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RE: Christian VS Public - 6/30/2009 5:26:44 AM
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PixieSunBelle
Posts: 100
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Palyxandra
quote:
ORIGINAL: zoebob
quote:
no co-ed dormitories
And what's wrong with this.
Nothing at all. It was just one of the differences : )
this is where i disagree... true i don't think that their rooms should be next door or even in the building, however i think that a "common area" where they can hang out after dark or whatever...
When i visited Liberty, they were not allowed cell phones, the boys were to ring a buzzer and we NOT allowed even in the building at all. Even then, I found that absolutely appalling... however, at the time i had no bf and thought that no one was really going to ring my cell so those freedoms were a moot point... now i see how necessary even those simple freedoms are. I use my cell phone daily. If i cannot sleep, sometimes i call my bf or my other friend and we talk until i fall asleep... I think that is an important freedom for me to have. Also, they dictated what you could wear. If i had went there i would need to wake up 2 hours b4 class to make my hair presentable, wear real nice clothes and slacks and dresses... ugh in my small public school there were many days I chose sweatpants, pj pants, and mini skirts. Looking back I see how important it was for me to have those choices...
Now as for classes in my small public branch campus of a state school.
The easiness and hardness depended greatly on the professors. Some were ridiculously hard and others were far too easy. One example was of a cmlit class my bf and i took. we hardly ever showed up, but we knew when to come in and turn in our papers. We both got A's. There was no incentive to show up to hear her read from a book... no quizzes, no in class work, and no presentations. However that easy class I never had to concentrate hard on was important to me b/c I had other hard classes I devoted my time to. However, even the hard classes were supposedly "easier" compared to the classes at the main campus... except a select few professors.
However, in my area, the public schools are "dumbed down". The kids in there don't learn... so they go to college at the community or state branch campus....
However, i liked the smallness of my college. Everyone knew everyone and i had one on one with professors unlike University Park. I was able to receive math help from another student regularly.
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RE: Christian VS Public - 6/30/2009 7:19:11 AM
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zoebob
Posts: 7961
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: land of limbo
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quote:
this is where i disagree... true i don't think that their rooms should be next door or even in the building, however i think that a "common area" where they can hang out after dark or whatever...
That's still not a coed dorm. My college had single sex dorms. However, there was a common lounge area in each dorm where people could hang out from something like 8AM till 12 PM. The doors did lock overnight but all day and evening they were open. They even had "Open dorm" nights where one night a week members of the opposite sex could visit rooms but they had to sign in and room doors had to be open a certain amount. RA's made rounds every hour or something like that.
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RE: Christian VS Public - 6/30/2009 7:46:28 AM
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10SNE1?
Posts: 216
Joined: 4/19/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zoebob
quote:
this is where i disagree... true i don't think that their rooms should be next door or even in the building, however i think that a "common area" where they can hang out after dark or whatever...
That's still not a coed dorm. My college had single sex dorms. However, there was a common lounge area in each dorm where people could hang out from something like 8AM till 12 PM. The doors did lock overnight but all day and evening they were open. They even had "Open dorm" nights where one night a week members of the opposite sex could visit rooms but they had to sign in and room doors had to be open a certain amount. RA's made rounds every hour or something like that.
I'm really not trying to be snarky...I just don't get it. Why is this such a big deal to people?
My middle two kids lived in "co-ed" dorms their freshmen years. Men on one floor, women on the next and so on. No one shared a bathroom with members of the opposite sex etc.
How is this any different than say, staying in a hotel? Or an apartment building. My kids moved off campus after their freshmen years and there were young people of both genders living in apartments side by side.
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RE: Christian VS Public - 6/30/2009 10:37:41 PM
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PixieSunBelle
Posts: 100
Joined: 4/12/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zoebob
quote:
this is where i disagree... true i don't think that their rooms should be next door or even in the building, however i think that a "common area" where they can hang out after dark or whatever...
That's still not a coed dorm. My college had single sex dorms. However, there was a common lounge area in each dorm where people could hang out from something like 8AM till 12 PM. The doors did lock overnight but all day and evening they were open. They even had "Open dorm" nights where one night a week members of the opposite sex could visit rooms but they had to sign in and room doors had to be open a certain amount. RA's made rounds every hour or something like that.
idk the one i visited did have a one night where guys can visit for a certain amount of time. but like, in the one i visited no guys were even allowed in the building AT ALL. Like not even a common area in dorms... Looking back, i wouldn't want to go there now. By 18, you are considered an adult and so like i mean if they want to, they will still find a way to do things... idk thats just how i feel. I have a real problem with people dictating what I do. Like, I will wear what I want, I have my phone, and like if i want to I can go to my bf's house lol. I mean yes, i did have a strict dress code in HS but that was HS and most do have those and a job will have a uniform... but no i dont want to spend college dealing with that. idk i guess the strictness of HS really made me want a lax-ruled college haha.
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RE: Christian VS Public - 7/2/2009 11:27:31 AM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 2903
Joined: 10/12/2007
From: NYC by way of Chicago
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
My thought is that you should go to the best school for your area of study that you can afford...no matter what kind of school it is. I tend to lean more toward public schools, because you are slightly less likely to amass a huge amount of debt, but sometimes private schools have attractive aid packages that make them more financially feasible.
I went to a medium-sized (8,000-10,000) public university and got a great education. If my faith was ever questioned, I don't remember it. I truly believe that the idea of one's faith being "shaken" from liberal professors at public colleges and universities is largely overstated. And honestly, if I was convinced that I was getting the best education I could in computer science, or literature, or agriculture, or whatever...learning about evolution in a required biology class wouldn't bother me in the least. I just don't think things like that are worth getting worked up over.
Agreed 100%.
I would chime in that I was an engineering student/computer science student at a Big Ten school and about half the professors we had were actually Christian themselves! And few professors really went into religion at all. We simply didn't have enough time to cover everything from thermodynamics to Diffy Qs to the myriad CS courses to talk about it.
Things were a little different in the liberal arts/sciences courses. In Physics, things are relatively dry and boring; nobody is going to argue over what the electromagnetic constant is, but anthropology and history professors are more liable to teach from a certain viewpoint. They generally respected the viewpoints of others as long as such views were backed up by factual information.
If you're going for a hard science, engineering, or business degree, I heartily endorse a public or secular school. You're going to get the best education at a research university, and in an efficient program designed to teach you to be competent in your field, there won't be much discussion about politics or religion except for maybe one ethics class.
If you're going for a liberal arts or soft science degree, you may want to be a little more careful. Best to find a good compromise- like Notre Dame or Calvin. These are excellent schools that will try to avoid presenting a viewpoint biased against Christianity.
quote:
When i visited Liberty, they were not allowed cell phones, the boys were to ring a buzzer and we NOT allowed even in the building at all. Even then, I found that absolutely appalling... however, at the time i had no bf and thought that no one was really going to ring my cell so those freedoms were a moot point... now i see how necessary even those simple freedoms are. I use my cell phone daily. If i cannot sleep, sometimes i call my bf or my other friend and we talk until i fall asleep... I think that is an important freedom for me to have. Also, they dictated what you could wear. If i had went there i would need to wake up 2 hours b4 class to make my hair presentable, wear real nice clothes and slacks and dresses... ugh in my small public school there were many days I chose sweatpants, pj pants, and mini skirts. Looking back I see how important it was for me to have those choices...
Indeed. It appears that Liberty University exerts more control over their students' lives than most families do for their children.
They say that college can either be a wonderful four years, or it can be a four-year prison sentence. If I had gone to LU, it would have felt like a prison sentence. Going to class wearing sandals, shorts, and a T-shirt was really nice in college (wish I could do it at work.) Having a car and living in an apartment my Junior and Senior year was even better. Being able to get a strong engineering education and also grow in my understanding of the gospel on my own terms rather than that of the school's was probably the best.
Oh, and when I turned 21, I wanted to be able to go to a bar and watch Illini basketball games with friends. (The binge drinking scene on campus was unfortunate, but if Jesus showed up to a wedding with the best wine, my school should not prevent me from drinking outside of school property if it is reasonable, responsible, and legal.)
That said, I also have tremendous respect for anyone who can survive four years of LU or Bob Jones. It takes more discipline than it takes to survive the armed forces.
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RE: Christian VS Public - 7/2/2009 1:26:19 PM
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stateofgrace
Posts: 1582
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PixieSunBelle
this is where i disagree... true i don't think that their rooms should be next door or even in the building, however i think that a "common area" where they can hang out after dark or whatever...
When i visited Liberty, they were not allowed cell phones, the boys were to ring a buzzer and we NOT allowed even in the building at all. Even then, I found that absolutely appalling... however, at the time i had no bf and thought that no one was really going to ring my cell so those freedoms were a moot point... now i see how necessary even those simple freedoms are. I use my cell phone daily. If i cannot sleep, sometimes i call my bf or my other friend and we talk until i fall asleep... I think that is an important freedom for me to have. Also, they dictated what you could wear. If i had went there i would need to wake up 2 hours b4 class to make my hair presentable, wear real nice clothes and slacks and dresses... ugh in my small public school there were many days I chose sweatpants, pj pants, and mini skirts. Looking back I see how important it was for me to have those choices...
How long ago did you visit Liberty?
My daughter is going to be starting her sophomore year there in August.
Cell phones are not only allowed, but even encouraged. I don't know a student there who doesn't have a cell phone.
The dress code restrictions for girls are basically no shorts for classes and if they are wearing a skirt, it has to come to the top of the knee. They are allowed to wear jeans to class (and pretty much anywhere else). They are allowed to wear shorts outside of class. They are required to wear one piece swimsuits in the pools. That's pretty much it. When we visited prior to her attending (so this would have been Spring 2008) it struck me how much the students there looked like other college's students.
Yes, the dorms are gender-segregated most of the time (they do have occasional "open house" hours). There is a big student center on campus where students can socialize till 2am (otherwise the curfew is like midnight). And students take the opportunity to socialize together many other places off and on classes (a bunch of restaurants like Panera and Moes are almost adjacent to campus; the new B&N campus bookstore has a gigantic Starbucks).
Now, Bob Jones is a different matter. As I've said in other posts, I have a niece that has just graduated from there and one who is starting there in August (same immediate family). Bob Jones is a lot more restrictive than Liberty.
Liberty on music: just keep it "not lewd"
Bob Jones on music: classical and traditional Christian hymns only. Contemporary Christian Music is specifically prohibited along with jazz, rock, etc.
Liberty on tvs and dvd players: allowed
Bob Jones on tvs and dvd players: not allowed.
Liberty on movies: PG-13 or below is the official rule, most students I know follow this on campus but not necessarily when they are home
Bob Jones on movies: students are not allowed to go to movie theaters, and if viewing a video in a friend's home, it must be G rated.
Liberty on relationships and dating: PDA beyond a hug is not allowed; dating allowed
Bob Jones on dates: only with a chaperone and I think they have to be pre-authorized
Liberty on bible versions: different versions allowed
Bob Jones on bible versions: KJV only
Liberty on dress code (pretty much summed up girls above; I think guys have to wear a shirt with collar to class and hair has to be above the shoulders).
Bob Jones on dress code: guys have to wear dress shirt, tie, dress pants/neat casual pants in the morning; are allowed to wear collared casual shirts in the afternoon but still nice dress pants/casual pants. Jeans only allowed off campus and at sports events. Girls are required to wear tops with sleeves (unless a sweater, jacket, etc. is over a sleeveless top), must wear dresses/skirts to class (that come to at least the bottom of the knee). These last three are direct quotes from their web site: Necklines may come no lower than four fingers below the collarbone. All dresses, skirts, pants and shirts must be loose-fitting, having a minimum of three inches of ease at bust and hips. Jeans are only allowed in and between women’s residence halls and when participating in activities where the durability of the fabric is important, such as skiing and ice-skating. Shorts are only allowed inside residence halls.
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RE: Christian VS Public - 7/2/2009 10:44:35 PM
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bzirk
Posts: 1429
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Where the deer and antelope play
Status: offline
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I've gone to a public community college, huge public university and a small Christian college. They all had their advantages, but the most honest presentation of information was at the Christian college because for the first time I got all viewpoints on issues whether they were historical, scientific or philosophical -- unlike the public university where what was taught was more homogenized. If anyone is interested, Univ. of Tex was the public university.
I'm glad I attended all three schools though. The Christian college told me things that I felt had been omitted from my education in public school, and I am SO THANKFUL I had that experience. But going to school in a secular environment was good for me to test my faith. However, I'm glad I was grounded in my faith before I ever set foot in any classroom. If I hadn't been grounded or if I had not been a Christian, it would have indeed messed with my head in a way that would have been harmful.
Now my oldest has gone to a small public school and will soon be attending a very large public university. She knows that to really be educated she has to do a lot of reading and questioning on her own no matter where she goes to school. She also knows that it's vital that she test things against scripture and never swallow whole what someone tells her no matter who tells her (Christian or non-Christian), and it's scriptural for her to take this approach -- the Berean way I think it's called. LOL!
One thing I've done with my kids is to send them to a wonderful camp called Worldview Academy. The speakers there are great, and they have done a lot to encourage my kids to question what is truth and how do you know it's truth. If any of you want more information on this group, check here. This really came in handy when my oldest child's philosophy teacher got off on a tangent about the Dali Lama -- how he was not planning on reincarnating again. My daughter could not keep herself from asking how we know that the Dali Lama has ever reincarnated. The teacher gave a very non-scholarly answer of, "I have read some texts taht have evidence, and I'll get back to you on that." Yeah, uh, huh, it never happened. What my oldest concluded was that this same teacher put the screws to anything to do with Christianity and questioned the dog out of it -- which is okay because the Lord can handle it. But this intellectual hypocrisy was really noted by my daughter, and this is just one experience she's had where she asked good questions. It's all in the questions, my friends.
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bZirk
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RE: Christian VS Public - 7/3/2009 4:32:48 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 2903
Joined: 10/12/2007
From: NYC by way of Chicago
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bzirk
I've gone to a public community college, huge public university and a small Christian college. They all had their advantages, but the most honest presentation of information was at the Christian college because for the first time I got all viewpoints on issues whether they were historical, scientific or philosophical -- unlike the public university where what was taught was more homogenized. If anyone is interested, Univ. of Tex was the public university.
I'm glad I attended all three schools though. The Christian college told me things that I felt had been omitted from my education in public school, and I am SO THANKFUL I had that experience. But going to school in a secular environment was good for me to test my faith. However, I'm glad I was grounded in my faith before I ever set foot in any classroom. If I hadn't been grounded or if I had not been a Christian, it would have indeed messed with my head in a way that would have been harmful.
Out of curiosity, what was your major?
Mine was Comp. Sci. In most engineering and hard science degrees (as well as much of the time in business), the truth looks the same from all viewpoints, so there is rarely an opportunity for bias. I took only five or six liberal arts courses, and all of the teachers were tolerant of other viewpoints. About half of the teachers taught the courses from a neutral view; the other half did seem to have some bias one way or another.
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RE: Christian VS Public - 7/3/2009 9:41:03 PM
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bzirk
Posts: 1429
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Where the deer and antelope play
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
quote:
ORIGINAL: bzirk
I've gone to a public community college, huge public university and a small Christian college. They all had their advantages, but the most honest presentation of information was at the Christian college because for the first time I got all viewpoints on issues whether they were historical, scientific or philosophical -- unlike the public university where what was taught was more homogenized. If anyone is interested, Univ. of Tex was the public university.
I'm glad I attended all three schools though. The Christian college told me things that I felt had been omitted from my education in public school, and I am SO THANKFUL I had that experience. But going to school in a secular environment was good for me to test my faith. However, I'm glad I was grounded in my faith before I ever set foot in any classroom. If I hadn't been grounded or if I had not been a Christian, it would have indeed messed with my head in a way that would have been harmful.
Out of curiosity, what was your major?
Mine was Comp. Sci. In most engineering and hard science degrees (as well as much of the time in business), the truth looks the same from all viewpoints, so there is rarely an opportunity for bias. I took only five or six liberal arts courses, and all of the teachers were tolerant of other viewpoints. About half of the teachers taught the courses from a neutral view; the other half did seem to have some bias one way or another.
Double major: business (w/emphasis on econ) and history and several minors. LOL!
Granted, the business classes did not have the bias of the liberal arts classes.
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bZirk
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RE: Christian VS Public - 7/11/2009 11:10:34 AM
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PixieSunBelle
Posts: 100
Joined: 4/12/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stateofgrace
quote:
ORIGINAL: PixieSunBelle
this is where i disagree... true i don't think that their rooms should be next door or even in the building, however i think that a "common area" where they can hang out after dark or whatever...
When i visited Liberty, they were not allowed cell phones, the boys were to ring a buzzer and we NOT allowed even in the building at all. Even then, I found that absolutely appalling... however, at the time i had no bf and thought that no one was really going to ring my cell so those freedoms were a moot point... now i see how necessary even those simple freedoms are. I use my cell phone daily. If i cannot sleep, sometimes i call my bf or my other friend and we talk until i fall asleep... I think that is an important freedom for me to have. Also, they dictated what you could wear. If i had went there i would need to wake up 2 hours b4 class to make my hair presentable, wear real nice clothes and slacks and dresses... ugh in my small public school there were many days I chose sweatpants, pj pants, and mini skirts. Looking back I see how important it was for me to have those choices...
How long ago did you visit Liberty?
My daughter is going to be starting her sophomore year there in August.
Cell phones are not only allowed, but even encouraged. I don't know a student there who doesn't have a cell phone.
The dress code restrictions for girls are basically no shorts for classes and if they are wearing a skirt, it has to come to the top of the knee. They are allowed to wear jeans to class (and pretty much anywhere else). They are allowed to wear shorts outside of class. They are required to wear one piece swimsuits in the pools. That's pretty much it. When we visited prior to her attending (so this would have been Spring 2008) it struck me how much the students there looked like other college's students.
Yes, the dorms are gender-segregated most of the time (they do have occasional "open house" hours). There is a big student center on campus where students can socialize till 2am (otherwise the curfew is like midnight). And students take the opportunity to socialize together many other places off and on classes (a bunch of restaurants like Panera and Moes are almost adjacent to campus; the new B&N campus bookstore has a gigantic Starbucks).
Now, Bob Jones is a different matter. As I've said in other posts, I have a niece that has just graduated from there and one who is starting there in August (same immediate family). Bob Jones is a lot more restrictive than Liberty.
Liberty on music: just keep it "not lewd"
Bob Jones on music: classical and traditional Christian hymns only. Contemporary Christian Music is specifically prohibited along with jazz, rock, etc.
Liberty on tvs and dvd players: allowed
Bob Jones on tvs and dvd players: not allowed.
Liberty on movies: PG-13 or below is the official rule, most students I know follow this on campus but not necessarily when they are home
Bob Jones on movies: students are not allowed to go to movie theaters, and if viewing a video in a friend's home, it must be G rated.
Liberty on relationships and dating: PDA beyond a hug is not allowed; dating allowed
Bob Jones on dates: only with a chaperone and I think they have to be pre-authorized
Liberty on bible versions: different versions allowed
Bob Jones on bible versions: KJV only
Liberty on dress code (pretty much summed up girls above; I think guys have to wear a shirt with collar to class and hair has to be above the shoulders).
Bob Jones on dress code: guys have to wear dress shirt, tie, dress pants/neat casual pants in the morning; are allowed to wear collared casual shirts in the afternoon but still nice dress pants/casual pants. Jeans only allowed off campus and at sports events. Girls are required to wear tops with sleeves (unless a sweater, jacket, etc. is over a sleeveless top), must wear dresses/skirts to class (that come to at least the bottom of the knee). These last three are direct quotes from their web site: Necklines may come no lower than four fingers below the collarbone. All dresses, skirts, pants and shirts must be loose-fitting, having a minimum of three inches of ease at bust and hips. Jeans are only allowed in and between women’s residence halls and when participating in activities where the durability of the fabric is important, such as skiing and ice-skating. Shorts are only allowed inside residence halls.
hmmm.... i graduated in '04 so they were just starting to allow girls to wear slacks instead of just skirts. I visited i think in '02. It looks like they went through a lot of rule changing! I mean had i did choose LU back then with all of the rules.... i probably wouldn't have cared much then. I didn't do the things I do now, and I didn't care about them. I had not much use for a phone then, rarely did i see a movie that was rated R, and my musical tastes were mostly country and christian (i think that rule stayed the same though because they were allowed other music), however Japanese music is now inserted in my musical tastes. I have no idea what they artist is saying, but i just like the music.
but yeah i remember a girl there telling me they were not allowed their cell phones on campus back then.
Simply i ended up not going because I couldn't afford it. Going to EHCA, none of those rules seemed bad to me then. I was used to them lol. However, now I wouldn't want to be subjected to such rules.
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More discipline than the armed forces? Pshaw. 
The CHE still ranks us as undergraduate, and our national ranking is still high (for an undergrad university).
