Self Denial.. (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Theology] >> Morality & Ethics



Message

hisguy66 -> Self Denial.. (5/29/2009 10:39:18 PM)

I once knew this lady who was a Christian. She was nice,and all but it seemed that she carried "self denial" to an extreme. She would not partake in like watching the Superbowl,and her apartment when I picked up my sister once seemed kinda blah. No pictures or anything cheery. Just a table and,a sofa. When does "self denial" in a sense takes out all that G-d has blessed us with to bring us enjoyment?



LCannon -> RE: Self Denial.. (5/29/2009 11:40:48 PM)

There's no accounting for decorating taste, her's or your's. I don't really like the Superbowl either and it's not 'self denial'. I just can't waste four hours of my life especially since the game is usually decided by halftime. Choice of activity is purely up to the individual and I wouldn't judge her denial as I wouldn't judge my freedom. Beside judging a single Christian so harshly on one issue is equally offensive as your freedom to license.

Romans 14:1-'The notion of[this gifting]isn’t to make distinctions in narrow judgments but to bring the gifts of faith together in obedience. 2 One’s judgment can eat all things in freedom yet some regard such freedom as weakness so the weak eat vegetables only. 3 Neither boldness or frailty are regarded with contempt since the action isn’t the obedience for God has accepted both of them. 4 What business is it of yours since it’s not your servant to order about? Is it not His Master’s responsibility whether he stands or falls for the Lord’s discipline will make him stand or fall.'



myhusbandswife76 -> RE: Self Denial.. (5/30/2009 3:28:53 AM)

How is not watching the Super Bowl "self denial"? I've watched the Super Bowl on occasion at a party, but I could trully care less. It has nothing to do with self denial, it's just that I don't like football.
If she isn't interested in much decoration, how is that self denial? Diffrent people have diffrent tastes, likes, dislikes etc. Some people are content with a little, or don't really have an emphasis on "stuff" while others are always on the lookout for ways to decorate, or spruse up their home. Diffrent strokes for diffrent folks.
I fail to see how either case has anything to do with "self denial".



Szaftoo -> RE: Self Denial.. (5/30/2009 10:07:43 AM)

She simply sounds like a woman who has minimal needs who doesn't need a lot to keep her happy and finds joy in other things. To each his own.



musicboss11 -> RE: Self Denial.. (5/30/2009 1:48:46 PM)

Not watch the superbowl? [sm=icon_smile_yikes.gif] Now that's just wrong! I'm sure there must be something in scripture about that! [8D]



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Self Denial.. (5/30/2009 9:22:56 PM)

This thread has helped me to make a very important decision. I believe that self-denial is a good thing; therefore, I have decided that it is just not right for me, as an individual, to watch the Superbowl, baseball, football, basket ball (especially), golf, bowling, or any such thing.

Oh, woe is me!

But . . .

I shall survive!

Oh.



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Self Denial.. (5/30/2009 9:25:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hisguy66

I once knew this lady who was a Christian. She was nice,and all but it seemed that she carried "self denial" to an extreme. She would not partake in like watching the Superbowl,and her apartment when I picked up my sister once seemed kinda blah. No pictures or anything cheery. Just a table and,a sofa. When does "self denial" in a sense takes out all that G-d has blessed us with to bring us enjoyment?

Now, to my response to your question, if this makes her happy, more power to her! [:)] But G-d also gave humor, music, artistic abilities, etc., and I wish to enjoy them.

What?

And talent for sports?

Sports are of the devil! [:D] [:D] [:D]



PopsiLufsJesus -> RE: Self Denial.. (5/30/2009 11:50:28 PM)

Sports can't be of the devil! I love them! :D

Abiyah! I miss you! PJ and I were talking about you on the phone last night. All good things of course...



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Self Denial.. (6/1/2009 3:33:32 PM)

PopsiLou!! Wow! I am glad to see your pretty face! I miss you!
I'll PM you!



saraimay75 -> RE: Self Denial.. (6/1/2009 6:30:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Szaftoo

She simply sounds like a woman who has minimal needs who doesn't need a lot to keep her happy and finds joy in other things. To each his own.

Exactly unless this woman has said "I would really love to decorate, watch the Superbowl...etc" Thingsg that she want to do bot won't then is does not seem like self-denial.



DaveW -> RE: Self Denial.. (6/5/2009 1:10:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hisguy66

I once knew this lady who was a Christian. She was nice,and all but it seemed that she carried "self denial" to an extreme. She would not partake in like watching the Superbowl,and her apartment when I picked up my sister once seemed kinda blah. No pictures or anything cheery. Just a table and,a sofa. When does "self denial" in a sense takes out all that G-d has blessed us with to bring us enjoyment?
There is at least one faith stream out there that says what you He has blessed us with is NOT from Him. Indeed they claim that human enjoyment of any kind is sinful. It is not limited to a denomination. I have found it in extreme Wesleyan Holiness, in Fundamentalist, in Pentecostalism and in extreme Calvinism.

I grew up with that mindset and at age 54 still struggle with it.



Bluethread -> RE: Self Denial.. (6/5/2009 2:03:17 PM)

We need to look at the whole verse to get an understanding of what this means.

Lu 9:23 "Then he said to them all: "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.""

We are also told to afflict ourselves on Yom Kippur. I don't think this means we are to flaggilate ourselves. It is important to understand the purpose of what we we are told to do. The point of Yom Kippur is anxious anticipation regarding whether our sins will be forgiven. Therefore the purpose in that case is to set distracting things aside so we can focus on the sinfulness of our community and the graciousness of Adonai.

The context in the verse in question is that we need to denigh ourselves for the purpose of serving others. That is we should not have things simply for our personal enjoyment, but should use them for the benefit of others. The fellowship offering is a good example of this in my opinion. We are making a sacrifice, however, that sacrifice is enjoyed by the recipient and the giver at the same time. Sharing what Adonai entrusts to us is one way to rightly receive personal benefit.



DaveW -> RE: Self Denial.. (6/5/2009 3:35:41 PM)

But that is not the only passages to this doctrine, although it is one of the most direct.

There is also this:

Luk 17:10 "So you too, when you do all the things which are commanded you, say, 'We are unworthy slaves; we have done only that which we ought to have done.'"

Php 2:4 do not [merely] look out for your own personal interests, but [also] for the interests of others.

1Jn 3:16 We know love by this, that He laid down His life for us; and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.


Heb 12:6 FOR THOSE WHOM THE LORD LOVES HE DISCIPLINES, AND HE SCOURGES EVERY SON WHOM HE RECEIVES."


All these speak to putting anothers happiness ahead of our own or God taking it away for dicipline.
So if you are happy, you must not be under God's dicipline and scourge (similar to a cat-o-nine tails)



Bluethread -> RE: Self Denial.. (6/5/2009 3:59:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaveW

All these speak to putting anothers happiness ahead of our own or God taking it away for dicipline.
So if you are happy, you must not be under God's dicipline and scourge (similar to a cat-o-nine tails)


Yes, we need to seek the whole council of Adonai. In many places we are called to rejoice and make our hearts light. So, whether I am happy or not is not relevant. Self denial is about what we do. How we choose to feel about it is another issue.



DaveW -> RE: Self Denial.. (6/8/2009 6:24:55 AM)

I had an interestng exchange back when I was in HS. I had a summer job in the kitchen at a church camp - run by a group that believed this way, even more rabbidly than my own back ground.

One day after dinner I was sitting on the dock looking over the lake and strumming my guitar, playing some joyous praise chorus ( we did have that stuff back then) and one of the counselors rebuked me for playing happy music. I responded "The Joy of the Lord is our strength."

To that he said "It is His joy, not ours. Have you never read 'It is better to mourn than rejoice?' "

Only recently did I come across a passage that could be misquoted into that phrase. The exchange was about 40 years ago.



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Self Denial.. (6/8/2009 3:20:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaveW
One day after dinner I was sitting on the dock looking over the lake and strumming my guitar, playing some joyous praise chorus ( we did have that stuff back then) and one of the counselors rebuked me for playing happy music.

Frightening. Wonder how many people that guy ran off.



DaveW -> RE: Self Denial.. (6/9/2009 6:22:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga

Frightening. Wonder how many people that guy ran off.
IDK. His attitude seemed fairly common in that denomination.



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Self Denial.. (6/9/2009 10:16:11 PM)

Wow. Some "believers" can be so mean. So critical. So holier-than-thou.

As they say (even though it is aggravating to either read it or hear it):
been there, done that.



doinkdom -> RE: Self Denial.. (6/10/2009 5:16:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaveW
There is at least one faith stream out there that says what you He has blessed us with is NOT from Him. Indeed they claim that human enjoyment of any kind is sinful. It is not limited to a denomination. I have found it in extreme Wesleyan Holiness, in Fundamentalist, in Pentecostalism and in extreme Calvinism.

I grew up with that mindset and at age 54 still struggle with it.


I know extreme Calvinism does that with any image of Jesus...from paintings to lamps to even crosses. The whole graven image deal run amock [sm=icon_smile_faint.gif] And then there's the meditating on how depraved we really are and that'll just about depress you big time.[8|]

I do think that we can get a little carried with all our "stuff," but that doesn't mean we go to the other extreme.



DaveW -> RE: Self Denial.. (6/11/2009 3:31:51 PM)

I am not sure Fundamentalist Baptists consider themselves "calvinists" or not. I have run into similar stuff from extreme pentecostal groups that have roots back into wesleyan holiness. Definately arminian. The church I grew up in believed you lost salvation every time you sinned and everyone sinned constatntly.



Reform_Dave -> RE: Self Denial.. (6/14/2009 12:40:57 PM)

I dont think that there are any two christians who are exactly the same. Some, like this woman (i am assuming), feel compelled to give up many of the worlds attachments because they wish to have fewer things come between themselves and God and feel a greater sense of freedom away from those things. Others do the same out of some monkish desire to deny the flesh, which never ends up good. And yet others can follow more "worldly pursuits" (for lack of a better term) like sports, in balance, without them taking The Lords rightful place of supremacy. I myself have found great freedom in giving up many of the things i used to participate in, but i would be wrong to insist others do like i have. Having said all that i would just like to say, GO BRONCOS!.



myhusbandswife76 -> RE: Self Denial.. (6/14/2009 1:22:06 PM)

Or maybe she just dosen't like football, and lots of decoration. Maybe it has nothing to do with being spiritual but just simple taste, and style.



Reform_Dave -> RE: Self Denial.. (6/14/2009 1:27:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: myhusbandswife76

Or maybe she just dosen't like football, and lots of decoration. Maybe it has nothing to do with being spiritual but just simple taste, and style.

You are probably right, the simplest explanation is usually the right one.



mamajennleigh -> RE: Self Denial.. (6/29/2009 4:48:40 PM)

quote:

The church I grew up in believed you lost salvation every time you sinned and everyone sinned constatntly.


I grew up in a church just like this, and when I was a young child, I gave up on being "saved" since I couldn't go a day without sinning and I felt like God was going to give up on me since I was so awful and kept "backsliding".

As to the OP, I think that some people believe that they must give up things in order to be closer to God. Maybe that is true for this particular woman, who knows?



DaveW -> RE: Self Denial.. (7/1/2009 7:03:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mamajennleigh
quote:

The church I grew up in believed you lost salvation every time you sinned and everyone sinned constatntly.
I grew up in a church just like this, and when I was a young child, I gave up on being "saved" since I couldn't go a day without sinning and I felt like God was going to give up on me since I was so awful and kept "backsliding".
Go a day??? You should be so lucky.

Our congregation taught that you had already lost it between the time you were at the altar and when you walked out the door. "You have already committed 20 sins you know nothing about...." The pastor once quipped that he or someone else should have a gun to blow people away while still on their knees to ensure they went to heaven.



Page: [1] 2   next >   >>



Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.5 ANSI