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RE: Reflection for a Funeral - 6/23/2009 7:17:26 AM
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mvic
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quote:
I see it [the church] as a lifeboat floating on a sea of sin and utter depravity, our duty with God's grace and power is to reach out to those drowning in the sea that they too, like us might be saved and kept by grace.
Great description The Tartan Tammy - one with which I agree. However, if the deceased lived a life as a non-Christian and avoided your lifeboat at all costs whilst alive, what is the point bringing him in against his will when he's dead?
Would you conduct a Christian funeral for someone of a non-Christian Faith, or no Faith at all?
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RE: Reflection for a Funeral - 6/23/2009 8:00:17 AM
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TheTartanTammy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mvic
quote:
I see it [the church] as a lifeboat floating on a sea of sin and utter depravity, our duty with God's grace and power is to reach out to those drowning in the sea that they too, like us might be saved and kept by grace.
Great description The Tartan Tammy - one with which I agree. However, if the deceased lived a life as a non-Christian and avoided your lifeboat at all costs whilst alive, what is the point bringing him in against his will when he's dead?
Would you conduct a Christian funeral for someone of a non-Christian Faith, or no Faith at all?
I don't think that the issue is about the deceased, but rather those still alive and open to God's word at a time when God's Spirit can tenderly open their hearts to their plight before God.
In a day and age when people will not come into church buildings unless it is for something significant like a funeral, then I reckon we need to take every opportunity that God affords us.
< Message edited by TheTartanTammy -- 6/23/2009 8:07:41 AM >
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Isa 40: 11
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RE: Reflection for a Funeral - 6/23/2009 11:58:50 AM
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buckifn
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I attended a funeral yest. and the first thing the Pastor said was "we are not here for ______ (the deceased person) we already know how he lived his life...we are here for those of you who still have today to decide where you spend eternity."
I believe we all need to have that mentality.
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RE: Reflection for a Funeral - 6/23/2009 1:05:53 PM
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TheTartanTammy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: buckifn
I attended a funeral yest. and the first thing the Pastor said was "we are not here for ______ (the deceased person) we already know how he lived his life...we are here for those of you who still have today to decide where you spend eternity."
I believe we all need to have that mentality.
So long as we do it sensatively, and not in a way that is harsh, judgemental or lacking grace!
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Isa 40: 11
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RE: Reflection for a Funeral - 6/23/2009 2:04:46 PM
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myka
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Do you have a pastor within your denomination to ask about funerals? IIRC, the Anglican funeral that we went to several months ago had some time for various people to talk about their loved one. I don't recall a 'sermon' as such, but it was for a strong believer, so his life was a bit of a sermon.
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RE: Reflection for a Funeral - 6/23/2009 2:21:18 PM
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bzirk
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quote:
ORIGINAL: buckifn
I attended a funeral yest. and the first thing the Pastor said was "we are not here for ______ (the deceased person) we already know how he lived his life...we are here for those of you who still have today to decide where you spend eternity."
I believe we all need to have that mentality.
I think the highlighted statement on its face is pretty callous. I'd like to think that if I read the context, the pastor was not quite that callous. Even the scriptures speak of a time to mourn. Ecclesiastes 3 just to mention one place it's found. The Lord Himself mourned His friend's death (cf Luke 11) though it was in His power to reverse it, which, as we know, He did. Mourning is normal and healthy because the Lord has made us to be people in relationship to Him and each other. This is abundantly clear from scripture given the way He has revealed Himself and especially considering His ministry of reconciliation. So it makes no sense for a pastor, who certainly should be knowledgeable of the Lord's character, to dismiss a person's life and his relationships to others. As for having the mentality about where we're spending eternity, certainly it should be addressed. But I hope that the pastor didn't merely focus on someone's backside being saved from hell and miss the opportunity to reflect on the importance of our relationships and most importantly our relationship to the Lord. If he merely made it about saving someone's backside, then what a shame. I would like to think he didn't appeal to selfishness in his presentation of the Gospel.
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RE: Reflection for a Funeral - 6/23/2009 2:44:33 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TheTartanTammy
So long as we do it sensatively, and not in a way that is harsh, judgemental or lacking grace!
Tammy, If a family came to you, wanted for you to use the Chruch for a funeral for a reprobate family member, but requested that you spead of the departed as though he was in Heaven; what would you do?
Thanks
RC
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RE: Reflection for a Funeral - 6/23/2009 2:50:23 PM
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bzirk
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That's a good question, RC. Those are truly tough funerals. Those and suicides. My husband has done them both and lots of them. He did 15 funerals the first year we were in this church, and it has barely let up since. But the Lord has always been so gracious to give him the wisdom in how to speak the truth in love -- no matter how ugly that truth is.
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RE: Reflection for a Funeral - 6/23/2009 3:22:47 PM
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TheTartanTammy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: TheTartanTammy
So long as we do it sensatively, and not in a way that is harsh, judgemental or lacking grace!
Tammy, If a family came to you, wanted for you to use the Chruch for a funeral for a reprobate family member, but requested that you spead of the departed as though he was in Heaven; what would you do?
Thanks
RC
I would hold on to the integrity of the gospel and my call, and beyond that won't qualify your insulting question any further!!
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RE: Reflection for a Funeral - 6/23/2009 3:27:05 PM
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DoveMinistries
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quote:
I've been asked, by my pastor, to preach at a funeral this coming week. This is a first for me, I preach on a regular bases but have never done a funeral. What Scriptures do you use? How long should a sermon be at a funeral - I'm thinking fairly short. I know the deceased but not well. Any help will be much appreciated.
quote:
I have no idea where this lady stands with Christ, she attended our little Anglican church but I really don't know her well. I feel a funeral is an excellent opportunity to give a gospel message of hope and peace.
Here is one for you although it may be to late. Suitable for Christian Funeral.
We are here to remember the Life of____________________born: Read obit here survied etc.
Then start in prayer;________ Amen
Scripture used: 1 Thessalonians 4:13–18
Introduction: At a time like this, we can be overwhelmed with anguish; the grief, depression, despair, anger, and sorrow can almost drown us. But one thing bears us up and keeps us going—the biblical truth of the resurrection. If only we can focus our minds on 1 Thessalonians 4:13–18, we’ll be all right; so I’d like to look at that passage today phrase by phrase.
Brothers, I do not want you to be ignorant …
This is information God wants us to know. It isn’t just Paul speaking; the Lord is speaking in the first person to you and me. He says, “My child, I don’t want you to be uninformed about something that’s going to happen or about those who have fallen asleep.” When we die in Christ, the Lord doesn’t think of us in terms of being dead, but asleep. When you and I die in Christ, we won’t be dead. We are not dead. Our bodies are sleeping and our spirits are still alive with Christ. That’s what Jesus taught, and that’s what Christians of all the ages have believed. The very word cemetery literally means “sleeping place.”
… lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.
This information keeps our sorrow from becoming despair. Jesus doesn’t tell us to grieve, because there’s an understandable sadness when a Christian passes away. We miss them terribly, and we long for “the touch of a vanished hand and the sound of a voice that is still,” as Tennyson put it. Jesus Himself wept by the tomb of Lazarus. But we’re not to grieve as non-Christians do, like those who have no hope.
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
Since God raised Jesus for us all, He will raise all in Jesus when He returns, and our souls will be reunited with our resurrected bodies on that coming day of gladness and grandeur. That’s the basic fact He wants us to know.
We who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
Somehow the Thessalonians were concerned that their loved ones who had passed away would miss out on the return of Christ, but Paul said, “Not at all. It would be wonderful to be alive when Jesus returns, but those who are alive at that moment will really have no advantage over those who are sleeping in Christ. In fact, the ones asleep in Christ will rise to meet Him first. Four great events will occur almost simultaneously at the moment of our Lord’s return for His children.
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven …
First, the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven. At this very moment, our Jesus is seated in the heavenly realms at the right hand of the Almighty Father. But when the moment comes, He will literally rise from the throne, step into the corridors of light, and descend to the atmospherics of earth.
… with a shout …
Second, He will shout a loud command. The Greek word used here for “shout” or “loud command” was the word the classical Greek writers used for the shout of soldiers as they charged toward the enemy. It was also the word chariot drivers used to spur on their horses. It was like a wild cry of command and forward charge.
… with the voice of an archangel …
As Jesus issues the command for the saints of all the ages to rise from the dead, the archangel will issue commands to all the host of angels under his authority as they participate in the process and escort God’s children into the skies.
… and with the trumpet of God.
Fourth, there’s going to be a blast from a trumpet that will stun and startle the whole earth. In a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, the Lord will descend, He will shout a loud command, the archangel will summon his troops, and a trumpet will blast with a retort loud enough to make the whole world tremble. And then what?
And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
Try to visualize that day. Suddenly in an instant, a billion people will disappear from the face of the earth. You’ll be walking around the office or school, and suddenly it’ll appear to be de-populated, and those left behind will ask, “Where did everyone go?” Well, this passage tells us that we will be reunited with our Savior and our loved ones forever.
Conclusion: At a time like this, it’s appropriate to ask: Are you ready for that day? Are you ready for His return? Have you claimed Jesus Christ as your eternal Lord and Savior? For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Then close with Prayer for family and loved ones. And annouce if any place the familey wants to meet afterward.
Morgan, Robert J.:, S. 396te. Nelson's Annual Preachers 2009 Sourse Book (NOTICE: THIS IS A HELP ONLY) so please do not comment to me about anything you do not agree with.
R Dove
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Love has been perfected amoung us in this; that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world. 1John 4:17
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RE: Reflection for a Funeral - 6/23/2009 3:28:04 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TheTartanTammy
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: TheTartanTammy
So long as we do it sensatively, and not in a way that is harsh, judgemental or lacking grace!
Tammy, If a family came to you, wanted for you to use the Chruch for a funeral for a reprobate family member, but requested that you spead of the departed as though he was in Heaven; what would you do?
Thanks
RC
I would hold on to the integrity of the gospel and my call, and beyond that won't qualify your insulting question any further!!
Certainly did not intend to ask an "Insulting" question, that happened to be in March, and I just wondered how you would handle it.
What does "hold on to the integrity of the gospel and my call" mean anyway.
Us folks over here in the colonies need a little more explaination; please. I mean since I know nothing of your call or your idea of the Gospel, I seriously ask?
Thanks
RC
edited for spelling
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RE: Reflection for a Funeral - 6/24/2009 1:47:52 AM
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bzirk
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Finally read the whole thread.
It must be nice to pick and choose whom will be ministered to. My husband has never discriminated in that way. Choosing to or not to marry someone? Yes, he's turned people down. But a funeral? No, and God's been so gracious as to give him the wisdom to speak the truth in love to those left behind no matter how good or how reprobate their loved one was. I can tell you that I've seen the Lord do some miracles at such funerals where the person who died did not write a good eulogy -- as it were, e.g., where a dad suffocated himself by carbon monoxide because he had beaten his two boys for the umpteenth time and just couldn't live with himself any longer. It was hard at the funeral to see his wife and three kids (the oldest of which had scars from his beatings), and to see his siblings and mother (whose own husband also killed himself and another of her son's as well). So glad that Doug chose to do this funeral and in so doing broach the subject of suicide in the eulogy. About 30 people came to the Lord that day, and we are still seeing the fruit from it. What was intended for evil...
As for the family wanting something said that isn't true, aren't pastors supposed to have the wisdom to counsel them in the truth? I think it's interesting that no matter the family, Doug has been able to counsel them not to gloss over their loved one's life. I give the Lord credit for that but Doug credit for seeking the Lord to work those things out.
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RE: Reflection for a Funeral - 6/24/2009 3:58:57 AM
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TheTartanTammy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bzirk
Finally read the whole thread.
It must be nice to pick and choose whom will be ministered to. My husband has never discriminated in that way. Choosing to or not to marry someone? Yes, he's turned people down. But a funeral? No, and God's been so gracious as to give him the wisdom to speak the truth in love to those left behind no matter how good or how reprobate their loved one was. I can tell you that I've seen the Lord do some miracles at such funerals where the person who died did not write a good eulogy -- as it were, e.g., where a dad suffocated himself by carbon monoxide because he had beaten his two boys for the umpteenth time and just couldn't live with himself any longer. It was hard at the funeral to see his wife and three kids (the oldest of which had scars from his beatings), and to see his siblings and mother (whose own husband also killed himself and another of her son's as well). So glad that Doug chose to do this funeral and in so doing broach the subject of suicide in the eulogy. About 30 people came to the Lord that day, and we are still seeing the fruit from it. What was intended for evil...
As for the family wanting something said that isn't true, aren't pastors supposed to have the wisdom to counsel them in the truth? I think it's interesting that no matter the family, Doug has been able to counsel them not to gloss over their loved one's life. I give the Lord credit for that but Doug credit for seeking the Lord to work those things out.
Thank you for bringing a much needed grace infusion into this debate, and for being willing to share aspects of your ministry with us.
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TheTartanTammy
Isa 40: 11
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RE: Reflection for a Funeral - 6/24/2009 7:33:36 AM
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TheTartanTammy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PastorPatricia
I've been asked, by my pastor, to preach at a funeral this coming week. This is a first for me, I preach on a regular bases but have never done a funeral. What Scriptures do you use? How long should a sermon be at a funeral - I'm thinking fairly short. I know the deceased but not well. Any help will be much appreciated.
So, after all is said and done, have you, will you?
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TheTartanTammy
Isa 40: 11
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RE: Reflection for a Funeral - 6/24/2009 7:54:28 AM
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IwillseekHim
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I, too, hope you come back and let us know how this was handled! thanks.
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RE: Reflection for a Funeral - 6/24/2009 9:09:04 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bzirk
Finally read the whole thread.
It must be nice to pick and choose whom will be ministered to. My husband has never discriminated in that way. Choosing to or not to marry someone? Yes, he's turned people down. But a funeral? No, and God's been so gracious as to give him the wisdom to speak the truth in love to those left behind no matter how good or how reprobate their loved one was.
bzirk, and whould your husband yeild to the demands of a family that required that he speak of the deceased as though he were in Heaven, even if the deceased was an obvious reprobate?
Thanks
RC
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Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Reflection for a Funeral - 6/24/2009 9:40:53 AM
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buckifn
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In re the last funeral I attended and mentioned previously, the sons (3) told me over and over how glad they were the Pastor handled the funeral service in the manner which he did. At the dinner w family after burial there were so many ppl saying positive things about it as well that it surprised me.
So if anyone thought it was "callous" or offensive I have yet to hear about it.
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RE: Reflection for a Funeral - 6/24/2009 9:42:49 AM
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TMeeks
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
Tammy, If a family came to you, wanted for you to use the Chruch for a funeral for a reprobate family member, but requested that you spead of the departed as though he was in Heaven; what would you do?
Thanks
RC
I certainly wouldn't speak of one that probably wasn't a Christian as being in heaven. Not only does it demean Christ's Sacrifice. But, it demeans the person.
One of my first associates in video, committed suicide under the stress of starting a new business. He was not, by any stretch of imagination, a person that loved God. Yet, that is exactly how he was described by the priest that led the funeral service. It was simply a lie and that is not even honoring to the one being buried and all of us knew it. None of his close friends were happy with that description... not myself as a Christian... nor, his anti-Christian friends.
On the other hand, avoiding the question of where the deceased one may or may not be, and focusing on Christ and His love, presents an opportunity to try to ensure that others will not take their last breath in the same condition as the deceased. If the family will not let you avoid that issue, then it would be tough to go forward with their request.
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RE: Reflection for a Funeral - 6/24/2009 2:28:13 PM
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mvic
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So RCJames,
How did you handle it? Did you tell the family you didn't think the deceased is in Heaven; so let's not pretend?
How does one handle such a situation? Do you refuse to do the funeral service?
I know of a happy married couple with children. One spouse is Christian and one is practicing another religion (e.g. Jewish, Muslim etc ...). They get on well, and the children have been brought up in the Christian Faith.
Let us say the Christian partner comes to you (you know the person well as a member of your congregation) when the spouse dies and asks you to carry out a Christian funeral service.
What would you do?
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RE: Reflection for a Funeral - 6/24/2009 2:56:47 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mvic
So RCJames,
How did you handle it? Did you tell the family you didn't think the deceased is in Heaven; so let's not pretend?....How does one handle such a situation? Do you refuse to do the funeral service?
First off what is the pretend remark about?
Now to your quesstion; If someone who is not from my Church comes and wants me to do a funeral I inquire into the deceased; Where did he go to Church? Does his Pastor wish to participate, or send something to read?
If it is obvious that we are dealing with a repeobate, I usually tell me I will consider a grave side or funeral home service and give them a synopsis of what will be said. (And that nothing will be said of the deceased final resting place). If the family is insistant on saying that deceased is in the arms of Jesus; I tell tham I cannot help them, and explain fully why, if they want to listen. If the folks are from my Church and have a lost realative; they already know my position.
quote:
I know of a happy married couple with children. One spouse is Christian and one is practicing another religion (e.g. Jewish, Muslim etc ...). They get on well, and the children have been brought up in the Christian Faith.
Let us say the Christian partner comes to you (you know the person well as a member of your congregation) when the spouse dies and asks you to carry out a Christian funeral service. What would you do?
See the above answer.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Reflection for a Funeral - 6/24/2009 4:26:22 PM
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TMeeks
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Agreed.
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: mvic
So RCJames,
How did you handle it? Did you tell the family you didn't think the deceased is in Heaven; so let's not pretend?....How does one handle such a situation? Do you refuse to do the funeral service?
First off what is the pretend remark about?
Now to your quesstion; If someone who is not from my Church comes and wants me to do a funeral I inquire into the deceased; Where did he go to Church? Does his Pastor wish to participate, or send something to read?
If it is obvious that we are dealing with a repeobate, I usually tell me I will consider a grave side or funeral home service and give them a synopsis of what will be said. (And that nothing will be said of the deceased final resting place). If the family is insistant on saying that deceased is in the arms of Jesus; I tell tham I cannot help them, and explain fully why, if they want to listen. If the folks are from my Church and have a lost realative; they already know my position.
quote:
I know of a happy married couple with children. One spouse is Christian and one is practicing another religion (e.g. Jewish, Muslim etc ...). They get on well, and the children have been brought up in the Christian Faith.
Let us say the Christian partner comes to you (you know the person well as a member of your congregation) when the spouse dies and asks you to carry out a Christian funeral service. What would you do?
See the above answer.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
http://focusonliberty.blogspot.com
Is "Left" vs. "Right" really accurate?- Check out the Liberty Dial!
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RE: Reflection for a Funeral - 6/24/2009 4:57:02 PM
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mvic
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quote:
First off what is the pretend remark about?
Sorry RCJames - I didn't mean to offend
What I meant to say is: Do you say to the deceased's relatives "I don't think your relative is in Heaven so let's not pretend he is, by saying so during the service."
I'm not good with computers so I sometimes write off-line in Word and cut and paste afterwards. Badly as it happens.
Thanx for your reply. Hope you're not offended.
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RE: Reflection for a Funeral - 6/24/2009 5:53:05 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mvic
quote:
First off what is the pretend remark about?
Sorry RCJames - I didn't mean to offend
What I meant to say is: Do you say to the deceased's relatives "I don't think your relative is in Heaven so let's not pretend he is, by saying so during the service."
I'm not good with computers so I sometimes write off-line in Word and cut and paste afterwards. Badly as it happens.
Thanx for your reply. Hope you're not offended.
No porblem.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Reflection for a Funeral - 6/24/2009 9:54:43 PM
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bzirk
Posts: 1429
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: bzirk
Finally read the whole thread.
It must be nice to pick and choose whom will be ministered to. My husband has never discriminated in that way. Choosing to or not to marry someone? Yes, he's turned people down. But a funeral? No, and God's been so gracious as to give him the wisdom to speak the truth in love to those left behind no matter how good or how reprobate their loved one was.
bzirk, and would your husband yeild to the demands of a family that required that he speak of the deceased as though he were in Heaven, even if the deceased was an obvious reprobate?
Thanks
RC
Here's the thing, RC. You may not think that kind of question is offensive, but it kind of comes across that way because essentially you're asking me if my husband would lie. I'll assume I wasn't clear about what he does or will do so I'll make it clear. No, he would not speak a lie. Additionally, it has not been necessary, and this has come about without him having to manipulate the families. I will say that there are probably people who do not ask him to do services because they know where he stands and how he usually conducts services.
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bZirk
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RE: Reflection for a Funeral - 6/24/2009 10:21:08 PM
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DoveMinistries
Posts: 308
Joined: 6/8/2009
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I hope all went well for you Pastor Trish. God Bless
< Message edited by DoveMinistries -- 6/24/2009 10:32:23 PM >
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The Consummation of Love,
Love has been perfected amoung us in this; that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world. 1John 4:17
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