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What comes first? Your ministry or your immediate family?
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What comes first? Your ministry or your immediate family? - 5/21/2009 1:52:49 PM
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redsgrl
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Biblically speaking... Does the Lord call us to put our ministry first above our family? Or should our family come before our ministry? Family being defined as my spouse and children.
I'm reminded of Matthew 8... but if this were the case, shouldn't we all be without families?
I've always prioritized this way:
Personal relationship with the Lord
Family
Ministry
Recently, I've been told otherwise, that it should be:
Personal relationship with the Lord
Ministry
Family
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RE: What comes first? Your ministry or your immediate f... - 5/21/2009 2:03:25 PM
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ironsharpensiron
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quote:
Personal relationship with the Lord
Family
Ministry
I do, and always will look at it this way.
Matthew
_____________________________
"As iron sharpens iron, so a man sharpens the countenance of his friend." Proverbs 27:17
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RE: What comes first? Your ministry or your immediate f... - 5/21/2009 2:09:05 PM
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ironsharpensiron
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I must add that if one cannot handle and keep their own family in line with the Word of God that they shouldn't be involved in any ministry until that is dealt with. In ministry we lead by example, in how we raise our children, and how we keep our homes in order. If we cannot do that first and foremost then we have no ministry.
Matthew
_____________________________
"As iron sharpens iron, so a man sharpens the countenance of his friend." Proverbs 27:17
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RE: What comes first? Your ministry or your immediate f... - 5/21/2009 2:10:20 PM
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bolt.
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There's only a conflict if you view whatever you are doing with your family as "not ministry".
When you view the balance between ministry-to-family and ministry-to-Church, it is essential that 'prioritization' not often come into play. Prioritization is when one mush choose what to neglect in favour of accomplishing something else. If, in our lives, there is so much to do that we must be choosing what to neglect, that is a clear sign that there are things on our plate that are not 'of God' (since the God who invented Sabbath, and designed us from scratch is not likely to mistakenly call us to more tasks than are possible to accomplish).
That said, if there is some prioritizing to be done, it should be done on a large scale, with prayer and wisdom, to establish a better lifestyle that will last a while. In this, it is key to consider (1) the degree of 'need' in the 'ministeree', (2) the degree of effectiveness for the gospel and the kingdom, (3) the degree of replacibility of yourself as minister, but most importantly (4) the sense of call from the God who owns you (you were bought at a price).
So, when considering one's ministry to spouse and children, I beleve the first three factors come in really high in all families. (Although 4 trumps all, and I believe that there are some people who are directly called to use the services of a bording school or some-such in order to fulfill a specific call.) So, in general, there is no justifcation for sorting one's life in according to priorities so as to consistantly neglect the ministry to one's family in favour of committments to other members of Christ's body.
That's not to say, though, that on occasion, one's spouse or children would not experience some let-downs or hard times in favour of outward-focused ministries that have a sudden and true season of need and/or explosion of effectiveness. It's not like you schedule funerals around your son's little league (in that case the need of the grieving family is clearly higher than the need of the boy at bat). Perhaps that is what the other theory is trying to express.
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RE: What comes first? Your ministry or your immediate f... - 5/21/2009 2:26:33 PM
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doinkdom
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I agree with Pharibault.
Using biblical discernment should eliminate any "what if's" as well.
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They are consumed in twelve minutes.
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This is not coincidence.
~Erma Bombeck
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RE: What comes first? Your ministry or your immediate f... - 5/21/2009 2:44:18 PM
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gcsmithjr
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quote:
Recently, I've been told otherwise, that it should be:
Personal relationship with the Lord
Ministry
Family
You should challenge anyone who tells you that ministry should come before family (as long as we're talking about a spouse and children) to back that statement up Biblically.
There are a number of verses that directly contradict putting ministry ahead of family.
First of all, Genesis 2:24 says that "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh." According to scripture, we are literally one flesh with our spouse, so if we are putting ministry ahead our family we are literally putting it ahead of part of ourselves.
In the New Testament letters when the offices of Deacon and Overseer are discussed - both of which are clearly leadership (ministry) roles in the church - one of the key qualifications for each is being effectively managing his own family and household:
1 Tim 3:2-5 "Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife...He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him with proper respect. (If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God's church?)"
1 Tim 3:12: "Let deacons each be the husband of one wife, managing their children and their own households well."
Finally, in 1 Corinthians 7 the Apostle Paul addresses this issue directly and recognizes that unmarried men and women have the freedom to be fully devoted to God's work but acknowledges that it's not a mandate. He goes on to make it clear that married men and women who are serving the kingdom still have an obligation to fulfill their marital duties:
Now for the matters you wrote about: "It is good for a man not to marry. But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband. The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife. Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control."
I don't think you'll find anything in scripture that supports a position of putting our ministry ahead of our spouse or children.
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RE: What comes first? Your ministry or your immediate f... - 5/21/2009 2:56:24 PM
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hjemerson
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In the 80's we were worked in a large INP Baptist church as in payed staff and we were told CHURCH IS FRIST/(if you could not attend because you were sick forget coming to work the next day as also for your child was sick) Nonthing elsa! that included family etc. We left in the later 80:s and now all the families that stated and still in that church lost their familyies divorce re marreied other and so many siser/brothe are now stop brothe and sisiter with us to be best friend ! so I agree 1 THE LORD frist 2 family then 3 church service . If more pastor would seek this we would not have pastor and familyes seprating! God gave us family before church service!
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RE: What comes first? Your ministry or your immediate f... - 5/21/2009 11:06:37 PM
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iratenate
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My family is my first ministry. End of story.
Nate
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RE: What comes first? Your ministry or your immediate f... - 5/22/2009 6:52:20 AM
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DaveW
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Priorities are this:
1 - the Lord
2 - the Lord
3 - the Lord
If you are following Him, He will balance everything else out. The time you take for your family will be at His direction. Ministry time will be at His direction. Everything else too.
_____________________________
Avatar is my daughter Laura and SIL David on their wedding 9/20/09 ====================================
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RE: What comes first? Your ministry or your immediate f... - 5/23/2009 9:38:23 AM
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RJR_fan
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quote:
Biblically speaking... Does the Lord call us to put our ministry first above our family? Or should our family come before our ministry?
Biblically speaking, the default setting for maximum human happiness is married life. "In the image of God created He him. Male and female created He them."
High-demand communities have, over the centuries, endured by hijacking the binding energies of the family. Most of the time, by requiring celibacy of the monks and nuns.[1] Affectional valences are directed towards the community, rather than towards the spouse and children.
As a 1972 or 73 article in New Wine magazine[2] put it, residential communes tend to attract the "weaker and more dependent" personalities, and produce an artificial kind of hot-house growth. Members achieve skyrocketing levels of Bible knowledge, even while their competence for dealing with the real world plummets. As Susan Berg, daughter of David "Moses" Berg (founder of the "Children of God / Family of Love" cult[3]) explained, guys in particular have a hard time transitioning from cult life to real life. Biggest problem? Loss of initiative, and crippled work ethic. After all, while active in the cult, one is engaged in "ministry" of cosmic significance, eternal issues at stake, and the world (or the Lord?) owes one a living, since what one is doing is so important.
Decades after you crash and burn, and slink away from such a "ministry" with a sense of humiliation and defeat on every level, you still recall the days when you were important to a handful of other dedicated people. You still find what passes for "fellowship" in your evangelical church to be thin gruel by comparison.
Ministry is exciting. Excitement is seductive. Bob Pierce (founder of World Vision) and Billy Sunday both lost neglected children to suicide. Billy Sunday had the "opportunity" to start his ministry a few decades early, and pounced. His immaturity cost him his children and cost the whole evangelical church credibility in the public arena. A century later, we are still struggling to overcome the legacy of Prohibition, an idiotic attempt to force our neighbors to be holier than Jesus.
"If any care not for his own, specially they of his own household, he is worse than an infidel and hath denied the faith." Let me see how your home-schooled teenagers behave, and I'll see how seriously I should take your message.
[1] The Oneida commune practiced "scientific" breeding, and organized orgies. They lasted for several generations.
[2] I was in such a group at that time, so the date and the article are engraved i my memory!
[3] This group is more like the Oneida commune than like the Trappist monastery!
_____________________________
Blogging my way through the Turkish New Testament
Meet my beloved mentor, RJR
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RE: What comes first? Your ministry or your immediate f... - 5/23/2009 12:36:15 PM
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jn1010lf
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Hello redsgrl
One's relationship with the Lord always comes first. When that's in place, answers to questions fall in place.
Many ministers get the mistaken idea that they are the lone saviour of the world. They then bury themselves in doing that. Family, especially children do not understand why they are neglected. So, one has to follow the leading of the Lord as to time spent in vaious aspects of life.
Let me say that if ministers raise up leaders around him, he won't have to be all things to all people and burn himself to the bone.
In summary, I would then say this.
God
Family
Ministry
Why? Well first there was God. Then came marriage. The church didn't come about at a much later time.
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RE: What comes first? Your ministry or your immediate f... - 5/24/2009 5:41:35 AM
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RJR_fan
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quote:
Let me say that if ministers raise up leaders around him, he won't have to be all things to all people and burn himself to the bone.
A good place to start, of course, is with one's own children. One of Jerry Falwell's sons, a pastor, now heads up Thomas Road Baptist Church. Another son, a lawyer, runs Liberty University.
On a small scale -- if you yearn to evangelize Muslims, such as foreign college students, your family is more than half of your testimony. Even minor children can help forge bonds of affection with these people who are destined for greatness in their own home countries.
Kids want to be in on what their parents are up to. Incorporate them as valued components of a ministry outreach, and their lives are enormously enriched.
I think, folks, we're still suffering from the hangover of a millennium of clerical celibacy being presented as the norm. A man (or woman) without a family can move mountains. But a godly dynasty can compound grace, destiny, and influence over the course of generations.
Ministry is a form of parenting, after all.
_____________________________
Blogging my way through the Turkish New Testament
Meet my beloved mentor, RJR
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RE: What comes first? Your ministry or your immediate f... - 5/24/2009 1:49:37 PM
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earthless
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Many people today are duped into thinking God being first = church/ministry time. Nope.
God being first = one's personal relationship with God.
Church/family time for the layman is to be, according to my humble opinion, fourth on our list.
1) God (one's personal living daily relationship with our Savior)
2) Family
3) Work (the jobs God allows you to have so that you can provide for your family)
4) Church (time for church, ministry, bible classes, etc)
5) Friends
And 4/5 are interchangeable if need be.
The only reason I say this is because I have known way too many people who are duped into thinking putting God first equals being at church or involved at church all of the time they can (giving the pastor free time to do nothing while being paid for full time ministry), some every night of the week, and their homes, their families are in ruins.
Kids hungry and with no stability, sitting in church way after 9:00 PM still in their school uniform, dozing off in the pews, and not being cared for, homework not being done, kids running the streets, husbands not attended to, house is all dirty and in shambles, laundry not done because there is no time, bills stacking up, etc etc.. all because they have to be involved in any and every ministry.
Our family, our home is to be our number one ministry. Not giving a class on Thursday night for the youth and your home is not in order.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: What comes first? Your ministry or your immediate f... - 5/24/2009 2:09:56 PM
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Prairiehiker
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Many people today are duped into thinking God being first = church/ministry time. Nope.
God being first = one's personal relationship with God.
Church/family time for the layman is to be, according to my humble opinion, fourth on our list.
1) God (one's personal living daily relationship with our Savior)
2) Family
3) Work (the jobs God allows you to have so that you can provide for your family)
4) Church (time for church, ministry, bible classes, etc)
5) Friends
And 4/5 are interchangeable if need be.
The only reason I say this is because I have known way too many people who are duped into thinking putting God first equals being at church or involved at church all of the time they can (giving the pastor free time to do nothing while being paid for full time ministry), some every night of the week, and their homes, their families are in ruins.
Kids hungry and with no stability, sitting in church way after 9:00 PM still in their school uniform, dozing off in the pews, and not being cared for, homework not being done, kids running the streets, husbands not attended to, house is all dirty and in shambles, laundry not done because there is no time, bills stacking up, etc etc.. all because they have to be involved in any and every ministry.
Our family, our home is to be our number one ministry. Not giving a class on Thursday night for the youth and your home is not in order.
Thank you, Earthless for posting this. In the current trend of program oriented churches where everyone is encouraged to serve "the church" but with little emphasis in serving our families, it's resulting in a lot of family and relationship breakdowns. I've known far too many families that have struggled with this because one of the spouse spends all his/her free time in some sort of church activities in the name of "serving" (some are even ministers). I think this is almost a tool by the devil masquerading as ministry. I will not ever compromise my daughter's relationship to serve others because first and foremost, God called me to serve her first.
Service or ministry is everything that you do with your life at every given moment....not just getting involved in some church programs that most often than not, takes away the focus on Jesus and what He meant by serving.
_____________________________
Search me, Oh God, and know my heart
Try me, and know my anxieties;
And see if there is any wicked way in me, and
Lead me in the way everlasting Psalm 139:22-24
-------------------------------------
Go Steelers!!!
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RE: What comes first? Your ministry or your immediate f... - 5/25/2009 12:28:36 AM
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Peloton
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God
Family
Ministry
Work(vocation)
Friends
Me
I never place my high calling, family, or my relationship with God before my vocation. Many employment opportunities have been closed for me when my priorities were out of alignment. Just like your car, ck the alignment once in a while. I don't have tires to wear but I do have a body that seems to wear faster when not aligned properly.
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RE: What comes first? Your ministry or your immediate f... - 5/25/2009 12:46:43 AM
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Bro_Shane
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It must be God, family, then church. If a person is not either taking care of his family or does not have his household in order he does not meet the biblical qualifications for leadership.
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RE: What comes first? Your ministry or your immediate f... - 5/25/2009 3:54:38 AM
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TheTartanTammy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
Priorities are this:
1 - the Lord
2 - the Lord
3 - the Lord
If you are following Him, He will balance everything else out. The time you take for your family will be at His direction. Ministry time will be at His direction. Everything else too.
Sorry, cannot agree with serials 1 & 2. I believe that God expects us to put Him first certainly, but says that the second command is to love our neighbours as ourselves, which means taking personal responsibility for how our vertical relationship with Him is worked out in the horizontal.
_____________________________
TheTartanTammy
Isa 40: 11
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RE: What comes first? Your ministry or your immediate f... - 5/25/2009 5:06:50 AM
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ranmanpats
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God, Ministry and Church are all one and cannot be separated.
When we separate them, it is just us trying to make it OK to do less and less for God. With the priority list having God (as a personal relationship with Him) number one, what does that mean if it is not lived out through your church life, ministry and love of others? When you eliminate those things, then #1 God is just this warm fuzzy you get when you think about Him. This then leaves everything else prioritized beneath #2 Family, including church and ministry. OK now I can lump everything I want into Family and defend it by saying: 'Hey, I have God #1!!! But what does that really mean? It doesn't mean attending church, it doesn't mean discipleship within the church, it doesn't mean leadership within the church, it doesn't mean teaching within the church, it doesn't mean having any sort of ministry for Him, it doesn't mean loving my neighbor,...........what does it mean?????????
Putting your family above church and ministry (or separating these things from God) is a worldly concept that says - 'you're worth it', 'you deserve it'. Selfishness. Shane is right we are expected by God to take care of our families, but that is a far cry from putting them above ministry for God and His church. It is part of our ministry and no more than loving others.
If you put Famlily #2 and Church/Ministry #3 or 4, where do you put your neighbor? your enemy? Jesus made 2 things clear: 1) the Church is your family - even more so than your blood sometimes (I guess water is thicker than blood afterall) 2) you are to love your neighbor as yourself.
Where do these things fit in to the list? Are they an obscure entry under God or are they part of Church/Ministry which is only done after you do what you want to do and call it Family time?
For HIS Glory
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RE: What comes first? Your ministry or your immediate f... - 5/25/2009 7:30:00 AM
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rcjames
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So I get a call from someone in the congregation with a major sitation; child committed suicide, husband gone crazy and molest child or abuses wife; wife runs of with the mailman, whatever, and what do I tell them;
"Gosh, I would really like to come and minister to you, but my wife has been feeling a little neglected lately; so we are going to watch a couple of girly movies and I am going to give her a foot massage."
I don't think so.
MY wife and I both would put on hold whaterver we had planned and together take care of the needs of the folks whom we shepherd.
Thanks
RC
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RE: What comes first? Your ministry or your immediate f... - 5/25/2009 8:53:11 AM
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TheTartanTammy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
So I get a call from someone in the congregation with a major sitation; child committed suicide, husband gone crazy and molest child or abuses wife; wife runs of with the mailman, whatever, and what do I tell them;
"Gosh, I would really like to come and minister to you, but my wife has been feeling a little neglected lately; so we are going to watch a couple of girly movies and I am going to give her a foot massage."
I don't think so.
MY wife and I both would put on hold whaterver we had planned and together take care of the needs of the folks whom we shepherd.
Thanks
RC
Sorry, but you are stating the obvious. What we don't do in ministry is neglect our families for routine ministry matters!
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TheTartanTammy
Isa 40: 11
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RE: What comes first? Your ministry or your immediate f... - 5/25/2009 9:19:03 AM
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RJR_fan
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quote:
Putting your family above church and ministry (or separating these things from God) is a worldly concept that says - 'you're worth it',
Church, ministry, and family are horizontal expressions of our vertical relationship with God. Anything on the visible, human level can become an idol. Everything on the visible, human level needs to be assigned its proper claim on our limited resources of time, attention, and energy.
That takes wisdom, rather than trite cliches. At different stages in our lives, the priorities shift. For example, Billy Sunday got the "opportunity" to jump-start his ministry by a few decades when the "robber baron" capitalists made him an offer. They would bankroll his dog and pony shows. He would be their mouthpiece from time to time.
All it cost him was his children. He entrusted them to the care of hired help, so they would not be underfoot as he barnstormed the world carving a million notches on his Bible.
Oldest -- a daughter -- lost to childhood illness. The next three, sons, all disgraced his ministry by sinning with broads, booze, and boodle. Oldest son died by his own hand.
When our children are small, their needs must take priority over the demands of applauding strangers.
Hudson Taylor's "ministry" was so much more important than the children of the missionaries that the kids were bundled off to residential schools at an early age. He lost one affectionate 5-year old son to separation anxiety -- but think of how much more "ministry" he was able to do without the kid to worry about.
I dialed back on my support of the Salvation Army when they implemented a policy against home schooling. Both parents are "officers," and the "ministry" takes priority over the kids, you see.
Best-case scenario: as we raise our kids in the nurture and admonition of the Lord, we take them by the hand and lead them into the work of ministry God has called us to specialize in. For example, if God has encouraged you to reach out to family-friendly cultures, your family is more than half of your witness. When missionaries began penetrating Africa in the 1800s, the cry went out, "The destroyers of families are coming!" Muslim folks are, I suspect, far more amenable to warm-hearted and hospitable families than they are to our very best, a-number-one, ultra-slick, highly professional, stage performers.
_____________________________
Blogging my way through the Turkish New Testament
Meet my beloved mentor, RJR
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RE: What comes first? Your ministry or your immediate f... - 5/25/2009 9:19:30 AM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
So I get a call from someone in the congregation with a major sitation; child committed suicide, husband gone crazy and molest child or abuses wife; wife runs of with the mailman, whatever, and what do I tell them;
"Gosh, I would really like to come and minister to you, but my wife has been feeling a little neglected lately; so we are going to watch a couple of girly movies and I am going to give her a foot massage."
I don't think so.
MY wife and I both would put on hold whaterver we had planned and together take care of the needs of the folks whom we shepherd.
Thanks
RC
Two key differences here.. you're a full-time pastor - that is YOUR JOB.
Secondly, any decent person would never say that to someone who just had a child die, etc..
Getting back to point #1 a little.. as a layman.. it ALWAYS irked me to no end when on the pastor would rail on the church for not attending the Sunday night service or for not coming to volunteer Saturday mornings for the food pantry, etc..
Sunday evening he would go on and on about "making time for the Lord" and not being worried about staying a little longer in church. Yeah.. because he was not the one getting up at 4:30 AM that following Monday morning for a 12 hour day.
Often times pastors and such that have been in full-time ministry for some time seem to forget what is like not being in full-time ministry.
Consideration is key.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: What comes first? Your ministry or your immediate f... - 5/25/2009 11:33:39 AM
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crankius
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1. God
2. Family
3. Ministry
(And I agree that part of family includes employment to support that family, so I guess technically work would be placed 3 and ministry 4.)
We have to consider that God established the offices and gifts within the church to equip and edify. Equip and edify for what? So that we may not be tossed to and fro, so that we may be unified in Christ, so that we may be obedient to the Lord in all things and shine like stars in the universe.
Making the church a large ministry machine where everyone is being equipped and edified to self-feed the church machine is defeating and not glorifying--a waste.
We ought to be equipping and edifying people so that their entire life (family, work, friends, home, etc.) reflects God's glory and is Christ-filled. Then, every area of life is effective ministry.
There are some who live for the church, but there are others who are the Church and they are trying to live. When we take enthusiastic new believers and make them believe that loving God = immersing in the church machine, we fail miserably.
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Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
Church Covenants
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