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RE: Reflection for a Funeral - 6/25/2009 8:07:03 AM
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rcjames
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Earlier this morning, I read back thourgh this thread and concluded that many Chritstians put a lot more importance on a Church funeral for the reprobate departed than Christ did. When one of the Diciples told Jesus that he needed to bury his father, Christi answered;
(Mat 8:22) But Jesus said to him, Follow Me, and let the dead bury their dead.
I honestly think there is something inherently wrong with using the Church, the Pastor, and all the trappings of a Christian ceremonoy to bury a reprobate.
When (On the rare occasion) that I do services for a reprobate, it is graveside or funeral home, I do not mention the deceased's probable present location, and the message is strongly evangelical.
Thanks
RC
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Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
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RE: Reflection for a Funeral - 6/25/2009 2:40:58 PM
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bzirk
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Would you define reprobate?
Thanks.
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RE: Reflection for a Funeral - 6/25/2009 2:58:31 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bzirk
Would you define reprobate?
Thanks.
Sure as Paul said in;
(2Co 13:5) examine yourselves, whether you are in the faith, prove your own selves. Do you not know your own selves, that Jesus Christ is in you, unless you are reprobates?
One in either of the Faith or they are reprobate;
Greek word and definition for reprobate;
quote:
adokimos
ad-ok'-ee-mos
From G1 (as a negative particle) and G1384; unapproved, that is, rejected; by implication worthless (literally or morally): - castaway, rejected, reprobate.
Paul says Christ is either in a person or they are reprobate.
My usage; someone who obviously is not a Christian, based on thier fruits, their relationship with the Chruch (Body of Christ), and their overall life style.
Thanks
RC
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Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
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RE: Reflection for a Funeral - 6/25/2009 6:02:01 PM
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DoveMinistries
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quote:
Earlier this morning, I read back thourgh this thread and concluded that many Chritstians put a lot more importance on a Church funeral for the reprobate departed than Christ did.
Hey RC all I did was give her a semon. And she did say that the Lady attended her church. But that she did not know alot about her. I can only assume the lady was christian. But you probally were not talking to me anyhow. I can not lie ethier. sorry folk's
And for the record to everyone else. What RC stated, when all this started, if the family wanted you to say the deceased was in Heaven, when you knew otherwise, would you do it? And only a few said, that they would not lie. But all started in on RC
quote:
Sometimes families of the obviouly lost departed, want the minister to say that the departed is in heaven, but with proper counsel they usually are go along with the minister not saying that.
Although I have had folks in these situations seek some other minister when I said I would not declare their departed one to be in Heaven.
I honestly have gotten to the point to where I will only do funerals of my Church's members, or family of the members.
And by RC only doing funerals for people he knows, He insures that he is not lying, when saying the departed is in Heaven.
R Dove
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RE: Reflection for a Funeral - 6/25/2009 6:18:11 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DoveMinistries
And by RC only doing funerals for people he knows, He insures that he is not lying, when saying the departed is in Heaven.
R Dove
Let me be clear DoveMinistries, I occasionally do funerars for folks that are not from my Church, sometime folks who moved off, but wanted to have a funeral in their old home town (sometimes they have been gone 50 years or so).
But for folks that are obviously not of the Faith "Reprobates", i do not use the Church or have a Chrisiany funeral (hymns, a lot of prayer, etc.) and I hold those either at the funeral home or graveside.
Thanks
RC
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RE: Reflection for a Funeral - 6/25/2009 6:26:33 PM
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DoveMinistries
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I agree with you on that.
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Love has been perfected amoung us in this; that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world. 1John 4:17
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RE: Reflection for a Funeral - 6/25/2009 7:26:13 PM
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buckifn
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Interesting discussion in light of Michael Jackson's death also....just how would be an approp. way to preach such a funeral?
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RE: Reflection for a Funeral - 6/25/2009 7:31:05 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: buckifn
Interesting discussion in light of Michael Jackson's death also....just how would be an approp. way to preach such a funeral?
Preach evangelism to the hoards of pagans that will show for the funeral.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
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RE: Reflection for a Funeral - 6/25/2009 10:02:28 PM
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buckifn
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I almost laughed at the word "pagan"...but it sounds so uncompassionate. I have a lot of compassion for their soul. It just doesn't seem approp. to use the word pagan in this case.
But yes, evangelism, preached in love ,is most def. what is needed.
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RE: Reflection for a Funeral - 6/26/2009 6:42:40 AM
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TheTartanTammy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: buckifn
Interesting discussion in light of Michael Jackson's death also....just how would be an approp. way to preach such a funeral?
Preach evangelism to the hoards of pagans that will show for the funeral.
Thanks
RC
What were you before you were saved by God's grace? Is it just me, or does your attitude to those who are outside of Christ, and therefor dead in their sin, lack grace and compassion?
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RE: Reflection for a Funeral - 6/26/2009 7:11:21 AM
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walkin2e
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I've had the open door to speak at several funerals (one of those was my mother's). In a service, there are some who are saved, but are others who are not. The Lord gives me the message, I deliver it...Sometimes I speak of comfort, hope, and the great love of compassion of Jesus towards us all. I most often speak of eternity, and where you will spend it.
I believe with all my heart that the Lord knows who needs to speak, what they need to speak, and when they need to speak. He is the one who opens and closes doors of opportunity to speak His word.
walkin2e
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RE: Reflection for a Funeral - 6/26/2009 7:24:58 AM
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buckifn
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walkin
your post reminded me of an incident where I was asked to lead the prayer at a funeral. I was told specific things to say or not say. I said what the Holy Spirit led me to say. Nobody commented negatively afterwards so I think He took care of everything on both sides.
If we follow the Holy Spirit's leading we will not go wrong. I'm so glad for that aren't you!
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RE: Reflection for a Funeral - 6/26/2009 7:43:05 AM
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walkin2e
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quote:
If we follow the Holy Spirit's leading we will not go wrong. I'm so glad for that aren't you!
Amen! We can do nothing on our on...but with the leading and guidance of the Holy Spirit, we can do all things!
I remember once the Lord spoke a word to me and said I would be preaching at my old home church...In the natural, that was not possible for various reasons. A few weeks later, I was sitting at the coffee shop, reading the paper, and saw in the obituaries where a good friend of mine had died. Down at the bottom of the article, it gave the preacher's who would be preaching. My name was one of them (no one had called me, or informed me). The service was held at my old home church, and I preached as the Lord had told me. He opens closed doors!
walkin2e
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RE: Reflection for a Funeral - 6/26/2009 7:52:42 AM
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zoebob
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We were all pagans before we knew Christ
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RE: Reflection for a Funeral - 6/26/2009 10:08:51 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TheTartanTammy
What were you before you were saved by God's grace? Is it just me, or does your attitude to those who are outside of Christ, and therefor dead in their sin, lack grace and compassion?
It is just you.
Thanks
RC
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Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
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RE: Reflection for a Funeral - 6/26/2009 10:55:04 AM
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TheTartanTammy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: TheTartanTammy
What were you before you were saved by God's grace? Is it just me, or does your attitude to those who are outside of Christ, and therefor dead in their sin, lack grace and compassion?
It is just you.
Thanks
RC
Me thinks not
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Isa 40: 11
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RE: Reflection for a Funeral - 6/26/2009 11:05:49 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TheTartanTammy
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: TheTartanTammy
What were you before you were saved by God's grace? Is it just me, or does your attitude to those who are outside of Christ, and therefor dead in their sin, lack grace and compassion?
It is just you.
Thanks
RC
Me thinks not
Well of course you are entitled to think I lack grace and compassion for the lost if you so desire.
What general word would you use to describe those the Apostle Paul called reprobates? Those who do the works of the flesh,
(Gal 5:19-21) Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
I would be interested in your touchy feely verbage for such.
And in line with the thread, would you do a full blown Church funeral for such?
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Reflection for a Funeral - 6/26/2009 11:42:55 AM
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mvic
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quote:
Me thinks not
Me agrees ...
RCJames,
I'm sure that in real life you are a kind and gentle person and the kind of pastor/preacher that many would be proud of and happy to have in their church.
However, sometimes, here on these Forums you come accross as somewhat harsh and unforgiving. I've often felt that you've slapped down someone who is not fully in tune with your views and thinking.
A bit like the disciple Peter I suppose who in his eargerness even reprimanded the Lord when He talked about His death and suffering.
So you're a good one really - but a little more gentleness please.
Forgive me for voicing my opinions. I don't mean to offend. I respect you and what you say - but you sometimes frighten me!
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RE: Reflection for a Funeral - 6/26/2009 12:00:01 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mvic
quote:
Me thinks not
Me agrees ...
RCJames,
I'm sure that in real life you are a kind and gentle person and the kind of pastor/preacher that many would be proud of and happy to have in their church.
However, sometimes, here on these Forums you come accross as somewhat harsh and unforgiving. I've often felt that you've slapped down someone who is not fully in tune with your views and thinking.
A bit like the disciple Peter I suppose who in his eargerness even reprimanded the Lord when He talked about His death and suffering.
So you're a good one really - but a little more gentleness please.
Forgive me for voicing my opinions. I don't mean to offend. I respect you and what you say - but you sometimes frighten me!
You are certainly entitiled to your opinions also.
(And by the way I would take being compared to Peter as a compliment, but I fall far far short).
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Reflection for a Funeral - 6/26/2009 12:27:24 PM
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TheTartanTammy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: TheTartanTammy
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: TheTartanTammy
What were you before you were saved by God's grace? Is it just me, or does your attitude to those who are outside of Christ, and therefor dead in their sin, lack grace and compassion?
It is just you.
Thanks
RC
Me thinks not
Well of course you are entitled to think I lack grace and compassion for the lost if you so desire.
What general word would you use to describe those the Apostle Paul called reprobates? Those who do the works of the flesh,
(Gal 5:19-21) Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
I would be interested in your touchy feely verbage for such.
And in line with the thread, would you do a full blown Church funeral for such?
Thanks
RC
If you mean by full blown, would I seize it as a gospel opportunity, yes I would!
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TheTartanTammy
Isa 40: 11
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RE: Reflection for a Funeral - 6/26/2009 12:35:09 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TheTartanTammy
If you mean by full blown, would I seize it as a gospel opportunity, yes I would!
By full blown, I mean having the funeral in the Sanctuary, with the deceased at the front of the Church, with all our great "In the Sweet By and By" hymns being sang by our robed choirs. The casket surronded by flowers and floral crosses, etc. etc.
I am not speaking to content of the message of the one officiating.
TartanTammy, have you deciced on a kind gentle word to refer to the pagans of the world yet?
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Reflection for a Funeral - 6/26/2009 12:42:09 PM
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TheTartanTammy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: TheTartanTammy
If you mean by full blown, would I seize it as a gospel opportunity, yes I would!
By full blown, I mean having the funeral in the Sanctuary, with the deceased at the front of the Church, with all our great "In the Sweet By and By" hymns being sang by our robed choirs. The casket surronded by flowers and floral crosses, etc. etc.
I am not speaking to content of the message of the one officiating.
TartanTammy, have you deciced on a kind gentle word to refer to the pagans of the world yet?
Thanks
RC
As covered elsewhere on this thread, I believe that funerals are not for the dead but for the living, and that God by His Spirit is not restricted in how He reaches people, whether through His word, or the words of a hymn, or maybe through a conversation with a Christian after the service.
Unlike you I do not see people as reprobates, but rather as made in God's image, and in desperate need of His salvation.
< Message edited by TheTartanTammy -- 6/26/2009 12:48:25 PM >
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TheTartanTammy
Isa 40: 11
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RE: Reflection for a Funeral - 6/26/2009 12:46:51 PM
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TheTartanTammy
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RC said, "(And by the way I would take being compared to Peter as a compliment, but I fall far far short)."
Really! How can you fall short of being a sinner?
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TheTartanTammy
Isa 40: 11
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RE: Reflection for a Funeral - 6/26/2009 1:21:32 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TheTartanTammy
RC said, "(And by the way I would take being compared to Peter as a compliment, but I fall far far short)."
Really! How can you fall short of being a sinner?
Cute jab TartanTammy,
I of course was refering to my service to God as compared to Peters.
And by the way, Peter was a sinner, who was saved by grace, and became a Saint.
So you would use the sanctuary for a funeral service for the reprobate.
Interesting.
Thsnks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Reflection for a Funeral - 6/26/2009 1:42:50 PM
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mvic
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quote:
You are certainly entitled to your opinions also.
See what I mean by slapping someone down. Never mind, I can take it.
But I fear that there are some on these Forums new to their walk with the Lord and comments such as yours may well jolt them away.
Please use the zeal of Peter and the kindness of Christ.
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