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RE: Listening to "secular" music? - 6/30/2009 8:01:22 AM
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mapachito13
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WillingSpirit
Jimmy Swaggart did an instrumental version of "White Christmas" in the 70's, which is a totally secular Christmas carol.
So Jimmy, "I consort with prostitutes" Swaggert, a avowed fornicator and adulterer, is a good example of a Christian? I never strived to be his sort of Christian even before the prostitution issue.
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"Freedom comes with an educated mind." - Jacqueline Rushing
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RE: Listening to "secular" music? - 6/30/2009 2:04:13 PM
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rawr.ben
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
quote:
ORIGINAL: WillingSpirit
Jimmy Swaggart did an instrumental version of "White Christmas" in the 70's, which is a totally secular Christmas carol.
So Jimmy, "I consort with prostitutes" Swaggert, a avowed fornicator and adulterer, is a good example of a Christian? I never strived to be his sort of Christian even before the prostitution issue.
Okay, okay, but how about Shawn McDonald singing "Over the Rainbow?" That heathen!
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RE: Listening to "secular" music? - 6/30/2009 11:28:39 PM
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BlindLemon5103
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quote:
But I'll put it to you this way, if you wouldn't sit there and listen to certain types of music while Jesus was there, then you probably shouldn't be listening to it at all.
This should be amended to read "certain songs", not "certain types" of music. There is wheat to be found amongst the chaff. I have the freedom to pick and choose. If 75% of a band's output is unlistenable, lyrically speaking, but I like their sound...then I guess I'll listen to the other 25%. It's that simple for me.
And is it just possible that a person can be attracted to the sound, the actual music making while not necessarily agreeing with the lyrical content? Is that even possible? Songs can be descriptive without being prescriptive.
Finally, I agree with everyone here that the term "secular" is too broad. Let's cut to the chase: whenever I hear "secular", it almost always means rock / pop / rap with obviously sinful lyrics. We need to be clear, so that while throwing out the L'il Waynes of the world we don't throw out the Blind Lemon Jeffersons as well. I am a passionate defender of the blues as others may already know...but this could apply to any kind of music.
I've been down this road before...I'm at the point where I'm not that worried about it ("secular" music)...I'm far more concerned with how much time I spend entertaining myself rather than on what I am listening to. Not that I don't use discernment, it's just there are bigger things in life to attend to.
Anyway, I'm done. Let the debate continue...it won't be settled this side of heaven.
Blessings, Blind Lemon
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RE: Listening to "secular" music? - 7/1/2009 10:54:38 AM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2593
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quote:
ORIGINAL: BlindLemon5103
Anyway, I'm done. Let the debate continue...it won't be settled this side of heaven.
Blessings, Blind Lemon
Amen! My friend! It's no wonder we all haven't gone blind reading 20 pages of this merry-go-round thread. I'm going to start going to my "secular thread anonymous" meetings again!
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"Freedom comes with an educated mind." - Jacqueline Rushing
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RE: Listening to "secular" music? - 7/1/2009 11:29:58 AM
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let_your_light_shine
Posts: 65
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
quote:
ORIGINAL: let_your_light_shine
I'm sorry if you feel it's judgemental, but God himself says that.
I'm sorry. I didn't realize Jesus just registered on this site. My bad! 
I am not in any way saying I'm Jesus. You are misinterpreting everything I say to suit your own cause. I am not perfect, we're all fallen from grace.
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RE: Listening to "secular" music? - 7/1/2009 11:39:38 AM
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let_your_light_shine
Posts: 65
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quote:
ORIGINAL: saraimay75
quote:
ORIGINAL: let_your_light_shine
quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
quote:
ORIGINAL: let_your_light_shine
And no one said anything about being a "better" Christian. Each person is at a different spot at their walk with God. But I'll put it to you this way, if you wouldn't sit there and listen to certain types of music while Jesus was there, then you probably shouldn't be listening to it at all. Same goes for for movies, books, tv.
If you are purposely sinning, then how can God forgive that?
Gee, this doesn't seem judgmental to me at all!!  
I'm sorry if you feel it's judgemental, but God himself says that.
Where?
Galatians 5:13 For you have been called to live in freedom, my brothers and sisters. But don't use your freedom to staisfy your sinful nature.
Romas 7:5 When we were controlled by our old nature, sinful desires were at work within us, and the law aroused these evil desires that produced a harvest of sinful deeds, RESULTING IN DEATH.
Romans 9:11 talks about God rejecting someone because they sinned.
That was to answer your where question. People sin, but they are called to turn from sin. That said, I am not condemning anyone for life choices. I was simply giving my opinion.
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RE: Listening to "secular" music? - 7/1/2009 11:42:58 AM
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let_your_light_shine
Posts: 65
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
quote:
ORIGINAL: let_your_light_shine
I'm sorry if you feel it's judgemental, but God himself says that.
I'm sorry. I didn't realize Jesus just registered on this site. My bad!
And I'm not saying you have to listen to my opinions. I am convicted not to listen to secular music, if you're not, go ahead. I am sorry if I seemed judgemental. I was just trying to give a sincere answer.
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RE: Listening to "secular" music? - 7/1/2009 11:45:24 AM
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let_your_light_shine
Posts: 65
Joined: 6/28/2009
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quote:
ORIGINAL: let_your_light_shine
quote:
ORIGINAL: saraimay75
quote:
ORIGINAL: let_your_light_shine
quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
quote:
ORIGINAL: let_your_light_shine
And no one said anything about being a "better" Christian. Each person is at a different spot at their walk with God. But I'll put it to you this way, if you wouldn't sit there and listen to certain types of music while Jesus was there, then you probably shouldn't be listening to it at all. Same goes for for movies, books, tv.
If you are purposely sinning, then how can God forgive that?
Gee, this doesn't seem judgmental to me at all!!
I'm sorry if you feel it's judgemental, but God himself says that.
Where?
Galatians 5:13 For you have been called to live in freedom, my brothers and sisters. But don't use your freedom to staisfy your sinful nature.
Romas 7:5 When we were controlled by our old nature, sinful desires were at work within us, and the law aroused these evil desires that produced a harvest of sinful deeds, RESULTING IN DEATH.
Romans 9:11 talks about God rejecting someone because they sinned.
That was to answer your where question. People sin, but they are called to turn from sin. That said, I am not condemning anyone for life choices. I was simply giving my opinion.
Oh and btw, I am not saying you view sin the way I do. If you don't think listening to secular music is sinful then this doesn't apply. But I go with the theory "garbage in, garbage out" and it is that much harder for me to live a Christian lifestyle when listening to music about sex, drugs, cursing, whatever.
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RE: Listening to "secular" music? - 7/1/2009 4:08:20 PM
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uncabeeil
Posts: 4932
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Joisey. Got a problem wit dat?
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It's like the old SNL skit, The Thing That Wouldn't Leave.
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"It don't do to fight with God cuz He always wins.
He bloodies your nose and then gives you a ride home on his bike"
Rich Mullins
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RE: Listening to "secular" music? - 7/1/2009 4:13:51 PM
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Tinkerbell_
Posts: 8033
Joined: 1/25/2008
From: NeverNeverLand
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quote:
ORIGINAL: uncabeeil
It's like the old SNL skit, The Thing That Wouldn't Leave.
That one doesn't ring a bell...must have been before my time.
*runs*
_____________________________
When I've shown you that I just don't care
When I'm throwing punches in the air
When I'm broken down and I can't stand
Will you be strong enough to be my man?
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RE: Listening to "secular" music? - 7/1/2009 5:01:50 PM
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WillingSpirit
Posts: 110
Joined: 5/18/2009
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
quote:
ORIGINAL: WillingSpirit
Jimmy Swaggart did an instrumental version of "White Christmas" in the 70's, which is a totally secular Christmas carol.
So Jimmy, "I consort with prostitutes" Swaggert, a avowed fornicator and adulterer, is a good example of a Christian? I never strived to be his sort of Christian even before the prostitution issue.
Your kind of missing the point of my Swaggart comment.The reason I mentioned him is he's an example of a southern gospel artist who has done a secular song.This was long before the whole prostitute thing and is irrelevent to my comments.I suppose another reason I mentioned it is because he has been known to attack other Christian musicians for doing secular songs and has done one himself, so I find it interesting that it would come from even him.I am by no means a Swaggart fan and don't like his music, though I used to hear him alot around the house through my dad.
I also mentioned The Gaithers for doing some secular Christmas carols.So far they havn't fallen into some big scandelous sin (to my knowlege) but their not immune to the possibility of doing so in the future.Non of us are.King David who wrote alot of the Psalms commited both adultry and murder, yet who can deny that his music was Godly?
< Message edited by WillingSpirit -- 7/1/2009 7:43:48 PM >
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RE: Listening to "secular" music? - 7/1/2009 5:18:17 PM
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WillingSpirit
Posts: 110
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quote:
ORIGINAL: BlindLemon5103
quote:
But I'll put it to you this way, if you wouldn't sit there and listen to certain types of music while Jesus was there, then you probably shouldn't be listening to it at all.
This should be amended to read "certain songs", not "certain types" of music. There is wheat to be found amongst the chaff. I have the freedom to pick and choose. If 75% of a band's output is unlistenable, lyrically speaking, but I like their sound...then I guess I'll listen to the other 25%. It's that simple for me.
That's my same approach.I have an Arcade Fire and Viva Voce cd at home that has some disagreeable lyrics for me, but most of their songs are perfectly fine so I simply use the skip feature.
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RE: Listening to "secular" music? - 7/1/2009 7:30:57 PM
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WillingSpirit
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quote:
ORIGINAL: freakofnature
quote:
One of the earlier posters thought it was extreme for people to bring up background music in movies, but it's actually not extreme at all.If we define secular music as any music that doesn't have a God/spiritual focus or any music by non-Christian artists (which is how many people use the term), than this does include instrumental music.It would include the instrumental music in most movies, the theme song for Little House On the Prairie, lots of instrumental jazz, ragtime, ambient & classical, plus alot of instrumental rock or post-rock acts like Dick Dale, The Shadows, Explosions In the Sky, etc.Should all this instrumental music be condemned because there happens to be non-Christians performing it?
Whilst I agree with the premise of this statement, I think, from being in church my whole life and having to listen to several of the "secular music bad" preachers, it is in fact mainly the secular tunes with lyrical content that seem to be the biggest issue, I've never heard any of these preachers rail against the likes of Miles Davis or Bach, but against the likes of AC/DC, Iron Maiden et al, and I think the other problem seems to be the "imagery" of the secular bands with the use of demonic symbolism. Again, I don't recall Thelonious Monk or Beethoven using the pentagram to sell albums. So the question now evolves into "Listening to 'Secular' music with distasteful lyrical content" perhaps the subject matter in the OP just a bit too broad. NO?
They don't mention jazz that much because it's sord of not the music of our times (not the current popular form).But if you were to go back to the 1920's or 1930's, you would find many preachers railing against it.It didn't originate in the four walls of the church and had some ungodly associations, so they just condemned the whole thing without discernment.Old time Pentecostal prechers were even known to condemn the saxaphone as the "sexaphone" because they associated the instrument with jazz and jazz with sexually loose living.My own father (from a Pentecostal background) can remember a time when he mentioned the saxaphone to one of his old pastor's.He told his minister that they should use the saxaphone in church.His pastor was dead set against the idea.
If you go back even further to the early decades of the 1900's, the preachers were railing against ragtime.Today most Christians would perceive the music to be family friendly instrumental music from the old past (Not all ragtime was instrumental).But when it was the popular music of the time, many if not most Christians perceived the music to be worldly, secular and of the devil.It had some pretty bad associations such as prostitution houses and a good number of early ragtime players died of syphilis.Perhaps in the day of Bach, preachers railed against his music?
Since the 1950's the "secular music bad" preachers have focused their energy on rock or the lyrical secular rock you mentioned.Once again they rail against music without discernment, overlooking all the many secular rock songs with good lyrics.(Typicaly they have little or no knowlege of all the secular instrumental rock that is out there, which is one reason they won't bring that up).Concerning AC/DC and Iron Maiden, I've heard very little from AC/DC with good lyrics and I'm not super familiar with Iron Maiden.But I have checked out some Iron Maiden songs on the internet and read some lyrics, and actually found some songs with a good message or clean content.I think it was some songs off their newest album and perhaps some older cuts.AC/DC did a cover of Chuck Berry's "Johnny Be Goode".Assuming they didn't change the lyrics around, that would be atleast one song from them with clean words.
Along time ago I tried out a tape by secular metal group Testament.I don't think I ever got into their music that much, but one of the songs was a very positive anti-suicide song (a kind of secular rock song that the "secular music bad" preachers don't mention).
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RE: Listening to "secular" music? - 7/1/2009 8:07:13 PM
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freakofnature
Posts: 369
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quote:
They don't mention jazz that much because it's sord of not the music of our times
I'm quite aware of the history of "modern music" Willingspirit, and yes, my point is that the modern day criers of secular music are focusing on modern day music, why? Because that makes sense. which is exactly why I have suggested that the subject matter of this particular thread "Listening to 'secular' music" is way waaay to broad, and should be paired down to "Listening to 'secular' music with distasteful lyrical content" Because... really, isn't that and the "symbolism" of modern secular music what the whole outpouring of sentiment is really about?
The individuals bringing up these threads don't consider, IMHO, instrumental music or the likes of jazz and the like, I get the sense that they mean modern pop music with distasteful lyrics. Now as it were, to really get involved with an artist such as Thelonious Monk or Miles Davis and to understand the "instrumental" music, we need to be educated on the life of such artist and know where they come from. There has to be a renaissance in the Christian community towards actual music as art and what exactly it means. Maybe a "secular" song has distasteful lyrical content, however maybe that artist at the time the song was written was in a dark place in life at the time. Notwithstanding the likes of modern day pop hits from those like Fergie, (Black Eyed Peas), Gwen Stafani.. et al (name the pop artist) who are making "music" merely as ear candy and to sell records and keep their lives in the spotlight.
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RE: Listening to "secular" music? - 7/1/2009 8:09:49 PM
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BlindLemon5103
Posts: 65
Joined: 8/3/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
They don't mention jazz that much because it's sord of not the music of our times (not the current popular form).But if you were to go back to the 1920's or 1930's, you would find many preachers railing against it.It didn't originate in the four walls of the church and had some ungodly associations, so they just condemned the whole thing without discernment.Old time Pentecostal prechers were even known to condemn the saxaphone as the "sexaphone" because they associated the instrument with jazz and jazz with sexually loose living.My own father (from a Pentecostal background) can remember a time when he mentioned the saxaphone to one of his old pastor's.He told his minister that they should use the saxaphone in church.His pastor was dead set against the idea.
If you go back even further to the early decades of the 1900's, the preachers were railing against ragtime.Today most Christians would perceive the music to be family friendly instrumental music from the old past (Not all ragtime was instrumental).But when it was the popular music of the time, many if not most Christians perceived the music to be worldly, secular and of the devil.It had some pretty bad associations such as prostitution houses and a good number of early ragtime players died of syphilis.Perhaps in the day of Bach, preachers railed against his music?
Since the 1950's the "secular music bad" preachers have focused their energy on rock or the lyrical secular rock you mentioned.Once again they rail against music without discernment, overlooking all the many secular rock songs with good lyrics.(Typicaly they have little or no knowlege of all the secular instrumental rock that is out there, which is one reason they won't bring that up).Concerning AC/DC and Iron Maiden, I've heard very little from AC/DC with good lyrics and I'm not super familiar with Iron Maiden.But I have checked out some Iron Maiden songs on the internet and read some lyrics, and actually found some songs with a good message or clean content.I think it was some songs off their newest album and perhaps some older cuts.AC/DC did a cover of Chuck Berry's "Johnny Be Goode".Assuming they didn't change the lyrics around, that would be atleast one song from them with clean words.
Along time ago I tried out a tape by secular metal group Testament.I don't think I ever got into their music that much, but one of the songs was a very positive anti-suicide song (a kind of secular rock song that the "secular music bad" preachers don't mention).
Though I said I was done, I have to applaud this post! Excellent!
Regarding AC / DC, one of my favorite bands of my youth (pre-conversion), I find myself listening to the relatively small amount of tunes with decent lyrics (or at least halfway decent...all of their tunes have a "rough living" edge to them).
Most of "Powerage" has decent lyrics...I call this one the "thinking man's" AC/ DC album...I have no problem listening to it and enjoying it. After that, I have no problem with the following songs: "Jailbreak", "Soul Stripper", "Baby Please Don't Go", "Show Business", "It's A Long Way To The Top", "Ride On", "Rocker", "Ain't No Fun", "There's Gonna Be Some Rockin'", "Problem Child", "Let There Be Rock", "Dog Eat Dog", "Overdose"...etc. That said, there's a LOT of stuff I purposely avoid by these guys, which is a shame because musically, they are great tunes.
In fact, I put together a compilation of these tracks and titled it "The Somewhat Tasteful AC DC"....you'll note there is nothing from the Brian Johnson era. I've never been a big fan...his lyrics are even worse than Bon's...to me, anyway. The "H to H" album I find most conflicting...terrific musically, horrible lyrically, save for maybe three or four songs (and even those are suspect!)...
Anyway, a steady diet of these guys is probably not recommended. But I do own the albums, and pick and choose wisely whenever I need to hear a dose of their powerhouse sound and the fabulous guitar of Angus Young.
Not done yet,
Blind Lemon
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RE: Listening to "secular" music? - 7/1/2009 8:14:39 PM
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BlindLemon5103
Posts: 65
Joined: 8/3/2007
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I did have a thread called "Thoughts On AC /DC", lots of well-thought out responses.
If the music wasn't so catchy, it would be easy to avoid. Maybe therein lies the deception. That said, there are better items in their catalog to choose from, and you don't need a whole lot to get by. After all, they've been accused of making the same album 15 times!
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RE: Listening to "secular" music? - 7/1/2009 10:16:16 PM
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WillingSpirit
Posts: 110
Joined: 5/18/2009
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quote:
ORIGINAL: BlindLemon5103
Though I said I was done, I have to applaud this post! Excellent!
Thanks!
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