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How much freedom should an author take with God/Jesus/etc.?
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How much freedom should an author take with God/Jesus/e... - 6/23/2009 1:07:27 PM
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stellaluna
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This partly prompted by the fictional God found in The Shack, but also with some things I've read from other Christian authors and some things I've read here in the Writers folder.
Is it appropriate to assign characteristics to God or Jesus (or to a lesser extent any other biblical character) that are not necessarily scriptural for the sake of literature? I'm leaving that wide open to include emotion, language, speech, anything.
Is it appropriate to put them in situations that are extra-biblical?
Is it appropriate as long as you make it clear what you are writing is fiction?
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RE: How much freedom should an author take with God/Jes... - 6/23/2009 2:23:03 PM
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moon_mouse
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As long as what you are writing isn't contrary to what is in Scripture, and you are clear that this is fiction, I wouldn't have a problem with it. I'd write a preface telling a little about your own background, so that your audience knows where you are "coming from" theologically, and make clear what things are your invention (as far as fictional characters or events...most fiction readers expect that the dialogue is your own invention).
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RE: How much freedom should an author take with God/Jes... - 6/23/2009 2:24:49 PM
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LCannon
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Jesus often related eternal concepts to physical ones; 'the Kingdom of God is like a mustard seed...' or the parable of the sower sowing the Word, the lost sheep/coin/son(actually two sons), etc. Poetic license wouldn't allow CS Lewis' 'Narnia Chronicles', 'Screwtape Letters' or John Bunyan's 'Pilgrim's Progress'. The reader is the final arbitrater in filtering truth from fantasy yet some authors(some reader too)make that as an excuse for believing the unbelievable, error or what they(the author and reader)choose to believe.
_____________________________
'I will never leave you nor forsake you.' (Joshua 1:5)
''Let the very worst thing come to pass[and]even there,
especially there; His hand will hold.' -Elisabeth Elliot-
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RE: How much freedom should an author take with God/Jes... - 6/23/2009 2:33:36 PM
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rcjames
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I would not sugest that we limit creeativity at all, but I think that from a Pastor's stand point that getting much off the God, Jesus, and Holy Spirit that is laid down in Scripture is a dangerous thing.
Over the years, I have ran across many folks who have some really weird views of God, His purpose, etc. And invaribly those ideas come from reading some extra Scriptual writing of some sort. (lately even a few blogs and forums have planted strange fire in the minds of some.
But that is just me.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
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RE: How much freedom should an author take with God/Jes... - 6/23/2009 2:52:25 PM
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doinkdom
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I believe there should always be a caution when we try to anthropomorphise God. Meaning, we attribute human characteristics to God when God is not human and does not operate by human standards.
In our depravity, we strive to bring God to our level of understanding, when in fact...we should be growing to an understanding that we will never "get" God. God is not a thing/person/entitty to be understood, but The One True God to be worshipped.
Consider the attempts beyond the book, The Shack to explain the Trinity. It cannot be done. They are all inadequate. They all have a fault to them or a point where "faith" must be relied upon. And more seriously, they provide fodder for our own minds to configure a god to our liking.
IMO, we have a responsibility as mature Christians to protect our new family members from fictitious nonsense that will taint their view of God without them even knowing it.
_____________________________
Rest assured, dear friends, that where your pleasure is, there your heart is.
- Charles Spurgeon
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RE: How much freedom should an author take with God/Jes... - 6/23/2009 3:25:14 PM
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Focusing
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While I realize that there are many people on these boards who feel quite differently than I do, I think we need to realize that God is big enough and great enough to use many different means to reach people. If we want to analyze things and determine whether they are “worthy” or not, we need to include a whole lot of contemporary Christian music, and pastors’ sermons, someone has already mentioned C.S. Lewis, the numerous Bible studies available in bookstores and online, not to mention the dozens of devotionals available. I mean, we as believers may as well just censor out everything that isn’t the Bible itself if we want to get really particular about it. Where do we stop? At translations that we don’t particularly care for (what translation would be the ONLY acceptable translation)? Do we cut out commentaries from people we think are interpreting Scripture differently that we do? Do we outlaw books because there’s a group who has decided they don’t like the beliefs of the writer?
There seems to me to be a lack of faith in God … that we are trying to limit Him from doing work that only He can do. I don’t want to be a part of that. How would I ever answer if He were to ask me “Why did you grab that book from so-and-so? I was planning to use it for My Glory?” Of course, He will find another way to reach them, He is God … and God goes with the flow.
Fiction is fiction, and as parents and for the mature believers, it is your responsibility to guide children and younger believers along the correct path. That’s right, I said YOUR responsibility … I consider myself an adolescent believer, and I don’t have nearly the issues that others, perhaps more mature believers, try to tell me I will have. I have wonderful spiritual mentors who have taught and continue to teach me well, and they have taught me how to follow The Path of Truth through using my own faith in the Lord. What they don’t do is tell me that I cannot read this or that. They encourage me to read what I am interested in, and then they will discuss it with me.
To me, it’s more about teaching a younger believer how to find their way, as opposed to telling them what to do. If a person is being led by the hand, how will they ever truly learn to find The Way?
So how much freedom do I think an author *should* have? As much as he wants. It’s OUR responsibility to decide for ourselves what is or is not acceptable. I think people understand what fiction is. If they don’t, well, they have bigger issues on their hands.
_____________________________
11/21 is the 11th Annual National Survivors of Suicide Day
Please remember to lift those in prayer who have lost a loved one to suicide
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RE: How much freedom should an author take with God/Jes... - 6/23/2009 4:01:53 PM
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stellaluna
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I'm actually talking about using God or Jesus as a character. Putting words in their mouths, giving them emotion, action, etc.
And I would submit that almost anything using God or Jesus as a character would be fictional, if one is supposing what they would do and/or say that is extra-biblical.
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RE: How much freedom should an author take with God/Jes... - 6/23/2009 4:08:33 PM
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doinkdom
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
I'm actually talking about using God or Jesus as a character. Putting words in their mouths, giving them emotion, action, etc.
And I would submit that almost anything using God or Jesus as a character would be fictional, if one is supposing what they would do and/or say that is extra-biblical.
Ya mean like what Anne Rice did in her book?
_____________________________
Rest assured, dear friends, that where your pleasure is, there your heart is.
- Charles Spurgeon
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RE: How much freedom should an author take with God/Jes... - 6/23/2009 4:10:48 PM
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Focusing
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quote:
And I would submit that almost anything using God or Jesus as a character would be fictional, if one is supposing what they would do and/or say that is extra-biblical.
I would say that it would all be fictional unless they are quoting Scripture.
I don't have any problem with an author using God or Jesus as a character. It's still up to the reader to use discernment. Just as in all things.
_____________________________
11/21 is the 11th Annual National Survivors of Suicide Day
Please remember to lift those in prayer who have lost a loved one to suicide
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RE: How much freedom should an author take with God/Jes... - 6/23/2009 4:17:11 PM
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moon_mouse
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Yes, I understood what you meant, and I'd stay with my previous answer. I would not put anything into His mouth that contradicts what the Bible says. For example, I would not have God revealing that He is actually a highly advanced space alien, since the Bible pretty clearly indicates that God is not a created being. I would also preface what is based on Scripture and what is not. For example, if I wrote a story about God talking to Noah about all the types of animals He would be bringing to the ark, I'd put in my preface that the conversations are my own inventions, and the actual story may be found in Genesis chapter 6.
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RE: How much freedom should an author take with God/Jes... - 6/23/2009 4:32:26 PM
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URForgiven
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If we are going to take anthropomorphizing God out of the equation, then we will have to take the Bible out of the equation.
All descriptions of God in the Bible fall short. God is like this. God is like that. And the closer they get to Him the more they struggled to find words and examples that could relate Him to us. There are no words, no examples in our experience that relate.
The fullest revelation of God is in Jesus Christ. God in a human suit. God coming down to our level. We can tell the story of His humanity with fair certainty, but how do we fairly tell the story of His Deity? Any story, book or movie that depicts God, is going to fall short. Does that mean we should not try?
God is like ___________. Fill in the blank. Take your best shot. In the end it will fall far short...for whatever we imagine God to be, He is not.
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: How much freedom should an author take with God/Jes... - 6/23/2009 6:08:32 PM
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makarizo
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how about that strange guy with a beard that everyone has called jesus ....... or that guy sitting at the center of the supper table with those other 12 other guys?
I know those weren't books, they were images created by some author/painter/musician who created art, and invited you to look at it, and appreciate it, or detest it, to inspire you, or to make you sick.
If their freedoms are banned, would it put you/us on the same level as those who are trying to ban the bible?
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RE: How much freedom should an author take with God/Jes... - 6/23/2009 6:50:31 PM
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stellaluna
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Who said anything about banning anything?
Although, yes, I take issue with any portrayal of Jesus as something other than a Middle Eastern Jew. (If we have to attempt to describe what he looked like.)
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RE: How much freedom should an author take with God/Jes... - 6/23/2009 7:16:33 PM
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makarizo
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
Who said anything about banning anything?
Although, yes, I take issue with any portrayal of Jesus as something other than a Middle Eastern Jew. (If we have to attempt to describe what he looked like.)
if we took away the freedom......., I interpreted that as censuring, or banning... if I read something into the OP, ..... sorry, I have some passion about this.
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RE: How much freedom should an author take with God/Jes... - 6/24/2009 12:59:13 AM
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zamdad
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INteresting discussion. I read "The Shack. I found it to be a very intriguing read. There have been countless movies and TV shows that have tried to put character to God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit. One of the things I find among the plethora of critics is that they seem to be more upset that someone else has taken God outside the box they've created for themselves and others.
We do this with other people as well. We create categories to bring them down to our own understanding instead of seeking to understand them better and get to know them, love them as Christ commanded.
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Never make someone else a priority while you remain an option!
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RE: How much freedom should an author take with God/Jes... - 6/24/2009 8:05:41 AM
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makarizo
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I think those Godboxeruppers should read "the Jesus I never knew" by P Yancey
the book even challenged me.... that is a feat all in it's own
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RE: How much freedom should an author take with God/Jes... - 6/24/2009 9:48:14 AM
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DaveW
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Do you mean like the confused guy who was a victim of his own success in "Jesus Christ Superstar?"
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RE: How much freedom should an author take with God/Jes... - 6/24/2009 10:26:01 AM
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doinkdom
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quote:
ORIGINAL: makarizo
I think those Godboxeruppers should read "the Jesus I never knew" by P Yancey
the book even challenged me.... that is a feat all in it's own
I read that book and liked it.
_____________________________
Rest assured, dear friends, that where your pleasure is, there your heart is.
- Charles Spurgeon
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RE: How much freedom should an author take with God/Jes... - 6/24/2009 11:39:01 AM
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Consecrated2God
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quote:
How much freedom should an author take with God/Jesus/etc.?
Very little. An author should be very careful to not create another god with their writings.
_____________________________
"A faith that can be destroyed by suffering is not faith."--Richard Wurmbrand
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RE: How much freedom should an author take with God/Jes... - 6/24/2009 6:01:59 PM
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makarizo
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okay C2G, that is the appropriate good, common sense diplomatic answer, but to a writer, that might be a self defeating, non provocative, and boring thing, and no matter what is written, it will be misunderstood by the majority of readers anyway.
I don't want every one to see the world exactly like I do, don't want everyone to perceive the same things about religion that I do. I have a personal relationship with Christ, and if I included Him in a book, I am quite positive there would be a line up of conspiracy hunters trying to shoot me down.
why do you think "Jesus of Montreal" did so well????
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RE: How much freedom should an author take with God/Jes... - 6/25/2009 7:52:18 AM
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Consecrated2God
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I love the A.D. Chronicles by Bodie and Brock Thoene. They are not boring by any means, and the authors are so careful to research and portray Jesus in a biblical manner. I love books where the authors have done their homework. Lynn Austin is another author that writes biblical fiction and researches her stuff well. She writes a series on Chronicles, and her portrayal of God in the Old Testament is also very biblical and true to God's character.
_____________________________
"A faith that can be destroyed by suffering is not faith."--Richard Wurmbrand
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RE: How much freedom should an author take with God/Jes... - 6/25/2009 10:08:08 AM
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stampinlady
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I guess if I were a writer I'd be thinking that one day I have to give an account and be held accountable. That's pretty serious to me.
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Deb
"When the fufillment comes the types and shadows cease."
Author unknown
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RE: How much freedom should an author take with God/Jes... - 6/25/2009 12:17:29 PM
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NotreDame
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quote:
ORIGINAL: doinkdom
I believe there should always be a caution when we try to anthropomorphise God. Meaning, we attribute human characteristics to God when God is not human and does not operate by human standards.
In our depravity, we strive to bring God to our level of understanding, when in fact...we should be growing to an understanding that we will never "get" God. God is not a thing/person/entitty to be understood, but The One True God to be worshipped.
Consider the attempts beyond the book, The Shack to explain the Trinity. It cannot be done. They are all inadequate. They all have a fault to them or a point where "faith" must be relied upon. And more seriously, they provide fodder for our own minds to configure a god to our liking.
IMO, we have a responsibility as mature Christians to protect our new family members from fictitious nonsense that will taint their view of God without them even knowing it.
quote:
IMO, we have a responsibility as mature Christians to protect our new family members from fictitious nonsense that will taint their view of God without them even knowing it.
A warning to the new family members, some of which will undoubtedly be adults, the material they are about to read or are reading is entirely "fictional," is not "real" and should not be construed as such is not sufficient to protect them from what you render as "fictitious non-sense" tainting their view of God? I do not think your suggestion of censorship is needed but an admonishment to the new members the book is fiction and for an accurate depiction of God and his attributes, they should defer exclusively to the bible.
_____________________________
I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents.
James Madison, Father of the U.S. Constitution.
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