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RE: Jezebel spirit Real or Not - 6/15/2009 9:07:28 AM
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buckifn
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I haven't read all the posts here...and some I have read are far off base of what the BIBLE teaches.
First of all Jezebel was a woman in the OT who wanted one of God's leader's killed. So she was a real person, not a demon. The death wish she had for God's man came back on her herself and the Bible says the "dogs licked up her blood in the streets."
I haven't read any book mentioned here that was written by what someone labeled a false prophet...but if one wants to know about Jezebel read the story in the Bible it's in 1 and 2 Kings. She was married to King Ahab and turned him against serving the true God to worshiping idol gods associated with her background as a Phoenician.
The story speaks for iteself and has nothing to do with demons.
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RE: Jezebel spirit Real or Not - 6/15/2009 10:22:52 AM
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bolt.
Posts: 1753
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: Canada
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quote:
The name Jezebel in this passage is not the name of the actual person but the type of spirit that was driving this person. John the Revelator was referencing the original Jezebel from the Old Testament and the type of attitude / spirit she had (rebellion). No, Sir. The passage in Revelation is clear and specific when it rebukes that Church for tollerating "the WOMAN Jezebel" not "the spirit Jezebel" or "the woman who is acting in a Jezebel spirit" -- clearly it is a comparative reference-name, probably not her born name. Revelation is full of name-based comparisons and symbolic language like this.
BUT the comparison is being made because the "woman Jezebel" of Revelation is promoting both sexual immorality and idolotry, the same as the original Jezebel did. (1) There is no mention of the "woman Jezebel" in Revelation being in rebelion against Church leadership, grasping for power or causing an unwarrented Church split. In fact John 'the revelator' strictly calls for a 'Church split' to expell her, her immorality, and her followers. (2) Neither is there any mention of any specific spiritual influence controling or supporting her behaviour in driving the Church into immorality.
quote:
This comes from Ephesians 6:11 - 12. If you study (note that I didn't use the word read) this passage you will find that Paul was giving "rank and file" to Satan's forces/army It may be possible to draw out of this passage some ideas and possibilites for specifics, but they are by no means clear or conclusive. It is not exegetically responsible to build shaky towers of possibilites like this, especially as a teacher. Paul probably made quite clear what he was trying to make clear about these things.
quote:
I believe that when we succumb to our own lusts and whims that we begin to give these spirits a foothold in our life. Example - The first time that we look upon someone other than our spouse to lust is not a demonic spirit it is our own natural desires (we are still flesh and blood...it happens), it's when we begin to do this over and over again and begin to entertain these thoughts and desires that we allow the spirit of lust to gain access into our life and begin to take control. These are the strongholds that II Corinthians 10: 3 - 5 is speaking of. This, however is quite sensible and accurate enough for, as you say, personal theology. It's really well thought out and balanced.
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RE: Jezebel spirit Real or Not - 6/15/2009 10:24:49 AM
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solarflare
Posts: 1614
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DoveMinistries:
Would you be able to explain why in your OP you wrote:
quote:
I just recently watched two different churches torn apart by what I believe to be a Jezebel spirit attacking the leadership. Just wondering how to deal with this bad spirit? And is there any other attacks that or taking place in other churches?
Yet, you wrote this 4 pages later:
quote:
quote:
ORIGINAL: DoveMinistries
quote:
I'm going to assume you are addressing me. I guess I'm 'Mr. Lukewarm' here...
Nope not you. The one's that are falling under convection of the subject, thats the one's. And I do agree with brother Shane on the subject of the tread. However I have heard several Pastor's using this term and wanted an opinion one the subject. Real or Not? I also believe its more on the snake handlers line of doctrine. (Luke 17:1) sums up some of the answers though. and I would like to appoligize to any who I have offended.
R Dove
In your OP you 'believe' that a Jezebel spirit exists...in fact you state you just 'watched' it tear apart two churches.
Then, in the above quoted post you seem to indicate that 'it' is more on the line of the snake handler's doctrine.
Have you changed your mind since your OP? Just wondering.......
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RE: Jezebel spirit Real or Not - 6/15/2009 11:02:35 AM
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laura...
Posts: 3394
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From: NE Ohio
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pbaribeault,
Thank you for your posts. They are very very good.
The description of a Jezebel spirit as a spirit of rebellion against authority just doesn't make sense since Jezebel was in authority. She didn't rebel against authority. She was queen. She promoted her husband's, the king, authority. She used her authority and her husband's authority to get what she wanted. She accused and destroyed those who she didn't like or who confronted her.
DoveMinistries,
You specifically ask as the title of this thread, Jezebel spirit Real or Not". The answer is "NOT". I have seen far more churches split by the leadership accusing others of having a Jezebel spirit than by any so-called spirit. If there is a "Jezebel spirit" it is far more likely to be controlling the one doing the accusing.
My experience has taught me that leadership that is making unwise decisions, promoting bad theology and causing trouble in their own churches will start looking for "the Jezebel" in the congregation to blame it all on.
_____________________________
This is what the Lord says: “Stop at the crossroads and look around. Ask for the old, godly way, and walk in it. Travel its path, and you will find rest for your souls. But you reply, ‘No, that’s not the road we want!’ Jer 6:16
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RE: Jezebel spirit Real or Not - 6/15/2009 11:35:51 AM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2279
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quote:
ORIGINAL: laura...
pbaribeault,
Thank you for your posts. They are very very good.
The description of a Jezebel spirit as a spirit of rebellion against authority just doesn't make sense since Jezebel was in authority. She didn't rebel against authority. She was queen. She promoted her husband's, the king, authority. She used her authority and her husband's authority to get what she wanted. She accused and destroyed those who she didn't like or who confronted her.
DoveMinistries,
You specifically ask as the title of this thread, Jezebel spirit Real or Not". The answer is "NOT". I have seen far more churches split by the leadership accusing others of having a Jezebel spirit than by any so-called spirit. If there is a "Jezebel spirit" it is far more likely to be controlling the one doing the accusing.
My experience has taught me that leadership that is making unwise decisions, promoting bad theology and causing trouble in their own churches will start looking for "the Jezebel" in the congregation to blame it all on.
Greetings
quote:
The description of a Jezebel spirit as a spirit of rebellion against authority just doesn't make sense since Jezebel was in authority. She didn't rebel against authority. She was queen.
You got the right on the nose... its just like a kingdom principal, satan does not cast out satan...
quote:
She promoted her husband's, the king, authority. She used her authority and her husband's authority to get what she wanted.
The spirit itself.... or its workings has ...its root.... in premeditation
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Jezebel spirit Real or Not - 6/15/2009 1:53:58 PM
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buckifn
Posts: 1783
Joined: 5/23/2006
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If one cannot understand the difference between a woman and a demon spirit one really should not say things that lead to confusion by someone who doesn't know the Bible.
People use the term "demon spirit" so loosely and have absolutely no biblical basis to back up the words they say in blaming certain problems on such a source. Most of the problems among leadership are due to greed, lust, lack of wisdom, lack of obedience to God's Word, and lack of submitting to Christ. Demons don't do a lot of stuff they are given credit for.
Individual responsibility doesn't sound quite as spiritual as 'demon possessed" I suppose.
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RE: Jezebel spirit Real or Not - 6/15/2009 4:19:52 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 6792
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quote:
ORIGINAL: buckifn
If one cannot understand the difference between a woman and a demon spirit one really should not say things that lead to confusion by someone who doesn't know the Bible.
People use the term "demon spirit" so loosely and have absolutely no biblical basis to back up the words they say in blaming certain problems on such a source. Most of the problems among leadership are due to greed, lust, lack of wisdom, lack of obedience to God's Word, and lack of submitting to Christ. Demons don't do a lot of stuff they are given credit for.
Individual responsibility doesn't sound quite as spiritual as 'demon possessed" I suppose.
Buckifn, do you believe in "Demonic Spirits"?
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Jezebel spirit Real or Not - 6/15/2009 6:17:41 PM
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DoveMinistries
Posts: 299
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Solarflare:
quote:
I just recently watched two different churches torn apart by what I believe to be a Jezebel spirit attacking the leadership. Just wondering how to deal with this bad spirit? And is there any other attacks that or taking place in other churches?
quote:
In your OP you 'believe' that a Jezebel spirit exists...in fact you state you just 'watched' it tear apart two churches.
Then, in the above quoted post you seem to indicate that 'it' is more on the line of the snake handler's doctrine.
I am sure that says; What I believe to be. And I believe the OP states jezabel spirit real or not? But to answer your question these Pastors used this term of why there church's had split.
Again I believe the thread states jezabel spirit real or not? question form
And to answer the question of changing my mind, it was never made up. Hence the tread.
R Dove
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RE: Jezebel spirit Real or Not - 6/15/2009 6:42:09 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 1614
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DoveMinistries
Solarflare:
quote:
I just recently watched two different churches torn apart by what I believe to be a Jezebel spirit attacking the leadership. Just wondering how to deal with this bad spirit? And is there any other attacks that or taking place in other churches?
quote:
In your OP you 'believe' that a Jezebel spirit exists...in fact you state you just 'watched' it tear apart two churches.
Then, in the above quoted post you seem to indicate that 'it' is more on the line of the snake handler's doctrine.
I am sure that says; What I believe to be. And I believe the OP states jezabel spirit real or not? But to answer your question these Pastors used this term of why there church's had split.
Again I believe the thread states jezabel spirit real or not? question form
And to answer the question of changing my mind, it was never made up. Hence the tread.
R Dove
Well it's a little confusing since you did state that you believed it to be a jezebel spirit attacking the leadership...you did not state the pastors called it that. And, you were wondering how to deal with the spirit...if it was real or not was not the only question.
I am only asking because I found that you were a little hazy on what you thought...maybe that is just me...but I thought it would be helpful if you cleared that up since you began this thread. Thanks
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RE: Jezebel spirit Real or Not - 6/15/2009 8:44:52 PM
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buckifn
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quote:
Buckifn, do you believe in "Demonic Spirits"?
As an excuse for every problem in the church today? No.
I believe as the BIble says, nothing more and nothing less.
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RE: Jezebel spirit Real or Not - 6/16/2009 7:54:49 AM
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DaveW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: buckifnquote:
Buckifn, do you believe in "Demonic Spirits"? As an excuse for every problem in the church today? No.
I believe as the BIble says, nothing more and nothing less. I see a HUGE problem here.
There are some that say that the demonic is not in operation any more, maybe back in the first century but not now. Then there are others who say that every problem that comes up in their life or in the congregation is a "spirit of this" or a "demon of that." Both suffer from the exact same problem. In fact the OP question shows that very problem and the fact this discussion has gone on so long shows just how widespread the problem is.
The problem?: no discernment. Everyone is flying blind. They say this or that based on their dogma, and can't see what is really going on.
If you do not have discernment, you cannot effectively fight our enemy.
_____________________________
Avatar is my daughter Laura and SIL David on their wedding 9/20/09 ====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: Jezebel spirit Real or Not - 6/16/2009 7:59:21 AM
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soundoctrine
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Absolutely right!
Satan loves it when people don't believe in him or his power. It gives him more room to work.
If you don't believe in him (or at least that a given problem is being caused by him) then you will use carnal methods to try and remedy a spiritual problem. Then, later you are sitting around wondering why the problem will not go away.
And no, I'm not saying that every single thing that happens is God or the devil...I realize that life happens (go outside when it's cold and raining without proper clothing and you are gonna get sick...that wasn't the devil that was you.). But I'm not ignorant enough to chalk everything up to plain old humanity either. That would be a grave error on my part. How can anyone believe that God will have his hand involved in the lives of humanity and not think that Satan will not do the same...it would be absurd to even think that.
_____________________________
Christ is coming back!!
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RE: Jezebel spirit Real or Not - 6/16/2009 8:06:06 AM
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buckifn
Posts: 1783
Joined: 5/23/2006
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This thread was not started to question my personal belief's. I think that is a TOS issue anyhow. Not sure...but I have no reason to worry about my response given here about the subject- Jezebel, because I believe the Bible is clear about who she was.
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RE: Jezebel spirit Real or Not - 6/16/2009 8:19:16 AM
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Eutychus
Posts: 6196
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solarflare
I am pretty sure that the devil likes nothing more than people who exclaim that he cannot touch them. Deception is his number one weapon in his deadly assault cabinet of supernatural tools.
And I'm reasonably sure Satan delights in Christians who think God is in heaven pacing in worry and that He is afraid that another poor believer will slip through His hands. In fact, fear is one of Satan's best tools against believers, without ever occupying the Temple of any.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Jezebel spirit Real or Not - 6/16/2009 11:10:58 AM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2279
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: buckifn
This thread was not started to question my personal beliefs. I think that is a TOS issue anyhow. Not sure...but I have no reason to worry about my response given here about the subject- Jezebel, because I believe the Bible is clear about who she was.
Greetings,
The OT was given to us for its example of accoutered in the natural for examples of spiritual things,
quote:
I believe the Bible is clear about who she was.
Actually the Bible defines her in all 3 aspects
..Who was
.......Who is
.........And who is to come
How would one define the activity of Jezebel in our lives today... by comparison to who she was… ?
I mean even though the example of the women Jezebel is dead and buried ...what are the spiritual indicators of one oppressed by this very old spirit?
BUT
It must have some importance because Jesus gave it to John in the Rev 2 to reiterate to an Angel of the Church in that day… so if this example of the women was not affecting the Church in question… then why did Jesus shed light on a women who is dead... as being alive in that certain Church
So I guess He was speaking of “the spirit of” Jezebel; which is merely a principality and a power in a dark place
Trust me, all of us…. male and female… have all had an encounter with her,
But since most leaders have no clue of principalities and powers …you won’t find on the internet what I am going offer up shortly ….or even in many local churches for that matter.
... And I can guarantee “we all” will remember the encounter… once one knows what to look for… in order to squash the next encounter
It’s all in there, and Jesus even shows us how to get rid of this pest also
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Jezebel spirit Real or Not - 6/16/2009 11:24:52 AM
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laura...
Posts: 3394
Joined: 3/1/2005
From: NE Ohio
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quote:
BUT
It must have some importance because Jesus gave it to John in the Rev 2 to reiterate to an Angel of the Church in that day… so if this example of the women was not affecting the Church in question… then why did Jesus shed light on a women who is dead... as being alive in that certain Church
So I guess He was speaking of “the spirit of” Jezebel; which is merely a principality and a power in a dark place
Since Jesus commanded John to write these letters to real churches that existed at the time, perhaps Jezebel was a real woman who was alive at the time, called herself a prophetess and who was leading people into sexual immorality.
Rev. 2:18 "To the angel of the church in Thyatira write:
These are the words of the Son of God, whose eyes are like blazing fire and whose feet are like burnished bronze. 19 I know your deeds, your love and faith, your service and perseverance, and that you are now doing more than you did at first. 20 Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols. 21 I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling. 22 So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways. 23 I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds. 24 Now I say to the rest of you in Thyatira, to you who do not hold to her teaching and have not learned Satan's so-called deep secrets (I will not impose any other burden on you):
Why "guess" if Jesus is speaking of a spirit when he clearly states "woman".
_____________________________
This is what the Lord says: “Stop at the crossroads and look around. Ask for the old, godly way, and walk in it. Travel its path, and you will find rest for your souls. But you reply, ‘No, that’s not the road we want!’ Jer 6:16
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RE: Jezebel spirit Real or Not - 6/16/2009 11:38:24 AM
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solarflare
Posts: 1614
Joined: 6/16/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: buckifn
This thread was not started to question my personal belief's. I think that is a TOS issue anyhow. Not sure...but I have no reason to worry about my response given here about the subject- Jezebel, because I believe the Bible is clear about who she was.
Well, if we are discussing the OP from a Biblical perspective, which assumption I am operating with, I see no reason to bring up the TOS....if you feel you have been personally insulted or attacked, perhaps you should report it.
Surely you realize that if yout write something on a thread, someone may disagree or question you on it. That, does not qualify for a violation of the TOS.
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RE: Jezebel spirit Real or Not - 6/16/2009 12:19:14 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2279
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: laura...
quote:
BUT
It must have some importance because Jesus gave it to John in the Rev 2 to reiterate to an Angel of the Church in that day… so if this example of the women was not affecting the Church in question… then why did Jesus shed light on a women who is dead... as being alive in that certain Church
So I guess He was speaking of “the spirit of” Jezebel; which is merely a principality and a power in a dark place
Since Jesus commanded John to write these letters to real churches that existed at the time, perhaps Jezebel was a real woman who was alive at the time, called herself a prophetess and who was leading people into sexual immorality.
Rev. 2:18 "To the angel of the church in Thyatira write:
These are the words of the Son of God, whose eyes are like blazing fire and whose feet are like burnished bronze. 19 I know your deeds, your love and faith, your service and perseverance, and that you are now doing more than you did at first. 20 Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols. 21 I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling. 22 So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways. 23 I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds. 24 Now I say to the rest of you in Thyatira, to you who do not hold to her teaching and have not learned Satan's so-called deep secrets (I will not impose any other burden on you):
Why "guess" if Jesus is speaking of a spirit when he clearly states "woman".
Greetings L
quote:
Why "guess" if Jesus is speaking of a spirit when he clearly states "woman".
The letters express examples from past events and it would be inconsistent by naming a certain women as being present in represent as one of the 7 Angels of the Church at the same time.. it would be as an addition to the 7 Angels of the Church…
Jesus addressed 7 not 8 and would be a bit inconsistent by naming this certain women and then causing the inability to gain information on it...
See here in verse 30
30 Now Ahab the son of Omri…“did evil”.. in the sight of the Lord, more than all who were before him.
That evil Ahab (a Jew) did in the sight of the Lord is written here
31 And it came to pass, as though it had been a trivial thing for him to walk in the sins of Jeroboam the son of Nebat, that he took as wife Jezebel the daughter of Ethbaal, king of the Sidonians; and he went and served Baal and worshiped him.
So because we are speaking of a spirit that draws one to itself,
The same is seen here by the example...
Something caused Ahab the son of Omri to do evil in the sight of the Lord, ..more than… all who were before him…so this is new example of a spiritual occurrence given to us in the OT scripture
And it was mentioned in verse 31 what that evil was, it was when it came to pass and is defined as the taking of a wife named Jezebel…. the daughter of Ethbaal, king of the Sidonians; and he went and served Baal ...and worshiped him
What came to pass…mentioned in verse 31 is in the exact order as it written in Rev 2 but is defined better in Rev 2 … and is where we see the same draw and affect that is spoken of in like manner in verse 31 of 1 Kings 16
What this is showing us is that when the spirit of Jezebel is tolerated or allowed by the Church it gives the spirit room to operate… as Jesus defined as... to teach and seduce..
We see the results by Ahab the son of Omri a jew by the taking of a wife who was not a Jew =immoral…. and then that is followed by the worship if Idols =and he went and served Baal ...and worshiped him
quote:
Why "guess" if Jesus is speaking of a spirit when he clearly states "woman".
It’s not consistent, it’s like mixing oil and vinegar, the natural and the supernatural can not be defined under the same light…the OT examples in the natural that can be seen describe the spirit that drove them that can not be seen.
LG
< Message edited by LoyalGypsy -- 6/16/2009 12:32:23 PM >
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Jezebel spirit Real or Not - 6/16/2009 12:23:44 PM
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Eutychus
Posts: 6196
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dothan, AL
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solarflare
quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
quote:
ORIGINAL: solarflare
I am pretty sure that the devil likes nothing more than people who exclaim that he cannot touch them. Deception is his number one weapon in his deadly assault cabinet of supernatural tools.
And I'm reasonably sure Satan delights in Christians who think God is in heaven pacing in worry and that He is afraid that another poor believer will slip through His hands. In fact, fear is one of Satan's best tools against believers, without ever occupying the Temple of any.
Do you know any Christians like that? I don't.
Yes, I know LOTS and LOTS of them. Some in the family, some members of churches I used to attend. I used to be one myself back when I thought I could be saved today and land in hell tomorrow over any infraction. And thought I had lots of scripture to back it up.
I was wrong.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Jezebel spirit Real or Not - 6/16/2009 2:05:55 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 1614
Joined: 6/16/2008
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quote:
Yes, I know LOTS and LOTS of them. Some in the family, some members of churches I used to attend. I used to be one myself back when I thought I could be saved today and land in hell tomorrow over any infraction. And thought I had lots of scripture to back it up.
I was wrong.
Well we have very different backgrounds I guess. But I don't see anything here I disagree with......uh....I'm not even sure we are discussing the same thing....I didn't know we were discussing whether or not a person can loose their salvation......or whether or not God is actually God....I'm not pentecostal by the way.......so I really don't know what you are getting at........
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RE: Jezebel spirit Real or Not - 6/16/2009 2:10:12 PM
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Eutychus
Posts: 6196
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dothan, AL
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solarflare
quote:
Yes, I know LOTS and LOTS of them. Some in the family, some members of churches I used to attend. I used to be one myself back when I thought I could be saved today and land in hell tomorrow over any infraction. And thought I had lots of scripture to back it up.
I was wrong.
Well we have very different backgrounds I guess. But I don't see anything here I disagree with......uh....I'm not even sure we are discussing the same thing....I didn't know we were discussing whether or not a person can loose their salvation......or whether or not God is actually God....I'm not pentecostal by the way.......so I really don't know what you are getting at........
It was simply a side, connecting thought to my comments on Satan and fear. Don't take it as an invitation to chase that rabbit beyond my main point.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Jezebel spirit Real or Not - 6/16/2009 2:34:04 PM
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asuzette
Posts: 21
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Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.Revelation 2:20-23 From Scripture you can see that Jezebel shows up in the church at Thyatira. I do not see Jezebel is a Christian. She clearly leads those who would follow Christ to exploit God's grace by committing idolatry and sexual sin.
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) Do they fan the fires in hell? Do they put pitchforks in people's backsides? Do they jump up and down in those little caption notes you see in comics? I'm being funny here, but really I have the impression that at least half the people who have responded on this thread seem to think the devil is nothing more than an urban myth or a character in a red suit pulling on his long pencil thin moustache. 
I really did not understand what you were getting at and since you quoted me in what you wrote, I thought I would ask. 