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RE: 1,000 years literal or figurative? Why? - 6/30/2009 11:52:54 AM
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ForeverRedeemed
Posts: 181
Joined: 3/26/2009
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Wow, you all have been bringing up some great topics for discussion within this thread!
jjbird -
I'm interested to hear what your thoughts are on my comment regarding a literal 1,000 years that I posted above?
You mentioned the book of Ezekiel, so you might be familiar with the lengthy description of the Millennial Temple and everything referenced in regards to it. EIGHT chapters! I found it particularly interesting that there is so much detail. The temple furniture is described. As I said above, detailed descriptions right down to the sizes of the dressing rooms for the singers!
Some teach we are living in the 1,000 year reign right now, which is foolish considering we have not seen the antichrist set himself up in the temple at Jerusalem to be worshipped. We have not seen fire fall from heaven. We have not seen 1/2 to 2/3rd's of the fresh water destroyed. We have not seen 2/3rd's of the world's population extinguished. We have not seen the Lord set his feet upon the Mount of Olives, which, will split and have a river run through it! And most importantly, in order for the 1,000 year reign to begin, the Tribulation period would be complete, meaning that Jesus has returned - destroying his enemies by the Word of his mouth, causing blood to flow to the horses bridles! And after that, there is a seven month period where they clean up the dead. Just hasn't happened in history.
We have to remember that we are living in the age of grace. When the church is removed, the seventieth week of Daniel will begin and so the seven year tribulation period will unfold. Until the church age or age of grace comes to a close, we will not see these things mentioned above fulfilled. The hallmark of the tribulation is that these things will be happening on a global scale. And then of course, we see Christ set up his millennial reign, which Revelation 20:1-7 mentions six times.
_____________________________
<----- My Buddy!
"I've been changed from the creature that once I was,
I am no longer in bondage, I've been plunged 'neath the flow -
I'm washed whiter than snow . . .
I am FOREVER REDEEMED!!!!!"
http://goodnewsnow.info
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RE: 1,000 years literal or figurative? Why? - 6/30/2009 2:07:39 PM
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ForeverRedeemed
Posts: 181
Joined: 3/26/2009
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
quote:
ORIGINAL: jjbird
If we allow the bible to interpret itself genres of scripture that uses imagery we can see that the number 1,000 is not literal.
Just like there is no literal dragon since we all know that dragons do not exist. Just like there are no beasts that resemble a leopard that have feet like a bear and a mouth like a lion! (Rev.13)
They are images to convey ideas and truths but not literal ones.
Regarding dragons, there is strong evidence that they most certainly did exist until very recently, and some biologists believe there are places they may still live. The problem people have is that they imagine a dragon in the Tolkien-esque, firebreathing, flying, gold-hoarding, damsel eating sense. In reality, they were/are merely large reptiles of some sort, a la dinosaurs.
Unless of course you think God chose an imaginary beast to use.
Might want to reconsider that thought ..... 
In all this discussion of dragons, no one has mentioned leviathan!!!
The books of Job and Pslams speak of leviathan, which, by the description, sure sounds like a fire-breathing dragon to me!
Job 41: 1 Can thou draw out leviathan with a hook? Or his tongue with a cord which thou layest down?
Job 41:15 His scales are his pride …
Job 41:20 Out of his nostrils go smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron.
Job 41: 21 His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goesth out of his mouth.
Here is something to consider: The serpent was not figurative in the garden. It was there, it was real.
Just b/c something represents Satan does not necessarily mean it is figurative.
Dragons were real and are spoken of in the Bible and throughout history.
Look at Babylon, what adorned the walls of their city? The likeness of dragons.
Look at China, what are most of their jade figures of? Dragons.
People in very vast and different areas of the world all have the same likeness and recounts of this animal.
If you research, the word dinosaur was coined and added to the dictionary in 1841, and prior to that was called a dragon. 
Dragons imaginary? Tell that to Marco Polo!!! lol 
(Genghis Kahn who was into conquering and killing, a man of very few words, gave Marco Polo the position in his court of "Feeder of the Royal Dragons") 
_____________________________
<----- My Buddy!
"I've been changed from the creature that once I was,
I am no longer in bondage, I've been plunged 'neath the flow -
I'm washed whiter than snow . . .
I am FOREVER REDEEMED!!!!!"
http://goodnewsnow.info
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RE: 1,000 years literal or figurative? Why? - 6/30/2009 3:11:27 PM
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bob97
Posts: 2252
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
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I agree, just because late history has no record of dragons, history and the Bible tells us that they lived.
We have never seen Christ either.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: 1,000 years literal or figurative? Why? - 6/30/2009 3:20:53 PM
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jjbird
Posts: 505
Joined: 5/20/2009
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ForeverRedeemed
Wow, you all have been bringing up some great topics for discussion within this thread!
jjbird -
I'm interested to hear what your thoughts are on my comment regarding a literal 1,000 years that I posted above?
You mentioned the book of Ezekiel, so you might be familiar with the lengthy description of the Millennial Temple and everything referenced in regards to it. EIGHT chapters! I found it particularly interesting that there is so much detail. The temple furniture is described. As I said above, detailed descriptions right down to the sizes of the dressing rooms for the singers!
Some teach we are living in the 1,000 year reign right now, which is foolish considering we have not seen the antichrist set himself up in the temple at Jerusalem to be worshipped. We have not seen fire fall from heaven. We have not seen 1/2 to 2/3rd's of the fresh water destroyed. We have not seen 2/3rd's of the world's population extinguished. We have not seen the Lord set his feet upon the Mount of Olives, which, will split and have a river run through it! And most importantly, in order for the 1,000 year reign to begin, the Tribulation period would be complete, meaning that Jesus has returned - destroying his enemies by the Word of his mouth, causing blood to flow to the horses bridles! And after that, there is a seven month period where they clean up the dead. Just hasn't happened in history.
We have to remember that we are living in the age of grace. When the church is removed, the seventieth week of Daniel will begin and so the seven year tribulation period will unfold. Until the church age or age of grace comes to a close, we will not see these things mentioned above fulfilled. The hallmark of the tribulation is that these things will be happening on a global scale. And then of course, we see Christ set up his millennial reign, which Revelation 20:1-7 mentions six times.
The Bible says the antichrist was already here! The antichrist is anyone who does not believe that Jesus is the Son of God.
It is not some major world leader or lone figure.
What is the tribulation to you? how do you define it?
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RE: 1,000 years literal or figurative? Why? - 6/30/2009 10:38:06 PM
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Retrobyter
Posts: 804
Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Florida
Status: offline
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Shalom, jjbird.
quote:
ORIGINAL: jjbird
quote:
ORIGINAL: ForeverRedeemed
Wow, you all have been bringing up some great topics for discussion within this thread!
jjbird -
I'm interested to hear what your thoughts are on my comment regarding a literal 1,000 years that I posted above?
You mentioned the book of Ezekiel, so you might be familiar with the lengthy description of the Millennial Temple and everything referenced in regards to it. EIGHT chapters! I found it particularly interesting that there is so much detail. The temple furniture is described. As I said above, detailed descriptions right down to the sizes of the dressing rooms for the singers!
Some teach we are living in the 1,000 year reign right now, which is foolish considering we have not seen the antichrist set himself up in the temple at Jerusalem to be worshipped. We have not seen fire fall from heaven. We have not seen 1/2 to 2/3rd's of the fresh water destroyed. We have not seen 2/3rd's of the world's population extinguished. We have not seen the Lord set his feet upon the Mount of Olives, which, will split and have a river run through it! And most importantly, in order for the 1,000 year reign to begin, the Tribulation period would be complete, meaning that Jesus has returned - destroying his enemies by the Word of his mouth, causing blood to flow to the horses bridles! And after that, there is a seven month period where they clean up the dead. Just hasn't happened in history.
We have to remember that we are living in the age of grace. When the church is removed, the seventieth week of Daniel will begin and so the seven year tribulation period will unfold. Until the church age or age of grace comes to a close, we will not see these things mentioned above fulfilled. The hallmark of the tribulation is that these things will be happening on a global scale. And then of course, we see Christ set up his millennial reign, which Revelation 20:1-7 mentions six times.
The Bible says the antichrist was already here! The antichrist is anyone who does not believe that Jesus is the Son of God.
It is not some major world leader or lone figure.
What is the tribulation to you? how do you define it?
Yes, that's true. The SPIRIT (attitude) of antichrist HAS been already here and is STILL here! As Yochanan (John) said,
1 John 2:18-23
18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
KJV
1 John 4:1-3
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
KJV
2 John 7
7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
KJV
On the other hand, that person whom many call "THE Antichrist," who is actually the "man against the Torah" (aka the "man of sin" or "man of lawlessness" or "lawless one"), who may also be the beast of Revelation 13, he has NOT been revealed, yet. THAT'S the one to whom others are referring when they say "Antichrist" capitalized as a title.
In the Messiah's love,
Roy
_____________________________
Stick to the Scriptures! The minute you start to draw an analogy or explain what a Scripture means or give a particular view of theology, you've left the safety of Absolute Truth, and you're on your own!
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RE: 1,000 years literal or figurative? Why? - 6/30/2009 10:57:32 PM
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DoveMinistries
Posts: 308
Joined: 6/8/2009
Status: offline
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2Peter 3:8
8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
The New King James Version
Somthing to ponder!
God Bless
R Dove
_____________________________
The Consummation of Love,
Love has been perfected amoung us in this; that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world. 1John 4:17
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RE: 1,000 years literal or figurative? Why? - 6/30/2009 11:21:39 PM
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bob97
Posts: 2252
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
Status: offline
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I'm pondering that Dove and I'm not quite sure what I'm coming up with...
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: 1,000 years literal or figurative? Why? - 6/30/2009 11:23:30 PM
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bob97
Posts: 2252
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
Status: offline
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jj...I've read a lot of you post and you really confuse me...what is you theology anyway?
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: 1,000 years literal or figurative? Why? - 7/1/2009 12:51:44 AM
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Retrobyter
Posts: 804
Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Florida
Status: offline
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Shalom, ForeverRedeemed.
quote:
ORIGINAL: ForeverRedeemed
quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
quote:
ORIGINAL: jjbird
If we allow the bible to interpret itself genres of scripture that uses imagery we can see that the number 1,000 is not literal.
Just like there is no literal dragon since we all know that dragons do not exist. Just like there are no beasts that resemble a leopard that have feet like a bear and a mouth like a lion! (Rev.13)
They are images to convey ideas and truths but not literal ones.
Regarding dragons, there is strong evidence that they most certainly did exist until very recently, and some biologists believe there are places they may still live. The problem people have is that they imagine a dragon in the Tolkien-esque, firebreathing, flying, gold-hoarding, damsel eating sense. In reality, they were/are merely large reptiles of some sort, a la dinosaurs.
Unless of course you think God chose an imaginary beast to use.
Might want to reconsider that thought .....
In all this discussion of dragons, no one has mentioned leviathan!!!
The books of Job and Pslams speak of leviathan, which, by the description, sure sounds like a fire-breathing dragon to me!
Job 41: 1 Can thou draw out leviathan with a hook? Or his tongue with a cord which thou layest down?
Job 41:15 His scales are his pride …
Job 41:20 Out of his nostrils go smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron.
Job 41: 21 His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goesth out of his mouth.
Here is something to consider: The serpent was not figurative in the garden. It was there, it was real.
Just b/c something represents Satan does not necessarily mean it is figurative.
Dragons were real and are spoken of in the Bible and throughout history.
Look at Babylon, what adorned the walls of their city? The likeness of dragons.
Look at China, what are most of their jade figures of? Dragons.
People in very vast and different areas of the world all have the same likeness and recounts of this animal.
If you research, the word dinosaur was coined and added to the dictionary in 1841, and prior to that was called a dragon.
Dragons imaginary? Tell that to Marco Polo!!! lol
(Genghis Kahn who was into conquering and killing, a man of very few words, gave Marco Polo the position in his court of "Feeder of the Royal Dragons")
YES! And, there are still other examples: There's an old movie called "Baby: Secret of the Lost Legend," starring William Katt, Sean Young, and Patrick McGoohan, that is based on REAL legends of creatures that supposedly existed deep in the jungles of Africa's Congo region.
Many depictions of dinosaurs can be found worldwide. Consider the website Genesis Park.
In the Messiah's love,
Roy
_____________________________
Stick to the Scriptures! The minute you start to draw an analogy or explain what a Scripture means or give a particular view of theology, you've left the safety of Absolute Truth, and you're on your own!
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RE: 1,000 years literal or figurative? Why? - 7/1/2009 10:48:40 AM
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ForeverRedeemed
Posts: 181
Joined: 3/26/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jjbird
quote:
ORIGINAL: ForeverRedeemed
Wow, you all have been bringing up some great topics for discussion within this thread!
jjbird -
I'm interested to hear what your thoughts are on my comment regarding a literal 1,000 years that I posted above?
You mentioned the book of Ezekiel, so you might be familiar with the lengthy description of the Millennial Temple and everything referenced in regards to it. EIGHT chapters! I found it particularly interesting that there is so much detail. The temple furniture is described. As I said above, detailed descriptions right down to the sizes of the dressing rooms for the singers!
Some teach we are living in the 1,000 year reign right now, which is foolish considering we have not seen the antichrist set himself up in the temple at Jerusalem to be worshipped. We have not seen fire fall from heaven. We have not seen 1/2 to 2/3rd's of the fresh water destroyed. We have not seen 2/3rd's of the world's population extinguished. We have not seen the Lord set his feet upon the Mount of Olives, which, will split and have a river run through it! And most importantly, in order for the 1,000 year reign to begin, the Tribulation period would be complete, meaning that Jesus has returned - destroying his enemies by the Word of his mouth, causing blood to flow to the horses bridles! And after that, there is a seven month period where they clean up the dead. Just hasn't happened in history.
We have to remember that we are living in the age of grace. When the church is removed, the seventieth week of Daniel will begin and so the seven year tribulation period will unfold. Until the church age or age of grace comes to a close, we will not see these things mentioned above fulfilled. The hallmark of the tribulation is that these things will be happening on a global scale. And then of course, we see Christ set up his millennial reign, which Revelation 20:1-7 mentions six times.
The Bible says the antichrist was already here! The antichrist is anyone who does not believe that Jesus is the Son of God.
It is not some major world leader or lone figure.
What is the tribulation to you? how do you define it?
Good morning jjbird!
I believe you'll find it is the "spirit" of the antichrist that is already here.
Let me get together my definition of the tribulation and post it tomorrow. Unfortunately, I have to be at work in fifteen minutes! Think on this though .... what is the PURPOSE of the Tribulation period?
...... though the actual antichrist is a single world leader, he does not act alone! I believe the person who is going to be the antichrist - set himself up to be worshipped as God - is alive and well right now on planet earth!
Enjoy your day!
_____________________________
<----- My Buddy!
"I've been changed from the creature that once I was,
I am no longer in bondage, I've been plunged 'neath the flow -
I'm washed whiter than snow . . .
I am FOREVER REDEEMED!!!!!"
http://goodnewsnow.info
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RE: 1,000 years literal or figurative? Why? - 7/1/2009 11:43:36 AM
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jjbird
Posts: 505
Joined: 5/20/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ForeverRedeemed
quote:
ORIGINAL: jjbird
quote:
ORIGINAL: ForeverRedeemed
Wow, you all have been bringing up some great topics for discussion within this thread!
jjbird -
I'm interested to hear what your thoughts are on my comment regarding a literal 1,000 years that I posted above?
You mentioned the book of Ezekiel, so you might be familiar with the lengthy description of the Millennial Temple and everything referenced in regards to it. EIGHT chapters! I found it particularly interesting that there is so much detail. The temple furniture is described. As I said above, detailed descriptions right down to the sizes of the dressing rooms for the singers!
Some teach we are living in the 1,000 year reign right now, which is foolish considering we have not seen the antichrist set himself up in the temple at Jerusalem to be worshipped. We have not seen fire fall from heaven. We have not seen 1/2 to 2/3rd's of the fresh water destroyed. We have not seen 2/3rd's of the world's population extinguished. We have not seen the Lord set his feet upon the Mount of Olives, which, will split and have a river run through it! And most importantly, in order for the 1,000 year reign to begin, the Tribulation period would be complete, meaning that Jesus has returned - destroying his enemies by the Word of his mouth, causing blood to flow to the horses bridles! And after that, there is a seven month period where they clean up the dead. Just hasn't happened in history.
We have to remember that we are living in the age of grace. When the church is removed, the seventieth week of Daniel will begin and so the seven year tribulation period will unfold. Until the church age or age of grace comes to a close, we will not see these things mentioned above fulfilled. The hallmark of the tribulation is that these things will be happening on a global scale. And then of course, we see Christ set up his millennial reign, which Revelation 20:1-7 mentions six times.
The Bible says the antichrist was already here! The antichrist is anyone who does not believe that Jesus is the Son of God.
It is not some major world leader or lone figure.
What is the tribulation to you? how do you define it?
Good morning jjbird!
I believe you'll find it is the "spirit" of the antichrist that is already here.
Let me get together my definition of the tribulation and post it tomorrow. Unfortunately, I have to be at work in fifteen minutes! Think on this though .... what is the PURPOSE of the Tribulation period?
...... though the actual antichrist is a single world leader, he does not act alone! I believe the person who is going to be the antichrist - set himself up to be worshipped as God - is alive and well right now on planet earth!
Enjoy your day!
The Caesars did that in Rome!
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RE: 1,000 years literal or figurative? Why? - 7/1/2009 11:50:39 AM
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WesP
Posts: 1440
Joined: 11/28/2005
From: Where God needs me to be
Status: offline
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quote:
The Caesars did that in Rome!
But how are they associated with the AoD?
_____________________________
Peace,
Wes
___________________________________
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RE: 1,000 years literal or figurative? Why? - 7/1/2009 12:11:45 PM
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jjbird
Posts: 505
Joined: 5/20/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WesP
quote:
The Caesars did that in Rome!
But how are they associated with the AoD?
Not sure what you are talking about
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RE: 1,000 years literal or figurative? Why? - 7/1/2009 12:37:55 PM
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bob97
Posts: 2252
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
Status: offline
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jj...how do you explain 2 Thessalonians when Paul talks about the Day of the Lord can not come until the man of sin is revealed, when he sets in the temple of God claiming to be God?
Has the Day of the Lord occurred...did we miss it? You can say this all occurred in 70AD but the fact is these things are tied together and are future occurrences.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: 1,000 years literal or figurative? Why? - 7/1/2009 8:39:59 PM
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DoveMinistries
Posts: 308
Joined: 6/8/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
I've read a lot of you post and you really confuse me...what is you theology anyway?
quote:
2Peter 3:8
8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
Christian of course. is there somthing confussing to you about the posting of scripture? This was just somthing to ponder.
God Bless
R Dove
_____________________________
The Consummation of Love,
Love has been perfected amoung us in this; that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world. 1John 4:17
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RE: 1,000 years literal or figurative? Why? - 7/1/2009 8:56:45 PM
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bob97
Posts: 2252
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
Status: offline
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Sorry R. Dove but that post was not intended for you, it was to jjbird.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: 1,000 years literal or figurative? Why? - 7/1/2009 9:28:43 PM
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DoveMinistries
Posts: 308
Joined: 6/8/2009
Status: offline
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No problem I thought it was for me.
God Bless
R Dove
_____________________________
The Consummation of Love,
Love has been perfected amoung us in this; that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world. 1John 4:17
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RE: 1,000 years literal or figurative? Why? - 7/8/2009 2:15:44 PM
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ForeverRedeemed
Posts: 181
Joined: 3/26/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jjbird
quote:
ORIGINAL: ForeverRedeemed
quote:
ORIGINAL: jjbird
quote:
ORIGINAL: ForeverRedeemed
Wow, you all have been bringing up some great topics for discussion within this thread!
jjbird -
I'm interested to hear what your thoughts are on my comment regarding a literal 1,000 years that I posted above?
You mentioned the book of Ezekiel, so you might be familiar with the lengthy description of the Millennial Temple and everything referenced in regards to it. EIGHT chapters! I found it particularly interesting that there is so much detail. The temple furniture is described. As I said above, detailed descriptions right down to the sizes of the dressing rooms for the singers!
Some teach we are living in the 1,000 year reign right now, which is foolish considering we have not seen the antichrist set himself up in the temple at Jerusalem to be worshipped. We have not seen fire fall from heaven. We have not seen 1/2 to 2/3rd's of the fresh water destroyed. We have not seen 2/3rd's of the world's population extinguished. We have not seen the Lord set his feet upon the Mount of Olives, which, will split and have a river run through it! And most importantly, in order for the 1,000 year reign to begin, the Tribulation period would be complete, meaning that Jesus has returned - destroying his enemies by the Word of his mouth, causing blood to flow to the horses bridles! And after that, there is a seven month period where they clean up the dead. Just hasn't happened in history.
We have to remember that we are living in the age of grace. When the church is removed, the seventieth week of Daniel will begin and so the seven year tribulation period will unfold. Until the church age or age of grace comes to a close, we will not see these things mentioned above fulfilled. The hallmark of the tribulation is that these things will be happening on a global scale. And then of course, we see Christ set up his millennial reign, which Revelation 20:1-7 mentions six times.
The Bible says the antichrist was already here! The antichrist is anyone who does not believe that Jesus is the Son of God.
It is not some major world leader or lone figure.
What is the tribulation to you? how do you define it?
Good morning jjbird!
I believe you'll find it is the "spirit" of the antichrist that is already here.
Let me get together my definition of the tribulation and post it tomorrow. Unfortunately, I have to be at work in fifteen minutes! Think on this though .... what is the PURPOSE of the Tribulation period?
...... though the actual antichrist is a single world leader, he does not act alone! I believe the person who is going to be the antichrist - set himself up to be worshipped as God - is alive and well right now on planet earth!
Enjoy your day!
The Caesars did that in Rome!
Good afternoon jjbird!
I apologize for not getting right back to you, I had a family medical emergency and life is just now getting back to normal (if there is such a thing LOL!).
Anyway, you asked me what the Tribulation is to me and how I would define it.
To give on overly simplified answer with out a long definition, as I understand it:
The Tribulation is the "time of Jacob's trouble"
It is about Purging and Punishment
Purging for the nation of Israel
Punishment for all other nations who have chosen to disobey God and reject His only Son, Jesus.
Now I do need to say that I believe the "system" of the anti-christ has been in place for quite some time now (I'd say officially since 300 AD when Constantine mandated Christianity. Is that what you are referring to when you say the Caesars did that in Rome?) I believe we can trace back even to Nimrod in Genesis 9 and see the "spirit" of anti-christ in place. Every system has a leader. There will be a time in the future when the Son of Perdition sets himself up to be worshipped in the temple as God. That has not happened yet. Nor have people been required to take a/the mark to buy or sell, ... yet. It's close at hand!
Remember - the "time of Jacob's trouble", the seventieth week of Daniel. Once the church is removed, that time clock will start the count down for those seven years of tribulation "like the world has never seen!"
A few evidences that the Tribulation has not passed:
(maybe some others would like to name some more)
1) Blood has not flowed to the horses bridles.
Revelation 14:20
Re 14:20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.
2) No seven month period of cleaning up dead bodies in the land of Israel to "cleanse the land."
Read Ezekiel 39:7-22
And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land
3) I've not seen 100 pound hail balls fall from the sky.
Revelation 16:21
Re 16:21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.
4) I haven't witnessed the Lord slaying all by the Word of His mouth on a white horse with the armies of heaven.
Re 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Re 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
We have not seen fire fall from heaven. We have not seen 1/2 to 2/3rd's of the fresh water destroyed. We have not seen 2/3rd's of the world's population extinguished. We have not seen the Lord set his feet upon the Mount of Olives, which, will split and have a river run through it! And most importantly, in order for the 1,000 year reign to begin, the Tribulation period would be complete, meaning that Jesus has returned - destroying his enemies by the Word of his mouth, causing blood to flow to the horses bridles! And after that, there is a seven month period where they clean up the dead. Just hasn't happened in history.
I don't believe the anti-christ will act alone. Remember that Satan has his holy trinity too, consisting of himself, the ant-christ and the false prophet.
And I'm just going to throw out this thought -
During the seven year Tribulation period, the anti-christ will have three seats of power:
Political - Babylon
Religious - Rome
Economical - Jerusalem
Re 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
2Th 2:7; Re 11:8; 14:8; 16:19; 18:2,9-10,21; 19:2
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
There is only one place on earth that I know of that fits that description!
Are you thinking what I'm thinking?
Can you tell me what your thoughts are on Ezekiel and the Millenial temple? I feel that portion of scripture addresses whether the 1,000 years are literal or figurative. We are given very detailed and extensive descriptions. Let's hear your thoughts!
_____________________________
<----- My Buddy!
"I've been changed from the creature that once I was,
I am no longer in bondage, I've been plunged 'neath the flow -
I'm washed whiter than snow . . .
I am FOREVER REDEEMED!!!!!"
http://goodnewsnow.info
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RE: 1,000 years literal or figurative? Why? - 7/9/2009 11:07:49 AM
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jjbird
Posts: 505
Joined: 5/20/2009
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ForeverRedeemed
quote:
ORIGINAL: jjbird
quote:
ORIGINAL: ForeverRedeemed
quote:
ORIGINAL: jjbird
quote:
ORIGINAL: ForeverRedeemed
Wow, you all have been bringing up some great topics for discussion within this thread!
jjbird -
I'm interested to hear what your thoughts are on my comment regarding a literal 1,000 years that I posted above?
You mentioned the book of Ezekiel, so you might be familiar with the lengthy description of the Millennial Temple and everything referenced in regards to it. EIGHT chapters! I found it particularly interesting that there is so much detail. The temple furniture is described. As I said above, detailed descriptions right down to the sizes of the dressing rooms for the singers!
Some teach we are living in the 1,000 year reign right now, which is foolish considering we have not seen the antichrist set himself up in the temple at Jerusalem to be worshipped. We have not seen fire fall from heaven. We have not seen 1/2 to 2/3rd's of the fresh water destroyed. We have not seen 2/3rd's of the world's population extinguished. We have not seen the Lord set his feet upon the Mount of Olives, which, will split and have a river run through it! And most importantly, in order for the 1,000 year reign to begin, the Tribulation period would be complete, meaning that Jesus has returned - destroying his enemies by the Word of his mouth, causing blood to flow to the horses bridles! And after that, there is a seven month period where they clean up the dead. Just hasn't happened in history.
We have to remember that we are living in the age of grace. When the church is removed, the seventieth week of Daniel will begin and so the seven year tribulation period will unfold. Until the church age or age of grace comes to a close, we will not see these things mentioned above fulfilled. The hallmark of the tribulation is that these things will be happening on a global scale. And then of course, we see Christ set up his millennial reign, which Revelation 20:1-7 mentions six times.
The Bible says the antichrist was already here! The antichrist is anyone who does not believe that Jesus is the Son of God.
It is not some major world leader or lone figure.
What is the tribulation to you? how do you define it?
Good morning jjbird!
I believe you'll find it is the "spirit" of the antichrist that is already here.
Let me get together my definition of the tribulation and post it tomorrow. Unfortunately, I have to be at work in fifteen minutes! Think on this though .... what is the PURPOSE of the Tribulation period?
...... though the actual antichrist is a single world leader, he does not act alone! I believe the person who is going to be the antichrist - set himself up to be worshipped as God - is alive and well right now on planet earth!
Enjoy your day!
The Caesars did that in Rome!
Good afternoon jjbird!
I apologize for not getting right back to you, I had a family medical emergency and life is just now getting back to normal (if there is such a thing LOL!).
Anyway, you asked me what the Tribulation is to me and how I would define it.
To give on overly simplified answer with out a long definition, as I understand it:
The Tribulation is the "time of Jacob's trouble"
It is about Purging and Punishment
Purging for the nation of Israel
Punishment for all other nations who have chosen to disobey God and reject His only Son, Jesus.
Hmmm......some issues here.
Tribulation biblically is something Christians go thru.
Check the context!
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RE: 1,000 years literal or figurative? Why? - 7/10/2009 8:45:23 PM
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agapeflight
Posts: 120
Joined: 3/29/2009
Status: offline
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the term thousand years in the NT can be figurative of a large amount of time and in fact it is meant that way especially in that passage 'one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.' We have cultural evidence for this form the ancients themselves, but we also have anecdotal evidence from the many attempts to calculate a chronology for the Bible. The most famous gaff is probably Bishop Usher's timeline which suggested creation happened on a Sunday in 4004 B.C. So if the 1000yrs/1day theory is correct Christ ought to have returned for the milennium in 1996. I believe that the term used in Revelation may be similarly understood to mean that Christ will reign on the earth for a time long enough to complete the works of that age. A literal thousand years is just fine with me too so I try not to get too hung up on it.
I heard a Calvary Chapel guy the other day say that they knew when Christ was going to return correlated to Revelation 19, but not the day or hour of the Rapture. He then went off on some dogmatic schpeel about pre-trib rapture.
Whatever. As far as I am concerned I am glad the church age is coming to a close, there is still to much room for error in a church plagued by it's sin nature. The millenium will be a time of triumph and renewal and refreshing in expectation of the glorious eternity just beyond.
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RE: 1,000 years literal or figurative? Why? - 8/1/2009 9:43:32 PM
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Oseas2
Posts: 99
Joined: 7/31/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jjbird
What system of theological checks and balances do you use to determine that the 1,000 yrs in Revelation are literal years? How do determine them being literal theologically?
----------------------------------------------------
If a number is used in the sentence, it can mean nothing other than the number given, not more, not less.
Now for the physical thousand year reign of Christ here on earth, Rev 20: 1-7 mentions "1,000 years" 6 times.
Look at the sentence structure: v2 - Satan bound in the abyss for 1,000 years; v3 - until the 1,000 years have ended; v4 - they came to life and reigned with Christ a 1,000 years; v4 - the rest of the dead did not come to life until the 1,000 years were ended; v6 -but they will be priests of God and Christ and will reign with him for a 1,000 years; v7 - when the 1,000 years are over Satan will be released from his prison.
If not 1,000 years, How long of a time period is it. Be precise.
In Christ
Montana Marv
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Firstly, you must not lose sight of: with the Lord one day is like a thousand years and a thousand years like one day (II Peter 3: 8). According to Original Hebraic Chronology, the period of Adam until Jesus Christ, can be divided in six (6) periods, as below :
PERIODS------------------------------------ DURATION
I-From Adam until the Flood--------------1.656 years
II-From the Flood until Abraham------------427 years
III-From Abraham until Exodus--------------430 years
IV-From Exodus until king Saul ------------396 years
V-From Saul to the fall of Jerusalem ------508 years
VI-From the fall of Jerusalem until Jesus- 587 years
Sub-total................................ 4004 years
Year 4004 BC - End of fourth Day – First
coming of Jesus Christ, the true Messiah.
From the beginning of Christian Era
until this time,that is the fullness
of Gentiles -----------------------------2.009 years
Total------------------------------------6.013 years
6,013 years = six millenniums = six days in the
God’s time clock or God’s week. So we have
just entered into the Seventh Millennium.
7th Period - The Seventh Day of God's week.
Millennium of Christ - The Day of the Lord –
Details about the times based in Genesis 5: vv.3 to 28 and 7: v.11 that prove the first period of 1.656 years from Adam until the flood:
Adam lived 130 years and begat Seth;
Seth "... 105 ..."..."..".... Enos;
Enos ".... 90 ..."..."..".... Cainan;
Cainan "... 70 ..."..."..".... Mahalaleel;
Mahalaleel" 65 ..."...".."... Jared;
Jared ...".162 ..."...".."... Enoch;
Enoch....". 65 ..."...".."... Methuselah;
Methuselah"187 ..."...".."... Lamech;
Lamech ..."182 ..."...".."... Noah;
Noah until the Deluge 600 years
TOTAL.....1.656 years.
See more:
Adam lived 130 years and begot Seth, OK?
When Seth begot Enos, Adam was 235 years old, OK?
And when Enos begot Cainan, Adam was 325 years old;
When Cainan begot Mahalaleel, Adam was 395 years old;
When Mahalaleel begot Jared Adam was 460 years old;
And when Jared begot Enoch, Adam was 622 years old;
When Enoch begot Methuselah,Adam was 687 years old;
When Methuselah begot Lamech,Adam was 874 years old;
And when Lamech begot Noah, Adam had died 126 years ago or, on another hand, when Adam died Lamech was 56 years old or yet Noah was not born at least.
If we take the year one of Adam until the birth of Noah, we can see that passed itself 1,056 years plus 600 years of Noha's age it completes 1,656, It signifies that Noah was born 126 years after Adam’s death.
Hear who have ears to hear.
The kingdom of God is coming. I hope the Holy Spirit shines this revelation in your heart. Jesus Christ is coming and is geting, he is getting near but the Antichrist, the 666, the false messiah, the son of perdition (II Thes. 2:1-17), the second Beast of Apocalypse (Rev. 13:11-18), who will manifest himself in Israel very soon (see John 5:43 and 8: 44), he will come before the return of Jesus to the Earth.
The false messiah is already incarnated, so be ready because this actual evil and corrupt world will be annihilated totally.
PS. --> The times above were based in Scriptures exclusively, except the called Christian Calendar
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RE: 1,000 years literal or figurative? Why? - 8/2/2009 12:21:24 PM
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bob97
Posts: 2252
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
Status: offline
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quote:
If not 1,000 years, How long of a time period is it. Be precise.
I'm going to make a guess...how about 1000 years?
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: 1,000 years literal or figurative? Why? - 8/3/2009 10:17:03 AM
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bob97
Posts: 2252
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
Status: offline
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Mark you're always disagreeing with me brother...you never let me win  .
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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