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RE: Conceiving one child to save another - 6/25/2009 7:02:46 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
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quote:
helping your parents parent is not an ethical imperative,
Some parents think it is.
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RE: Conceiving one child to save another - 6/25/2009 7:09:54 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
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quote:
If I had a sibling that needed an organ transplant (and I did) and I was still a minor (I wasn't) and later found out that I may have been able to save his life but no one tried and then he died I would feel terrible. When my brother first went into kidney failure they tested all of us. None of us were a very good match and his situation wasn't dire yet so they did not do it because the dr did not want to "waste" a good kidney that wasn't a very good match (my other brother, my parents, and I were all like 50%) and have it fail anyway. However, if one of us had been a closer match they would have done it and I can't imagine having not done everything I could to save him.
But that situation is more like the situation of my young friend (who was informed, and did do what she could)....that's not a case of a child being CONCEIVED FOR THAT PURPOSE.
quote:
I liken it to this...when a young child gets pregnant by rape/incest do we allow her to have an abortion to save her the pain just to save the baby's life or do we expect her to carry to term if at all possible even though it is painful and difficult.
I think that's totally different. That's a case of a sad situation where you try to do the best for 2 lives...
That's not the same as conceiving one child for the benefit of another child.
_____________________________
Wizard's rule #1 .People can be stupid and willfully deceived (that's from the book, not the show)..slightly edited for CW
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RE: Conceiving one child to save another - 6/25/2009 7:16:40 PM
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bolt.
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quote:
you are justifying cruelty to one child for the sake of another child.
I find there to be a difference between pain and cruelty. Yes, these proceedures are painful, but they are not >> cruel <<.
If your minivan was submurged in water, one child was underwater and unreachable because the other child was trapped by their foot in the way -- what to do? Is it 'cruel' to risk breaking the foot of the one (to yank them out of the way) in order to reach the submerged one and bring them to air. Painful, yes, but not cruel -- and completely justified, morally, buy the situation of threat-to-life. (In general, of course it is both immoral and cruel to break a child's foot.)
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RE: Conceiving one child to save another - 6/25/2009 7:22:40 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
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But the van scenario still isn't what the op is about. Those two children ALREADY EXIST (hypothetically)...the op is talking about CONCEIVING a child in the first place for a certain purpose...totally DIFFERENT!
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Wizard's rule #1 .People can be stupid and willfully deceived (that's from the book, not the show)..slightly edited for CW
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RE: Conceiving one child to save another - 6/25/2009 7:35:53 PM
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bolt.
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Sorry, since people were mostly addressing the latter-half of my post, as to how I would treat my medically-motivated baby and why I thought it ethical to 'use' them without consent, I thought I'd deal with that end of things.
If it's just about the conception decision, that's a lot clearer. I don't see any reason that a medical motivation would be any kind of unworthy motive, much less would I consider it an unethical motive.
I consider both the parent's decision to conceive when they otherwise would probably not have, and the subsequent non-consensual medical procedures done on the baby/child to be completely moral choices.
_____________________________
Are you having trouble getting your daily dose of the life changing Word of God?
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>>audio link<<
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RE: Conceiving one child to save another - 6/25/2009 7:55:02 PM
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zoebob
Posts: 7962
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quote:
ORIGINAL: OneOfHisJewels
quote:
If I had a sibling that needed an organ transplant (and I did) and I was still a minor (I wasn't) and later found out that I may have been able to save his life but no one tried and then he died I would feel terrible. When my brother first went into kidney failure they tested all of us. None of us were a very good match and his situation wasn't dire yet so they did not do it because the dr did not want to "waste" a good kidney that wasn't a very good match (my other brother, my parents, and I were all like 50%) and have it fail anyway. However, if one of us had been a closer match they would have done it and I can't imagine having not done everything I could to save him.
But that situation is more like the situation of my young friend (who was informed, and did do what she could)....that's not a case of a child being CONCEIVED FOR THAT PURPOSE.
quote:
I liken it to this...when a young child gets pregnant by rape/incest do we allow her to have an abortion to save her the pain just to save the baby's life or do we expect her to carry to term if at all possible even though it is painful and difficult.
I think that's totally different. That's a case of a sad situation where you try to do the best for 2 lives...
That's not the same as conceiving one child for the benefit of another child.
Sorry, I was addressing people who would not even make an existing child donate to a sibling. I was not addressing the new child issue. I realize I wasn't clear...
BTW: I didn't really edit your post I hit edit instead of quote.
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RE: Conceiving one child to save another - 6/26/2009 8:25:35 AM
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W.O.F.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: laura...
quote:
bone marrow is of course much more tricky and I don't think it would be able to be cloned disease free...but then I am not a bio-engineer either....
Bone marrow is produced by the body. It isn't an organ. I know that bone marrow can be harvested from a leukemia patient while they are in remission, "washed" and then returned to the patient if/when needed.
I realize that bone marrow is not an organ...but I meant it was more tricky to perhaps clone. *sigh*
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Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh no, she's awake."
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RE: Conceiving one child to save another - 6/26/2009 8:37:22 AM
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W.O.F.
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I think in that for the most part, most of us would consider an already born child as a potential donor....depending on age, etc.
I have to be honest...I would more likely use a young toddler than a 7 to 8 year old simply because of the memory factor. Our brains block out traumatic things like pain...and being a bone marrow or organ donor is VERY painful....
would I consider using a 7 or 8 old? yes...with a lot of discussion and prayer and counsel and making sure the child understood as much as possible what was going on...and taking into account any real terror or fear on either child's part of the procedures.
Would I choose to DELIBERATELY conceive a child to become that donor? I really don't know.
Having had a son who was chronically ill (we are talking temp of 104 on average every two weeks for 3 years!) without a known cause and all the tests, etc he had to go through and the fear of what it might be, etc.....I can't say I would. At that point in time, having another baby was the last thing on our minds...and we probably inadvertently tried to NOT have another child. Why? because it was so hard to make sure his older sister was being taken care of, on top of meeting his needs and taking care of him while he was so gravely ill. Having another baby even by "accident" would have made it that much more difficult...but to have on on purpose to save him?
And then there is the recipient child to consider......I believe you have to take their feelings into the deal as well. HOW would they feel about it?
I have a brother who has a kidney functioning at 40% and the other one, when it functions, is at 25%. He refuses to let any of us be tested to be a kidney donor for him if he needs one. Why? because he does not want to put any of us through that (although if he ever gets bad enough....we may all get tested anyway.....even if he should refuse the donation).....granted...he is an adult....but even a child might feel the same way.
_____________________________
Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh no, she's awake."
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RE: Conceiving one child to save another - 6/26/2009 9:32:15 AM
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zoebob
Posts: 7962
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From: land of limbo
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quote:
I have a brother who has a kidney functioning at 40% and the other one, when it functions, is at 25%. He refuses to let any of us be tested to be a kidney donor for him if he needs one. Why? because he does not want to put any of us through that (although if he ever gets bad enough....we may all get tested anyway.....even if he should refuse the donation).....granted...he is an adult....but even a child might feel the same way.
My brother had 2 in 100% failure. I can't help wonder if one of us had been a donor and he had the cancer still happen if he would have had different doctors who didn't mess things up causing heart problems because his transplant would have taken place several years earlier.
Fortunately dialysis worked for him but it is very very difficult and much more difficult than being a donor.
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L-R: DD1, Ellies DS2, DD2, Ellies DS1
L-R: Ellies DD1, Ellies DD2, DS, Ellies DS3
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RE: Conceiving one child to save another - 6/26/2009 4:33:15 PM
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W.O.F.
Posts: 1653
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zoebob
quote:
I have a brother who has a kidney functioning at 40% and the other one, when it functions, is at 25%. He refuses to let any of us be tested to be a kidney donor for him if he needs one. Why? because he does not want to put any of us through that (although if he ever gets bad enough....we may all get tested anyway.....even if he should refuse the donation).....granted...he is an adult....but even a child might feel the same way.
My brother had 2 in 100% failure. I can't help wonder if one of us had been a donor and he had the cancer still happen if he would have had different doctors who didn't mess things up causing heart problems because his transplant would have taken place several years earlier.
Fortunately dialysis worked for him but it is very very difficult and much more difficult than being a donor.
And that is why I hope eventually he will consider letting one of us be a donor for him if we are matches.
He and I have the same blood type....and I am not sure about our other siblings...but of course it needs to be a good tissue match as well.
He might not want my kidneys...they work great...but tend to be a rock garden as well (of course that is in MY body with my blood stream....)....
He has had to do dialysis a couple of times due to complete kidney failure...but the kidneys always (so far) seem to come back to function-ability after taking what his doctor calls a "vacation" for a month or so. It was the worst after he had his aneurysm this past year.....but it turned out some of that was due to his being allergic to the dye they used to diagnose the aneurysm.
That said...I can't see having my young children tested to be a donor for my brother...I would consider my teens though if they were willing.
_____________________________
Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh no, she's awake."
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