Problems with "Christians"

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RevMick -> Problems with "Christians" (6/7/2009 1:27:46 AM)
Over the last few years I have heard the same recurring complaint, "some of the worst people that I deal with are self proclaimed Christians". This has bothered me greatly. I have taken notice that in several business dealings some of my worst experiences have been with people who are very open about attending "church" on Sunday. To be fair the remainder of my worst experiences ever have been with non-believers. What can we do to correct this?

SamsonUSA -> RE: Problems with "Christians" (6/7/2009 1:56:48 AM)
quote: What can we do to correct this? "We" cannot do anything to correct it. Only HE can. We don't need to be corrected, we need to be transformed. We can only pray asking God to change them from bragging about their church attendance to praising Him for His grace in transforming their hearts.

kisstheson -> RE: Problems with "Christians" (6/7/2009 2:33:49 AM)
You ain't seen nothin' yet. better keep you eyes on Jesus cause maybe you have some blind spots too. We all do.

richartrod -> RE: Problems with "Christians" (6/7/2009 3:17:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RevMick Over the last few years I have heard the same recurring complaint, "some of the worst people that I deal with are self proclaimed Christians". I have taken notice that in several business dealings some of my worst experiences have been with people who are very open about attending "church" on Sunday. RevMick: I believe one way this can be corrected is for our walk to match our talk. There are a lot of "self proclaimed Christians" who wear their faith on their sleeve and brag about going to church, but their actions don't look anything like the transformed life Jesus promises through the Holy Spirit dwelling within us. There is also a lot of "cultural Christianity" in the sense that we think we are saved if we don't drink, smoke, chew, dance, vote Democratic, attend public schools, etc. (Ironically, one of the greatest defenders of the faith, C.S. Lewis, smoked a pipe and enjoyed his occasional brandy.) I at times am a believer who doesn't walk the talk: I struggle with sarcasm, holding grudges and codependent/enabling behavior, all of which I am in Celebrate Recovery for. All of us are guilty at one time or another of being a horrible witness as you've heard others complain about. We are all sinful human beings saved by God's grace, and we'll never be perfect this side of eternity. It's when we think we're on God's good side because we do all the good Christian things--and make the whole world notice how great we are--that we become those "self proclaimed Christians" that make the faith look bad. In Jesus' day, the Pharisees acted that very same way, and he wasn't impressed with their outward holiness. So it can only be corrected one person at a time, one witness at a time. Rich Rodriguez West Covina, CA www.pandapolis.com

mariamaria -> RE: Problems with "Christians" (6/7/2009 4:59:46 AM)
I was only just pondering over this myself yesterday..I have had it said on many occasions by different people that Christians are the most judgmental people that they have come across and instead of coming across as loving we come across as aggressive... I guess they don't understand that it's really tough for us to be this "Jesus" image that they think we should be, we are as human as they are but saying that didn't Jesus say that his people would be recognized by the fruits that we bare? I'm afraid we do stand out form others but not in a good way , so I have been told!

IwillseekHim -> RE: Problems with "Christians" (6/7/2009 7:44:43 AM)
The change comes from Him. We are called to pray for believer and nonbeliever so that is what I do. I hear all the time from people excuses as to why they don't attend church. One of them is the hypocritical ways of a christian they have witnessed. So what I do is pray for them. None of us are perfect even a christian. I also try to lead by an example. I allow God to search my heart and help me with my walk daily. I try not to judge, I am quickly reminded that I may have a few planks to pull out of my own eye! [;)]

mvic -> RE: Problems with "Christians" (6/7/2009 8:08:28 AM)
The clue is in the phrase "self proclaimed Christian". "Not everyone who calls me 'Lord, Lord' will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but only those who do what my Father in Heaven wants them to do." Matthew 7:21

URForgiven -> RE: Problems with "Christians" (6/7/2009 9:08:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RevMick Over the last few years I have heard the same recurring complaint, "some of the worst people that I deal with are self proclaimed Christians". This has bothered me greatly. I have taken notice that in several business dealings some of my worst experiences have been with people who are very open about attending "church" on Sunday. To be fair the remainder of my worst experiences ever have been with non-believers. What can we do to correct this? Proclaim the truth. The churched unbeliever and the carnal Christian are no better than unbelievers. We, who know the Truth, are to go and make disciples. There are many who need and want to be discipled...the problem is that there are so few disciplers. Peace

Nick_Drake -> RE: Problems with "Christians" (6/7/2009 10:14:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RevMick Over the last few years I have heard the same recurring complaint, "some of the worst people that I deal with are self proclaimed Christians". This has bothered me greatly. I have taken notice that in several business dealings some of my worst experiences have been with people who are very open about attending "church" on Sunday. To be fair the remainder of my worst experiences ever have been with non-believers. What can we do to correct this? Raise the bar of christianity and start teaching what real christian living looks like in order to make the genuine children of God even better and to chase away those who, when tested, really have no desire to pay the price of true discipleship. The numbers game the church plays is one of the biggest hinderances to a pure church. 'Get 'em in at any cost' and then train them up to turn around and bring in more, shallow, insincere, self-centered 'seekers' is a foolish and unspiritual mission statement for any church.

rcjames -> RE: Problems with "Christians" (6/7/2009 10:19:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nick_Drake Raise the bar of christianity and start teaching what real christian living looks like in order to make the genuine children of God even better and to chase away those who, when tested, really have no desire to pay the price of true discipleship. The numbers game the church plays is one of the biggest hinderances to a pure church. 'Get 'em in at any cost' and then train them up to turn around and bring in more, shallow, insincere, self-centered 'seekers' is a foolish and unspiritual mission statement for any church. Good post; and "Real" Christians should look like; (Rom 12:1,2) I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. Thanks RC

RustyCarr -> RE: Problems with "Christians" (6/7/2009 10:29:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: URForgiven quote: ORIGINAL: RevMick Over the last few years I have heard the same recurring complaint, "some of the worst people that I deal with are self proclaimed Christians". This has bothered me greatly. I have taken notice that in several business dealings some of my worst experiences have been with people who are very open about attending "church" on Sunday. To be fair the remainder of my worst experiences ever have been with non-believers. What can we do to correct this? Proclaim the truth. The churched unbeliever and the carnal Christian are no better than unbelievers. We, who know the Truth, are to go and make disciples. There are many who need and want to be discipled...the problem is that there are so few disciplers. Peace Boy, do I agree with this! Too few desciplers! And the weekly preaching in churches is shallow. It even tends to offend those TRUE seekers who want help and the Truth of God. If it doesn't offend the seekers, the preaching will lead them into the fluffy fog where the carnel Christians are stuck. Rusty

CherishedbyGod -> RE: Problems with "Christians" (6/7/2009 2:29:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RevMick Over the last few years I have heard the same recurring complaint, "some of the worst people that I deal with are self proclaimed Christians". This has bothered me greatly. What can we do to correct this? Let the Lord Jesus Christ live His life in and through us... Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Charity never faileth: 1Corinthians 13: 1-8a

EStan -> RE: Problems with "Christians" (6/7/2009 3:04:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RevMick Over the last few years I have heard the same recurring complaint, "some of the worst people that I deal with are self proclaimed Christians". This has bothered me greatly. I have taken notice that in several business dealings some of my worst experiences have been with people who are very open about attending "church" on Sunday. To be fair the remainder of my worst experiences ever have been with non-believers. What can we do to correct this? The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men�robbers, evildoers, adulterers�or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.' (Luke 18:11,12 NIV) ask 'em when they last read the Bible. Especially Matthew Ch 6.

URForgiven -> RE: Problems with "Christians" (6/7/2009 3:33:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CherishedbyGod quote: ORIGINAL: RevMick Over the last few years I have heard the same recurring complaint, "some of the worst people that I deal with are self proclaimed Christians". This has bothered me greatly. What can we do to correct this? Let the Lord Jesus Christ live His life in and through us... Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Charity never faileth: 1Corinthians 13: 1-8a [sm=thumbsup.gif] Two big thumbs up. [sm=thumbsup.gif] Peace

CherishedbyGod -> RE: Problems with "Christians" (6/7/2009 5:36:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: URForgiven quote: ORIGINAL: CherishedbyGod quote: ORIGINAL: RevMick Over the last few years I have heard the same recurring complaint, "some of the worst people that I deal with are self proclaimed Christians". This has bothered me greatly. What can we do to correct this? Let the Lord Jesus Christ live His life in and through us... Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Charity never faileth: 1Corinthians 13: 1-8a [sm=thumbsup.gif] Two big thumbs up. [sm=thumbsup.gif] Peace Wow! I rarely get one and you gave me two [:D] I am finally starting to come back to that in my own personal journey... Took me awhile [&:]

SonInMe1 -> RE: Problems with "Christians" (6/7/2009 10:47:55 PM)
Who are christians? Jesus didn't go to the righteous...He went to the sinner. Christians tend to be...the worst...and that worst? It doesn't disappear overnight. Not every christian is a mature one. Not every christian is a christian. No christian is perfect. Jesus summed up the Law ( all the do's and don't's of the bible ) as loving God and others. If our relationship with God is only about rules, Jewsus came and did nothing. Rules are followed when we submit our free will to that of God's will, through our love for Him, not by how much of a show we put on, the number of ministries we are seen doing or the amount of money we give. Its like...driving. Yep, that guy just made some stupid driving mistake...is that worthy of a rant against him? Nope, because you know...you have done the same thing...and the law of averages demands that such things are going to happen to you. If you make one driving mistake a month, and everyone around you does too, your gonna be a victim of stupidity often. Judgemental? Yes, us imperfect christians sure can be. Think about it. We have the Holy Spirit in us, revealing evil to us. We see evil and in our fraility, we make judgements. Anyone who says christian are sticking their heads in the sand and revel in excusim? They have never tried to follow the example of our Lord and Savior. When your walk is perfect, judge another's. As you judge, God will judge you. As you forgive, God will forgive you.

TMeeks -> RE: Problems with "Christians" (6/7/2009 11:25:23 PM)
This is going to sound like a very strange reply to your question. But, if you put a lot of thought into it, I hope it will make sense. We believers do not always let God change our brains. We filter God's message through the brain and neural processing networks that we had before becoming a Christian. So, while every Christian must have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, most of us Christians do not let the Holy Spirit use God's Word to completely restucture our thinking to bring all our neural processes into alignment with the person and purity of God. In other words we are shallow and the 'God' that we can wrap our minds around is too small to matter much to us. So, in our everyday walk, He doesn't. We listen to the same old brains that life shaped since our birth instead of taking the time to listen and have our brains renewed and rewired in the light of His Love and Grace. Years ago I was in video, both news and documentaries. One of the biggest mistakes a person can make when conducting interviews is to ask a question that might allow the person being interviewed to simply answer yes or no. The whole conversation comes to a screeching halt with a thud. We want probing questions that explore the depth of a subject and that can go off into many different rich directions. The same is true of our understanding of the Bible. There are certainly surface conclusions that are easily drawn. But, they might not be the end of the story. If we took just a little more time, we might dig deep enough to hit gold instead of iron. The Holy Spirit is in us to help us dig for gold.

PaPaRobert -> RE: Problems with "Christians" (6/8/2009 2:25:21 AM)
TMeeks Thank You. I don't know if it helps the original author, but your reply sure helps me. Not letting go of our old ways and letting the Holy Spirit totaly renew our minds, I think is a major problem with a lot of Christians. Self proclaimed or not.

leftwing -> RE: Problems with "Christians" (6/8/2009 7:22:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mariamaria ...Christians are the most judgmental people that they have come across and instead of coming across as loving we come across as aggressive... ...I'm afraid we do stand out form others but not in a good way , so I have been told! I have a friend who is an outstanding person. In my opinion he is as good a Christian as I've seen, with an exception or two. (not meaning to be judgemental, just to emphasize how good my friend is) Sometimes I'll get angry and say something a tad off color, or tell him a slightly dirty joke, and he NEVER judges me, never preaches to me; none of that. But, on the occasion I ask him a question about the bible or Jesus or something, that's when he lets me have it with both barrells. He catches me ready to receive a message and gives it to me. I appreciate him and hold him in very high regard.[sm=frenchsmile.gif]

ushalk -> RE: Problems with "Christians" (6/8/2009 10:28:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RevMick Over the last few years I have heard the same recurring complaint, "some of the worst people that I deal with are self proclaimed Christians". This has bothered me greatly. I have taken notice that in several business dealings some of my worst experiences have been with people who are very open about attending "church" on Sunday. To be fair the remainder of my worst experiences ever have been with non-believers. What can we do to correct this? first of all not everyone that proclaims to be christian actually know christ. as a matter of fact most people attend church every sunday and have knowledge of the bible or have knowledge of christ, but they do not know christ. thus many of these people walk around worried about being perfect in the ways of this world. yet they do not care about being perfect spiritually in their hearts or souls. if it looks good to man then i am alright. this making them very difficult to work for. believing that godly authority is being boosy with an attitude. if god had this same attitude we would not have a savior and we would have nothing to hope for or in.

RevMick -> RE: Problems with "Christians" (6/8/2009 2:10:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SonInMe1 Jesus summed up the Law ( all the do's and don't's of the bible ) as loving God and others. If our relationship with God is only about rules, Jewsus came and did nothing. Do you really believe that statement? The greatest gifts are faith, hope and love and the greatest is Love. Our relationship with God is based on love. His love for us as expressed in the sacrifice of His Son, Jesus. And in our love for God as expressed through our obedience to Him. Jesus did quite a bit for us. I sure hope that you can see that.

seagullplayer -> RE: Problems with "Christians" (6/8/2009 3:23:00 PM)
The only hypocrite I have control over is wearing my shoes. You know the best way to keep a hypocrite out of Church? Make sure you are in his seat every week... [:)]

TMeeks -> RE: Problems with "Christians" (6/8/2009 3:40:31 PM)
Thank you. :) quote: ORIGINAL: PaPaRobert TMeeks Thank You. I don't know if it helps the original author, but your reply sure helps me. Not letting go of our old ways and letting the Holy Spirit totaly renew our minds, I think is a major problem with a lot of Christians. Self proclaimed or not.

TMeeks -> RE: Problems with "Christians" (6/8/2009 3:55:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RustyCarr Boy, do I agree with this! Too few desciplers! And the weekly preaching in churches is shallow. It even tends to offend those TRUE seekers who want help and the Truth of God. If it doesn't offend the seekers, the preaching will lead them into the fluffy fog where the carnel Christians are stuck. Rusty But, it isn't just the 'seeker' churches. Shallowness infects every spectrum of the church. And, since I am a product of a Bible College, I'll pick that spectrum as an illustration. It becase apparent to me 40 years ago that students tended to gravitate toward certain verses and even ministries based entirely on their basic personality. Some were always looking for a good fight, be it theological or organizational. They tended to see God as a rule giver and their whole theology reflected that... even the way they witnessed. God is bigger than our personalities. But, we have trouble seeing the WHOLE of God's persona when it conflicts with our own. So, some verses are just quietly ignored by EVERY Christian.

jenny94702 -> RE: Problems with "Christians" (6/8/2009 3:59:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SonInMe1 Who are christians? Jesus didn't go to the righteous...He went to the sinner. Christians tend to be...the worst...and that worst? It doesn't disappear overnight. Not every christian is a mature one. Not every christian is a christian. No christian is perfect. Jesus summed up the Law ( all the do's and don't's of the bible ) as loving God and others. If our relationship with God is only about rules, Jewsus came and did nothing. Rules are followed when we submit our free will to that of God's will, through our love for Him, not by how much of a show we put on, the number of ministries we are seen doing or the amount of money we give. Its like...driving. Yep, that guy just made some stupid driving mistake...is that worthy of a rant against him? Nope, because you know...you have done the same thing...and the law of averages demands that such things are going to happen to you. If you make one driving mistake a month, and everyone around you does too, your gonna be a victim of stupidity often. Judgemental? Yes, us imperfect christians sure can be. Think about it. We have the Holy Spirit in us, revealing evil to us. We see evil and in our fraility, we make judgements. Anyone who says christian are sticking their heads in the sand and revel in excusim? They have never tried to follow the example of our Lord and Savior. When your walk is perfect, judge another's. As you judge, God will judge you. As you forgive, God will forgive you. I really appreciated this post. I think you really hit the nail on the head.

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