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RE: So 2009 is half over, and women are still invisible - 6/22/2009 9:57:00 AM
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bolt.
Posts: 1756
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From: Canada
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Well, this idea that salespeople express the bias of their field is not exactly unique to women being ignored. Have you ever been with your husband in a fabric store? A shoe store? A home decor and nick-nack store? I guarantee you that those sales people are treating him just as invisibly as women are treated in automotive environments.
It's a preconception of where the purchasing power lies within families, but it is not an indication of actual gender imbalance in our society.
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RE: So 2009 is half over, and women are still invisible - 6/22/2009 11:49:16 AM
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Focusing
Posts: 5168
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quote:
I guarantee you that those sales people are treating him just as invisibly as women are treated in automotive environments.
That wasn't my experience ... probably because the sales person was fascinated in him being there in the first place. LOL
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RE: So 2009 is half over, and women are still invisible - 6/22/2009 5:41:53 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2526
Joined: 11/16/2007
From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
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Well that helps explain the cute, fluffy kitten avatar. And the signature line about your husband being in the military.
I was a bit worried for a while. 
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RE: So 2009 is half over, and women are still invisible - 6/22/2009 8:37:51 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3170
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: being knit together in my mother's womb
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quote:
ORIGINAL: prolifepj
quote:
Perhaps I should just crawl in a hole for a few days and "wait 'til the sun shines, Nellie." (I have to talk like that now -- I recently turned 60.)
No ma'am- no holes for you!
*story* . . . No attorneys necessary... just she who hath VOICE!
I too wonder if its your locale... was sort of like that in MS.
I am bad about things like this, though. I will sit back and say nothing until it has gone way, way too far. I strongly dislike making waves and am more likely to just smile and take it. I'm not sure I could become "she who hath VOICE!" In fact, although I left a message with the persons I was supposed to contact, they have not called me back at all, and the hearing is tomorrow. I'll call again tomorrow before going downtown for nothing, I guess. I probably should have spoken up when all the letters started coming just to my husband, but . . . .
quote:
ORIGINAL: desert girl
You are correct ... even in the 21st century woman are still treated as nothing. It is beyond ridiculous.
I have actually seen it leaning way to far on each side at different times. Throughout my lifetime, it seemed to be going from women being the silent, unseen ones to the point at which they were way out front in everything. I have been glad to see the men finally getting what they should after a long dry period from the '70s - the mid-'90s. But this incident was a shock to me. Bluntly, I haven't had to deal with being invisible until this whole thing came up -- with the shooting.
quote:
ORIGINAL: desert girl
It's frustrating to try to handle the family's business when the person you are dealing with (man or woman in my experience) doesn't want to talk to you for the simple fact that you are the *wife*
Indeed. With my first husband, he did not have time to deal with this stuff, but I was a stay-at-home-mom until he was killed. I had to do it, but it was fine. Now, with my present husband, we both work, but I still have more time than he does to deal with the household stuff. Don't they understand that some families's dynamic makes it necessary for the woman to take care of these things? Amazing to me.
Reform_Dave, to whom were you writing? Me (the OP) or to desert girl? I am trying to make sense of what you wrote. :-)
Bolt. --
Regarding the camper, I bought it but requested that his name be added, so it is joint property. Some of our bills are in my name, and some are in both our names. Here, however, if they have the male's name, they will almost invariably make him their contact. If the woman pays the bill, they are all right with that, but if the woman wants to make changes, many will totally balk in way too many cases.
Pruned --
Car dealerships are the absolute worst! So I ended up buying my latest car from a salesman who was decent. Too bad Hyatt went out of business when the big car companies started playing games -- they were great there (for the most part). But then I did buy my car from the business' pastor.
quote:
ORIGINAL: fallenstar
I hate to say it, but that is what you sacrifice by getting married. The husband is seen as the head of the household, the alpha, the dominant male. When a woman marries, she is agreeing that he will be in charge. It is "natural" if you consider that animals do this too. I am not saying I agree with it. I am saying that you must be careful about what choices you make in life, and be aware of what your rights are and what they will be in the future.
Well, not in my world. My husband is not the head of our house, and he doesn't want that job. He is, however, head of the wife -- me. I don't follow the ways of the beasts (which according to my Bible is not natural for believers) when I have the Bible to tell me how it should be. And I'm not 17. :-)
browneyes222 --
When I'm at the mechanics, HE does all the stuff. I learned, while 10 years single, that a woman will almost invariably get "taken" if we don't know anything about the mechanics of a vehicle -- and that's me.
Harvie -- Cute! And congrats to your husband! Hope he's home to stay!
_____________________________
While in prayer or praise, I am only as devoted to G-d as I am in my most private moments.
Abiyah, if you had known them as G-d knows them, you would have answered them differently.
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RE: So 2009 is half over, and women are still invisible - 6/23/2009 2:37:21 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3170
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: being knit together in my mother's womb
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The saga continues but on a more positive note. I got a call from the city and am headed down to the bail hearing with the hope to make an impact statement. The city apologized for their oversight and was very decent about it. Hey, they acknowledged their mistake and apologized. That's enough for me.
_____________________________
While in prayer or praise, I am only as devoted to G-d as I am in my most private moments.
Abiyah, if you had known them as G-d knows them, you would have answered them differently.
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RE: So 2009 is half over, and women are still invisible - 6/23/2009 4:27:07 PM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4921
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Formerly Jesus Land
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If I've ever been ignored, I never noticed it.
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"A faith that can be destroyed by suffering is not faith."--Richard Wurmbrand
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RE: So 2009 is half over, and women are still invisible - 6/23/2009 5:10:06 PM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4921
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Formerly Jesus Land
Status: online
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Funny!
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"A faith that can be destroyed by suffering is not faith."--Richard Wurmbrand
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RE: So 2009 is half over, and women are still invisible - 6/23/2009 5:33:52 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3170
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You guys! You're funny.
Well, I learned something today. Boy, I must be terrifically naive. Seriously naive. We used to joke around, saying "liars" for "lawyers," then I met a lot of very nice ones. Quit doing that then.
But I went to the hearing, and his lawyer told what I have heard called a "bald-faced lie"! When the hearing was over, without my even bringing it up, the lady who has been working with me told me that lawyers "do that."
Well, this turned out as best I could expect. The judge has my statement. That was the main thing.
_____________________________
While in prayer or praise, I am only as devoted to G-d as I am in my most private moments.
Abiyah, if you had known them as G-d knows them, you would have answered them differently.
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RE: So 2009 is half over, and women are still invisible - 6/23/2009 7:45:31 PM
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Bluethread
Posts: 2923
Joined: 11/8/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
You guys! You're funny.
Well, I learned something today. Boy, I must be terrifically naive. Seriously naive. We used to joke around, saying "liars" for "lawyers," then I met a lot of very nice ones. Quit doing that then.
But I went to the hearing, and his lawyer told what I have heard called a "bald-faced lie"! When the hearing was over, without my even bringing it up, the lady who has been working with me told me that lawyers "do that."
Well, this turned out as best I could expect. The judge has my statement. That was the main thing.
If I am not mistaken, as officers of the court, lawyers are not to say things they know are not true. However, they can require the other side to prove something to be false. Therefore, they can say something has not been proven to be true, even if they know it to be false. Or they can propose something they know to be false as a possibility to introduce reasonable doubt. You were there, so you would know better than I. However, one has to listen closely when a lawyer speaks in court. There are many ways of not telling the truth without actually lieing either. This is why it takes a wise person to be a good judge.
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"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: So 2009 is half over, and women are still invisible - 6/23/2009 8:01:06 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3170
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From: being knit together in my mother's womb
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Personally, I think she was really goofy to say what she said, because it should have been obvious that the judge had my statement, and what she denied was in the papers before the judge read my statement! It was seriously foolish -- in my opinion, anyway.
_____________________________
While in prayer or praise, I am only as devoted to G-d as I am in my most private moments.
Abiyah, if you had known them as G-d knows them, you would have answered them differently.
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RE: So 2009 is half over, and women are still invisible - 6/23/2009 11:47:54 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3170
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From: being knit together in my mother's womb
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Oh, I should tell you this:
I am very actively prolife, and I forgot about the people at the entrance having to go through our purses and put us through those metal detectors, etc. I didn't even think about it, when I quickly buzzed downtown carrying my big ol' suitcase of a purse with everything under the sun in it.
So, of course, I got stopped at the door. It took those poor young women about 15 minutes to go through all my stuff, which had to be opened and inspected.
Well, in the front side pocket is a tiny whole NASB Bible in a red zipped fabric case, so that had to be opened, exposing all the sticky-notes. Then they spotted the little bag in which I carry two tiny babies that are specifically the size of children at 14 weeks gestation, so they wanted to know why I had them. I explained.
Then they found all my little gold feet and gold hands that are just like a child's feet and hands at 10 weeks gestation. They asked, "Why are you carrying those?" When I said, "To give away!" one of the young ladies said, "Can I have one? I'm 14 weeks pregnant, and I wanted to know what he looks like!"
I got to give away three each of the little hands and feet, and the feet were on a card that gave a LOT of information with photos! I felt so blessed! G-d is SO GOOD! He is SOOO GOOD!
I just want to stand up and shout it!!!! :-) Goin' pentecostal on you now!
_____________________________
While in prayer or praise, I am only as devoted to G-d as I am in my most private moments.
Abiyah, if you had known them as G-d knows them, you would have answered them differently.
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RE: So 2009 is half over, and women are still invisible - 6/24/2009 5:09:37 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3170
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From: being knit together in my mother's womb
Status: offline
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Dontcha just love it when He makes those opportunities?
_____________________________
While in prayer or praise, I am only as devoted to G-d as I am in my most private moments.
Abiyah, if you had known them as G-d knows them, you would have answered them differently.
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RE: So 2009 is half over, and women are still invisible - 6/24/2009 5:29:48 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3170
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From: being knit together in my mother's womb
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And I should add: one of the young ladies was a little reluctant, but she took one of the "Little Feet." After I gave the pregnant one both hands and feet, when that young lady's back was turned, the initially-reluctant one snuck over, grinned at me, and "stole" the pregnant lady's "Little Hands." I just laughed, and when the pregnant one turned around, she asked, "Did she take my hands???" I answered yes and gave her another set of hands.
I carry these things everywhere I go, and it had been a while since i had given them away. This was such a blessing to me! The the young ladies were so nice! here ya go -- more government workers who are nice!
_____________________________
While in prayer or praise, I am only as devoted to G-d as I am in my most private moments.
Abiyah, if you had known them as G-d knows them, you would have answered them differently.
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RE: So 2009 is half over, and women are still invisible - 6/24/2009 5:40:03 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3170
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From: being knit together in my mother's womb
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Hee-hee!!!!
_____________________________
While in prayer or praise, I am only as devoted to G-d as I am in my most private moments.
Abiyah, if you had known them as G-d knows them, you would have answered them differently.
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RE: So 2009 is half over, and women are still invisible - 6/30/2009 11:25:39 PM
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nuclear_sidewalk
Posts: 206
Joined: 6/8/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: fallenstar
I hate to say it, but that is what you sacrifice by getting married. The husband is seen as the head of the household, the alpha, the dominant male. When a woman marries, she is agreeing that he will be in charge. It is "natural" if you consider that animals do this too. I am not saying I agree with it. I am saying that you must be careful about what choices you make in life, and be aware of what your rights are and what they will be in the future.
With this, I put forth the "one flesh" concept, where it's neither "my money" and "his money", but "your money." (singular, together) The country and its marriages would be much better off if people would forget about his and hers concepts.
If it's any consolation, while we've put a man on the Moon and it's 2009, we still use toilet paper. Not everything changes at the same rate.
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RE: So 2009 is half over, and women are still invisible - 7/1/2009 3:45:17 AM
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Aleric
Posts: 75
Joined: 10/31/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
It is true that I do most of the grunt-work for my household of two: opening accounts, starting business relationships, paying bills, choosing those we do business with, signing checks, paying for licenses, etc. Why? In order to lighten the load on my husband. But I remain invisible. When we are contacted by many businesses and government agencies, they address everything to him, never to me. My name is clearly on everything, but they still pretend I don't exist. Why does that bother me? Initially because this often makes it very hard for me to take care of business, because I am not recognizable as a person having the authority to do what I must do.
I put bills in the Mrs. name just so she gets recognition. Not all of them, we kind of split them.
I know it kind of sounds childish or odd. To some it's as if my credit is horrible and I need to put bills in her name. Which really say's a lot about what your OP is about.
But I like the fact that we both get separate mail. Especially considering that she does handle the bank account and just about everything else. It's simply easier to have them in her name to begin with.
Which oddly enough does get her noticed.
Not all of the bills are in her name, but we have picked and choosed what we thought would stick out more. Like the bills that always need an account number or a password to access.
The electric, heat and water are in her name and the cable, cell and homephone are in mine.
I know I would be lost with out her so I sometimes have trouble seeing why people would be focused on the bills being in her name.
It's not like I write the checks for any of them.
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RE: So 2009 is half over, and women are still invisible - 7/1/2009 1:21:32 PM
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GraceyGirl
Posts: 347
Joined: 6/4/2006
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Abiyah -
Honey, you should try living in the south!!!! I am so glad to have moved to the midwest. Things aren't quite as bad here, but Ohio is by no means progressive either.
Case in point - we are moving. The painters were supposed to come Friday, but they showed up today. Now, I recruited these guys, I hired them, and I paid the deposit. Pappy the painter comes onto our property this morning and says, "Hey little sugah, why don't you run go get yer man so we can see about getting started here?" Pardon me? "Little sugar?" "My man??" Paul was coming around the side of the house when he said this and he told me later, "I felt the temperture change about 15 degrees and realized I wanted NO part of that situation." I mean really - as if I'm not able to tell you what walls I want you to slap some paint on. Duuuuh.
It was worse when I was in the military. Women in the military + southern states = some questionable descriptions of said woman. It was bad for a few years, but eventually I found my grove.
It's a lot we're stuck with frankly. I get the whole, "Man is king of the cave" thing - I really do. But, the days of being drug around by my hair are far gone. We're making progress - slowly.
_____________________________
God called. He'd like His church back.
~John Wimber~
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RE: So 2009 is half over, and women are still invisible - 7/1/2009 1:48:38 PM
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doinkdom
Posts: 5581
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: The higher lowcountry
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GraceyGirl
Abiyah -
Honey, you should try living in the south!!!! I am so glad to have moved to the midwest. Things aren't quite as bad here, but Ohio is by no means progressive either.
Case in point - we are moving. The painters were supposed to come Friday, but they showed up today. Now, I recruited these guys, I hired them, and I paid the deposit. Pappy the painter comes onto our property this morning and says, "Hey little sugah, why don't you run go get yer man so we can see about getting started here?" Pardon me? "Little sugar?" "My man??" Paul was coming around the side of the house when he said this and he told me later, "I felt the temperture change about 15 degrees and realized I wanted NO part of that situation." I mean really - as if I'm not able to tell you what walls I want you to slap some paint on. Duuuuh.
It was worse when I was in the military. Women in the military + southern states = some questionable descriptions of said woman. It was bad for a few years, but eventually I found my grove.
It's a lot we're stuck with frankly. I get the whole, "Man is king of the cave" thing - I really do. But, the days of being drug around by my hair are far gone. We're making progress - slowly.
LOL, I'm from the south, too. And here again, my experience has not been like this at all.
Maybe it's just me...my personality is rather um...strong at times.   I have fully embraced being a manager of my home and sometimes do so with a bit more enthusiasm than some people might appreciate. I mean when I say I want specific things done, I'm usualy not kidding and can get really serious when challenged by someone I'm paying to do work.
As for the military...yes, I can certainly agree with that aspect for the most part but it has nothing to do with being from the south.
Anyways...I've been following this thread and this is no reflection on anyone here (really, it's not), but when women stop acting like victims and stop manipulating men with sex (again, not saying anyone here is doing this...but it happens all the time in marriages, in getting attention, etc.) then perhaps the world will take women a little more seriously.
I currently do not experience any discrimination and I appreciate the respect I have from my husband and other male friends and their wives.
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Rest assured, dear friends, that where your pleasure is, there your heart is.
- Charles Spurgeon
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RE: So 2009 is half over, and women are still invisible - 7/1/2009 5:55:39 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3170
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From: being knit together in my mother's womb
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Hee-hee, GraceyGirl and Doinkdom! I have known some southern women, and lived in Mississippi for 3.5 or so years. Southern women are a HOOT! While I have not seen Steel Magnolias YET (I've seen small bits of the movie), that title SO fits most of the southern women I have known.
Many of those ladies look so sweet, prim, and proper. They can look as though they would faint with the slightest inappropriateness or be knocked over with the lightest breeze, as they wear their bonnets, their flowery frocks, their ruffles and lace, but southern women are the sweetest, toughest women I know!
Regarding that painter who treated you that way, the southern women I know would:
- Use his ignorance because she didn't want to deal with such an ignorant man, allowing her husband to handle it because she wanted to go inside where it was air conditioned and finish her tea
- Give him that southern-lady-eye-glance that says, "Look out boy! You crossed the line once and I don't give second chances."
Southern women know how to handle his kind.
We women up north either light into such foolishness and make them wish they hadn't shown up for the job or we just take it and seethe in anger.
You two are so great!!!
_____________________________
While in prayer or praise, I am only as devoted to G-d as I am in my most private moments.
Abiyah, if you had known them as G-d knows them, you would have answered them differently.
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