I think I know (Full Version)

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cynthia -> I think I know (6/23/2009 7:50:15 PM)

I think I know a lot about public school.

I was reading a thread in the public and private school folder and someone mentioned that many homeschoolers who complain about public school have never even had their children in one, implying that we don’t know what we’re talking about or have misconceptions.

Personally I went to public school for thirteen years. That gives me a pretty good idea of what it’s like. I’m not so ancient that I’ve forgotten. My public school experience was what made me never want to send my children there. I admit, my children will go to public school for vocational training and community college, but they will be well prepared for it and not so easily messed up by the factors that caused me so much grief.

Not only that, but there are things about public school that are innate that I understand much better now that I’ve studied education from a homeschool perspective. These are things that make it something I am only interested in for very narrow reasons; vocational and community college. It will be much easier for me to make sure they get a good education than if I had to deal with a middle man; the public school. It’s a lot easier for me to deliver a quality education myself rather than try to deal with a system in the way. Now for vocational education and some college, this is not the case, for various reasons.

Yes, I know that some parents can put their children in public school and the children come out strong, godly people with a great education, but that is the exception, not the rule. I do not understand God’s ways and will not question a person who believes the Lord wants their children in a public school. Many godly parents do a good job with raising their children in the public school systems. Furthermore, not all public school systems are like the ones in my area (thank God).

Anyway, the point of this is directed at homeschooling parents who know as much about the public education system as parents with children in it. To imply that we don’t know since we haven’t used it with our children is false, especially if we spent time in it ourselves.

As a homeschool parent, what do you think when you hear that homeschool parents who haven’t had their children in the public school don’t really know what they’re talking about when it comes to the public schools?



Bagel -> RE: I think I know (6/23/2009 7:57:36 PM)

That whoever made the comments never met a homeschooled kid? I went to a public school for several years and it very much played a part in my decision to homeschool. I had a sister in PS for 13 years and by then, I was hearing from my dad as to how it had changed from when I went.



shadowspring -> RE: I think I know (6/23/2009 9:07:16 PM)

I would just laugh.

I have had foreign exchange "children" in public schools and have had to deal with teachers and administrators as if I were the biological parent. And so I know today's public schools in my area very well.

Like most other professions, some excel, some are awful and many are average. Ditto administrators. Some are excellent, caring professionals who go the extra mile. Some are stressed and unhappy at their jobs and it shows. And a whole lot are just sort of there, doing their jobs well enough and going home. People are people.

But one way they have changed since I was in school- they are bigger and that is NOT better! The personal attention, what little was around back in the '80s, is impossible in our huge public high school.

Moreover the racial issue there is insane. My son's best friend is an awesome kid, totally wholesome and very friendly. He and his friends were told they couldn't rap at school anymore, because they were afraid it would start a riot! Seriously!

So he brought his classical guitar to school, and started playing at lunch. Again school admin called him in and told him he couldn't bring his guitar to school. It attracted too large a crowd (of minority students, but they won't admit to that part!) and they were afraid a riot would break out. Seriously! Over classical guitar!

This is what my son's friend has been telling us. But last week I was checking out at the grocery store, and a white kid at the register had a button that read "AKHS 2009 Grad" so I asked him how he liked AKHS. He said it was great except for the potential for race riots! Accckkkk! Wonder where he got THAT idea?

No thanks. In my home school we can teach the truth about the Civil War (States rights my foot! The South had no problem with Federal Law overriding a state law when it came to the Fugitive Slave Act of 1950! Can anyone say double-talk, boys and girls?), the Civil Rights movement (yup, only fifty years ago and right down the street! Folks over 50 years old around here LIVED IT!) and we don't need the federal government to force us to open our school (make that home) to all races because it already is!

Then there are the public school teachers in my Bible study, talking about middle school students having sex in the stairwell at school. õ_0

Yeah, I know all I want to know. Really.



2jsmom -> RE: I think I know (6/23/2009 9:35:13 PM)

I think they must think we live in a bubble and only talk to other homeschoolers. A lot of what I've learned about the public school system has come from the teachers in my family. All of them have horror stories about what has gone on in their schools and, from what they tell me, it just keeps getting worse.



cynthia -> RE: I think I know (6/23/2009 9:35:30 PM)

There are many wonderful school teachers. I had some. There are also many awful school teachers. I had some of those too. It's a potluck. You don't have any choice and teachers can torment students. Besides that, teachers do not get to choose the curriculum or world view of their material. In my homeschool, I can pick whatever I please.



judii1 -> RE: I think I know (6/23/2009 10:06:47 PM)

I agree with everything all of you have said.
I sent the older ones to ps. That's one of the reasons I homeschool.
I think I have met a lot more homeschoolers who have "been there done that" when it comes to ps. As a matter of fact, the principal of my grandkids' school actually homeschools his own kids. It kind of makes you wonder what he knows that some parents don't know!

We were at a Little League game tonight. Some of the middle school girls were sitting on the grass, eating popcorn. Well, they decided to have a popcorn fight, by sticking popcorn down the front of each others' shirts, and they didn't have on a lot of shirt, either. They were doing this in front of 10 yr old boys! One of the younger kids yelled at them to stop and said "Don't you know you're in public?"



bzirk -> RE: I think I know (6/24/2009 2:08:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cynthia

I think I know a lot about public school.

I was reading a thread in the public and private school folder and someone mentioned that many homeschoolers who complain about public school have never even had their children in one, implying that we don’t know what we’re talking about or have misconceptions.

Personally I went to public school for thirteen years. That gives me a pretty good idea of what it’s like. I’m not so ancient that I’ve forgotten. My public school experience was what made me never want to send my children there. I admit, my children will go to public school for vocational training and community college, but they will be well prepared for it and not so easily messed up by the factors that caused me so much grief.

Not only that, but there are things about public school that are innate that I understand much better now that I’ve studied education from a homeschool perspective. These are things that make it something I am only interested in for very narrow reasons; vocational and community college. It will be much easier for me to make sure they get a good education than if I had to deal with a middle man; the public school. It’s a lot easier for me to deliver a quality education myself rather than try to deal with a system in the way. Now for vocational education and some college, this is not the case, for various reasons.

Yes, I know that some parents can put their children in public school and the children come out strong, godly people with a great education, but that is the exception, not the rule. I do not understand God’s ways and will not question a person who believes the Lord wants their children in a public school. Many godly parents do a good job with raising their children in the public school systems. Furthermore, not all public school systems are like the ones in my area (thank God).

Anyway, the point of this is directed at homeschooling parents who know as much about the public education system as parents with children in it. To imply that we don’t know since we haven’t used it with our children is false, especially if we spent time in it ourselves.

As a homeschool parent, what do you think when you hear that homeschool parents who haven’t had their children in the public school don’t really know what they’re talking about when it comes to the public schools?


It's a little hard to think I've had no idea about public school when I'm a graduate of public school, and last time I checked, most people come out of public school, so chances are most homeschooling parents have most of their educational experiences with public school. Here's what everyone should be able to conclude about the public school. The public goes there, so it's a reflection of the public, and unless someone is under a rock, they're probably aware of the public. Granted, there are some homeschoolers who live in compounds, but most of them live in the real world with the rest of us. [:D]

BTW, great post.



hillbillywoman -> RE: I think I know (6/27/2009 12:59:54 AM)

I graduated from public school in 1981. My 3 kids attended public school until after my oldest began 7th grade in 1997. I thought the high school environment of my day was bad, but it wasn't as bad as the middle school environment was when my oldest child attended. I am now watching my nieces and nephew in their struggles with the public school system. So, when I complain about the public school system, I am speaking from experience and personal observation.



PixieSunBelle -> RE: I think I know (6/27/2009 4:28:52 PM)

I despise public school and I told my boyfriend that someday when we have children I never want them to endure public school... however some kids excel in that environment.
Middle school was the worst in my area. Well... i quit before high school was home schooled 1 year and then Christian School the rest...
However, my boyfriend being unsaved, he is all for Private Academies but not for Christian schools... I suppose a good compromise would be prep school lol. I don't think I would make a good teacher so I could never home school...



creationtalk -> RE: I think I know (6/27/2009 5:07:52 PM)

I always find it amusing when I am told that I know nothing about public school and that is why I home school. Both my parents taught in public schools. I graduated from public schools and I used to teach (or try to teach, in the case of some) future public school teachers. My decision to homeschool was based on my experiences TEACHING future (now present) teachers.

I also has a stepson that was in public school just a few years ago. I was horrified by a discussion with his teacher about spelling...I was working with dss (middle school) on his spelling. He was supposed to spell the words and know the definition--but his teacher had not made them learn the definitions, only a couple of "key words" of the definition. I told him he should learn the full definitions and expected him to be able to use the words in a sentence (demonstrate that he truly understood the meaning. He said that wasn't necessary....so I called his teacher. He was right. She didn't care if he knew what the words meant or how to use them as long as he could correctly spell them and recognize enough of the definition to draw a line from the spelled word to its definition (already written out).

I know of two public school teachers who are homeschooling their own children because they don't want them exposed to the PS atmosphere--at least one of these is a teacher in one of the "best" schools in the area.

I have had two retired teachers, three current teachers, and one current administrator in public schools all tell me that I am making the right decision in homeschooling my son. I have friends who send their children to public school that are very frustrated with the school system but are afraid to try to homeschool.

I once had to laugh at a research paper into the ways that public schools are now operating (published in the NEA journal)...it was a great paper pointing out all of the changes from the 50's when public schooling was at its height and doing a good job of educating students compared with the current methods...15 pages pointing how the current methods are failing, possible reasons why, comparing them with the ways that worked in the past...then I got to the conclusion. After reading the paper, I expected the conclusion to be we have to change back to what worked and stop experimenting with our children...but the 3/4 page conclusion said that we need to expand these failing methods because that is the best way to go.... I would have loved to talk to the authors about the type of pressure they got to change their conclusion...and whether or not they actually wrote the conclusion.



PixieSunBelle -> RE: I think I know (6/27/2009 5:29:42 PM)

Wow... in private school we had to write out the entire definition of like 10+ words for vocabulary. Of course, we were way past spelling because this was.....ummm i think 10th grade or something. We were given a list of words on a piece of paper and there was 5 lines to write out what the word's definition was. That is horrifying, by middle school you should be learning definitions!



cynthia -> RE: I think I know (6/27/2009 9:54:11 PM)

This comes down to the logical fallacy that you have to experience something to know whether or not it is good. This is very certainly not true.

I know that I’d love to take an Alaskan cruise, even thought I’ve never been to Alaska or taken a cruise. I know I don’t want to go to Iran, but I’ve never been there and have probably never even spoken to someone from Iran.

Experience is good, but it is certainly not necessary for making a good decision about whether or not one wants to do something.



Sunnymom -> RE: I think I know (7/1/2009 7:30:16 AM)

Many homeschoolers answer criticisms about homeschooling with the response that most PS parents know little to nothing about homeschooling, so it isn't surprising that they attempt the same comeback. The problem is that the federal education system is just that- a gov't program with one public school being pretty much like the other, with minor differences in areas such as culture and economic status. It's like McDonald's- you can eat the same burger in Nebraska as you can in Arizona. So you'll see the same basic classroom, methods, and curriculum in a little rural school in Maine as you will in San Francisco.

Homeschooling being a parent-guided educational option is as individual as the families that choose it, and so cannot be measured and compared in the same way. It's just the way it is, and I wish that people would get over it already, because then maybe some progress could be made to change the things that are wrong with the system. But I won't be holding my breath, because no parent wants to believe that their child's school has issues. It's always someone else's school in some bad-nasty place like NYC or Pothole, Kansas.

As for the "You don't have kids in PS so you don't know what it's like"- puhlease. Like we all sprang from our mother's wombs as full-blown homeschoolers complete with blue jean jumpers and a stack of LifePacs. The reason many families homeschool is because they've found the current educational system cannot and will not meet the needs of individual children. It's after they make the choice that they discover the other benefits of home education- the wonderful family bonding that can occur, the freedom to pursue interests, address specific weaknesses and encourage strengths... I spent years in the PS system, then in a private school- which was a public school that had a cross over the door and a dress code- whoopee. I've also taught in public and private schools, and remain active in many ways with the schools in my community. Seen both sides, like most other HS parents.

Which is why I counsel parents who want to send their kids to PS to go into it with their eyes wide open and for the love of Mike- get involved in their child's school- I'll bet a dinner at Olive Garden and a $1000 shopping spree that the majority of parents who have made this complaint don't know much about their own local school- how many of them have had conversations with the principal about the school's philosophy and methodology? How many know their child's teacher personally? How many have perused their kids' curriculum and reading lists? How many have volunteered in their child's school, or stopped by during recess and watched their kids interact with the other children? How many have spent time getting to know their child's friends?

I've asked those questions of PS parents again and again, and the typical responses are that they don't have time or that it never occurred to them to do so, because their parents never really were involved in their education. It takes a real paradigm shift to see education as more than just a transmission of facts... read-the-chapter-answer-the-questions-draw-a-picture-write-a-report.... homeschooling has come along with a sledgehammer and put a big ol' crack in the mind-numbing educational methods used today, and you know what- PS parents will benefit from it, whether they like it or not.



bzirk -> RE: I think I know (7/2/2009 12:24:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cynthia

This comes down to the logical fallacy that you have to experience something to know whether or not it is good. This is very certainly not true.

I know that I’d love to take an Alaskan cruise, even thought I’ve never been to Alaska or taken a cruise. I know I don’t want to go to Iran, but I’ve never been there and have probably never even spoken to someone from Iran.

Experience is good, but it is certainly not necessary for making a good decision about whether or not one wants to do something.


Excellent point! So I don't have to experience a train wreck to know it's harmful. [8D]



MrsDC -> RE: I think I know (7/6/2009 11:33:06 AM)

Immediately the comparison between the public education system and a train wreck comes to mind. [;)]

Anyway, what do I think? Well, aside from the sentiments already expressed, I feel sad.

So many times a mom has started a conversation with me and asked about our reasons for homeschooling, our philosophy, our gameplan, etc., and then abruptly ended the conversation with, "Well, our district is one of the best." or something similar. It happens so often, it seems like a pre-programmed response. Kind of like a "default setting". When the conviction gets too strong, default back to how good the school district is where you live, how well the students did on their CATs last year, what great extracurricular opportunities kids have in public school and, of course, how well-socialized their kids are.

To say that I, as a homeschool mom, don't have any idea what I'm talking about because my children aren't in public school is, in my opinion, another default response. Instead of getting defensive, though, I'm trying to remember to pray for these friends even more fervently. If they weren't lashing back (sometimes it really does feel like lashing, too) that would mean that their conscience was seared, and they honestly didn't see any benefit in educating their kids at home.

The enemy has put so many obstacles in the way of parents who are honestly trying to do the best they can for their kids. We homeschoolers are not above the attacks of the enemy; we're just fighting him on a different front. Ideally, public school parents and home school parents should work together, because the goal is not to prove which educational method produces the best average test scores, but rather to raise our kids to honor and worship God above all else and to have a future generation which will be able to run this county and their own lives with integrity when we parents are gone.

Well, that's my 2 centavos.
-- Rebecca



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