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ORIGINAL: IwillseekHim

Personally, I would have took the opportunity to speak. But with that being said, I do not know this person and do not know how far in her walk she is with the Lord. I have been a christian for 30 years, much more mature in my daily living for God. She may not be. It would be nice had she of spoken, but it doesnt make her less of a christian. She may be shy and not bold or secure in speaking to others yet.Some christians are new christians and may be alittle scared to speak up. She may have felt you were doing a fine job and could have been praying about it, I don't know her heart and therefore can not say she was wrong,so to speak, in not saying anything. Only God knows her heart and why she did not or was unable to speak up for Him.Don't be disappointed in her, she just may not be mature as you as a christian. Just my thoughts...

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I felt angry when she stated that the 'Bible needs to adapt to the changes in society' and that it is 'out of date' and prayed with every word I spoke to her after she said this. I guess Christians should not be surprised when non Christians say such things as moral decline is on the increase (even amongst Christians) but it hurt.

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Also, another Christian in the office kept quiet and did not defend the fact that we cannot adapt God's Word to suit societies ways. She did not seem bothered that God's standards were being spoken lightly of in front of the office and I find this upsetting and unsettling.

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What would you have said?

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Would you sit by and say nothing if someone said something contrary to God's Word about His Word? Do you take advantage of opportunities which present themselves? What is your take on such?

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Afterwards when I spoke to my Christian colleague, she said she agreed with me but she never said she was praying during the conversation or offered any support.

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ORIGINAL: GrannyofSix

I do not go around preaching voluntarily or giving out judgments in the work place (or anywhere else for that matter), but if a person brings it up first, then I definitely defend the Bible. I feel that I have to, or it gives the impression that I am agreeing with them. I can't allow that impression to be given.

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I am not popular during these conversations. Many, many times I have been the ONLY person who claims to be a Christian that speaks up, but I do anyway.

I am not ashamed of Jesus or the Gospel, and I don't want God to be ashamed of me.

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The views of Christians are not popular. The Bible is not popular. People want to live and do as they please and dare to criticize the Holy Word of God. We must share the Word with sinners and those that want to argue that the Bible is "out of date", "not reasonable for this day and time", or "not interpreted correctly". Those are just excuses given to them by Satan to justify their actions (sins) and sooth over their conscience.

Of course, your words should be given with Love, Gentleness and in a non-judgmental way. If at all possible, always quote scriptures and not say things as though it is your opinion. Even then, they will argue with you, especially if you use the KJV (because they like to jump on this version as "old" and using words that can not be understood).

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I have not gone to other co-workers who claimed to be saved to ask them why they didn't speak up and/or support me in the things that I said. That is between them and God and I feel would only put them on the defensive.

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Sometimes it gets lonely out there, but I believe that Jesus and God are proud of those who speak up and defend His Word.

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ORIGINAL: deermousie

Sometimes it's a good thing to talk privately to a person rather than chance making a scene publically. There is a time for quiet conversation as well as dramatic clashes. Especially at work.

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ORIGINAL: mvic

I disagree with the two posters immediately above this post.

Little 1 was correct to speak out.

Whilst it is possible that the originator of the discussion was yanking her chain to see how she would react; by saying nothing or avoiding the subject altogether Little 1 would have played right into their hand and portrayed (wrongly as it happens) a lack of conviction. That's how her silence would have been interpreted even though it's the wrong interpretation.

Furthermore, silence may well have crushed and extinguished any small flame of Faith within other believers present. They would have felt that if a Spiritually higher Christian remained silent then the argument was not worth defending.

Little 1 did right to speak out and to stand for her Faith. I would have done the same.

There is no need for debate. Just state the facts clearly and leave it at that. If the un-believer does not want to listen that's their choice. But at least the believers present would have listened and taken courage for when a similar situation arises and Little 1 is not there to set an example.

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ORIGINAL: Little_1

Today there was a conversation at work about sex before marriage. It mainly covered teenage sex and one non Christian stated that she gets upset when people say that people should not do this or that (meaning sex) and live by a set of rules laid down by their church or parents. She based her argument on children getting pregnant and being afraid to tell their 'religious' parents. She also thought the Bible needs to be more up-to-date with matters of sex as it is 'out of date' (her words).

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I have to admit, I felt angry when she stated that the 'Bible needs to adapt to the changes in society' and that it is 'out of date' and prayed with every word I spoke to her after she said this. I guess Christians should not be surprised when non Christians say such things as moral decline is on the increase (even amongst Christians) but it hurt. Also, another Christian in the office kept quiet and did not defend the fact that we cannot adapt God's Word to suit societies ways. She did not seem bothered that God's standards were being spoken lightly of in front of the office and I find this upsetting and unsettling.

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I don't know which upset me the most - the fact that someone slighted the Bible (albeit in ignorance) or that the other Christian in the office sat silent! I believe the latter. Perhaps it was wise for my Christian colleague to allow just one Christian to speak this time but it is not the first time she has sat silent and allowed others to mock God's standards... and I have waited and she has said nothing!

Afterwards when I spoke to my Christian colleague, she said she agreed with me but she never said she was praying during the conversation or offered any support.

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Perhaps some will say that we have to live our lives before non Christians (which I am well aware) but I sometimes believe Christians use this line as an excuse not to share their faith in words... because they just never seem to do so (no matter what opportunities present themselves). God's Word says that "faith comes by hearing the Word of God" after all - not just by living our lives before others... I personally believe both count, i.e. sharing God's Word (when the opportunities present themselves) and living our lives right before others...

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Would you sit by and say nothing if someone said something contrary to God's Word about His Word? Do you take advantage of opportunities which present themselves? What is your take on such?

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ORIGINAL: Leveled

...I expect unbelievers to live in opposition to God and His word. So when they do, I do not engage in an argument. That accomplishes nothing.

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Issues are often the devil's playground and cause more unnecessary alienation between people...

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... Jesus used sin to build bridges to people NOT to alienate.

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I recently got into a discussion with an unbelieving friend about marriage. She is divorced. And she is involved with a family (who claim to be Christians) but are involved in a very ugly separation. There are ten children involved!

My friend knows what God says about divorce/marriage. She calls them hypocrites. I didn't argue. In fact, I agreed. I used this an an opportunity to share Christ with my friend. I used it as a bridge building experience rather than getting out the explosives and doing demolition . I say that because this approach has not come 'naturally' for me but supernaturally.

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Most people respond defensively when confronted. Just look here on the forum and you'll see it. Yes, Jesus spoke the woes to the Pharisees and sometimes we have to as well. But that is usually to the religious ones in our midst. . . not to the worldly ones who claim nothing of Jesus.

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Those are my thoughts, L1. I hope they are helpful to you.

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People will think what they want... I don't really get angry because that will not make them change their minds...

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I usually don't do anything... I'm generally not good at defending religion, God, or anything so I just don't...

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ORIGINAL: IwillseekHim

Personally, I would have took the opportunity to speak. But with that being said, I do not know this person and do not know how far in her walk she is with the Lord. I have been a christian for 30 years, much more mature in my daily living for God. She may not be. It would be nice had she of spoken, but it doesnt make her less of a christian. She may be shy and not bold or secure in speaking to others yet.Some christians are new christians and may be alittle scared to speak up. She may have felt you were doing a fine job and could have been praying about it, I don't know her heart and therefore can not say she was wrong,so to speak, in not saying anything. Only God knows her heart and why she did not or was unable to speak up for Him.Don't be disappointed in her, she just may not be mature as you as a christian. Just my thoughts...

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ORIGINAL: Little_1

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People will think what they want... I don't really get angry because that will not make them change their minds...

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Wise if this is 'non righteous' anger. There are 2 types of anger - non righteous anger and righteous anger. I believe we need to keep a check on righteous anger also because it can so easily turn into unrighteous anger if we don't focus on the Lord.

true

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I usually don't do anything... I'm generally not good at defending religion, God, or anything so I just don't...

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God's Word teaches us...

But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, (1 Peter 3:15).

...not everyone wants to be a missionary, and not everyone feels called to be one either.
sometimes one on one i can have a conversation about God... but that is rare. I never debate though...
anyways, i do not feel convicted to be a missionary...
however, if asked what i believe- i do tell people.

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Pray and ask the Lord to give you opportunities (wisdom) and ask Him to help you obey... I too find it difficult to speak to others and sometimes I actually shake and come out in a rash but the Lord then takes over and gives His Holy Spirit boldness at such times. You may still shake (and turn pink) but you know He is helping you obey... weakness is the perfect place for His strength to be displayed... God also takes the foolish things in the eyes of the world to confound those who are wise in their own estimation...

I do not wish to ask God to give me opportunities... i do not want them

_____________________________

[img]http://dn.daisypath.com/5pVUm4/.png[/img]

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ORIGINAL: Little_1

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ORIGINAL: Leveled

...I expect unbelievers to live in opposition to God and His word. So when they do, I do not engage in an argument. That accomplishes nothing.

There was no arguement. Noone was arguing. We were talking 'work related' info. Our jobs actually involve such issues as under age sex to be discussed because we work for an agency which involves protecting children. It was also the non believer who brought up the Bible in the first instance.

I wasn't assuming you were involved in an argument. I was just speaking to the topic in a general way---not to your specific situation.

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Issues are often the devil's playground and cause more unnecessary alienation between people...

I agree and this is why we need wisdom to know when to speak and to know when to remain silent.

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... Jesus used sin to build bridges to people NOT to alienate.

Could you explain a little clearer as this is a bit ambiguous. I would appreciate this and hopefully I'll understand what you mean better without jumping to the wrong conclusion.

Jesus attracted sinners to Himself---scripture speaks of His hanging out with sinners. He didn't speak words of condemnation but words of love and they were convicted.

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I recently got into a discussion with an unbelieving friend about marriage. She is divorced. And she is involved with a family (who claim to be Christians) but are involved in a very ugly separation. There are ten children involved!

My friend knows what God says about divorce/marriage. She calls them hypocrites. I didn't argue. In fact, I agreed. I used this an an opportunity to share Christ with my friend. I used it as a bridge building experience rather than getting out the explosives and doing demolition . I say that because this approach has not come 'naturally' for me but supernaturally.

This was a good opportunity to share God's Word and you used it well.

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Most people respond defensively when confronted. Just look here on the forum and you'll see it. Yes, Jesus spoke the woes to the Pharisees and sometimes we have to as well. But that is usually to the religious ones in our midst. . . not to the worldly ones who claim nothing of Jesus.

Am I right in thinking that you believe I should have said nothing to her because she is a non believer and Christians should only defend the Word of God when speaking to religious Pharisees?

No, that is certainly not what I'm saying. Not being there, it's not for me to say whether you should have engaged in conversation with her. But I don't think we have to defend God's word---especially to an unbeliever. That is futile. As are most conversations with Pharisees.


Have I understood this correctly? I don't want to assume anything so if I'm wrong please explain. P.S. If this is correct, I respect we have differing opinions.

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Those are my thoughts, L1. I hope they are helpful to you.