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RE: Why does weight get the shaft? - 6/1/2009 12:33:20 AM
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myka
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quote:
I notice that it's OK for women to tell their husbands that they need to lose weight. I see wives pull food away from their husbands in public and make remarks about their weight. But if a man did the same he would be a monster.
There is a HUGE double standard here.
Sorry, the wife that pulls food away from their husband or makes remarks about their weight would be a "monster", too. At least with the people that I know.
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RE: Why does weight get the shaft? - 6/1/2009 7:42:51 AM
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Qtman
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To be attracted to someone because of a physical trait is one thing. However, I did not fall in love with any of my wife's physical traits. I fell in Love with my wife. Physical appearance changes. But, She is still the same person I fell in love with. If one merely falls in love with a physical trait that person is doomed to a life of disappointment.
_____________________________
Be what you is and not what you ain't. Cause if you ain't what you is, you is what you ain't. - Jeff Easter
<Me & my happyplate at Lobster Hut
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RE: Why does weight get the shaft? - 6/1/2009 2:09:51 PM
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Corne
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I think it's interesting that so often men stand on the mountain of "God created men to be visual". Did not God design women's metabolism? Her estrogen laden system? Her propensity for curve accumulation?
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RE: Why does weight get the shaft? - 6/1/2009 3:53:00 PM
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Hislittleone
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From: The South
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quote:
ORIGINAL: myka
quote:
Mowtin: I notice that it's OK for women to tell their husbands that they need to lose weight. I see wives pull food away from their husbands in public and make remarks about their weight. But if a man did the same he would be a monster.
There is a HUGE double standard here.
Sorry, the wife that pulls food away from their husband or makes remarks about their weight would be a "monster", too. At least with the people that I know.
I agree. A wife who treats her husband that way is wrong. It's so disrespectful and rude. 
quote:
Corne: I think it's interesting that so often men stand on the mountain of "God created men to be visual". Did not God design women's metabolism? Her estrogen laden system? Her propensity for curve accumulation?
I think I remember hearing that it's actually better to be a little overweight than underweight because that extra fat can serve as protection during times of illness (i.e. a time when you might not be able to eat adequately). It would also make sense as a layer of protection for women who are in the childbearing/nursing years.
I do think God created women with the tendency to carry a little more weight than men on average.
_____________________________
Galations 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
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RE: Why does weight get the shaft? - 6/24/2009 12:30:24 PM
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traddatz
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I am responding to HisLamb26. Most men do not expect their wives to have a size two body. Most men will tell you that the way their wives take care of themselves is a very important issue for them and they would like their wives to put forth effort to that effect. Furthermore, most men will say that they will do whatever it takes to help their wives put forth that effort. This information was gathered from a survey and is not just my optinion.
I guess that I am always shocked that there is still the attitude of "I don't have to take care of myself anymore" after marriage.
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RE: Why does weight get the shaft? - 6/24/2009 1:17:59 PM
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doinkdom
Posts: 5526
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quote:
ORIGINAL: traddatz
I guess that I am always shocked that there is still the attitude of "I don't have to take care of myself anymore" after marriage.
I don't think that's the attitude around here at all. The problem is expecting our bodies not to change as we age or have children.
I will never look exactly the same as I did before having children. It shows in a shift of weight (gain or loss) and how our bodies behave internally.
These bodies are not meant to remain in status. They're organic and will change for many reasons...weight gain is only one area.
I think the issue is a superficial one for a few people and for others it's a genuine health concern.
_____________________________
Rest assured, dear friends, that where your pleasure is, there your heart is.
- Charles Spurgeon
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RE: Why does weight get the shaft? - 6/24/2009 1:48:46 PM
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traddatz
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quote:
ORIGINAL: doinkdom
quote:
ORIGINAL: traddatz
I guess that I am always shocked that there is still the attitude of "I don't have to take care of myself anymore" after marriage.
I don't think that's the attitude around here at all. The problem is expecting our bodies not to change as we age or have children.
I will never look exactly the same as I did before having children. It shows in a shift of weight (gain or loss) and how our bodies behave internally.
These bodies are not meant to remain in status. They're organic and will change for many reasons...weight gain is only one area.
I think the issue is a superficial one for a few people and for others it's a genuine health concern.
I agree that the issue is superficial for a few people and for others it's a health concern. With that said, there are alot of people who do not put forth the effort to look good for their mate. Generally we tried hard to look good and attract a mate when we were single, but after we are married we stop trying.
Then after we stop trying and our spouse says something about the weight gain, we justify our non-effort by saying "you should love me no matter what I look like". To me it seems like a cop-out for not putting for any effort and that seems unfair.
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RE: Why does weight get the shaft? - 6/24/2009 1:54:32 PM
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doinkdom
Posts: 5526
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quote:
ORIGINAL: traddatz
Then after we stop trying and our spouse says something about the weight gain, we justify our non-effort by saying "you should love me no matter what I look like". To me it seems like a cop-out for not putting for any effort and that seems unfair.
That's assuming a whole lot about people in these forums.
IMO...and what I do is focus more on being what God would have me be and a lot less on what God would have my husband be. That goes for all areas - roles, weight, exercise, gum chewing, etc.
_____________________________
Rest assured, dear friends, that where your pleasure is, there your heart is.
- Charles Spurgeon
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RE: Why does weight get the shaft? - 6/24/2009 2:04:40 PM
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Hislittleone
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I agree with Doinkdom. The prevailing opinions here seem to be it's important to look good for your spouse but we also have to take things into consideration like pregnancy, aging, disease, etc. Like she said (I like the way you worded it Doink  ), "our bodies are organic and will change".
I also agree with focusing more on improving ourselves rather than our spouses with the exception being an unhealthy marriage. If there are serious issues within the relationship then a person does need to address the need for change whether it be in themselves or their spouse. (And by *serious* issues I mean stuff like adultery or abuse.)
_____________________________
Galations 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
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RE: Why does weight get the shaft? - 6/24/2009 2:13:14 PM
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traddatz
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quote:
ORIGINAL: doinkdom
quote:
ORIGINAL: traddatz
Then after we stop trying and our spouse says something about the weight gain, we justify our non-effort by saying "you should love me no matter what I look like". To me it seems like a cop-out for not putting for any effort and that seems unfair.
That's assuming a whole lot about people in these forums.
IMO...and what I do is focus more on being what God would have me be and a lot less on what God would have my husband be. That goes for all areas - roles, weight, exercise, gum chewing, etc.
I agree, we should focus on what God wants us to be.
I think you will agree that God wants us to (1) love God first and (2) love our neighbor as ourself. Since our spouse can be considered our closest neighbor, we should spend time loving our spouse in a way that honors God.
As far as the weight issue (and this is the forum for that specific issue), I feel that it really is about honoring God with the choices that we make and how we treat our bodies. Our spouses sometimes take the brunt of the attitude when they bring up the issue.
If you would like, I could give some reasons and a longer explaination about why I feel that way.
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RE: Why does weight get the shaft? - 6/24/2009 2:20:15 PM
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Hislittleone
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I personally think it's very important to take care of one's self before and after marriage. So *I* make sure that *I* always look nicely groomed when going out. *I* like to fix my hair, wear make-up, keep my nails trimmed/clean/filed, make sure I smell good/clean, wear nice clothes (mostly casual...but nice), exercise, and eat healthy. *I* do those things because *I* enjoy them and because *I* think it's important for both me and my spouse. But that's *me*. I don't put that much time/energy/effort into what my spouse looks like.
While I might say something to my husband if he's wearing a color I don't like or something that has holes in it or if he wasn't practicing good hygiene (i.e. regular showers, deoderant, teeth brushing, brushing hair etc.) but those things are more superficial (not sure if that's the right word) and more easily changed. Someone said it better than I earlier in this thread. I'll have to go back and find it....
_____________________________
Galations 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
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RE: Why does weight get the shaft? - 6/24/2009 2:41:27 PM
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traddatz
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In response to Hislittleone, I agree with you that taking care of oneself is very important.
I am a little baffled in the response that I am getting that make me feel that I should never ask my spouse to take care of herself. Almost as if that would make me superficial. I care about my body, my looks, and how I am presented to others and do not feel that it's wrong to ask my spouse to take care of herself. Sometimes God uses spouses to make us more like him or to correct a sinful behaviour as long as the correcting is done in love.
As far as brushing teeth, showing, and general hygiene, I don't feel that kind of stuff is superficial at all. the person that did not practice those things would be very offensive to most of the population, not to mention their spouse (however, if someone did not do those things, they probably would not be married).
So, here are my reasons that one should take care of themself.
1. It honors God. He gave me my body and I should not abuse it by over eating and being generally lazy about general fitness.
2. It honors your spouse. When I take care of my body, it tells my spouse that I care for her. Conversly, how much does my spouse care for me when my spouse does not even care for her own body.
3. It give a good Christian testamony. This one if mostly for how men see women, but it can go both ways. When I don't care for my body, and become sloppy, a young person who is looking at Christianty may say, "that is what a Christian person who is married looks like (a little overweight) , then why would I want to marry a Christian."
Bottom line it that it's important to care for one's body, and not for the three quick reason that I gave.
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RE: Why does weight get the shaft? - 6/24/2009 2:44:46 PM
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doinkdom
Posts: 5526
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: The higher lowcountry
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quote:
ORIGINAL: traddatz
If you would like, I could give some reasons and a longer explaination about why I feel that way.
nah, that's ok...if it works for you and your marriage is all that really matters.
_____________________________
Rest assured, dear friends, that where your pleasure is, there your heart is.
- Charles Spurgeon
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RE: Why does weight get the shaft? - 6/26/2009 12:43:53 PM
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traddatz
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Belle_Texas
quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
quote:
ORIGINAL: truthrevealed
quote:
Who decided that thin is beautiful?
Good question! I don't recall the OP suggesting that we should be thin for our partners, nor the 2 or 3 people who understand his POV 
His POV is that if you're fat, starve yourself or get surgery. He's repeated himself several times, burying his own "OP" in which he asked a hypothetical question.
Morbidly obese in danger of death is one thing; not being eye candy is another. All these threads by men are just indications that they are perpetuating secular culture, not an indication that they look beyond the shell of a woman at their sister in Christ or a potential future mate.
quote:
Praise the Lord that all men aren't so shallow or there would be an awful lot of women out there with eating disorders in an attempt to be "thin enough" to find a spouse.
There are millions of women trying to be "thin enough" and some of them are right here on these boards. It's heart-breaking.
I so agree with this post Stellaluna...and worst part is that many Christian men are this way. Ive met less shallow secular men that aren't so rigid in their standards of what "they think" women should look like. Shouldn't this be the other way around? Shouldn't Christian men want Godly women with a heart that loves the Lord??? Shouldn't that be their priority?? I don't get it. 
In writing this post, I am hoping to shed some light on the subject from a Christian man's point of view.
There are a lot of things here that I could possibly comment on. I feel that I am a strong Christian man who loves the Lord and I do have an opinion on the subject. Also, I speak for many men on this subject when I say that what a good Christian man wants is a women who is willing to try for her husband. As a matter of point, it bothers me when women do not understand that men are visual. This means that the outside matters to men. It's what attracts us to women in the first place.
There is a book (For Women Only)that explains it better then I can and may be of some help to women in understanding how men think, especially with this subject. In this book, many men were interviewed and gave an opinion on what they wanted from their wives. In that book, Chapter 8 explains why weight matter to men. It also talks about some hidden and not so obvious reasons of why it matters on this very sensitive subject.
As far as what a man's priority in a women should be, a heart that loves the Lord is extremely important and cannot be understated, but neglecting other aspects of her life in pursuit of that (such as neglecting her husband) would not make her good wife material. Just as a Husband who loves the Lord should be important for a wife, but would not be enough if he did not have the motivation to get a job and support his family.
I think that if you talk with most Christian men and have an honest discussion, you will find that they understand that no wife will be able to keep a perfect body for all of their life. That is not what they are asking for. They are asking for effort to look good for them, and most would do anything to help their wives do the best they can in this area.
As a note, I do not think that a woman should starve herself at all. This is not the spirt of this post either, so please don't take it that way.
I hope this helps you with a window into men's mind.
Also, please check post 213 for my reasons a person should take care of one's self. Honoring God is the number one reason.
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RE: Why does weight get the shaft? - 6/26/2009 1:15:23 PM
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Corne
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The same God that "designed men to be visual" designed women to have hormones that favor fat storage.
How about some scripture that supports the idea that women are especially obligated to be eye pleasing, or that say being eye pleasing honors God. If you're going to say it's about honoring God, you should be able to support it with scripture.
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RE: Why does weight get the shaft? - 6/26/2009 2:36:44 PM
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traddatz
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
The same God that "designed men to be visual" designed women to have hormones that favor fat storage.
How about some scripture that supports the idea that women are especially obligated to be eye pleasing, or that say being eye pleasing honors God. If you're going to say it's about honoring God, you should be able to support it with scripture.
I don't feel that all women are especially obligated to be eye candy. For me to look and lust at another woman is a sin. I don't believe that is what I said at all and I appologize if it it came accross that way. I do feel that it's important to take care of one's self and to try to please one's spouse (within reason).
As far as honoring God, he gave us the gift of this body and we are not to abuse it. For me it's about honoring God, but not only about honoring God. (I do understand however that taking care of my body can also become a sin if that's all I focus on, but that is not the spirit in which I am talking about).
Gluttony would be the sin we are talking about when a person is overweight. As far as how much a person is overweight before it becomes gluttony is debate-able.
The scriptures supporting my opinion are as follows with the web site that I pulled this information from.
Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags.” Proverbs 28:7 declares, “He who keeps the law is a discerning son, but a companion of gluttons disgraces his father.” Proverbs 23:2 proclaims, “Put a knife to your throat if you are given to gluttony.”
http://www.gotquestions.org/gluttony-sin.html
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RE: Why does weight get the shaft? - 6/26/2009 2:58:22 PM
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Hislittleone
Posts: 687
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quote:
traddatz: The scriptures supporting my opinion are as follows with the web site that I pulled this information from.
Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, “Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags.” Proverbs 28:7 declares, “He who keeps the law is a discerning son, but a companion of gluttons disgraces his father.” Proverbs 23:2 proclaims, “Put a knife to your throat if you are given to gluttony.”
Those scriptures address gluttony not weight or outward appearance. Skinny people can be glutonous as large people and even more so sometimes. The outward appearance of weight doesn't always indicate that a person is a glutton. Some weight is caused by gluttony but not always. I don't think those verses support your position very well. IMO they are addressing an attitude of the heart, not the outward appearance.
A lot of weight on a person could indicate a past sin of gluttony as in someone ate too much for a while but then started eating more healthy but are unable to lose the weight they gained. Should we judge people for sins in their past that they have repented of? No.
Then there are the people who struggle with maintaining a "healthy" weight their entire lives because they are simply created to carry more weight. It's sometimes a matter of genes and no matter what that person does they won't ever be able to maintian a "healthy" weight. At least that's the way I understand the physiology of it all......
_____________________________
Galations 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
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RE: Why does weight get the shaft? - 6/26/2009 3:37:44 PM
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Corne
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Yeah, sorry, but gluttony in the bible is about rebellion and riotous behavior, not about eating more calories than is scientifically ideal.
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RE: Why does weight get the shaft? - 6/26/2009 4:09:09 PM
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traddatz
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Please understand, this is for most people. I think that there are people who are genetically disposed to carry more weight than others who are "skinny". And I don't want to forget those who have a medical issue that may contribute to being larger. I am not talking about the small amount of people who have a real issue and cannot lose weight.
Also, if a person is trying to lose weight from a past sin of gluttony, then my hat's off to them. I do have to say that past sins may come back to haunt us or plague us. The results of some sins can be even more devistating than a little extra weight. Adultry comes to mind.
I see people every day who are working hard to treat their bodies well. I also know of people who would not look to be in any kind of athletic shape and are quite fit, so I don't try to figure it out.
But back to gluttony. I think that the outward appearance does apply to most people when talking about gluttony. It's the most obvious sign when determining that specific sin. So when it's said that the verses in Proverbs does not support being overweight as gluttony, I don't agree. And honestly I have to say that it becomes very plain when looking at other countries that we, America, are simply not taking care of ourselves and making excuses for it.
So what am I saying.
1- We all should try to do our best to be healthy.
2 -This will take a tremendous amount of work in some cases, but I think that in most cases it will take just a moderate amount of effort each week to maintain a healthy lifestyle. In my case, it takes hours of effort each week to maintain a healthy body.
3 - As a man, it's important for my wife to put forth effort in this area (effort for me is far more important than results). It is profoundly important to me that my wife puts forth effort in this area. Not sure why, but I don't think that shallow-ness can explain it. I referred to a book in a earlier post (for women only) and I think that my thoughts are shared by alot of good Christian men.
4 -It's sad to me that Christian men are expected to not have the same needs as non Christian men when it comes to this area. We seem to be beat down because we express our desires and wants. Women will often say that a good Christian man should not be concerned with things like weight or image.
I am not sure how point three or four will be well taken or if it will be taken as a honest answer to a question from an earlier post, but hopefully an insight can be gained by some women who wonder how they can understand "why a guy thinks like he does".
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RE: Why does weight get the shaft? - 6/26/2009 4:13:21 PM
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p31mom
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Is there a double standard?
Yes, In general, I believe women are more sensitive regarding weight criticism than men. I believe this is due to another more powerful double standard. In general, men are valued for what they have accomplished and women are valued for what they look like. This is cultual and anti Biblical, but many people fall into these thought patterns.
So, when women hear criticisms about their bodies, they take it much more personally because it is a self esteem issue. Women are also more sensitive to criticisms regarding hair styles and clothing for the same reason.
To make matters worse:
The standard of beauty today is very difficult for women to achieve. For most women it is not a natural body shape and requires a great deal of effort. In other periods in out history women were valued for their very curvy frames and I don't mean Catherine Zeta Jones curvy.
I once saw a vintage ad for an elixer to help women gain weight. The before picture looked like a Marilyn Monroe. The after picture had a woman with large thighs, huge breasts, chubby arms and 2 fat rolls on the stomach. I have looked everywhere for an image to post but I have not found it yet. I'll keep looking. It is eye opening to do a search for images of standards of beauty throughout time. It is worth the effort for anyone interested.
Women should be able to eat 3 normal, cultually appropriate meals with their family and have an exercise program that includes daily tasks of chasing and playing with children, gardening, family walks and bike rides etc. and still be considered attractive weight wise. I really think that this has to be God's design. Did he design us to spend hours in a gym or worrying about every calorie that goes into our mouths?
No one should be a glutton, but most women hold plenty of padding without being anywhere close to gluttonous.
Satan's meddling:
I am convinced that the shift in our culture towards this unrealistic standard of beauty is one of Satan's many attempts to get the church off course and distracted. So many Christian women today are spending so much time and energy trying to meet these cultural standards in an attempt to be good wives when that time could be better spent reaching the lost for Christ. (I am sure that men fall prey to this too)
I am completely guilty of this myself.
So what to do?
We have to train ourselves to see things the way God sees them. We have to constantly be in prayer to see what is beautiful in His eyes... We need to ask what is the best way to use our time? What should be our priorities?
Just my thoughts....
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RE: Why does weight get the shaft? - 6/26/2009 4:18:12 PM
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traddatz
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Harvie
quote:
ORIGINAL: traddatz
Proverbs 23:2 proclaims, “Put a knife to your throat if you are given to gluttony.”
Are you advocating this?
Not at all.
I do think that it speaks to the fact that we should do everying possible to not sin. I think it tells us in Acts, maybe Hebrews, that we should resist sinning to the point of drawing blood. Kind of makes you think on the fact that God does not want us to sin, even a little bit, and wants us to make no provision for it in our lives.
Besides, every sin we we sin (is that proper english?) is one more sin that Jesus had to pay for. Sobering to think about.
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