you put down, then you might have a leg to stand on at criticizing them. If you haven't, then.....
The first forum I ever joined was tribforcehq.com, that was based around the Left Behind series. I only joined to address a bully in a topic on perseverance of the saints. Later, I became a moderator, then staff member, and, finally, a member of the Board of Directors. I began reading the Left Behind series just to be able to discuss it intelligently.
I said all that to say this, one of the recurring type of new member was teenagers that would not come to Christ in anticipation of being left behind so they could get saved after the rapture and become a member of a real Tribulation Force. It was difficult to get them to accept that Jesus might not come in the next couple of years and they could die in their sin.
You have no idea how many hours I have struggled with people with that kind of mentality, sometime with success, sometime not.
Those were the direct result of LaHaye's books.
I have been used of God to lead a number of people to the Lord, one of them a Jehovah's Witness. And theories on end times was not involved in any of them coming to the Lord. None.
The time or method of the Lord's return is not the Gospel. Who Jesus is and what He accomplished and the grace of God is what the Gospel is about.
Can I get an Amen or a Bravo?
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RE: Hal Lindsey Report - 4/23/2009 5:31:43 PM
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cow451
Posts: 3754
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
quote:
ORIGINAL: Matthew-59
I guess if you've won more people to the Lord than the one you put down, then you might have a leg to stand on at criticizing them. If you haven't, then.....
The first forum I ever joined was tribforcehq.com, that was based around the Left Behind series. I only joined to address a bully in a topic on perseverance of the saints. Later, I became a moderator, then staff member, and, finally, a member of the Board of Directors. I began reading the Left Behind series just to be able to discuss it intelligently.
I said all that to say this, one of the recurring type of new member was teenagers that would not come to Christ in anticipation of being left behind so they could get saved after the rapture and become a member of a real Tribulation Force. It was difficult to get them to accept that Jesus might not come in the next couple of years and they could die in their sin.
You have no idea how many hours I have struggled with people with that kind of mentality, sometime with success, sometime not.
Those were the direct result of LaHaye's books.
I have been used of God to lead a number of people to the Lord, one of them a Jehovah's Witness. And theories on end times was not involved in any of them coming to the Lord. None.
The time or method of the Lord's return is not the Gospel. Who Jesus is and what He accomplished and the grace of God is what the Gospel is about.
Can I get an Amen or a Bravo?
Tell it brother!
_____________________________
"They're our next door neighbors and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska, from an island in Alaska." --Sarah Palin.
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RE: Hal Lindsey Report - 4/23/2009 9:20:25 PM
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bettymackII
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There's a pretrib rapture dispensational site that has some little known facts about Lindsey that should be of interest to everyone. It is Biblical Discernment Ministries. True, many have obviously been pointed to Christ because of Lindsey's many books, but we should also remember that the Lord has set forth mandatory qualifications for church leaders in I Tim. 3 and that in the last days MANY will fall away from the faith, as the Word says. If the Lord weren't concerned about His leaders and all that mattered would be great numbers of persons won to Christ in the fastest possible time, He could have ordered demons to carry the Gospel everywhere - and conceivably they can travel at the speed of light! But no - He wants His pure Gospel carried in pure vessels! If you are curious about the facts on Hal that the above site has, Google "Hal Lindsey (General Teachings/Activities)."
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RE: Hal Lindsey Report - 4/23/2009 9:42:54 PM
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bettymackII
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Since some have charged Lindsey with date-setting, date-setting as I see it isn't confined to just individual days. It can also refer to longer periods of time, especially if those periods have limits. Although the Lord said that we aren't to know the "times and the seasons," some have seemingly tried to prove Him wrong. Hal had a book titled "The 1980s: Countdown to Armageddon" and in another work (one of his convenient updated versions) he called it "The 1990s: Prophecy on Fast Forward." Has anyone noticed that we're now way past the last two decades of the last century? In the OT false prophets could be stoned to death; nowadays they are more likely to just be stoned! Am wondering how bad world events will have to get before Hal admits that we might go through a little bit of the tribulation. Even Jim Bakker, who used to promote pretrib, now believes that the church will go through at least half of the tribulation - and many others have been changing in the same way. For info on Jim, Google "Is Jim Bakker a pretrib?" Re Hal again, in one of his books he refers to the writings of a posttrib scholar as a "snow job." Readers can form their own opinion of Hal's harsh words. Many are convinced that world events will soon have a way of revising certain rapture charts!
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RE: Hal Lindsey Report - 4/23/2009 11:35:50 PM
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yzf-r1
Posts: 572
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quote:
ORIGINAL: yzf-r1
Hal really analyzes what's going on in the world, and that's good! In his latest program, he stated that the following four signs are now being fulfilled, which he's been looking for over the past several decades:
1. the uniting of European countries from the people and culture of the fallen Roman Empire
2. the decline and fall of the United States as an independent, sovereign world power
3. the uniting of all world economies under a central control
4. the movement to a one world government over all people and nations
Pretty hard to argue with any of that, and mirrors my own observations over the last several years. Clearly, things are moving quickly.
Aside from random Hal bashing, does anyone have a comment on this?
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RE: Hal Lindsey Report - 4/24/2009 12:02:52 AM
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bob97
Posts: 2279
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
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Wow yzf-r1...you won't catch me setting any dates...I don't want to be a false prophet. That being said, yes I think we are walking in the last days. Never before have we seen the coming together of the secular world towards a one world government like we have today. And.....never before have we seen the real beginning of a one world church such as we are seeing now. Fundamentalism is on the edge of being declared terrorism and the AoC has been granted authority deal with those who will not change.
People can say poppycock we've been here before but not like this. This really looks like the read deal to me.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Hal Lindsey Report - 4/24/2009 12:21:00 AM
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yzf-r1
Posts: 572
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thank you brother Bob
as well as the fact the Jews have been regathered to the Land "after many days" (some 1900 years), they reportedly have plans to rebuild the Temple, are are living with "walls and gates in bars" "in the center of the Land"
indeed....the real deal
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RE: Hal Lindsey Report - 4/24/2009 8:09:08 AM
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Eutychus
Posts: 6196
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dothan, AL
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: yzf-r1
quote:
ORIGINAL: yzf-r1
Hal really analyzes what's going on in the world, and that's good! In his latest program, he stated that the following four signs are now being fulfilled, which he's been looking for over the past several decades:
1. the uniting of European countries from the people and culture of the fallen Roman Empire
2. the decline and fall of the United States as an independent, sovereign world power
3. the uniting of all world economies under a central control
4. the movement to a one world government over all people and nations
Pretty hard to argue with any of that, and mirrors my own observations over the last several years. Clearly, things are moving quickly.
Aside from random Hal bashing, does anyone have a comment on this?
Sure, he was saying all that in the 60s & 70s. The problem has been his repeatedly telling people that the end will happen absolutely no later than the early 70s, uhhh the mid 70s, uhhh the late 70s, uhhh the early 80s... 2012....
Why do you insist on calling it Hal bashing for pointing out his deceit and false alarmism. Have you ever heard of the boy that cried wolf? If Hal ever gets it right, only the ones willing to accept his 100 or so other false alarms will even care.
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RE: Hal Lindsey Report - 4/24/2009 11:23:57 AM
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bettymackII
Posts: 1537
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Eutychus = Bravo!! and Amen!!
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RE: Hal Lindsey Report - 4/24/2009 12:15:53 PM
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Matthew-59
Posts: 2703
Joined: 1/7/2009
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2 Timothy 3:1-5
"But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!"
I sure have seen a lot of slander against Hal Lindsey here. That can't be denied. I guess from such I must turn away. And so I will.... because Hal is a brother in Christ Jesus, and I will not slander my brother, nor will I listen to or read such nonsense.
BTW: Hal Lindsey will be on TBN tonight (Friday) at 7:30pm central time. I'm sure everyone here will be watching. I know I will.
_____________________________
Matthew 5:9
"Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God."
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RE: Hal Lindsey Report - 4/24/2009 5:10:47 PM
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Retrobyter
Posts: 773
Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Florida
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Shabbat shalom, Eutychus.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
quote:
ORIGINAL: Matthew-59
I sure have seen a lot of slander against Hal Lindsey here. That can't be denied. I guess from such I must turn away. And so I will.... because Hal is a brother in Christ Jesus, and I will not slander my brother, nor will I listen to or read such nonsense.
That's sweet, quoting scripture that would seem to protect a person that tells lies or, at best, takes great liberty with the truth. But the fact is, it's not slander if it's the truth. And "haughty" describes a person that will not listen to the truth about a failed predictor of events (i.e. a false prophet) just because he tickles their ears - too proud to look closely at the man's trach record.
You might have been in kindergarten when I first began believing in the greatness of Mr. Lindsey. So it's not like I've just been sitting on the sidelines sniping at someone I haven't followed for a very long time.
But he do sound authoritative, and dat's what counts, right?
quote:
BTW: Hal Lindsey will be on TBN tonight (Friday) at 7:30pm central time. I'm sure everyone here will be watching. I know I will.
I finally blocked TBN on my TV because of the large and continuous number of outright heretics on that station.
Y'know, "heresy" must be teachings against "orthodoxy." How do you define "heresy?" What do you consider the "orthodoxy" against which Hal Lindsey's teachings must be considered "heresy?" Honestly looking forward to your answers.
Roy
_____________________________
Stick to the Scriptures! The minute you start to draw an analogy or explain what a Scripture means or give a particular view of theology, you've left the safety of Absolute Truth, and you're on your own!
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RE: Hal Lindsey Report - 4/24/2009 5:46:34 PM
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Eutychus
Posts: 6196
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Retrobyter
Y'know, "heresy" must be teachings against "orthodoxy." How do you define "heresy?"
Joel Osteen, Benny Hinn, Paul Crouch & Jan Crouch, Kenneth Copeland, Creflo Dollar, John Hagee, to name a few. That enough for you?
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RE: Hal Lindsey Report - 4/24/2009 6:57:37 PM
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Retrobyter
Posts: 773
Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Florida
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Shabbat shalom, Eutychus.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
quote:
ORIGINAL: Retrobyter
Y'know, "heresy" must be teachings against "orthodoxy." How do you define "heresy?"
Joel Osteen, Benny Hinn, Paul Crouch & Jan Crouch, Kenneth Copeland, Creflo Dollar, John Hagee, to name a few. That enough for you?
No, sorry, but that is NOT "enough" for me. I was being serious. One does not define a word by citing ambiguous examples. No, what is your understanding of the definition of "heresy?"
Roy
_____________________________
Stick to the Scriptures! The minute you start to draw an analogy or explain what a Scripture means or give a particular view of theology, you've left the safety of Absolute Truth, and you're on your own!
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RE: Hal Lindsey Report - 4/25/2009 2:27:33 PM
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yzf-r1
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
Sure, he was saying all that in the 60s & 70s. The problem has been his repeatedly telling people that the end will happen absolutely no later than the early 70s
I never heard Hal set dates, he just believed it could happen any time. Nothing wrong with that, in fact, we are to live with that expectation. On the flip side, you seem a bit jaded about this. Hal is no Joel Osteen, not even close.
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RE: Hal Lindsey Report - 4/25/2009 3:33:41 PM
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navyblueret
Posts: 1957
Joined: 11/29/2008
From: S/W Nebraska
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
Wow yzf-r1...you won't catch me setting any dates...I don't want to be a false prophet. That being said, yes I think we are walking in the last days. Never before have we seen the coming together of the secular world towards a one world government like we have today. And.....never before have we seen the real beginning of a one world church such as we are seeing now. Fundamentalism is on the edge of being declared terrorism and the AoC has been granted authority deal with those who will not change.
People can say poppycock we've been here before but not like this. This really looks like the read deal to me.
Bob
Shalom, Bob.
I reference what I marked, in red, above, and must ask a question about what qualifies a person as a False Prophet.
I may have it wrong, but I have always been taught, and believed, a false prophet is a person who teaches, or warns, or promotes wrongly and justifies those teachings with: 'Thus sayeth the Lord.'
My question is: What qualifies the status of 'False Prophet,' in your understanding? Ooops, part-B: What is the difference between being a false prophet, and stating one's projective opinion about future events, and how the events seem to be coming to fruition?
For what it is worth, I see quite a few people studying God's word, and prophecy, with projections differing with each other. IMO, no one is going to be completely right, but someone is going to be close, and others way off. No matter how right or wrong the opinion, at least every one is studying, thinking, and espousing their conclusions.
Sadly, some seem to think that they are so right, they have the right to ridicule, and nay-say against those who have deducted contrary to the persons own philosophy. To say that an opinion is gained through 'study,' and anyone not agreeing doesn't study, or believe, or whatever, is a sad state of affairs, for a Christian, especially when attacking another Christian.
I didn't start to attack anyone, only to ask a qualifying type question. Sorry. I close with this request: Fellow Christians, please put the 'high-horse' to bed, and discuss, ponder, accept/or/reject the offering. Snide innuendo, tends to make us farther from agreement, than closer.
In Messiah, His Shalom, and consideration. Arley
_____________________________
In the name of 'THE' Mashiach, Man the wall, set the watch, sound the Shofar. Our redemption draws nigh.
Messiah, my Captain, and Helmsman.
(Joh 14:6 KJV) ... I am the way, the truth, and the life: ...
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RE: Hal Lindsey Report - 4/25/2009 3:47:26 PM
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bob97
Posts: 2279
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
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quote:
I reference what I marked, in red, above, and must ask a question about what qualifies a person as a False Prophet.
Arley...I think a false prophet is someone who makes a claim (generally revealed of God) which does not occur and for this reason people like Hal are declared false because they are date setting.
Now if a person does not claim to present a message revealed by God but are only attempting to give their understand of prophecy...I wouldn't call them false prophets and I don't think you would either.
I read many who, based on their understanding set dates and as a matter of course pay little attention to those dates. I do pay attention of the facts that would lead them to set a date and if the facts are strong enough would take note of the date but I wouldn't sell the farm based on those dates.
How can we call someone false unless he claims to have a vision sent by God? If is not sent by God then it is only an opinion...isn't it?
So of course I was poking a little fun.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Hal Lindsey Report - 4/25/2009 4:00:16 PM
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Matthew-59
Posts: 2703
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quote:
ORIGINAL: navyblueret
I may have it wrong, but I have always been taught, and believed, a false prophet is a person who teaches, or warns, or promotes wrongly and justifies those teachings with: 'Thus sayeth the Lord.'
My question is: What qualifies the status of 'False Prophet,' in your understanding? Ooops, part-B: What is the difference between being a false prophet, and stating one's projective opinion about future events, and how the events seem to be coming to fruition?
For what it is worth, I see quite a few people studying God's word, and prophecy, with projections differing with each other. IMO, no one is going to be completely right, but someone is going to be close, and others way off. No matter how right or wrong the opinion, at least every one is studying, thinking, and espousing their conclusions.
Sadly, some seem to think that they are so right, they have the right to ridicule, and nay-say against those who have deducted contrary to the persons own philosophy. To say that an opinion is gained through 'study,' and anyone not agreeing doesn't study, or believe, or whatever, is a sad state of affairs, for a Christian, especially when attacking another Christian.
I didn't start to attack anyone, only to ask a qualifying type question. Sorry. I close with this request: Fellow Christians, please put the 'high-horse' to bed, and discuss, ponder, accept/or/reject the offering. Snide innuendo, tends to make us farther from agreement, than closer.
In Messiah, His Shalom, and consideration. Arley
Amen!! I agree completely, and especially with the part above which I made bold.
Excellent post Arley! Something we all should remember and adhere to. I believe that would make God smile... rather than all the bickering and belittling going on, which I'm sure makes Him sad to see such things amongst His own... or against anyone really. One does not attract a bear with vinegar. Honey works better. If you get my drift.
_____________________________
Matthew 5:9
"Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God."
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RE: Hal Lindsey Report - 4/25/2009 4:42:20 PM
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navyblueret
Posts: 1957
Joined: 11/29/2008
From: S/W Nebraska
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Mat59, Shalom, and thanks for the kind words. May we all respect the other persons opinions.
Hey, Bob, OK, you and I see very much the same. My daughter, and her husband got caught up with a Church Prophet type back in 87 or 88, who was preaching that his following should give away everything they owned, as they were going to be raptured, 'Thus Sayeth God,' on a specific day. They did, they weren't, I helped them recover. I should dislike that type of prophet, but can only feel sorry for those mis-led.
You reference the projection, if it is thought as being 'From God,' may be 'False-Prophesying.' IMO, myself the example target: When I say I believe a probable day, it had better be based upon my studies of the Bible, and related, contributing, signs, or I am a charlatan, and worthy of contempt. You know that I believe that if there is going to be a pre-trib rapture, it will be this coming Yom Teruah's blowing of the last trump of the day. This is based upon many factors, mostly Biblical, from a number of teachings, and eclipses, and so on. I project, now and have said, there is a good probability. From that, a few have communicated some contempt for being a 'Date Setter,' as if I suddenly have leprosy, or am a reincarnation of Typhoid Mary. That is sad, IMO.
All of that, to say this: I was beginning to fear that the old adage about 'there is no one more hostile of, or unforgiving, than an "Ex": Alcoholic, Prostitute, Smoker, or, obese, may have another name to add to this list, and that being: 'Biblical Pre-Tribulation Rapturist Thinker.
The date that I am thinking may be right, is close enough that you healthy types can probably hold your breath, to prove me right or wrong. Ha. Right, or wrong, I am still a winner, even though my ride is delayed a bit. I know it is coming fairly soon.
In Messiah, His chronology. Arley
PS: If I am wrong, I want everyone to go to the door, at High-noon, the next day, and give off the loudest Bronx Raspberry your tongue can stand, and I will be duly 'castigated.' (that is an 'ig,' not an 'er.')//as//
_____________________________
In the name of 'THE' Mashiach, Man the wall, set the watch, sound the Shofar. Our redemption draws nigh.
Messiah, my Captain, and Helmsman.
(Joh 14:6 KJV) ... I am the way, the truth, and the life: ...
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