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RE: Is anyone listening? - 6/26/2009 9:00:53 PM
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TMeeks
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RustyCarr
Wow! Very good pick of scripture, TMeeks!
quote:
John 1:1-4
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of men.
1John 1:1
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched--this we proclaim concerning the Word of life.
May I try to expound on this scripture? Think about this. Where would mankind be without words? Sort of leaves you completely helpless, doesn't it. Just think about how important words are for everything we do, for life essentially. Then think about how life would be without TRUE words, true words that Adam and Eve knew in the beginning.
Rusty
And, the Bible says that we are the only creatures made in the image of God. And, what sets us apart from the animals? Words. While some animals can sign, and some birds can replicate sounds, none can carry on a long conversation about abstract concepts... such as God.
So... even the most familiar of Scriptures has a LOT of new life in it once we begin to EXPLORE it deeply. Thy WORD have I hid in my heart... that I might not sin against Thee!
Even so, Jesus, the very Word itself told us about people that had ears; but, not ears to hear. Obviously every speaker should do their utmost to be interesting and informative. But, when a heart isn't ready to hear, it won't be heard. That's why praying, "Lord, cause everyone here to open their ears and hearts to the truthes you have for us from your Word, that You might be Glorified. " is probably not a bad prayer to say before each and every service. 
< Message edited by TMeeks -- 6/26/2009 9:07:04 PM >
_____________________________
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Is "Left" vs. "Right" really accurate?- Check out the Liberty Dial!
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RE: Is anyone listening? - 6/29/2009 12:03:00 AM
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yankeedoodled
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The Bible acknowledges that there are a great variety of believers as the Apostles were different kinds of men. the Bible even acknowledges that many people have different weaknesses as many also have differing gifts. As such Preachers have a great diversity to preach to and to draw from, what matters is they reach the hearts and spirits of the flock. As the Lord admonished; FEED MY SHEEP.
God Bless those that do.
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RE: Is anyone listening? - 6/29/2009 9:09:04 PM
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DoveMinistries
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Preach the words of Jesus Christ and not those of man and they will hear. For the words of Jesus Christ never fall to the ground and go out and speak to whom He intends. And they will hear, because His sheep know His voice and follow Him.
All of the power of God, is in the Gosples of Jesus Christ, and they speak to all, great and small. They speak of God, they speak of the Son, they speak of the Spirit, the Man, the Teacher, the Sufferer, the Restorer and on and on.
How could anyone not listen to His words being spoke. Folks dont fall asleep and all that are able, are usally on there feet.
I know whats coming next, so I will go ahead and respond to that. If your not excited about what Jesus Christ did for you. Then maybe you should find a church that will let you get excited. Who else has died for you that you might be saved? Folks without Him, we did not stand a chance.
You read ever word, didn't you? lol, Jesus is the power of preaching.
God Bless
R Dove
_____________________________
The Consummation of Love,
Love has been perfected amoung us in this; that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world. 1John 4:17
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RE: Is anyone listening? - 7/1/2009 7:21:32 AM
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DeliveredDarling
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We are experiencing this in our church. many have fallen away from the fold, in fact, our attendance has been very low lately. The problem is the preaching! Our preacher is preacher the tough to hear messages causing our congregants to squirm a little too much-so now they have stopped coming.
They can't stop the conviction if they don't hear it! I think we should consider the mentality of our congregations. It's not always the case that a preacher is not tending his flock, sometimes it's more that the flock doesn't want to be tended!
A preacher who responds to this mentality is more about the numbers than the souls. The messages don't need to change necessarily, the hearts and minds need a makeover.
Blaming the preacher is just an excuse to justify backsliding behavior! The preacher has a responsibility of his flock only to the extent that he teaches and loves them biblically-not ensuring their behavior.
In Romans, it says that no one can come to the Father unless he is drawn by the HS. Maybe the church is going through a purging. maybe God is working in their life and people just can;t see it yet.
Point being, a pastor has a tremendous responsibility, if he is preaching the Word and the people do not respond, it's on them, not on him.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Is anyone listening? - 7/1/2009 2:20:21 PM
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mvic
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quote:
Point being, a pastor has a tremendous responsibility, if he is preaching the Word and the people do not respond, it's on them, not on him.
I wonder ... can a shepherd say: Sorry, I lost all the sheep in the meadow. They just wouldn't follow me.
The point of my thread is that the responsibility should go beyond just preaching or being a good preacher. The pastor should be proactively involved 24/7 with everyone in his congregation, know them by name, and be there for them in times of sadness and times of joy.
I knew a priest years ago who used to stand outside the church at the end of mass and greet the people leaving. He not only knew them by name, but he added something in his conversation relating to them: Hello Paul, how's the new job? Hi Mary has your son settled in the new school yet? etc ...
He visited people at their homes, and in hospital. He did the rounds in the local schools and met teachers and pupils.
This type of priest/preacher doesn't seem to exist very much anymore. They all seem busy with committees, paper work, and what have you.
Perhaps it's me. Perhaps I'm expecting too much.
_____________________________
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RE: Is anyone listening? - 7/1/2009 4:18:17 PM
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DeliveredDarling
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quote:
The point of my thread is that the responsibility should go beyond just preaching or being a good preacher. The pastor should be proactively involved 24/7 with everyone in his congregation, know them by name, and be there for them in times of sadness and times of joy.
I don't disagree with this at all. I really liked the reference of a hireling! But the bible does say this:
Romans 14:11-12
For it is written, As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow and every tongue shall give praise to God. So then each one of us shall give account of himself to God.
As I understand it, once we have heard, we can't plead ignorance. We are then responsible for having heard the Good News! He tells us that it is better for us to NOT have heard than for us to have heard and not do anything about it.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Is anyone listening? - 7/1/2009 4:36:09 PM
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TMeeks
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mvic
I wonder ... can a shepherd say: Sorry, I lost all the sheep in the meadow. They just wouldn't follow me.
Great observation!
quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
We are experiencing this in our church. many have fallen away from the fold, in fact, our attendance has been very low lately. The problem is the preaching! Our preacher is preacher the tough to hear messages causing our congregants to squirm a little too much-so now they have stopped coming.
Many, many years ago, I was a choir director and I taught the choir that whether or not one achieves a difficult high note is largely due to how it is approached... from the bottom or the top. If we reach up to the note, tilting our chins upward, we will likely fail to hit the note. But, if we tilt our chins DOWN and straighten our bodies upward to look DOWN on the high note, we are more likely to hit it perfectly.
This perfectly relates to how a pastor is to preach tough to hear messages. All too often it fits the description of beating the sheep. And, when this is the case, of course they will leave. But, there is another approach and that is to approach the difficult message so that one is pulled upward in their spirit and not downward. If a congregation is sqirming, no matter how difficult the topic, then my guess is that the pastor looking down on the congregation (and the issue) rather than looking up to triumph and the solution... which is Christ.
_____________________________
http://focusonliberty.blogspot.com
Is "Left" vs. "Right" really accurate?- Check out the Liberty Dial!
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RE: Is anyone listening? - 7/1/2009 4:59:02 PM
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judahwarrior
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Some people preach and there will be no touch of God in it.
My Pastors at my church always spend hours and days in preparation to their sermons and I believe that's why every Sunday it's spirit led.
For me personally, the message would be just for me. I could be going through the week of loneliness and then on Sunday service God uses my pastor to preach about how God's always there for me.
It's important for pastors to spend time in prayer and get the direction where God is going. But that's not just for the pastors but for all of us for God called us all to be preist and kings.
And let me just encourage you with this that the Word of God never comes back in void. It pierces the hearts of men.
Pray that God will manifest himself in the sanctuary that his presence and power will overflow that area, keeping distractions away.
And pray that God's word would just be sown deeply in the congregation's hearts because you (the preacher) are planting seeds. It's someone elses job to water the seeds (mentors, cell group leaders, etc). Also pray that it won't be you speaking but allow God to use your mouth to say the things that God wants to say.
Thanks!
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RE: Is anyone listening? - 7/1/2009 5:20:11 PM
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DeliveredDarling
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quote:
Many, many years ago, I was a choir director and I taught the choir that whether or not one achieves a difficult high note is largely due to how it is approached... from the bottom or the top. If we reach up to the note, tilting our chins upward, we will likely fail to hit the note. But, if we tilt our chins DOWN and straighten our bodies upward to look DOWN on the high note, we are more likely to hit it perfectly.
This perfectly relates to how a pastor is to preach tough to hear messages. All too often it fits the description of beating the sheep. And, when this is the case, of course they will leave. But, there is another approach and that is to approach the difficult message so that one is pulled upward in their spirit and not downward. If a congregation is sqirming, no matter how difficult the topic, then my guess is that the pastor looking down on the congregation (and the issue) rather than looking up to triumph and the solution... which is Christ.
I don't see that as being the case with my preacher. I see it more as the people are looking to feel good and he is not accommodating them. I don't feel beaten down after hearing his messages and I don't know anyone that does. I know attendance is down because I don't see the pews full. Summer is used as an excuse to relax. If people feel the need to relax more than they need to worship and honor God, that's not the preachers fault, that's their hardened heart.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Is anyone listening? - 7/1/2009 6:57:49 PM
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DoveMinistries
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I have found that people just want the truth. Not and opinion, and thats what a lot of churches are doing, trying to make fancy messages instead of just speaking to uncompromised word of God.
For were the word of God is, there is power. If someone needs conviction, God will take care of that through His word, likewise with the one that needs incouragement, and do it with the same message.
The scripture plainly tells us what to go and preach, but it gets messed up by man steping in and trying to make it his message. Now this is only my opinion on this matter. Plus, I think there maybe a little separation going on.
Some folks have made money there God and had rather hang on to it than give it to the church. By not attending they save there self from embarrassment of not tithing. Sad, but I have heard this several times already.
God Bless
R Dove
_____________________________
The Consummation of Love,
Love has been perfected amoung us in this; that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world. 1John 4:17
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RE: Is anyone listening? - 7/1/2009 7:30:42 PM
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yankeedoodled
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IMHO a good preacher seeks the heart of God diligently and finding it brings it to his flock. They recognizing it as pearls/jewels of great price are gratified. I have seen far to much tedious obsessing on trivial matters while leaving off the weightier matters.
Matthew 23:23
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
They had problems with recognizing the weightier matters back then too.
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RE: Is anyone listening? - 7/1/2009 7:43:14 PM
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SonInMe1
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Our church attendance is usually a little lower in the summer because..well...its summer in south Florida. Its hot. Most are not native to south Florida and the kids are off from school so they take vacations at this time of year.
I would say, if your church is not responding to the preaching and some are leaving...maybe those who are leaving....were never there to begin with. Those "left behind" will be more commited and unified.
Now, maybe its the pastor...maybe its the flock. Hard to say.
A preached message should never make one...comfortable for lack of a better word. If you come away from a sermon saying I am right where I need to be, it probably was an ineffective sermon...or your just a great christian.
Now, how many of us can say we are great christians?
A message with a punch does not have to be offensive....and not all sermons have to be fire and brimstone. They must all be...
bible centered....
Jesus centered....
make a specific point....
and communicate effectivly.
My pastor, once again it is very easy to praise such an effective communicator, has been accused, I think, to be an "entertainer" because his sermons are NOT boring. Well, if he can communicate a point and do it where everyone pays attention, if that is entertainment, then so be it.
I doubt anytime Jesus spoke it was boring. He used many parables and illustrations in His "sermons" and spoke plainly to the people so they might understand. When Jesus spoke...people listened.
An example....my church's website.... www.cbglades.com Take a look....interesting....eh?
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Is anyone listening? - 7/2/2009 8:19:31 AM
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DeliveredDarling
Posts: 1782
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quote:
An example....my church's website.... www.cbglades.com Take a look....interesting....eh?
Well, it's an attention grabbing title for sure, lol!
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Is anyone listening? - 7/2/2009 9:12:10 AM
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RustyCarr
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In short, I will just say that most congregations have learned to look at each other and usually regulate their commitment and service to God based on what everyone else is doing, rather than a heartfelt love for our Father and one another.
I think a True church would be led by a gifted teacher surrounded by a number of wise and faithful men who have set goals for (1) "Training them up in the way they should go," (2) Providing as many fellowship gatherings (picnics, camps, BBQs, etc for providing happy memories) centered on being committed friends in the Lord separate from worldly influences, (3) abundent opportunities for teaching and learning the full Truth and its proper application and understanding.
Love God first and He will teach you HOW to love family, friends, and neighbors. And doesn't He promise blessings following obedience?!
Rusty
_____________________________
It is better to obey God rather than men. The Truth, God's word, within is the lamp that guides our feet. -For the Lord gives wisdom, and from His mouth come knowledge and understanding. Prov. 2:6-
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RE: Is anyone listening? - 7/2/2009 11:28:51 AM
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DeliveredDarling
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quote:
In short, I will just say that most congregations have learned to look at each other and usually regulate their commitment and service to God based on what everyone else is doing, rather than a heartfelt love for our Father and one another.
I think a True church would be led by a gifted teacher surrounded by a number of wise and faithful men who have set goals for (1) "Training them up in the way they should go," (2) Providing as many fellowship gatherings (picnics, camps, BBQs, etc for providing happy memories) centered on being committed friends in the Lord separate from worldly influences, (3) abundent opportunities for teaching and learning the full Truth and its proper application and understanding.
Love God first and He will teach you HOW to love family, friends, and neighbors. And doesn't He promise blessings following obedience?!
Rusty
I couldn't agree with you more on this. My church does an outstanding job of this. However, we are not perfect and have our faults too. The qualities listed above, are the example of a Christ centered church!
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Is anyone listening? - 7/2/2009 12:02:32 PM
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TMeeks
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This is a critical and powerful observation.
The outlook of most Christians is a form of humanism that is masked by 'concern for the lost' or 'worship' that really is ME and EXPERIENCE centered rather than God centered.
Even those churches that proudly declare that they are Gospel Preaching churches fail to recognize that their entire structure is based on a form of humanism... a people-centered focus on the lost.
I've seen the bitter end of these errors and have come to believe that ONLY a GOD CENTERED focus ever really truly works in leading people to the abundant life that Jesus clearly promised. And, the key to this focus on God is to slow down the activity level and drink deeply of the person of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Once refreshed, we then spontaneously overflow with His love, joy, peace and compassion to others.
Stop, listen, reflect, ponder, contemplate, love and let your cup be filled to overflowing. Let the water flood over the top and spread out to refresh others.
quote:
ORIGINAL: RustyCarr
In short, I will just say that most congregations have learned to look at each other and usually regulate their commitment and service to God based on what everyone else is doing, rather than a heartfelt love for our Father and one another.
I think a True church would be led by a gifted teacher surrounded by a number of wise and faithful men who have set goals for (1) "Training them up in the way they should go," (2) Providing as many fellowship gatherings (picnics, camps, BBQs, etc for providing happy memories) centered on being committed friends in the Lord separate from worldly influences, (3) abundent opportunities for teaching and learning the full Truth and its proper application and understanding.
Love God first and He will teach you HOW to love family, friends, and neighbors. And doesn't He promise blessings following obedience?!
Rusty
_____________________________
http://focusonliberty.blogspot.com
Is "Left" vs. "Right" really accurate?- Check out the Liberty Dial!
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RE: Is anyone listening? - 7/3/2009 2:43:56 AM
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zamdad
Posts: 1352
Joined: 4/8/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TMeeks
This is a critical and powerful observation.
The outlook of most Christians is a form of humanism that is masked by 'concern for the lost' or 'worship' that really is ME and EXPERIENCE centered rather than God centered.
Even those churches that proudly declare that they are Gospel Preaching churches fail to recognize that their entire structure is based on a form of humanism... a people-centered focus on the lost.
I've seen the bitter end of these errors and have come to believe that ONLY a GOD CENTERED focus ever really truly works in leading people to the abundant life that Jesus clearly promised. And, the key to this focus on God is to slow down the activity level and drink deeply of the person of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Once refreshed, we then spontaneously overflow with His love, joy, peace and compassion to others.
Stop, listen, reflect, ponder, contemplate, love and let your cup be filled to overflowing. Let the water flood over the top and spread out to refresh others.
quote:
ORIGINAL: RustyCarr
In short, I will just say that most congregations have learned to look at each other and usually regulate their commitment and service to God based on what everyone else is doing, rather than a heartfelt love for our Father and one another.
I think a True church would be led by a gifted teacher surrounded by a number of wise and faithful men who have set goals for (1) "Training them up in the way they should go," (2) Providing as many fellowship gatherings (picnics, camps, BBQs, etc for providing happy memories) centered on being committed friends in the Lord separate from worldly influences, (3) abundent opportunities for teaching and learning the full Truth and its proper application and understanding.
Love God first and He will teach you HOW to love family, friends, and neighbors. And doesn't He promise blessings following obedience?!
Rusty
I think you are really on to something here, TMEEKS. For a couple of years in my blog on this site, I spoke/wrote about the desire to slow down. It seems that we are driven, however, by the pace of our culture. Slowing down and being intentional about God and His word run contrary to the culture. Unfortunately, because our worldview is shaped by what comes across our TV screens, we're not likely to listen to anyone unless they happen to be saying something that scratches the itch in our ears.
_____________________________
Never make someone else a priority while you remain an option!
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RE: Is anyone listening? - 7/3/2009 4:37:56 AM
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mvic
Posts: 1888
Joined: 1/17/2008
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quote:
Stop, listen, reflect, ponder, contemplate, love and let your cup be filled to overflowing. Let the water flood over the top and spread out to refresh others.
Agreed.
In this day and age of instant news, sound-bites, quick quotations, and knee-jerk reactions a good preacher would know when to STOP; take a deep breath, and deliver God's message slowly, calmly and in a crystal clear language that all can understand.
We too, should remember to STOP, and slowly listen and act on God's Words before we rush to our next very urgent, must be done now, instantly, task which we have set ourselves.
_____________________________
My Book
Time For Reflections The Blog you'll like !
Visit http://www.holyvisions.co.uk
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RE: Is anyone listening? - 7/3/2009 10:28:07 AM
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RustyCarr
Posts: 972
Joined: 3/11/2009
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mvic
quote:
Stop, listen, reflect, ponder, contemplate, love and let your cup be filled to overflowing. Let the water flood over the top and spread out to refresh others.
Agreed.
In this day and age of instant news, sound-bites, quick quotations, and knee-jerk reactions a good preacher would know when to STOP; take a deep breath, and deliver God's message slowly, calmly and in a crystal clear language that all can understand.
We too, should remember to STOP, and slowly listen and act on God's Words before we rush to our next very urgent, must be done now, instantly, task which we have set ourselves.
There are several very good posts here. Perhaps we should look at what is inside the devil's toolbox.
1. Distractions--Keep God's people in a frenzy distracted by EVERYTHING going on in the world, they will then try to take up too much at once or simply pursue their own dreams without focusing on God and allowing Him to be the source of their blessings.
2. Materialism--You find this in the distractions drawer.
3. Worry--this happens after Christians have become distracted. They look around see many things to worry about. They see the filth and debauchery coming into their home via the TV, news, movies, etc. the see the misguided direction of government... Yet, too often the previous distractions have weakened their understanding. They become disunited arguing amongst themselves about scripture, conviction, Truth. The Church in America is like this: 1Co 3:1 Brothers, I could not address you as spiritual but as worldly —mere infants in Christ.
1Co 3:2 I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready.
1Co 3:3 You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere men?
4. Misdirection--send leaders who are capable of scratching itching ears, but lacking enough understanding, faith, and courage to invoke the power of the Holy Spirit to convict to repentance and renewal and to courage to stand abgainst the lies and deception.
5. Deception-- one of the most powerful tools. It convinces people that God is in control while they "Be still" in the recliner doing nothing to serve Him in furthering the kingdom of God. Just keep scratching ears one day a week and wait for God or someone else to step forward to do what God has asked all of us to do.
We need a breakthrough, a pardigm shift in Christianity. An awakening to the kingdom of God "within you." When you know, love, and DO the Truth in concert with brothers and sisters in Christ, you will be known by the love you have for one another...and the love you have for God, righteousness, and passing that wisdom to your offspring.
"Thy kingdom come... Thy will be done.."
Let's DO something!
Rusty
< Message edited by RustyCarr -- 7/3/2009 10:39:10 AM >
_____________________________
It is better to obey God rather than men. The Truth, God's word, within is the lamp that guides our feet. -For the Lord gives wisdom, and from His mouth come knowledge and understanding. Prov. 2:6-
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RE: Is anyone listening? - 7/4/2009 12:20:45 AM
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yankeedoodled
Posts: 197
Joined: 5/29/2006
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Mark 4:19
And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.
yankeedoodled:
Much as you have said.
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