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RE: Why does weight get the shaft? - 5/28/2009 2:30:43 PM
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Ross.Lang
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quote:
Well then I'm done here. If you don't think the bible is relevant to this conversation ..... . I tried backing you bud, but you're on your own now.
No no...  It's relevant, of course, but the problem with threads that call for scripture to justify everything is that it quickly descends into the absurd: "Look, Jesus' disciples caught so many fish their nets broke, that means God wants us to be fat!" "Look, Paul fasted and prayed for his thorn in the flesh to be removed, that means fat people should starve themselves!" People need to realize that sometimes the best bridge between scripture and the present is general concepts, not a specific example. The bible talks in a lot of helpful ways about how to relate to a spouse. It does not talk a lot about what to do with body weight. Also, the paradigmatic theme in Paul of putting on the scripture and serving as a living example of the gospel seems to hint that proof texting is a secondary resource when a person's life-engagement with another person has failed.
-Ross
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RE: Why does weight get the shaft? - 5/28/2009 3:44:23 PM
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elastic
Posts: 1866
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quote:
"Look, Jesus' disciples caught so many fish their nets broke, that means God wants us to be fat!" "Look, Paul fasted and prayed for his thorn in the flesh to be removed, that means fat people should starve themselves!"
true, so true...and soon they'll be saying stuff like "you know, God wants me to focus on my appearance and weight and how the world views me in general, and he wants me to have the approval of man. really he does. He wants me to focus less on Him, serving Him, and telling others about Him and what He's done for me so that I can lose 20 pounds and my husband will find me more attractive. If i can just focus on myself hard enough, watch what I eat and write everything down in a food diary, then I won't have to bother praying without ceasing and all that non-sense. It's much more important that I lose the weight so I can look good and pretend that it's for my health than to focus on Christ and all He's done for me"
there is just no end is there?
/sarc.
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Need more coffee to pull it off.
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RE: Why does weight get the shaft? - 5/28/2009 8:09:39 PM
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Ross.Lang
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Right, and all those things work in this context. I wasn't calling any single person out, I was just saying that if you have a thread were every post is a verse, it's not long before you start to see logical leaps "supported by scripture" that would make Harold Camping do a double take.
-Ross
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RE: Why does weight get the shaft? - 5/28/2009 9:21:05 PM
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Corne
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So...it's safer to leave scripture out of it. (I've never seen a thread where every post was a verse.)
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RE: Why does weight get the shaft? - 5/28/2009 11:23:50 PM
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Ross.Lang
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No, it's better to have it, it's just not all bad when you don't. You don't get people trying to use scripture to justify their views on clothing or music choices that way.
-Ross
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RE: Why does weight get the shaft? - 5/29/2009 3:40:31 AM
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stateofgrace
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ross.Lang
No, it's better to have it, it's just not all bad when you don't. You don't get people trying to use scripture to justify their views on clothing or music choices that way.
-Ross
Um, yes, those arguments exist, even likely some on this board (clothing, definately...less likely on the music here because of the strong affiliation with CCM).
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RE: Why does weight get the shaft? - 5/29/2009 3:38:35 PM
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doinkdom
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stampinlady
quote:
It does not talk a lot about what to do with body weight.
Self controled, moderation, beating my body into submission? Those fit very well into this discussion. I don't mean to sound like a bible thumper, but ... yes I do. 
I would agree that the bible speaks on all those things...and yet...no mention of the ideal weight.
I eat healthy...as do many people. I exercise, etc. but my weight is still high compared to insurance charts.
The bible really does talk about self control, moderation and all that, but it doesn't give us the goal of moderation being a certain weight.
I suppose that just lines up with weight is not always an indicator of health.
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Thanksgiving dinners take eighteen hours to prepare.
They are consumed in twelve minutes.
Half-times take twelve minutes.
This is not coincidence.
~Erma Bombeck
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RE: Why does weight get the shaft? - 5/29/2009 4:58:51 PM
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nuclear_sidewalk
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I expect a future wife to keep herself healthy, but the exact definition of "healthy" will change with age. Same goes for me. I've no real heart issues in my family, but my father had a stroke at 58. It's got me determined to stay healthy for as long as possible, so I'll not be a worry for my siblings, future wife or children.
I think the OP's point is valid. There are lots of overweight and obese Christians, my parents included, who simply don't take good care of themselves. Heckle a smoker and it's okay. Do the same to an overweight person and they'll say you're being a complete jerk. (not that I'd really condone doing either, the principle stands)
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RE: Why does weight get the shaft? - 5/29/2009 5:03:49 PM
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agapetos
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quote:
but the exact definition of "healthy" will change with age It is notthe definition of healthy that changes, we just need to make allowances for underlying health problems and the effect of age on an individuals health.
We should all aim to be as healthy as we can in our given circumstances.
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RE: Why does weight get the shaft? - 5/29/2009 5:09:52 PM
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doinkdom
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quote:
ORIGINAL: nuclear_sidewalk
Heckle a smoker and it's okay. Do the same to an overweight person and they'll say you're being a complete jerk. (not that I'd really condone doing either, the principle stands)
then you should go check out the smoking thread...
neither are acceptable and both seem to be easy targets
_____________________________
Thanksgiving dinners take eighteen hours to prepare.
They are consumed in twelve minutes.
Half-times take twelve minutes.
This is not coincidence.
~Erma Bombeck
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RE: Why does weight get the shaft? - 5/30/2009 8:02:57 PM
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starvin.artist.gurl
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I didn't get to read ALL of the posts here, but I skimmed quite a few. I have to say, I do see all sides of this argument. I think the problem here is when a man and a woman's basic needs start to conflict.
Men are visual creatures. I get that. God made you that way. And God made women to appeal to that.
Now here's the thing... a woman's basic need is to feel loved and appreciated and secure in her husband.
If a woman neglects to take her appearance seriously, it's going to leave a man unhappy. And if the man isn't sensitive, he's going to destroy his wife. I don't think we should criminalize either party for feeling that way in either situation.
That being said, I do think this situation requires some tact and support. When you took your vows you promised in sickness and in health to love and cherish one another. Did you really mean it? Are you going to honor your vows? That's the real question here. It's completely unBiblical for a man to withhold intimacy because he thinks his wife is ugly and the same goes for the other way around.
I don't think it's wrong to encourage one another to be healthy, but I do think it's terribly ignorant and cruel to feel like you can bully your spouse into getting what you want. What kind of marriage would that make?
Personally, I do struggle with my weight. I have struggled with weight my entire life. And thank God he gave me an understanding husband who tells me I'm beautiful even when I feel so discouraged. I teach nutrition, so I do actually know all about eating healthy. Trust me, I am no glutton. I eat really healthy. I simply gain weight very easily. It's part of the way I am. And I am trying to fight some pounds I've put on in the past three years of marriage because I want to feel healthy and energetic and I do want my husband to feel proud when we go out. But I've never had to put feel like my husband would emotionally crush me if I didn't reach my goals on time.
In high school, I looked pretty good (even though I still thought I was fat)... but I was anorexic. My hair literally started falling out and my menstrual cycle totally stopped for months at a time. I got older and I thankfully realized that was equally dangerous to my health as a few extra pounds. My husband doesn't want me to damage my body through that kind of abuse. So now here I am... yep, heavier and struggling to figure out a healthy way to maintain my weight. My husband is totally supportive of me, and I know that. And knowing that he really cares about me is what makes me want to do my best for him.
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RE: Why does weight get the shaft? - 5/30/2009 9:20:30 PM
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dboe
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Okay, I guess I am now convinced that men are the more shallow gender... I cannot imagine not being physically attracted to my husband even if he gained MORE weight (and he is NOT a skinny man :) I would still think he was the hottest ever... Because he is himself. He has always been big, he has always been kind, and I just think he will always be these things... I mean the man has a gut but he is wonderful and so attractive to me... he is a whole person a whole package I can't imagine thinking that I could no longer be attracted to him or something... I mean I know men are more visual and what not, but really? Pregnancy weight a turn off? Really? Seriously guys, really? Eating toast and water and getting surgery? Really? This is so unloving... we always say look on the inside of people for beauty, can't we do that in our own marraiges? For the record, my mother gained weight because of a brain tumour, she used to be a dietitian, my Dad still loves her and cares for her... people have real struggles in this life... Yes lose weight for health but not being attracted to your spouse because of it? Its not right in any way...
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RE: Why does weight get the shaft? - 5/30/2009 9:24:31 PM
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dboe
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And besides REAL WOMEN HAVE CURVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now all you GUYS go see that movie.... thankyou and goodnight...
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RE: Why does weight get the shaft? - 5/30/2009 10:07:40 PM
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benelchi
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quote:
Okay, I guess I am now convinced that men are the more shallow gender...
There really is never a reason for these kinds of statements. One gender is not superior to the other, Scripture makes that pretty clear.
BTW - Do you even realize that some of the strongest disagreement with the OP came from MEN?
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RE: Why does weight get the shaft? - 5/31/2009 12:03:51 AM
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nuclear_sidewalk
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At least this thread doesn't disappoint in terms of showing all sides.
I know people gain weight for various legitimate reasons, but have yet to meet anyone obese (see: not simply overweight, but the next level up, leads to health issues) who isn't mostly responsible for their condition. (it does not happen overnight) It's seriously unhealthy and should be addressed. I say this as a guy, but also a person with obese parents. Now they're in their early 60s, have major health issues, and it's extremely difficult to lose the weight that's hurting them. If you're heavy and old enough to have knee or hip issues, then taking regular walks to lose weight is almost impossible. It becomes cyclical, and everyone needs to keep this in mind while they're younger.
Before anyone gets knee-jerk defensive, I think they should check themselves. We're to take care of these temples we're given. While that doesn't mean everyone will be skinny, as we come in all shapes and builds, it does mean that an obese Christian needs to take a serious look at the issue. We need to be loving to our brothers and sisters in this respect, but many ignore the problem entirely.
< Message edited by nuclear_sidewalk -- 5/31/2009 12:13:50 AM >
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RE: Why does weight get the shaft? - 5/31/2009 9:05:01 AM
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zoebob
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But the OP was talking about simply being a little overweight not necessarily obese.
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RE: Why does weight get the shaft? - 5/31/2009 2:54:34 PM
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Hislittleone
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Yep, and he wants to discuss the "attraction" factor NOT the "health" factor. From what I've gathered he basically wants to know why it's not ok for a man to tell his wife to lose the 20-30 lbs she gained so that he can find her attractive again.
_____________________________
Galations 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
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RE: Why does weight get the shaft? - 5/31/2009 5:51:43 PM
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solo_soprano23
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Hislittleone
Yep, and he wants to discuss the "attraction" factor NOT the "health" factor. From what I've gathered he basically wants to know why it's not ok for a man to tell his wife to lose the 20-30 lbs she gained so that he can find her attractive again.
I'm not married yet, but sometimes I wonder what happens when someone is attracted to a physical trait of another (in addition to the rest of the person), then that trait disappears? What does one do, if it was important to them for the other person to keep that trait?
If a woman gains weight (and let's just say), she is unable to lose the weight for some legit reason, but her husband doesn't like the weight, then what? What if she just likes the weight and doesn't want to lose it? I've actually seen some husbands make women sign a "skinny pledge" before they get married, but how does anyone know the future? How do we know what age will do to us, or what health problems may arise?
Honestly, if one's wife gains for some reason or another and is happy with herself, then what? If she feels that she looks and feels better with the weight... then what? (I see that happen a lot with rather skinny or underweight women who gain a few pounds.  )
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RE: Why does weight get the shaft? - 5/31/2009 6:14:04 PM
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hotsaucygma
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Wow, 194 posts on this, and I just can't seem to help making it at least 195  .
Anyway, to the question why is it a "taboo" subject? Well it's not. It appears far too often actually. However, without looking up the scripture and as a non-theologian, I believe there is a comment about Jesus not being a physically impressive man- I don't believe it says anywhere whether he was thin or not, the thorn in the side of Paul has been speculated to be a physically unattractive thing, David was "small" and not looked at as "manly"- but it has been mentioned that God looks at the heart. A woman's beauty is said not to be in outward appearance but in a gentle spirit. Perhaps that indicates that physical attributes are not as important as the heart and spirit. Perhaps that is a reason that so many Christians feel that physical attractiveness should not be as important as your OP seems to indicate it is to some. And yes, the Bible does warn of gluttony, teaches us to practice self control and a number of things that do indicate we should be careful with our bodies and maintain them and keep them healthy. Perhaps that is why so many people bring the health factor into the weight discussion. To go to either extreme and say "this is the way it is" is wrong, imo.
To discuss weight gain with your spouse is not wrong. To discuss why a spouse is not being promoted at work is not wrong. To discuss a spouse coming home with all his hair shaved off is not wrong. To discuss it in an unkind manner is. IMO, to make it a condition of loving is wrong. As was pointed out quite well earlier in the thread, character is what should matter more. As was also pointed out it should be much more a matter of what and why things have changed, and what if anything should be done about it. A discussion is not a "you let yourself go and get fat, do something about it" statement.
During my 29 years of marriage, my Ex-husband gained weight and lost weight. I gained weight and lost some of it but overall he stayed in much better physical shape. There were a variety of reasons for both of us to either gain or lose the extra lbs. At no point did either of us find the other less worthy of love or less desirable. Even though he would have probably preferred I looked more like my thin pre-marriage days, he never stopped telling me I was beautiful or stopped desiring me. His pre-marriage days were physically different too- did I prefer those muscles and that body, probably, but to tell the truth I didn't really pay as much attention as I did to what was happening personality wise. To me he was always handsome, no matter what his weight was. Alcoholism was what destroyed our marriage in the end, and that did change his character. How interesting that he as a non Christian and an alcoholic acted far more lovingly toward an overweight spouse than so many Christians seem to.
I am not saying that it is unloving or unChristian to want your spouse to lose weight. It is not wrong that you find the "thin" version of your spouse more physically attractive. But if that spouse is still basically the same person as far as their interests and activities (within reason, there may be limitations due to caring for children, medical changes or whatever) and the only change is in their "looks", is it really love to no longer want them? Is it really how Christ would love his bride? Is that not the kind of love we are called to? As Christians?
_____________________________
Arrogance boasts. Confidence is quiet, it has no need to boast.
Wisdom from an email I received a few days ago.
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RE: Why does weight get the shaft? - 5/31/2009 6:15:46 PM
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Hislittleone
Posts: 681
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From: The South
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano23
quote:
ORIGINAL: Hislittleone
Yep, and he wants to discuss the "attraction" factor NOT the "health" factor. From what I've gathered he basically wants to know why it's not ok for a man to tell his wife to lose the 20-30 lbs she gained so that he can find her attractive again.
I'm not married yet, but sometimes I wonder what happens when someone is attracted to a physical trait of another (in addition to the rest of the person), then that trait disappears? What does one do, if it was important to them for the other person to keep that trait?
If a woman gains weight (and let's just say), she is unable to lose the weight for some legit reason, but her husband doesn't like the weight, then what? What if she just likes the weight and doesn't want to lose it? I've actually seen some husbands make women sign a "skinny pledge" before they get married, but how does anyone know the future? How do we know what age will do to us, or what health problems may arise?
Honestly, if one's wife gains for some reason or another and is happy with herself, then what? If she feels that she looks and feels better with the weight... then what? (I see that happen a lot with rather skinny or underweight women who gain a few pounds. )
Usually people are attracted to more than one single trait in their spouse. So if one part changes you've still got the rest of the package that attracted you in the first place.
Putting so much importance on a characteristic that is very likely to change is setting yourself up for a big let-down.
When I was dating it was a big turn off when guys would talk about weight or pick apart other women's physical traits (like "she's really thin but boy does she have a lot of cellulite on her legs" or if they would make rude comments about women that were overweight etc.).  Even though I was petite I knew that I didn't want someone who would criticize me like that because things inevitably do change over time. And boy, am I glad I didn't marry someone like that!
If a wife gains weight and likes herself better that way but her husband doesn't then they are going to have to find a way to compromise or one will have to give in to the other's wishes. I don't know.... If you don't marry a man who's overly concerned about outward appearances then you won't have to worry about it.
I've gotta wonder what a woman is thinking if she signs a "skinny contract". That's ridiculous. What was the husband's part of that deal??? Meaning what was he promising in return for her eternal skinniness?
_____________________________
Galations 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
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RE: Why does weight get the shaft? - 5/31/2009 6:24:08 PM
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Hislittleone
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Wow, excellent post Hotsaucygma! I especially loved this part....
quote:
...and the only change is in their "looks", is it really love to no longer want them? Is it really how Christ would love his bride? Is that not the kind of love we are called to? As Christians?
_____________________________
Galations 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
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RE: Why does weight get the shaft? - 5/31/2009 6:28:22 PM
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hotsaucygma
Posts: 5042
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Hislittleone
Wow, excellent post Hotsaucygma! I especially loved this part....
quote:
...and the only change is in their "looks", is it really love to no longer want them? Is it really how Christ would love his bride? Is that not the kind of love we are called to? As Christians?
Thanks Hislittleone, I guess I truly don't understand how a person's appearence makes them more or less lovable- I loved my husband very much, his weight was just such a non-issue. And apparently he felt my weight was as well. One of the good things in that marriage, I guess.
_____________________________
Arrogance boasts. Confidence is quiet, it has no need to boast.
Wisdom from an email I received a few days ago.
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RE: Why does weight get the shaft? - 5/31/2009 11:26:07 PM
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MowTin
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quote:
Both of his parents died of heart disease. He was diagnosed with heart disease five years ago. He also has a bad back. He refuses to do anything to improve his health. My grandparents were married for 68 years when Grandpa died at the age of 90yo. I always assumed I would have a long and happy marriage. At this point, it's doubtful that my husband will live to age 68.
I notice that it's OK for women to tell their husbands that they need to lose weight. I see wives pull food away from their husbands in public and make remarks about their weight. But if a man did the same he would be a monster.
There is a HUGE double standard here.
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