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Leo was correct - 6/11/2009 3:42:12 AM
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beefy777
Posts: 4
Joined: 4/24/2009
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When one is in the military, one may engage in acts which are quite contrary to Jesus' words.
When Jesus says, "do good to those who hate you," how can one kill someone else and consider it to be doing them any good?
When Jesus says, "love your enemies," how can one love their enemy as they rip out their guts with a bayonet?
Some people who kill other people in their military occupation, really need to think about what they are doing.
These people who kill in the military make thousands of mothers childless, children fatherless, and countless untold numbers of grieving widows. There is nothing honorable about that. That is what these people are trained to do. Trained to kill. They bring pain, grief, and suffering to those caught in their wake, both the guilty and the innocent. And they grieve me as well.
In short, what I have to say is this. Jesus reached out to the fatherless and widows. These people who kill in the military and claim to follow Christ merely make more work for the true Christians who are out there reaching out to the families of all the insurgents and "terrorists" and innocent bystanders that the other "Christians" have killed.
To be Christian means to be Christ-like. There is nothing Christ-like about taking anothers life just to save your own. Is their life worth less than the life of your family? Are they not just as loved by God as you? Is their life worth less than your country? Is their life worth less than your freedom?
No. God loves us, all of us. God forgave us when we deserved death. He took away the punishment for our transgressions. If we do not forgive our own transgressors in the same way, how then can we represent God's love to the world?
The Bible says to imitate the life of Christ here on earth, and Christ never killed those who threatened His safety and the safety of His disciples. They ended up dead too.
But what did they say? "To live is Christ and to die is gain." Death is gain, my friend.
In the words of the great Christian Leo Tolstoy, who was a lieutenant in the Russian army at one time...
"We must say that by whatever name people may call murder - murder always remains murder and a criminal and shameful thing.
With regard to those who voluntarily choose a military career, I would propose to state clearly and definitely that not withstanding all the pomp, glitter, and general approval with which it is surrounded, it is a criminal and shameful activity; and that the higher the position a man holds in the military profession the more criminal and shameful his occupation."
And a truly shameful occupation it is. Worthy to be rebuked and admonished.
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RE: Leo was correct - 6/11/2009 10:20:49 AM
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Eutychus
Posts: 6351
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dothan, AL
Status: online
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quote:
But what did they say? "To live is Christ and to die is gain." Death is gain, my friend.
That seems to undermine your whole premise against the military...
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Leo was correct - 6/11/2009 10:29:19 AM
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Kerrlaw
Posts: 6679
Joined: 5/24/2006
From: Big Orange Country
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quote:
When one is in the military, one may engage in acts which are quite contrary to Jesus' words.
In the ministry too...
and health care...
and accounting...
and so on.
_____________________________
That which does not kill us makes us fatter. ~ crankius
Coffee sinners lovers click here.
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RE: Leo was correct - 6/11/2009 12:14:11 PM
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navyblueret
Posts: 1971
Joined: 11/29/2008
From: S/W Nebraska
Status: offline
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Beefy777, Shalom.
I guess you must now raise your fist and condemn God for the 'murders' He ordered Joshua to commit when Israel crossed the Jordan and kill every living being in the cities God told him to attack. Joshua didn't make widdows, nor orphans, because God told him to 'Kill' every living one of them. Nuff said about that.
Those 'nasty' military types, of which I was one for many years, whether we killed or not, were, and are, the only protection you have from having your head removed by some 'Fundamentalist' Muslim, for the reason of you just being alive, unless, of course you are, or suddenly offer to become, a Muslim yourself.
I do not like to pre-suppose, but, IMO, and from your words, you are the type they would spare, as you would enjoy being the one that causes any you do not like to be taken to execution, and clap your hands as their heads are lopped off.
Sorry, You have a right to your opinion, as do I. You said your piece, and I just said mine. Perhaps we should let it rest at this point. I am going to.
In Messiah, His Shalom, and Forgiveness of Ignorance. Arley
Oh, and Welcome to the Forum.
< Message edited by navyblueret -- 6/11/2009 12:23:46 PM >
_____________________________
In the name of 'THE' Mashiach, Man the wall, set the watch, sound the Shofar. Our redemption draws nigh.
Messiah, my Captain, and Helmsman.
(Joh 14:6 KJV) ... I am the way, the truth, and the life: ...
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RE: Leo was correct - 6/11/2009 1:28:56 PM
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Bro_Shane
Posts: 1614
Joined: 8/4/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: beefy777
When one is in the military, one may engage in acts which are quite contrary to Jesus' words.
When Jesus says, "do good to those who hate you," how can one kill someone else and consider it to be doing them any good?
I sniffed the air and thought I smelled the stench of context lifting in progress. I see I was right.
This is a personal admonition, not a national one. You also have a huge theological impasse because you have God commanding Israel to go to war on one hand, then God saying we shouldn't on another. Also, look in the epistles where military examples are used on more than one occasion with no command to abstain from the military or the defense of self or society.
quote:
When Jesus says, "love your enemies," how can one love their enemy as they rip out their guts with a bayonet?
We don't use bayonets that much any more. See above. Your point is moot.
quote:
Some people who kill other people in their military occupation, really need to think about what they are doing.
As do people that condone what God calls an abomination, tries to change Isaiah to say Mary was not a virgin, and simply wrecks scripture to meet a personal agenda - hint hint.
quote:
These people who kill in the military make thousands of mothers childless, children fatherless, and countless untold numbers of grieving widows. There is nothing honorable about that. That is what these people are trained to do. Trained to kill. They bring pain, grief, and suffering to those caught in their wake, both the guilty and the innocent. And they grieve me as well.
My heart bleeds for you. No it doesn't. Can't you make a biblical case without torturing scripture?
quote:
In the words of the great Christian Leo Tolstoy, who was a lieutenant in the Russian army at one time...
"We must say that by whatever name people may call murder - murder always remains murder and a criminal and shameful thing.
 HAAAAAAHAAAHAAHAAHAAHAAAA
quote:
With regard to those who voluntarily choose a military career, I would propose to state clearly and definitely that not withstanding all the pomp, glitter, and general approval with which it is surrounded, it is a criminal and shameful activity; and that the higher the position a man holds in the military profession the more criminal and shameful his occupation."
And a truly shameful occupation it is. Worthy to be rebuked and admonished.
I propose you try a country that would be more to your liking. I hear China is beautiful this time of year.
_____________________________
<---- Respect the turtle neck
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RE: Leo was correct - 6/11/2009 2:32:33 PM
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navyblueret
Posts: 1971
Joined: 11/29/2008
From: S/W Nebraska
Status: offline
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SuspenseWriter, Shalom.
In a way, I hope you are right. I lost my cool with his words. Shades of what we received from our fellow countrymen in the sixties, and seventies. I guess I had a flash-back to those days.
My apology to one and all, for my attitude. You guys should have seen what I typed, and then deleted.  
Beefy has another thread just started about Homosexuality not being a sin. 
These smileys say it all 
Edited TOS 6
< Message edited by Kath -- 6/11/2009 7:18:52 PM >
_____________________________
In the name of 'THE' Mashiach, Man the wall, set the watch, sound the Shofar. Our redemption draws nigh.
Messiah, my Captain, and Helmsman.
(Joh 14:6 KJV) ... I am the way, the truth, and the life: ...
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RE: Leo was correct - 6/11/2009 2:49:01 PM
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Qtman
Posts: 6323
Joined: 3/21/2006
From: Crimson Tide Country
Status: offline
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Well his post was pretty well writen. He should thank a teacher.
It was in English. He should thank the U.S. Military.
I just returned from a trip up the east coast where I stopped in D.C. and visited with several friends I have not seen in almost 40 years. All I saw was their names on a Wall. Then I come back and read this garbage. Just turns my stomach. I was spat on, cursed, called a baby killer and many other things in the early 70's when I returned. It bothers me more now than it did then.
If this shameful, sinful vet could get my hands on him I fear I would beat the stuffing out of him.
Blessings to All
Especially my fellow Veterans and those currently serving.
_____________________________
At one time Jesus was my co-pilot. Things are much better now that He and I have changed seats.
<Me & my happyplate at Lobster Hut
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RE: Leo was correct - 6/11/2009 3:00:35 PM
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navyblueret
Posts: 1971
Joined: 11/29/2008
From: S/W Nebraska
Status: offline
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Not me, I would probably pee in his pocket.
It is sad, however, when it is easier to respect those we fought, easier than some of those who 'welcomed' us home.
Nuff said.
In Messiah. Arley
_____________________________
In the name of 'THE' Mashiach, Man the wall, set the watch, sound the Shofar. Our redemption draws nigh.
Messiah, my Captain, and Helmsman.
(Joh 14:6 KJV) ... I am the way, the truth, and the life: ...
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RE: Leo was correct - 6/11/2009 6:23:32 PM
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Qtman
Posts: 6323
Joined: 3/21/2006
From: Crimson Tide Country
Status: offline
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You seemed to have researched it pretty good Kath. Was the reaction the same on the other threads?
_____________________________
At one time Jesus was my co-pilot. Things are much better now that He and I have changed seats.
<Me & my happyplate at Lobster Hut
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RE: Leo was correct - 6/11/2009 6:57:55 PM
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Kath
Posts: 17284
Joined: 2/28/2005
Status: offline
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Pretty much. Some of it was worse.
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