Is anyone listening? (Full Version)

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mvic -> Is anyone listening? (6/18/2009 7:58:26 PM)

This post is aimed primarily at pastors, ministers and people of the church; although others can join in please with their views. That's why I posted here rather than in the Ministry Leaders folder.

Pastors: No doubt you deliver a great sermon every Sunday in church. But what if your congregation is not listening and not acting on what you say? What if you feel your words are falling on deaf ears? What do you do then?

Do you change the tone of your sermons, if not the message? Do you become more proactive in ensuring your flock follows your advice? Or do you consider your responsibilities over once you've delivered an excellent sermon?



navyblueret -> RE: Is anyone listening? (6/18/2009 8:29:38 PM)

Huh? Sorry, I was talking, and didn't hear you. [;)]

In my lifetime, I can count on three fingers the number of Pastors, capable of shifting gears, when they know full well, the congregation was not listening, or not understanding. I am not a minister, and therefore am unable to relate to the pressures of preaching. I have had occasion to speak publicly, and was sometimes forced out of my comfort zone (prepared scripting) and required to find the heart of the crowd. Sometimes yes, sometimes no, capability to do so, but I was loosing them anyway, so had to try.

I know a minister, who gave a well organized sermon on respecting the older generation. If there had been more than just a few young people in the pews, they would have been blessed to hear the words. The congregation, that day, was predominantly over sixty (1/3) and over 70 (5/16). Needless to say, those that complimented the service, did so through tight lips.[:)]

We have a number of ministers in this crowd, so I will zip my lip, and wait for more accurate addresses to the question.

In Messiah. Arley



SavedByGraceMD -> RE: Is anyone listening? (6/18/2009 9:54:12 PM)

mvic, this is a good question, I will look forward to the replies you get from those called to preach the Word.

Another side to this question, and maybe this can be a new topic would be....

How long do people, who call themselves Christians, go to church, sit under the preaching of the word, yet not let it change them. How long do we go to church just to go, yet remain unwilling to change, unwilling to apply what we learn in church.

After all, this is a 2 way street, the Pastors can't preach, teach, and live it out for us. We must take it and use it to become who God made us to be.



slushie -> RE: Is anyone listening? (6/18/2009 10:11:24 PM)

Maybe for those who just sit in church without change church is merely another place to nap. At some point it might be all or nothing. I'm not sure.

Waiting for the responses... I know my pastor does feel that he's losing the congregation. One time he started a sermon with the words, "I want to quit." Attention grabber, definitely.



SavedByGraceMD -> RE: Is anyone listening? (6/18/2009 10:20:56 PM)

I wonder, can a Pastor sense he is losing his church before they start walking out the doors?



walkin2e -> RE: Is anyone listening? (6/18/2009 10:46:37 PM)

quote:

Do you change the tone of your sermons, if not the message? Do you become more proactive in ensuring your flock follows your advice? Or do you consider your responsibilities over once you've delivered an excellent sermon?


No, the message is not changed because the sermon delivered that particular day to that particular crowd was the one the Lord wanted me to preach. I just deliver the message, and it is the Lord who works on hearts. It is sometimes disheartening to preach your heart out, and to think that "no one is listening". However, the Lord has said His word would not return void (Is 55 v 11).

Several years ago, I preached at our local radio station. The dj, a strong Christian man, told me he knew my Daddy...He was a dual occupation pastor...sold furniture and preached. He told me back then, that Daddy once looked at him after he was cursing, and steadfastly said "I wish you wouldn't talk like that!". The dj went on then to relate how those few words brought conviction on him, and the Lord saved him.

I recently preached a funeral for a WWII veteran. Attending the funeral were several members of the American Legion. At the monthly meeting a few weeks later, another WWII veteran stood up, and said "Our Chaplain (that's me) preached a wonderful message at Hoppy's funeral". Several other members stood up and talked about the funeral service. Mind you, most of these people are not Christians, and do not attend church regularly. But God's message and word pierced their hearts. The results belong to Him.

walkin2e



yankeedoodled -> RE: Is anyone listening? (6/18/2009 11:16:22 PM)

Politics stand in the way to most people not receivng God's Word, it is no small undertaking to reverse the effects, but the rewards (by God) are enormous. The ground and the seed vary, but toil we must. Time is short.



mvic -> RE: Is anyone listening? (6/19/2009 8:21:50 AM)

Thank you for your replies so far. I hope more pastors in particular join in this discussion, (as well as others of course).

My question to pastors: Where does your responsibility end?

Is it enough to deliver an eloquent sermon which would make William Shakespeare proud? (He was English don't you know?) Or should you go out looking for the lost sheep, grab it by the neck, and return it to the fold?

If you know your congregation is deaf do you continue to preach your sermon then grab your clubs and head for the golf course? Or do you become more proactive?

I believe that pastors have a special responsibilty for the people in their care and when the time comes God will ask them, in particular, how well they did their job.

Perhaps I'm wrong!



TheTartanTammy -> RE: Is anyone listening? (6/19/2009 10:11:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mvic

Thank you for your replies so far. I hope more pastors in particular join in this discussion, (as well as others of course).

My question to pastors: Where does your responsibility end?

Is it enough to deliver an eloquent sermon which would make William Shakespeare proud? (He was English don't you know?) Or should you go out looking for the lost sheep, grab it by the neck, and return it to the fold?

If you know your congregation is deaf do you continue to preach your sermon then grab your clubs and head for the golf course? Or do you become more proactive?

I believe that pastors have a special responsibilty for the people in their care and when the time comes God will ask them, in particular, how well they did their job.

Perhaps I'm wrong!


I think that all who are called to preach and teach the word have an ongoing responsibility to make improvements along the way. However, I believe that as true Christianity is a relationship and not a religion, so all who are born again have a personal responsibility to the Lord and to fellow Christians as well as the lost around them.

We are to feed the sheep and tend the lambs, but I do not think that it means wet nursing them or wrapping them in cotton wool. Like our children, we have to help them take responsibility for themselves to a large degree.

Of course if those under our care are showing signs of wandering, then we have a duty to offer correction, but I do not think it wise to force correction.



rcjames -> RE: Is anyone listening? (6/19/2009 10:35:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mvic

This post is aimed primarily at pastors, ministers and people of the church; although others can join in please with their views. That's why I posted here rather than in the Ministry Leaders folder.

Pastors: No doubt you deliver a great sermon every Sunday in church. But what if your congregation is not listening and not acting on what you say? What if you feel your words are falling on deaf ears? What do you do then?

Do you change the tone of your sermons, if not the message? Do you become more proactive in ensuring your flock follows your advice? Or do you consider your responsibilities over once you've delivered an excellent sermon?


In my opinion if that is happening to a Pastor or Elder; then they should spend a lot more time in sincere prayer to know the Word of God that God wants delivered to the folks that will be there listening.

Being a leader is a heavy responsibility although many do not think so; Scripture states;

(Heb 13:17) Yield to those leading you, and be submissive, for they watch for your souls, as those who must give account, that they may do it with joy and not with grief; for that is unprofitable for you.

I must give an account to God for the souls of those whom I have leadership over. So I want to say to them only what God would have me to say to them, love them, rebuke them, edify them, console them, guide them, and then watch them grow in the Faith.

My great grandfather who was a Baptist minister for 61 years told me as a young missionary that when one is going to preach they should study the Word as if there were no Holy Ghost. Then pray as though one's life depended on it (for it does), then preach by the guidance of the Holy Ghost as if one had never studied at all.

Has worked for me for 46 years.

As a side note; a preacher/teacher must have absolute confidence that what they are teaching is the truth and it is life changing, or it will not come across as such.

Thanks
RC



rcjames -> RE: Is anyone listening? (6/19/2009 10:38:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SavedByGraceMD

I wonder, can a Pastor sense he is losing his church before they start walking out the doors?


He had better be in better touch with the congregation than that or he ain't much of a Pastor to begin with.

He would be more of a hireling, and not a shepherd.


(Joh 10:12) But he who is a hireling and not the shepherd, who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and runs away. And the wolf catches them and scatters the sheep.

(Joh 10:13) The hireling flees, because he is a hireling and does not care for the sheep.

Thanks
RC



Focusing -> RE: Is anyone listening? (6/19/2009 11:47:20 AM)

quote:

But what if your congregation is not listening and not acting on what you say?

quote:

Do you become more proactive in ensuring your flock follows your advice?


Uhm ... sorry, but this, to me, sounds as if you believe the pastor should be controlling his flock. ??? Maybe it's just me, but I believe it's my pastor's position to teach me from the Word. And it's up to me to take in the teaching. My behavior may or may not have immediate outward changes that others can point to and say "Ah! She listened to the sermon given on such-and-such a day and is behaving properly."

ETA: While someone may indeed hear and choose to heed advice given by their pastor, sometimes the advice is heeded by one person at a different time in their life, for instance, when faced with a certain circumstance, than would be heeded by another.



navyblueret -> RE: Is anyone listening? (6/19/2009 12:10:47 PM)

desertgirl, Shalom.

Perhaps, the Pastor is the shepherd, who leads the sheep to pasture, and Biblical sustenance, alert to the needs of the flock, and protecting the flock from straying. All that, he/she does, but, still cannot 'chew' the fodder, for the flock, nor pass on pure sustenance, with no participation by the flock. The flock, once led to the pasture/word, must then do their part, by chewing on, and digesting the bounty of the pasture/word.

The Pastor/shepherd is, in a way, 'controlling' his flock, lest the flock trespass where it should not, and be charged with eating the fodder of the goat herd residing outside their own pasture. If we were completely capable of seeking, finding, evaluating, and determining what is good, safe, and right, for ourselves, what need have we for a shepherd, Shepherd, or God? I am happy, needing these, in reverse order, of course.

In Messiah. Arley



mvic -> RE: Is anyone listening? (6/20/2009 7:47:53 AM)

Thank you all for taking the time to write in.



Little_1 -> RE: Is anyone listening? (6/20/2009 8:19:48 AM)

There could be many reasons for a flock not listening and the Bible covers each one of them.

If a pastor/teacher/minister, etc has searched their heart before God and God does not reveal any problem, then they should faithfully continue to do what God called them to do until He tells them otherwise...

It is easy to preach/teach God's Word when there are many people standing behind someone encouraging them. However, 'what a preacher is made of spiritually' will be revealed if they remain faithful in the face of 'nothing seeming to happen' week in and week out / month in and month out... etc...

It may also be that God wants the pastor / teacher to move elsewhere... to speak elsewhere (see Matthew 10:14)... If the pastor / teacher is seeking after God, God will reveal His will... The pastor / teacher need not concern himself with results - that is God's job - they just need to concern themselves with obeying God's revealed will... God will deal with the results in His good timing...[:D]

Also, the fault may lie with the congregation (please see "Why are some Christians spiritually weak - Part 1" LINK).



yankeedoodled -> RE: Is anyone listening? (6/25/2009 10:19:24 PM)

mvic:
Is it enough to deliver an eloquent sermon which would make William Shakespeare proud? (He was English don't you know?) Or should you go out looking for the lost sheep, grab it by the neck, and return it to the fold?

christian:
Pride goeth before a fall, a dangerous condition for a Christian to enter unto. The sheep are lead NOT driven. The sheep follow, the goats prone to go their own way do so.
Understanding is for the wise, but the rod is for the back of the fool. I don't think the Lord wants fools of the human/self bent in heaven, but rather the wise sheep that lovingly, willingly follow.



growingseed -> RE: Is anyone listening? (6/25/2009 11:08:21 PM)

There really is only one message and that is Jesus died for our sins and everything we have life included is because of that sacrifice. We are to plant seeds and harvest, the Holy Spirit does even that through us. If we aren't pointing to the cross with our lives and what we say, you may need to regroup.



mvic -> RE: Is anyone listening? (6/26/2009 7:26:25 AM)

Yankeedoodled,

You are right. I may have over exagerated my statement to make a point.

Of course pastors should lead rather than force people into believing. My original point refers to those preachers/pastors who feel it is enough just to preach rather than be proactive in spreading the Word.



SonInMe1 -> RE: Is anyone listening? (6/26/2009 7:52:27 AM)

My pastor says if his sermons go long its because we are not listening fast enough.

Should a pastor...entertain his flock so they will listen?

My pastor is a teaching pastor and one thing he does in almost every sermon is give an illustration to make his points. He is very creative...

it has rained on us in the sanctuary...

he was rolled in, in a casket...

we had an elephant out front....


a small pool filled with fish with the accompanying fishing poles ( and of course since we are baptist, the fish dinner )

These are just a few....I gues the one that impacted me the most was a communion service. He illustrated many sins...asked us to write down on the piece of paper given to us, what our major sins were, and before communion, we were asked to walk up front and nail our piece of paper with our sins on it, to a wooden cross.

That was powerful.

So, I ask again, should a pastor "entertain" his flock...or just drone on for an hour?



Liveloved -> RE: Is anyone listening? (6/26/2009 10:53:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mvic

This post is aimed primarily at pastors, ministers and people of the church; although others can join in please with their views. That's why I posted here rather than in the Ministry Leaders folder.

Pastors: No doubt you deliver a great sermon every Sunday in church. But what if your congregation is not listening and not acting on what you say? What if you feel your words are falling on deaf ears? What do you do then?

Do you change the tone of your sermons, if not the message? Do you become more proactive in ensuring your flock follows your advice? Or do you consider your responsibilities over once you've delivered an excellent sermon?


I am. I do.

We had a guest pastor this past Sunday. He's been at our church about 3 or 4 times now and I've always enjoyed his messages.

As I was greeting him after this service, he told me he appreciates me because he can look at me and see that I am listening, engaged in what he is teaching. . . an active listener.

Anyway, just thought I'd offer that because he told me he appreciated 'seeing a good listener' as he was preaching (those are my words).



iamjc-s -> RE: Is anyone listening? (6/26/2009 11:13:09 AM)

I have been blessed to have 2 pastors in different states who taught not only WHAT Jesus taught, but HOW Jesus taught.

Jesus knew then that humans couldn't understand some Godly points, if just spoken, these would go right over the heads of most. Thus, Jesus spoke some things in parables with every-day things for those who were listening.

These 2 pastors, would give a life example & scripture TOGETHER, to help the children, the new believers & the simple-minded to understand.

I truely wish more pastors would be this way.

Also it can be productive to say the same thing in different ways, but counterproductive to say the same thing in the same way over & over again.



mvic -> RE: Is anyone listening? (6/26/2009 11:30:32 AM)

quote:

I gues the one that impacted me the most was a communion service. He illustrated many sins...asked us to write down on the piece of paper given to us, what our major sins were, and before communion, we were asked to walk up front and nail our piece of paper with our sins on it, to a wooden cross.


That's very powerful indeed. All pastors/priests should do this - especially during Easter week.

I'll mention it to our church.



TMeeks -> RE: Is anyone listening? (6/26/2009 5:11:41 PM)

It is the Bible's words that bring change to people's hearts, not our exposition. And, it's possible to hear the same words over and over without effect until one day something clicks in the hearer.

Where style and our exposition comes in is to simply make it easier for the hearer to focus, in a new way, on an old, familiar passage. In other words, everything said must point back, ultimately, to the specific words of Scripture so that the Holy Spirit can use that Scripture to change hearts and minds.

Where I think a lot of pastors and speakers do fall down is in failing to first PONDER IN DEPTH the meaning of long familiar passages. For instance... the following passage can seem pretty straightforward or it can be rich with meaning depending on how well the pastor/presenter has, themselves, delved into the depths of the implications.

John 1:1-4
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of men.

What was 'the beginning?' Why is Jesus called "the Word?" "Was with" and "Was" is an incredibly rich construction and verse 2 repeats it from another direction. And, that word, "NOTHING" is pretty powerful. What are the implications of THAT???

Tie that together with the FULL IMPLICATIONS OF:

1John 1:1
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched--this we proclaim concerning the Word of life.

And, you have a sermon that is so exciting I don't see how ANYONE would not listen and be moved. Can you imagine realizing that YOU have actually SEEN the very creator of all things with your very own eyes? Not only that, you have GAZED upon that creator intently as he taught and performed miracles! And, He allowed you to touch him... to pat him on the back... to help prepare his body for burial and then, perhaps, touched his resurrected body!!!

Not many verses. But, it doesn't take much pondering and imagining to help them come alive to ourselves and others. It simply takes time and restful thought and asking God to reveal all the gems He has for you and your listeners.

Then, if they fail to hear... at least I have been immeasurably blessed by the adventure of preparing.



RustyCarr -> RE: Is anyone listening? (6/26/2009 6:40:59 PM)

Wow! Very good pick of scripture, TMeeks!

quote:

John 1:1-4
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of men.
1John 1:1
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched--this we proclaim concerning the Word of life.


May I try to expound on this scripture? Think about this. Where would mankind be without words? Sort of leaves you completely helpless, doesn't it. Just think about how important words are for everything we do, for life essentially. Then think about how life would be without TRUE words, true words that Adam and Eve knew in the beginning.

I think the apostle John had some insight that was deeper than the other apostles, if I may be so bold to say. "In the beginning was the word" and that word was Truth from the mouth of God. What changed all of that? What caused mankind to forget it, disregard it, and leave it behind? It was the lie, "You will not surely die," that caused mankind to fall. See what happens when we believe lies, words cobbled together to confuse us and obscure the Truth? AND MANKIND IS VERY SKILLFUL AT COBBLING WORDS TOGETHER THAT ARE NOT TRUE, BUT CERTAINLY LOOK AND SOUND LIKE LIGHT. And what is the cure for lies? Back to "words" again. God's true words in scripture which cannot be contradicted.

Jesus is called the "word" in these verses and Jesus called himself "the Truth." Jn 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. See? John had some powerful insight. And what are we called to do? "Believe." That is what we do with God's true words, we believe them and get rid of the erroneous words that mislead us. When we finally do that, we will know the Truth and it will be within us where God wants to dwell within our hearts. Love is within us, but love without God and His Truth is not love.

Jn 8:31,32 “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples.
Then you will know (love) the truth, and the truth (within you) will set you free.”

Add this: Lk 17:20,21 “The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is within you.”

And the Bible makes sense. So much sense! What is life without the True words of God and a willingness to obey them? Life without is full of pain and suffering, life with the Truth is full of love and joy. That is what I see as the potential power of God. People NOT SINNING don't cause pain to themselves and others. There is a lot of potential there for America's churches. We will suffer under the sins of the lost, but we are told to count it joy when we are persecuted for righteousness sake.

In 1John 1:1 the apostle says he got to see the word in the flesh, Jesus. Jesus was the physical manifestion of the Truth, and He demonstrated the power of the Truth and love. Infact he demonstrated that God will resurrect those who put their faith in Him and BELEIVE the Truth.

Where else can we go? There is no where else to go for the Truth, but to Jesus and our Father in heaven. And what is life without the Truth? Nothing but disaster. Blessed be the name of the Lord.

Thanks for letting me expound.
Rusty



SonInMe1 -> RE: Is anyone listening? (6/26/2009 7:43:26 PM)

I think what motivates my pastor's style is...relevence. Making a 2000+ year old book relevent to today.

His other focus is preaching to all who come into the door. From the seasoned saint to the seeker, unsaved who is wondering what all this Jesus stuff is all about. Believe it or not, he succeeds in this.

A very talented blessed man we are lucky to have as a pastor......and not to be critical, but not everyone in the pulpit has been called to do so. That may be one reason why few listen to some pastors...they are not called by God to do so.

I guess, its also possible some are not called to listen? I don't know, that is difficult to say and understand. I know, one reason why I prefer to sit up front is that in the back of the church there is more casual conversation going on during the sermon.

In the church I was saved in, it was frowned upon, to talk during the sermon...and this was a charismatic church with all the "commotion" one would expect in such a church.

If you cannot focus on what the pastor is saying for the hour, or so, he is up there....why go?

There was a study taken where people were asked why they go to church...or why they chose the church they attend. The most popular answer? How they were greeted at the door....amazing.

To me, its the sermon. The music and big screens and social events all take back seats, to me anyways, to the preached word. Sitting for an hour focused on God's word a week is not much to ask of someone.

Where two or more are gathered in His name, Jesus is there. He is...really there. So, respect Him and the pastor and pay attention. If the sermon is actually good.....[:D]....consider yourself blessed.



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