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RE: Ted Dekker - 6/18/2009 3:56:49 PM
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Palyxandra
Posts: 62
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quote:
ORIGINAL: matthewjc
oh man I just bought it
I'm sorry I couldn't help but laugh when I read your message! I could just see your face dropping and you looking all sad. AW!
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RE: Ted Dekker - 6/18/2009 3:58:10 PM
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Palyxandra
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
Has anyone read Dekker's book Adam? It sounds interesting, but I don't know anyone who has read it.
My sister is reading Adam right now and she LOVES it. I haven't read it myself but usually we agree on which books are amazing and which are duds. I would highly recommend it just because I see her reading it every chance she gets.
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RE: Ted Dekker - 6/19/2009 3:15:46 AM
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ManimalX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Palyxandra
quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
Has anyone read Dekker's book Adam? It sounds interesting, but I don't know anyone who has read it.
My sister is reading Adam right now and she LOVES it. I haven't read it myself but usually we agree on which books are amazing and which are duds. I would highly recommend it just because I see her reading it every chance she gets.
Great! Thank for the recommend. As soon as I finish The Court of the Air and Empire in Black and Gold I will check it out.
_____________________________
"And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth." - 2nd Timothy 2:24,25
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RE: Ted Dekker - 6/19/2009 11:00:46 AM
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angie4God
Posts: 366
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I bought Adam a while back but I haven't gotten to read it yet. I'll have to get around to at least starting it.
House was alright but not great. It felt kind of drawn out. We got the movie and started watching it yseterday. It was put out by Lionsgate. The quality seems pretty good. DH was enjoying it and so far it's really faithful to the book. We'll see how it turns out.
The only thing I find dissapointing with Dekkers books is what MiinmalX said, the lack of a real moral or Christian message. And I agree, the stories can be kind of disturbing. It's like you have to really dig to find a Christian message in there. I might as well read Stephen King. I'm definitely not going to read Boneman's daughters.
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I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.
Phillipians 4:13
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RE: Ted Dekker - 6/19/2009 11:32:02 AM
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E_Lin
Posts: 1099
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From: Cincinnati, OH
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
Has anyone read Dekker's book Adam? It sounds interesting, but I don't know anyone who has read it.
That was the first Dekker book I read, based on a recommendation from a guy in a Christian bookstore. I thought it was very good. I would definitely recommend it to both Christians and those who are not. I remember how impressed I was, that a Christian could write a book like that.
Everything I have read since then says to me that Ted Dekker is the equivalent of Steven King or Dean Koontz as far as Christian authors go. I was really impressed when reading on the back of his book "BoneMan's Daughters" that author James Rollins had high praise for the book. I really enjoy Rollins' books, and for someone like that, who even has included slight (unintentional ) anti-Christian sentiments in his novels, to praise a Christian author like Dekker, carries a lot of weight in my opinion.
_____________________________
"Human beings make life so interesting. Do you know that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to invent boredom? Quite astonishing..."
- Death (from the book "Hogfather" by Terry Pratchett)
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RE: Ted Dekker - 6/19/2009 11:47:40 AM
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E_Lin
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quote:
ORIGINAL: angie4God
The only thing I find dissapointing with Dekkers books is what MiinmalX said, the lack of a real moral or Christian message. And I agree, the stories can be kind of disturbing. It's like you have to really dig to find a Christian message in there. I might as well read Stephen King. I'm definitely not going to read Boneman's daughters.
The Christian message is there. The key, like you said, is that sometimes you have to dig for it. Which I suppose is not always great if that is what you are looking for. But for secular readers, it is fantastic because that is just what they are not looking for. Yet the message is there for them to see if they are paying attention. In the first few chapters of "BoneMan's Daughters" there is a reference to the prophecies in Isaiah and how they apply to Jesus. Yet they are just mentioned in an offhand way, so as not to distract from the story.
I see his books as being not for proselytizing, but for planting seeds. And I think he does a really good job of it.
_____________________________
"Human beings make life so interesting. Do you know that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to invent boredom? Quite astonishing..."
- Death (from the book "Hogfather" by Terry Pratchett)
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RE: Ted Dekker - 6/19/2009 12:42:19 PM
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matthewjc
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That's ok. it's funny. i'll read it anyway. I've read all his books i've liked more than i've disliked.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Palyxandra
quote:
ORIGINAL: matthewjc
oh man I just bought it
I'm sorry I couldn't help but laugh when I read your message! I could just see your face dropping and you looking all sad. AW!
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RE: Ted Dekker - 6/21/2009 12:07:56 AM
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ManimalX
Posts: 2558
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quote:
ORIGINAL: angie4God
The only thing I find dissapointing with Dekkers books is what MiinmalX said, the lack of a real moral or Christian message. And I agree, the stories can be kind of disturbing. It's like you have to really dig to find a Christian message in there. I might as well read Stephen King. I'm definitely not going to read Boneman's daughters.
In all fairness, the Circle trilogy is a well done Christian allegory. It takes a fairly intimate knowledge of the God of Scripture to write about Him the way Dekker did in Black, Red, and White.
_____________________________
"And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth." - 2nd Timothy 2:24,25
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RE: Ted Dekker - 6/22/2009 2:35:52 PM
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jonfortean6
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I'm checking Adam out of the library today. I hope it's good.
I'm also looking to check out some Stephen King. Has anyone read Hearts in Atlantis? I want read it, but if it has any major language in it, I'm not getting it. And the library I'm going to also has The Stand, but It looks really long. Is it worth it?
_____________________________
Why should I gain from His reward? I cannot give an answer. But this I know with all my heart: His wounds have paid my ransom.
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RE: Ted Dekker - 6/22/2009 6:01:59 PM
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Epistemological
Posts: 25
Joined: 6/14/2009
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jonfortean6
I'm checking Adam out of the library today. I hope it's good.
I'm also looking to check out some Stephen King. Has anyone read Hearts in Atlantis? I want read it, but if it has any major language in it, I'm not getting it. And the library I'm going to also has The Stand, but It looks really long. Is it worth it?
The Stand is often graphic, but I enjoyed it. Then again, I read it as an agnostic.
It's been a while since I've read Hearts in Atlantis, but I don't remember anything too bad. If you're a King fan you should be able to handle it.
_____________________________
"I know, Lord, why You utter no answer. You are Yourself the answer. Before Your face all questions die away; what other answers would suffice?" - C.S. Lewis, Till We Have Faces
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RE: Ted Dekker - 6/22/2009 10:16:13 PM
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ManimalX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jonfortean6
I'm checking Adam out of the library today. I hope it's good.
I'm also looking to check out some Stephen King. Has anyone read Hearts in Atlantis? I want read it, but if it has any major language in it, I'm not getting it. And the library I'm going to also has The Stand, but It looks really long. Is it worth it?
Hearts in Atlantis is a superb book, or more properly, collection of stories. It isn't one story, it is two novellas and three short stories over a series of decades that are all connected, and even have some connections to King's Dark Tower series. I don't remember, but it would be safe to assume that there is probably at least some foul language. King has never been shy about writing dialogue the way people actually talk, warts and all.
_____________________________
"And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth." - 2nd Timothy 2:24,25
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RE: Ted Dekker - 6/23/2009 8:40:19 AM
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E_Lin
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From: Cincinnati, OH
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I just finished reading "BoneMan's Daughters" today. That book was beyond impressive. I personally think it is his best novel to date. The suspense was killing me, and I couldn't wait to get through it. It would make a great movie, if it were done right. He has certainly solidified his position among the greats of the genre.
I would put this book up against anything written by Dean Koontz or Stephen King. It may not be the best of the lot, but it will hold its own nonetheless. It is so intense I cannot recommend that every Christian read it. Not all will be able to handle it. But for the non-believer that reads it, it is a wonderful representation of Christ's sacrifice for those who the devil tries to steal. It is essentially a very well done, and disturbing, allegory.
_____________________________
"Human beings make life so interesting. Do you know that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to invent boredom? Quite astonishing..."
- Death (from the book "Hogfather" by Terry Pratchett)
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RE: Ted Dekker - 6/24/2009 12:36:55 AM
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ManimalX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: E_Lin
But for the non-believer that reads it, it is a wonderful representation of Christ's sacrifice for those who the devil tries to steal. It is essentially a very well done, and disturbing, allegory.
I mostly agree with what you wrote up to this point, but I didn't get this from the book at all.
(slight spoilers possible)
Could you explain why you think this is a good allegory? It is definitely a lesson in not being an absent father, but to call it a Christian allegory is a big stretch. The protagonist was only concerned with his own ends. The protagonist did evil to achieve his ends. The protagonist didn't sacrifice himself to save anyone. Granted, he saved his daughter, but in my opinion he got pretty "dirty" to do so... Jesus did none of those things.
_____________________________
"And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth." - 2nd Timothy 2:24,25
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RE: Ted Dekker - 6/24/2009 5:51:44 PM
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jonfortean6
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Not trying to turn this into a morality thread, but I went to the library to check out a SK book, and in the second sentence there was the F word. Sorry, not reading it.
_____________________________
Why should I gain from His reward? I cannot give an answer. But this I know with all my heart: His wounds have paid my ransom.
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RE: Ted Dekker - 6/25/2009 9:46:47 AM
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E_Lin
Posts: 1099
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From: Cincinnati, OH
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
Could you explain why you think this is a good allegory?
Many times when I read Ted Dekker books, I think about how I would judge it from the viewpoint of a non-believer. For the person who is never or only rarely exposed to a Christian message, I look at a book like this as putting things in a very "digestable" format. Maybe not a strong "allegory" for those of us who already know and believe, but for someone else it can open their eyes to see God's love and sacrifice put into a different light that they may have never thought they could accept. From that standpoint I think is a very useful "allegory".
Maybe that is not the best choice of words, but I don't know how else to put it right now.
_____________________________
"Human beings make life so interesting. Do you know that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to invent boredom? Quite astonishing..."
- Death (from the book "Hogfather" by Terry Pratchett)
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RE: Ted Dekker - 6/25/2009 10:24:39 AM
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uncabeeil
Posts: 4932
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Joisey. Got a problem wit dat?
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Yep, he was warned. Coupla times.
_____________________________
"It don't do to fight with God cuz He always wins.
He bloodies your nose and then gives you a ride home on his bike"
Rich Mullins
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RE: Ted Dekker - 6/25/2009 6:26:59 PM
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ManimalX
Posts: 2558
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quote:
ORIGINAL: E_Lin
quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
Could you explain why you think this is a good allegory?
Many times when I read Ted Dekker books, I think about how I would judge it from the viewpoint of a non-believer. For the person who is never or only rarely exposed to a Christian message, I look at a book like this as putting things in a very "digestable" format. Maybe not a strong "allegory" for those of us who already know and believe, but for someone else it can open their eyes to see God's love and sacrifice put into a different light that they may have never thought they could accept. From that standpoint I think is a very useful "allegory".
Maybe that is not the best choice of words, but I don't know how else to put it right now.
Thanks for the clarification. I am always looking for those things as well, I guess we just saw this story differently :)
_____________________________
"And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth." - 2nd Timothy 2:24,25
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RE: Ted Dekker - 6/26/2009 12:45:36 AM
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JHerr
Posts: 333
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From: Michigan
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While I do think that swearing in books is...off putting, I don't think it should be banned. Heck, the bible swears sometimes (although I do completely understand the difference, please register that was my attempt at sarcasm)
_____________________________
My teaching is not my own. It comes from him who sent me. If anyone chooses to do God's will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak of my own. John 7:16-17
http://vaporzone.blogspot.com/
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RE: Ted Dekker - 6/27/2009 2:32:27 AM
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ManimalX
Posts: 2558
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jonfortean6
quote:
Didn't anyone warn you? That's not just the second sentence - it's every page!!!
I wasn't expecting that bad language, and it just caught me offguard in the second sentence 
But I'm not even going to bother debating about it, if you guys are going to hold fast to the belief that it's okay to curse in books, I doubt there's anything I can do to convince you otherwise...
I'm gonna read Adam by the Dekkerman, and tell you what I thought. Maybe it'll be boring 
I am all about clean language, but I also try not to live in too much of an insulated bubble. Sometimes excessive use of "bad" words when they are blatantly unneeded is offputting to me (such as in Transformers 2), but sometimes there is just no better way to write a character than to let them speak the way people really speak. Yeah, that is a very subjective standard that I can only use personally, so take it for what it is ;)
_____________________________
"And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth." - 2nd Timothy 2:24,25
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RE: Ted Dekker - 6/28/2009 3:39:26 AM
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E_Lin
Posts: 1099
Joined: 9/14/2008
From: Cincinnati, OH
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
...but sometimes there is just no better way to write a character than to let them speak the way people really speak. Yeah, that is a very subjective standard that I can only use personally, so take it for what it is ;)
I don't think that is such a subjective standard as you think. I look at it that way myself, as I am sure many others do. The fact of the matter is, many non-Christians either talk like that or are not bothered by others using that language. To think otherwise is akin to living in a bubble, much like you said.
That is not to say that a person must read books with bad language. Quite to the contrary, it is a free country, and if you don't want to read books like that you do not have to. My wife, for example, will not read books that contain swearing. I on the other hand, am not bothered by it in the least. Then again I have spent more time around a lot more unsavory characters than she has over the years. It takes an awful lot to bother me, and I can only think of one book that has ever caused me to put it down because I just couldn't take the content.
One of the things I really like about Ted Dekker is that he can write a book every bit as suspenseful as anything put out by Dean Koontz, and as unnerving as Steven King, while at the same time making curse words unnecessary. Yeah, while it is true a lot of people do talk like that, he is able to write books like that for people who largely do not. And at the same time shows people who think you have to have bad language in one of these novels, that you indeed do not.
Personally, every non-believer I have recommended a Ted Dekker book to has liked it. (of course I only recommend them to people who read that kind of book...)
_____________________________
"Human beings make life so interesting. Do you know that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to invent boredom? Quite astonishing..."
- Death (from the book "Hogfather" by Terry Pratchett)
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