quote:

One thing (of many) that bothers me, is that, why is Mr. Camping the ONLY one of the major Christian radio/TV voices out there who sees and promotes this revelation. You would think, with all of the theologins out there, that others would be on to it too. But nothing.

• In Matthew 24:36, Jesus clearly teaches that nobody knows the day or hour when the end will come. We may discern the signs of his coming (24:4-14, 37-39) but we cannot know the exact date. Camping is openly disobeying our Lord in his date-setting, but he goes forward with it anyway and recalculates his math when it fails to pass, like back in 1994.
  
• I am only 39 years old, but I've already seen this date-setting of the world's end three times already. When I was in high school, an evangelical teacher taught "88 Reasons Why Jesus Will Return in 1988" (nothing happened). Doomsday scenarios abounded again around 2000 concerning the Y2K bug (again, nothing happened). It's happening again surrounding 2012 because the Aztec calendar supposedly ends that year and the new "2012" movie plays up to that fear. It seems to happen every 12 years, and should the Lord tarry, I'm sure it'll happen again in 2024 and 2036.
  
• Harold Camping's own theology is false and heretical through and through. His doctrine is completely based on numerology, jumping around unrelated Bible verses to justify his beliefs, and his own prejudice against the organized church. For example, he now teaches that hell does not exist, basing it on his false interpretation of "the second death" in Revelation 14:20 as annihilation (ceasing to exist), and he tosses out hell as a false "Church Age" teaching. But Revelation 14:10 and Luke 16:19-31 (the parable of the rich man and Lazarus) refute that claim.
  

• You wrote that you don't like the rock-sounding "fake" praise music found on Christian radio nowadays. That indicates a preference for a particular type of Christian music on your part; I've heard old hymns like "A Mighty Fortress is Our God" arranged for rock, acapella, African chant and even Hawaiian music, and it all brings glory to our Lord. God doesn't like only traditional classical music. The many music styles of the world's peoples reflect the diversity of His creation and the manifold gratitude for His grace.
  
• Camping seems able to rely only on the Bible to support his teachings, but so do cults like the Jehovah's Witnesses, the Unification Church, and followers of Herbert W. Armstrong. He cannot or will not read Scripture plainly; he must rely on jumping scattershot all over the Bible and pulling selected verses out of context to come to his bizarre conclusions, justifying it as "Scripture interpreting Scripture". If not especially for his numerology and applying "spiritual meaning" or a "picture" to a verse, his teachings fall apart.
  
• Camping's soft baritone voice is comforting and charismatic, like a kind grandfather. That alone lets down one's guard. He rightly complains about what's wrong in the church and our culture (same-sex marriage, liberal pastors, the family breakdown etc.), which conservative Christians are also concerned about. But once that connection is made, Camping then declares it symptoms of the end of the Church Age and he goes into his false "depart out" teaching.
  

• Evaluation of Harold Camping by the Christian Research Institute
  
• Redeemer Broadcasting: a regional Christian radio ministry in upstate New York that plays the softer vocal music Family Radio used to play. They cut their ties with FR because of Camping's false teaching and launched their own network reminiscent of Family Radio in its better days. Featured teachers include Ravi Zacharias, John McArthur, R.C. Sproul and the late James Montgomery Boice.
  

quote:

When I was in high school, an evangelical teacher taught "88 Reasons Why Jesus Will Return in 1988" (nothing happened).

quote:

ORIGINAL: humbleinspirit

quote:

When I was in high school, an evangelical teacher taught "88 Reasons Why Jesus Will Return in 1988" (nothing happened).

Now that was a fun book, lol! "88 Reasons why the rapture is in '88!"

quote:

ORIGINAL: NickSavage

I know exactly what your saying, Eutychus. There have been quite a few "date-setters" over the years, too. But the thing with most of them is that they usually give themselves away quickly when they explain how they "received" the information. Mr. Camping seems to be able to completely use the Bible to support his conclusion. But I must admit, I havent been able to actually take the time to sit down and check everything he's saying yet.

I ordered the "Time Has An End" book from Family Radio. I plan on going through it just to see for myself what he's talking about. I'll need to devote about two weeks (at least) to reading it to see if it checks out. Then, I will hopefully be able to say "it's nonsence", or, "maybe I need to look more into this".

In the mean time though, I pray that God's people whom He has called will be able to decipher this, as either truth or garbage, so that we can move on.

Has anybody out there been seriously looking into this yet??

Nick.

quote:

post

quote:

ORIGINAL: stampinlady

I tuned in yesterday because the christian station I usually listen irritated me wiht some "emergant" stuff that's been showing up here and there. I turned FR off when Camping came on. Dh filled me in on him and I'll stay clear, but I love the music and bible reading and a few other things.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kelman

Camping's dating system is questionable to me. The main one, I say "main" because it's one of the easier to understand, is Moses' father. In order to make the stay in Egypt 430 years, which is crititical for his dating system, Camping writes that Amram is not the immediate father of Moses.

Camping comes to the conclusion that Amram is not Moses' imediate father because the Bible doesn't say "and he called his name". It's hard, though, to deny the many verses which certainly appear to be teaching an immediate fatherhood for Amram.

Exodus 6:20 And Amram took him Jochebed his father's sister to wife; and she bare him Aaron and Moses: and the years of the life of Amram were an hundred and thirty and seven years.

Numbers 26:59 And the name of Amram's wife was Jochebed, the daughter of Levi, whom her mother bare to Levi in Egypt: and she bare unto Amram Aaron and Moses, and Miriam their sister.

1 Chronicles 6:3 And the children of Amram; Aaron, and Moses, and Miriam. The sons also of Aaron; Nadab, and Abihu, Eleazar, and Ithamar.

1 Chronicles 23:13 The sons of Amram; Aaron and Moses: and Aaron was separated, that he should sanctify the most holy things, he and his sons for ever, to burn incense before the LORD, to minister unto him, and to bless in his name for ever.

In general, I've always agreed with his patriarchal system of dating; but, I think there's too much biblical evidence against this theory with regard to Moses and Amram.....and it is critical. Without this assumption the 7000 years from the flood to 2011 doesn't work.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Paul_Jerome

quote:

ORIGINAL: kelman

Camping's dating system is questionable to me. The main one, I say "main" because it's one of the easier to understand, is Moses' father. In order to make the stay in Egypt 430 years, which is crititical for his dating system, Camping writes that Amram is not the immediate father of Moses.

Camping comes to the conclusion that Amram is not Moses' imediate father because the Bible doesn't say "and he called his name". It's hard, though, to deny the many verses which certainly appear to be teaching an immediate fatherhood for Amram.

Exodus 6:20 And Amram took him Jochebed his father's sister to wife; and she bare him Aaron and Moses: and the years of the life of Amram were an hundred and thirty and seven years.

Numbers 26:59 And the name of Amram's wife was Jochebed, the daughter of Levi, whom her mother bare to Levi in Egypt: and she bare unto Amram Aaron and Moses, and Miriam their sister.

1 Chronicles 6:3 And the children of Amram; Aaron, and Moses, and Miriam. The sons also of Aaron; Nadab, and Abihu, Eleazar, and Ithamar.

1 Chronicles 23:13 The sons of Amram; Aaron and Moses: and Aaron was separated, that he should sanctify the most holy things, he and his sons for ever, to burn incense before the LORD, to minister unto him, and to bless in his name for ever.

In general, I've always agreed with his patriarchal system of dating; but, I think there's too much biblical evidence against this theory with regard to Moses and Amram.....and it is critical. Without this assumption the 7000 years from the flood to 2011 doesn't work.

God told Abraham in Gen 15:16 that “in the fourth generation” his seed would come out from captivity (in Egypt) and return again to their own land. During that time, the Bible records the lifespan of Levi (137 years, Exo 6:16), Kohath (133 years, Exo 6:18), and Amram (137 years, Exo 6:20). We also know that Aaron was 83 years of age when Moses and Aaron spoke to Pharaoh (Exo 7:7).

quote:

I believe the Bible teaches that the age of Levi and his sons were God’s means of keeping time during the Egyptian Sojourn. Each was a calendar patriarch in his day. The key is that the year that one calendar patriarch died, the other was born. The entire lifespan of each in that respect was a ‘generation’. If Aaron was the fourth generation and Moses and Aaron led the Israelites out of Egypt when Aaron was 83 or 84 and Levi entered Egypt at age 60 or 61 (Levi died at 137, so that would be 76 or 77 years Levi spent in Egypt), then the calendar would look as follows:

Levi 77
Kohath 133
Amram 137
Aaron 83

Total: 430

quote:

ORIGINAL: kelman
In light of Gal 3:16-17, it seems the measurement of 430 years should begin with God's promise to Abraham "Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect." Paul is explicit that the giving of the law was 430 years from the promise to Abraham.

Since Abraham died before the entry into Egypt, that would make it impossible that there could have been 430 years in Egypt. There is some ambiguity in the KJV with regard to Exodus 12:40-41 ”Now the sojourning of the children of Israel, who dwelt in Egypt, was four hundred and thirty years.” The “who dwelt in Egypt” is modifying the children of Israel not necessarily saying that they dwelt 430 years in Eygpt. They were “sojourning” 430 years not dwelling in Egypt for 430 years.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kelman
Based on what I’ve read from others on the subject, the problem with that calendar is "that Kohath came into Egypt with Levi(Genesis 46:8-26, especially vs. 11) so Kohath was born before they came into Egypt, therefore, Levi's time in Egypt is not properly added to Kohath's time in Egypt, since their time in Egypt was overlapping."

I have other questions but perhaps you would address this as it seems to be a discrepancy?