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RE: Jezebel spirit Real or Not - 6/11/2009 2:17:32 PM
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Eutychus
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Then there's James 1:14-16, that is addressed to believers:
But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust. Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death. Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren.
Not a lot of wiggle room there to blame things on demons for believers.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Jezebel spirit Real or Not - 6/11/2009 2:58:17 PM
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solarflare
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quote:
Not a lot of wiggle room there to blame things on demons for believers.
LOL! so one verse takes care of the whole thing for you then?
Yes, that is describing sin. But not demons...there are plenty of verses about those.
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RE: Jezebel spirit Real or Not - 6/11/2009 3:05:44 PM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solarflare
quote:
Not a lot of wiggle room there to blame things on demons for believers.
LOL! so one verse takes care of the whole thing for you then?
Yes, that is describing sin. But not demons...there are plenty of verses about those.
The fault of the sin lies on the individual sinning. Not on a demon.
Is God going to send a sinner to Hell or just his sins? Is God going to send the demons to Hell and not the person who committed them?
Sorry people... no scape goats here. No 'Pigs in the Parlor' lies.
You sin - you're responsible. No "the devil made me do it!!" excuses.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Jezebel spirit Real or Not - 6/11/2009 3:46:23 PM
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solarflare
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quote:
The fault of the sin lies on the individual sinning. Not on a demon.
I never said otherwise. It you actually read what I have posted previously on this thread you will see I say exactly that. So, no need to say so as if I did not know that. I think we all know that.
quote:
Is God going to send a sinner to Hell or just his sins? Is God going to send the demons to Hell and not the person who committed them?
Don't know why you even ask this. No one has said anything about sending anyone to hell here. Not even in the discussion. Again, I think we know the answer.
quote:
Sorry people... no scape goats here. No 'Pigs in the Parlor' lies.
You sin - you're responsible. No "the devil made me do it!!" excuses.
You've made YOUR point...which is all absolutely true...but has nothing to do with anything I have written here. So in what way does this prove that satan does not tempt? or even work through people? In no way at all.
Because he most certainly does and the Bible has many examples....Judas for example. I am sure Judas is not in heaven.
I only answered because you quoted me.
We do not have a disagreement here Earthless unless you make one. I agree with what you wrote...but you are not responding to what I wrote...or what others wrote. So let's not hold just me up to the light OK?
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RE: Jezebel spirit Real or Not - 6/11/2009 4:39:03 PM
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Consecrated2God
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When Peter tried to talk Jesus out of dying on the cross, ("Never, Lord!") Jesus replied to him, "Get behind me, satan!" I'm sure Peter wasn't demon-possessed, and I doubt that he even had any ulterior motives. He just wanted Jesus safe. Pretty natural, even if it's a fleshly thought and not really a spiritual one. But Jesus attributed the thought to satan. No doubt satan was trying to influence the situation somehow.
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"A faith that can be destroyed by suffering is not faith."--Richard Wurmbrand
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RE: Jezebel spirit Real or Not - 6/11/2009 4:46:20 PM
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solarflare
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That's the kinda thing I'm talking about....and interesting that Jesus did actually attribute that remark to satan. I think He would know.....
I do not believe Christians can be demon possessed...I do believe they can 'have' a demon...as I explained above. I know alot of people do not agree with me. Well, look at it the other way. I don't agree with you!
I don't agree with much or most of what has been written on the subject by people who 'dabble' in deliverance...but I do believe that a real need exists and if anyone wants to go 'pashaw...I don't believe it...that's fine.'
I once lived in that world too.
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RE: Jezebel spirit Real or Not - 6/11/2009 4:47:03 PM
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Eutychus
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solarflare
quote:
Not a lot of wiggle room there to blame things on demons for believers.
LOL! so one verse takes care of the whole thing for you then?
Yes, that is describing sin. But not demons...there are plenty of verses about those.
LOLOLOLOL!
That's right, I don't try to make a doctrine for believers based on things only recorded about unbelievers in order to gloss over what scripture calls one's own lust.
LOLOLOLOL!
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Jezebel spirit Real or Not - 6/11/2009 4:54:06 PM
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solarflare
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Well you can laugh Euty....but alot of people will not laugh with you.
I added to my post above...sorry....if you don't mind reading backwards.
I'm not glossing over what Scripture says regarding lust. On the other hand, you are glossing over all the warnings about deception and the fact that satan is the adversary for all believers. But that's fine. It's just not the reality of this fallen world to think that satan no longer does the same harm he did in the beginning...from Genesis until now.
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RE: Jezebel spirit Real or Not - 6/11/2009 5:06:34 PM
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Eutychus
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solarflare
Well you can laugh Euty....but alot of people will not laugh with you.
I added to my post above...sorry....if you don't mind reading backwards.
I'm not glossing over what Scripture says regarding lust. On the other hand, you are glossing over all the warnings about deception and the fact that satan is the adversary for all believers. But that's fine. It's just not the reality of this fallen world to think that satan no longer does the same harm he did in the beginning...from Genesis until now.
I'm not glossing over a thing. People are attributing to Satan their own lusts and not dealing with the REAL cause. I had a Pentecostal friend that daily cast out demons of lust and masturbation from himself - DAILY! And he never broke free of his own lust problem and his lack of holiness.
In my theology, God the Holy Spirit doesn't share His temple with Satan and neither is He subdued in part or whole within the redeemed of the Lamb. When that appear not to be the case, then you have a phony, a cheap-easy-believer that has not been saved.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Jezebel spirit Real or Not - 6/11/2009 5:17:23 PM
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solarflare
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
quote:
ORIGINAL: solarflare
Well you can laugh Euty....but alot of people will not laugh with you.
I added to my post above...sorry....if you don't mind reading backwards.
I'm not glossing over what Scripture says regarding lust. On the other hand, you are glossing over all the warnings about deception and the fact that satan is the adversary for all believers. But that's fine. It's just not the reality of this fallen world to think that satan no longer does the same harm he did in the beginning...from Genesis until now.
In my theology, God the Holy Spirit doesn't share His temple with Satan and neither is He subdued in part or whole within the redeemed of the Lamb. When that appear not to be the case, then you have a phony, a cheap-easy-believer that has not been saved.
Uh huh. I concur with your thoughts on your Pentecostal friend....but that is not what I am addressing....and one example of a problem with people who think everything is a demon is just that. One example. I agree...what more can I say? The man needed to keep his hands off himself!
Well, 'in your theology' may be what it is. I do not see things as you appear to and I do not believe Scripture is as clear on the evidence as you seem to think.
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RE: Jezebel spirit Real or Not - 6/11/2009 5:38:05 PM
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solarflare
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Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.I Pet 5:8
Apparently satan IS the adversary of Christians...believers..and he is looking for a Christian to eat up. satan is not a gummy bear with no teeth as many evangelicals like to describe him. and it would also seem he walks about...he is looking...with intention...to devour
But resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same experiences of suffering are being accomplished by your brethren who are in the world.
v.0
We are to resist the adversary....certainly not attribute to him what we ourselves do, but certainly be aware we do have this adversary.
There is not as much about satan in the OT as in the New. He is shown to be an accuser who seeks to sow discord and condemn (Zechariah 3:1-2), incites people to sin against God (1 Chronicles 21:1), and uses human beings and the elements to cause great pain and suffering (Job 1:6-19; 2:1-8).
I just don't see anything funny in any of that.
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RE: Jezebel spirit Real or Not - 6/11/2009 5:40:46 PM
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Eutychus
Posts: 6196
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solarflare
Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.I Pet 5:8
Apparently satan IS the adversary of Christians...believers..and he is looking for a Christian to eat up. satan is not a gummy bear with no teeth as many evangelicals like to describe him. and it would also seem he walks about...he is looking...with intention...to devour
But resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same experiences of suffering are being accomplished by your brethren who are in the world.
v.0
We are to resist the adversary....certainly not attribute to him what we ourselves do, but certainly be aware we do have this adversary.
There is not as much about satan in the OT as in the New. He is shown to be an accuser who seeks to sow discord and condemn (Zechariah 3:1-2), incites people to sin against God (1 Chronicles 21:1), and uses human beings and the elements to cause great pain and suffering (Job 1:6-19; 2:1-8).
I just don't see anything funny in any of that.
Neither do I, neither do I.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Jezebel spirit Real or Not - 6/11/2009 7:06:15 PM
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ironsharpensiron
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Just out of curiosity...couldn't calling or saying someone has a 'spirit of XXX' be considered a sort of divination?
Is saying some one has a 'spirit of YYY' when they do not know or see the person's heart mean the caller is being judgemental?
Just wondering...
Matthew
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"As iron sharpens iron, so a man sharpens the countenance of his friend." Proverbs 27:17
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RE: Jezebel spirit Real or Not - 6/11/2009 7:15:19 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ironsharpensiron
Just out of curiosity...couldn't calling or saying someone has a 'spirit of XXX' be considered a sort of divination?
Is saying some one has a 'spirit of YYY' when they do not know or see the person's heart mean the caller is being judgemental?
Or Possibly a gift from the Holy Spirit;
(1Co 12:10) To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
Thanks
RC
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Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
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RE: Jezebel spirit Real or Not - 6/11/2009 7:36:04 PM
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ironsharpensiron
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Thank you, RC, that was pretty much what I was alluding to; and I do believe God has allowed us, through the Holy Spirit to discern what spirit is true and what is not. Although not everyone will have this gift, yet people who do not have this gift oftimes believe they do.
Matthew
_____________________________
"As iron sharpens iron, so a man sharpens the countenance of his friend." Proverbs 27:17
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RE: Jezebel spirit Real or Not - 6/12/2009 8:21:58 AM
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godzgyrl05
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quote:
crankius
Honest, I think the whole "Jezebel Spirit" thing is ridiculous. It would be as silly as saying every adulterer had a David Spirit or every swindler had a Judas Spirit or every prostitute had a Rahab Spirit.
People sin. Call the sin what it is--don't make up some title that doesn't even exist in Scripture.
Amen!
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RE: Jezebel spirit Real or Not - 6/12/2009 4:57:59 PM
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DoveMinistries
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I find it interesting the contention that this subject brings in a forum filled with Christians. (Luke 9:55) But He turned and rebuked them, and said," You do not know what manner of spirit you are of.(1John 4:1) Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirit, whether they are of God; because many fales prophets (teachers) have gone out into the world. TEST WHAT?
(Mattheew 10:1) He gave them power over unclean spirits, to cast them out. Jesus gave us power over what? If there not here why do we need power over them.
And what about (1Timothy 4:1) Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons. WOW, how did we miss that?
I believe this latter time is now, but thats my opinon, but you cant prove me wrong. Again I will say this, satan is not after what he already has, but what he does not have. Thats you, IF your born again and he will lie, cheat and kill to get you. The only way to keep that from happening is to fight the good fight. And that is the good fight of Faith. Stay in the word, daily not just on sunday mornings. And not to trust in man but only the Helper, the Holy spirit which will TEACH you ALL THINGS, and bring you in remembrance all things Jesus said to us. You probally do not all agree with me, but I encourage you all to read the word of God which can not be debated. May God bless us all.
R Dove
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RE: Jezebel spirit Real or Not - 6/12/2009 5:02:32 PM
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Eutychus
Posts: 6196
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DoveMinistries
...Again I will say this, satan is not after what he already has, but what he does not have...
You know what? He cannot have me for the Bible tells me so.
Satan may get glee from making the lost suffer in this life too. But he can do absolutely nothing to the blood-bought, Holy Spirit indwelt believer without EXPRESS permission from my heavenly Father.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Jezebel spirit Real or Not - 6/12/2009 5:24:21 PM
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DoveMinistries
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That does not mean he is not after you.
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RE: Jezebel spirit Real or Not - 6/12/2009 5:28:05 PM
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Eutychus
Posts: 6196
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From: Dothan, AL
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DoveMinistries
That does not mean he is not after you.
But he cannot have me. Why waste the energy?
Something that I've noticed in my 42 years of being redeemed by the blood of the Lamb is that believers only require demons to be exorcized or detached in "certain" Penetcostal churches. It's always struck me as curious.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Jezebel spirit Real or Not - 6/12/2009 5:42:30 PM
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DoveMinistries
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Well that may be true, but to deny the fact that dark powers are at work is only to deceive yourself. plus I think that you, RC, solarflare and myself all agree on the same issues. A true believer has nothing to worry about. Thank you Jesus for that. I was addressing the lukewarm.
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RE: Jezebel spirit Real or Not - 6/12/2009 5:44:58 PM
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Eutychus
Posts: 6196
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dothan, AL
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DoveMinistries
Well that may be true, but to deny the fact that dark powers are at work is only to deceive yourself. plus I think that you, RC, solarflare and myself all agree on the same issues. A true believer has nothing to worry about. Thank you Jesus for that. I was addressing the lukewarm.
I haven't denied that Satan goes about as a roaring lion seeking whom he can devour. But I'm not so sure that RC agrees with everything put forth in this thread.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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