If Cap & Trade passes, how will it impact your budget? (Full Version)

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Mollymouser -> If Cap & Trade passes, how will it impact your budget? (6/24/2009 1:18:23 PM)

Wall Street Journal Article LINK

The Congressional Budget Office estimates that the price hikes from a 15% cut in emissions would cost the average household in the bottom-income quintile about 3.3% of its after-tax income every year. That's about $680, not including the costs of reduced employment and output. The three middle quintiles would see their paychecks cut between $880 and $1,500, or 2.9% to 2.7% of income. The rich would pay 1.7%.

How will losing 1.7% - 3.3% of your after-tax income impact your budget?



GroupW -> RE: If Cap & Trade passes, how will it impact your budget? (6/24/2009 1:41:12 PM)

I think the article is from march. Latest CBO estimates seem to imply a much lower number. Roughly $175/HH. $245 in the upper qintile and a savings of $40 in the lower.



Mollymouser -> RE: If Cap & Trade passes, how will it impact your budget? (6/24/2009 2:02:52 PM)

Cool beans. Do you have a link to the most recent CBO estimates?



GroupW -> RE: If Cap & Trade passes, how will it impact your budget? (6/24/2009 2:23:09 PM)

Try http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/102xx/doc10262/hr2454.pdf

Haven't read it, just found a summary on MSNBC



Mollymouser -> RE: If Cap & Trade passes, how will it impact your budget? (6/24/2009 2:25:16 PM)

Thanks ... I tried Googling and "Bing"ing it -- but kept pulling up the WEIRDEST stuff.

Gosh, that reads like the phone book! [:'(]



GroupW -> RE: If Cap & Trade passes, how will it impact your budget? (6/24/2009 6:01:57 PM)

Yeah, pretty much anything from the CBO is as interesting as watching boogers dry. If you have questions, I'm usually pretty fast getting through that kind of stuff and can pull out some snippets for you.



Mollymouser -> RE: If Cap & Trade passes, how will it impact your budget? (6/25/2009 12:52:33 AM)

Did you see this ARTICLE that says that the CBO has grossly underestimated the costs associated with Cap and Trade?

"The CBO analysis of Waxman-Markey fails to take into account all the adverse effects that will ripple through the U.S. economy if cap and trade becomes law."



GroupW -> RE: If Cap & Trade passes, how will it impact your budget? (6/25/2009 10:14:09 AM)

I did. Not sure what I think of their article yet though. I need to take a closer look at it before I make any judgements. There are some things there that just don't pass a sniff test, but I can't put my finger on why yet.

Edit: Figured out what bothers me as soon as I wrote that. The $1800 figure is right around 3% or so of household income. We spend about 6% of household income on energy in total. It doesn't sound right that the amount of money they're talking about should result in a 50% increase in energy costs.

I won't say it's wrong, since I'm no expert, but it sure sounds improbable on the face of it.

As a died in the wool skeptic, I generally treat things from the very conservative Heritage Foundation with a grain of salt - much like I would anything from the more liberal think tanks as well. They're both inclined to apply a fair amount of spin when they pitch.



GroupW -> RE: If Cap & Trade passes, how will it impact your budget? (6/25/2009 11:09:51 AM)

Harvie-
See if you can help me figure this out. Not sure the Heritage Foundation is referring to the CBO report linked above. It looks like the footnotes referred to in the Heritage report don't match up to the footnotes in the linked PDF file. Specifically "the footnote 3 on page 4" that Heritage refers to doesn't appear on page 4 - it appears on page 14 and doesn't appear to have anything to do with a GDP adjustment.

I'm confused and wondering if we're talking apples and oranges here.

BT



Mollymouser -> RE: If Cap & Trade passes, how will it impact your budget? (6/26/2009 2:38:23 AM)

I see the discrepancies and can't reconcile them, either.

The bill is 1,000+ pages ... let's hope Congress reads and understands it before voting on it.



GroupW -> RE: If Cap & Trade passes, how will it impact your budget? (6/26/2009 5:37:43 PM)

Apparently, there's some stuff on derivatives in the bill that I should be worried about.

Hoping I don't have to read 1,000 pages of lawyers talking to other lawyers.



Mollymouser -> RE: If Cap & Trade passes, how will it impact your budget? (6/27/2009 1:18:57 AM)

Nope, it's 1200 pages plus 300 pages of amendments.

(grin)

[sm=funny.gif]



GroupW -> RE: If Cap & Trade passes, how will it impact your budget? (6/30/2009 3:51:12 PM)

Well thanks. I feel so much better now.[sm=aside.gif]



Mollymouser -> RE: If Cap & Trade passes, how will it impact your budget? (7/1/2009 1:52:09 AM)

[sm=dance.gif][sm=flagamerican.jpg][sm=dance.gif]



LizzieJ. -> RE: If Cap & Trade passes, how will it impact your budget? (7/1/2009 7:37:56 AM)

quote:

Wall Street Journal Article LINK

The Congressional Budget Office estimates that the price hikes from a 15% cut in emissions would cost the average household in the bottom-income quintile about 3.3% of its after-tax income every year. That's about $680, not including the costs of reduced employment and output. The three middle quintiles would see their paychecks cut between $880 and $1,500, or 2.9% to 2.7% of income. The rich would pay 1.7%.

How will losing 1.7% - 3.3% of your after-tax income impact your budget?




My husband figured "before the amendment" was added, we needed to increase our income by $5,000.00 per year before taxes if we wanted to keep our current lifestyle.
This was one of the reasons he decided to begin to deal with options.

We had discussed putting our home on the market and trying to find a smaller place to live that would also cut down on his commute time. With the amendment that option may be off the table. It may cost us too much money up front in this down market to bring the house up to whatever the new codes may be.

I don't exactly have a budget. I am trying to cut our expenses. We have put a stop to eating out and forget about visiting our relatives this year. We have also tried to keep the house a little warmer this summer, run the fans more and wear less cloths. We have also had to cut out extra giving to our church and his Auntie.

Our lifestyle has already been impacted and this bill has not even passed the Senate.



looktotheeast -> RE: If Cap & Trade passes, how will it impact your budget? (7/4/2009 8:44:02 AM)

Cap and trade is about taking more money from the people - period. Please check this out on youtube:

The Great Global Warming Swindle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMA6sszChwQ&feature=related



tomfeen -> RE: If Cap & Trade passes, how will it impact your budget? (7/5/2009 5:52:47 PM)

It was reported on Fox that one provision of the bill will require you to "retrofit" your home to Federal "Green" standards before you will be allowed to sell. When the Assistant Press Secretary was asked if this was the right time to put curbs on the housing market....he said "you must think long term"......meaning who cares how it impacts people today.

There was also no particulars on what "Green" standards are. However, the APS pointed out that "this is a jobs bill" so if it costs you money retrofitting it is okay since you are keeping your neighborhood contractor working.

THEN, I heard that it was possible that fireplace fires would be outlawed by the pollution standards.

Maybe, retrofitting will also include removing your fireplace and wood stove before you can sell. Well, that will keep those contractors busy too.



Mollymouser -> RE: If Cap & Trade passes, how will it impact your budget? (7/6/2009 12:37:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tomfeen

THEN, I heard that it was possible that fireplace fires would be outlawed by the pollution standards. Maybe, retrofitting will also include removing your fireplace and wood stove before you can sell. Well, that will keep those contractors busy too.


I'm in California and there are already days and times when fireplace fires are illegal here. (They are called "No Burn Days") And the current law for us is that when we sell our home, we have to render our wood-burning stove "inoperable" so that the buyer couldn't use it. We also have to retrofit/secure water heaters before our homes can be sold, AND we have to certify that there is no lead-based paint in the house.



blessedinnyc -> RE: If Cap & Trade passes, how will it impact your budget? (7/6/2009 11:48:33 AM)

If global warming happens:

1.) I will have to stop taking the subways to work, because they will be flooded. The ferry costs $14/day vs. $7 for the subway. $140/month.
2.) Unless I plan on swimming from 39th street and showing up to work wet, I will need to take a taxi to work. Add in another $10/day. $200/month.
3.) I will need a boat, and I'm sure parking (mooring) will not be cheap $3000+ $200/month for parking.

All told, not dealing with global warming will cost me $550/month.



19ramman85 -> RE: If Cap & Trade passes, how will it impact your budget? (7/6/2009 1:16:05 PM)

It'll be just terrible for us in the lower class income level.

We can't pay our bills like we want, nor afford much of anything else - plus to boot - according to their precious lil ways - we make too much for any type of Gov't help, save for food stamps (not much) and some very, very basic medicaid.

-charles



Mollymouser -> RE: If Cap & Trade passes, how will it impact your budget? (7/6/2009 7:52:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc

If global warming happens:

1.) I will have to stop taking the subways to work, because they will be flooded. The ferry costs $14/day vs. $7 for the subway. $140/month.
2.) Unless I plan on swimming from 39th street and showing up to work wet, I will need to take a taxi to work. Add in another $10/day. $200/month.
3.) I will need a boat, and I'm sure parking (mooring) will not be cheap $3000+ $200/month for parking.

All told, not dealing with global warming will cost me $550/month.


[:D][:D][:D]



GroupW -> RE: If Cap & Trade passes, how will it impact your budget? (7/7/2009 3:23:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Harvie

quote:

ORIGINAL: tomfeen

THEN, I heard that it was possible that fireplace fires would be outlawed by the pollution standards. Maybe, retrofitting will also include removing your fireplace and wood stove before you can sell. Well, that will keep those contractors busy too.


I'm in California and there are already days and times when fireplace fires are illegal here. (They are called "No Burn Days") And the current law for us is that when we sell our home, we have to render our wood-burning stove "inoperable" so that the buyer couldn't use it. We also have to retrofit/secure water heaters before our homes can be sold, AND we have to certify that there is no lead-based paint in the house.


Places in Colorado are pretty similar, particularly near the foothills.



iluvatar -> RE: If Cap & Trade passes, how will it impact your budget? (7/8/2009 5:32:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc

If global warming happens:

1.) I will have to stop taking the subways to work, because they will be flooded. The ferry costs $14/day vs. $7 for the subway. $140/month.
2.) Unless I plan on swimming from 39th street and showing up to work wet, I will need to take a taxi to work. Add in another $10/day. $200/month.
3.) I will need a boat, and I'm sure parking (mooring) will not be cheap $3000+ $200/month for parking.

All told, not dealing with global warming will cost me $550/month.


Parts of Manhattan will be inundated, pushing more people to Jersey, which will make your rent higher.

-Dan.



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