Chapters and verses (Full Version)

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Prairiehiker -> Chapters and verses (6/5/2009 8:02:07 PM)

What are your opinions of the numbers to identify verses in the bible?
Do you think that the idea of numbering sentences was helpful or damaging?
How do you feel when verses are taken out of context and people make doctrines out of a handful of verses?
Is it good to study the scriptures book by book instead of pulling out certain verses from passages to support a claim or belief?
In your opinion and observation in the forum, what verses are so often quoted out of context?
Do you think it would be a good idea for the church to teach members how to study the scriptures?



GrahamCracker -> RE: Chapters and verses (6/5/2009 9:51:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prairiehiker

What are your opinions of the numbers to identify verses in the bible?
Do you think that the idea of numbering sentences was helpful or damaging?
How do you feel when verses are taken out of context and people make doctrines out of a handful of verses?
Is it good to study the scriptures book by book instead of pulling out certain verses from passages to support a claim or belief?
In your opinion and observation in the forum, what verses are so often quoted out of context?
Do you think it would be a good idea for the church to teach members how to study the scriptures?


Chapter and verse divisions are not inspired. Is that your question? Sometimes, verses and chapters occur in the middle of a thought. Some NT verses are rather lengthy in the original languages. We need to have some division of sentences in English so that we can convert the thoughts to standard English.

What is damaging is people who think taking chapter and verses as "holy and inspired." We should not. They should be considered in their original context.

My practice is to start with the immediate context and work outwardly from there. The verse itself in the midst of surrounding text, then the chapter and finally the book. It is important to consider the genre, whether or not it is a narrative, poetry or instruction. I will consider other books the same author has written. I will take it into context of the entire book. I will also consider other authors and whether or not they have addressed the doctrinal point also.

quote:

Do you think it would be a good idea for the church to teach members how to study the scriptures?


Yes, very important. However, peoples' reading and study skills differ. It is not easy to teach someone how to study in context if they do not have good study skills and if they do not have a good overall grasp of the Bible. I was taught to study, study and study the Bible everyday when I was young. But it took me some 20 years to grasp some books.

I have noticed some people have a very poor grasp of English grammar and are not properly self-disciplined in English but they are trying to persuade others that they have a good grasp of Greek and Hebrew. I can only say that's total nonsense. I would suggest that if they cannot read and write a coherent English sentence, then they should not try to persuade me that they understand the Bible much less Greek and Hebrew.



colliefan -> RE: Chapters and verses (6/5/2009 10:36:42 PM)

What are your opinions of the numbers to identify verses in the bible?
Do you think that the idea of numbering sentences was helpful or damaging?

Verse numbers helps in locating a particular thought. Sometimes the divisions help sometimes they hurt

How do you feel when verses are taken out of context and people make doctrines out of a handful of verses?

see WOF thread

Is it good to study the scriptures book by book instead of pulling out certain verses from passages to support a claim or belief?

Depends if one is doing a book or topic study. If one is doing a topic study always take verses in context

In your opinion and observation in the forum, what verses are so often quoted out of context?

Isaiah 53

Do you think it would be a good idea for the church to teach members how to study the scriptures?


2 Tim 2:14 - 16 (ESV) 14Remind them of these things, and charge them before God£ not to quarrel about words, which does no good, but only ruins the hearers. 15Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved,£ a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth. 16But avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness,



ironsharpensiron -> RE: Chapters and verses (6/6/2009 3:43:10 PM)

I do not remember the name of the Bible, but many years ago I came across one that had no verse #'s or chapters. It read just like a book. Sorry I can't remember what it was called...I do remember it was made by a man who translated it from the original Hebrew and Greek.

Matthew



colliefan -> RE: Chapters and verses (6/6/2009 11:27:47 PM)

One needs to keep in mind the epistles were read en toto to the congregation. Can you imagine what it would of been like to ne a member of the church at Rome and to hear that letter read to you? Don't think they had fill-in-the-blank sermon notes.



grannynancyg -> RE: Chapters and verses (6/11/2009 8:06:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ironsharpensiron

I do not remember the name of the Bible, but many years ago I came across one that had no verse #'s or chapters. It read just like a book. Sorry I can't remember what it was called...I do remember it was made by a man who translated it from the original Hebrew and Greek.

Matthew

That was Eugene Peterson's "The Message". I found it quite enjoyable to actually read the Bible as a book without interrupptions to thoughts. Some have questioned it's doctrinal value as of course Mr. Peterson, in paraphrasing may have been biased by his own beliefs. I found very little to disagree with as he wrote it as a translation from Greek. Mr. Peterson was a pastor in Ellicott City, Maryland for many years.

I find that for studying the Bible those versions that have chapters and verses numbered make it easier to find individual verses, though. In fact later printings of "The Message" have the chapters and verses numbered.



DaveW -> RE: Chapters and verses (6/12/2009 10:14:34 AM)

What are your opinions of the numbers to identify verses in the bible?
Do you think that the idea of numbering sentences was helpful or damaging?

They are a mixed blessing. The numbering of chapter and verse is extremely helpful in finding passages quickly. However, it artificially divides ideas at times that should be kept together.

How do you feel when verses are taken out of context and people make doctrines out of a handful of verses?

Very dangerous practice. Even to leave out the context of the cultural understanding of the original audience is dangerous.

Is it good to study the scriptures book by book instead of pulling out certain verses from passages to support a claim or belief?

There are many good styles of bible study and one should not limit themselves to only one or 2. Exegetical, where you go sentance by sentance, paragraph by paragraph thru an entire book is very beneficial. But topical studies are needed as well to find out ALL of what is said in the bible on a given subject. They balance each other.

Do you think it would be a good idea for the church to teach members how to study the scriptures?

IMO, they are negligent at best and intentionally deceptive at worst if they do not. The function of congregational leadership is this: to equip the congregants for the work of service. To not teach someone to properly study the Word (even in the original languages) seriously impedes that function.



rcjames -> RE: Chapters and verses (6/13/2009 10:40:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaveW

What are your opinions of the numbers to identify verses in the bible?
Do you think that the idea of numbering sentences was helpful or damaging?

They are a mixed blessing. The numbering of chapter and verse is extremely helpful in finding passages quickly. However, it artificially divides ideas at times that should be kept together.

How do you feel when verses are taken out of context and people make doctrines out of a handful of verses?

Very dangerous practice. Even to leave out the context of the cultural understanding of the original audience is dangerous.

Is it good to study the scriptures book by book instead of pulling out certain verses from passages to support a claim or belief?

There are many good styles of bible study and one should not limit themselves to only one or 2. Exegetical, where you go sentance by sentance, paragraph by paragraph thru an entire book is very beneficial. But topical studies are needed as well to find out ALL of what is said in the bible on a given subject. They balance each other.

Do you think it would be a good idea for the church to teach members how to study the scriptures?

IMO, they are negligent at best and intentionally deceptive at worst if they do not. The function of congregational leadership is this: to equip the congregants for the work of service. To not teach someone to properly study the Word (even in the original languages) seriously impedes that function.


Great post DaveW.

I think the chapter and verse breaks are a great aid, but also can be a problem. In Paul's writings specifically, he wrote great long multi-compounded sentences, and breaking them up can change what I might feel is the intended meaning of the verses.

There are also some chapter breaks that are right in the middle of a thought that the writers are trying to convey.

There is not a week goes by that I do not give instruction to my folks about reading the Scripture, and using some of the wonderful aids that are available.

I will give a high five to technology in that when I first started my indepth study of Scriopturs over 50 years ago; I acquired a really large pile of Bible versions, dictionaries, concordances, etc. etc. etc. and now they are all on one really small flash drive I can carry in my billfold.

Thanks
RC



dwtramm -> RE: Chapters and verses (6/13/2009 11:48:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ironsharpensiron

I do not remember the name of the Bible, but many years ago I came across one that had no verse #'s or chapters. It read just like a book. Sorry I can't remember what it was called...I do remember it was made by a man who translated it from the original Hebrew and Greek.

Matthew


The TNIV has a Bible out without the chapter and book divisions. It is entitled "The books of the Bible." I haven't seen it in stores. I bought mine online.

The best benefit of the chapter and verse divisions is things are much easier to find, but sometimes the divisions do separate a sentence or thought.



makarizo -> RE: Chapters and verses (6/14/2009 6:46:22 AM)

quote:

Do you think it would be a good idea for the church to teach members how to study the scriptures?


I spent a lot of years doing this at the church I grew up in. one year when I was teaching 7th grade, by they end of the year more than 15 adults attended the class.


I don't know which verse is taken out of context the most, ..... maybe Mt 5,6 &7


if modern bibles didn't have chapters and verses, I probably would have put them in myself.



rawr.ben -> RE: Chapters and verses (6/14/2009 7:47:45 PM)

I try hard to read Scripture by sections to keep things in their context, so often, my readings begin and end part way through chapters.



CitationSquirrel -> RE: Chapters and verses (6/16/2009 12:32:41 PM)

This may be an old wive's tale (no offense to any old wives out there), but I thought I heard once that the verse numbers were inserted by a monk as he road from town to town on his mule. (I should probably research it before posting, but I'm feeling a little lazy today.)

Anyway, like everyone has said it is mainly for reference purposes. When I read a passage I always find myself going back and looking for sentence breaks in order to re-read the whole sentence in order to get full thought or idea.



drfuss -> RE: Chapters and verses (6/16/2009 12:44:35 PM)

quote:

This may be an old wive's tale (no offense to any old wives out there), but I thought I heard once that the verse numbers were inserted by a monk as he road from town to town on his mule. (I should probably research it before posting, but I'm feeling a little lazy today.)


drfuss: I also have heard that, but have no documentation to support it.



Row1 -> RE: Chapters and verses (6/30/2009 9:15:19 AM)

the numbers don't bother me - my eyes skip past them - except when people copy verses and post them HERE - then the numbering drives me crazy. You can't read the verses that people post because of interference from all of the numbers!



ta_mosquito -> RE: Chapters and verses (6/30/2009 9:59:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Row1

the numbers don't bother me - my eyes skip past them - except when people copy verses and post them HERE - then the numbering drives me crazy. You can't read the verses that people post because of interference from all of the numbers!


Not to mention when they leave letters in brackets straight from the copied text, which inadvertently turns part of the text bold or italic... [8D]



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