Sex outside of marriage (Full Version)

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Little_1 -> Sex outside of marriage (6/25/2009 3:39:38 PM)

Today there was a conversation at work about sex before marriage. It mainly covered teenage sex and one non Christian stated that she gets upset when people say that people should not do this or that (meaning sex) and live by a set of rules laid down by their church or parents. She based her argument on children getting pregnant and being afraid to tell their 'religious' parents. She also thought the Bible needs to be more up-to-date with matters of sex as it is 'out of date' (her words).

I have to admit, I felt angry when she stated that the 'Bible needs to adapt to the changes in society' and that it is 'out of date' and prayed with every word I spoke to her after she said this. I guess Christians should not be surprised when non Christians say such things as moral decline is on the increase (even amongst Christians) but it hurt. Also, another Christian in the office kept quiet and did not defend the fact that we cannot adapt God's Word to suit societies ways. She did not seem bothered that God's standards were being spoken lightly of in front of the office and I find this upsetting and unsettling.

I don't know which upset me the most - the fact that someone slighted the Bible (albeit in ignorance) or that the other Christian in the office sat silent! I believe the latter. Perhaps it was wise for my Christian colleague to allow just one Christian to speak this time but it is not the first time she has sat silent and allowed others to mock God's standards... and I have waited and she has said nothing!

Afterwards when I spoke to my Christian colleague, she said she agreed with me but she never said she was praying during the conversation or offered any support.

Perhaps some will say that we have to live our lives before non Christians (which I am well aware) but I sometimes believe Christians use this line as an excuse not to share their faith in words... because they just never seem to do so (no matter what opportunities present themselves). God's Word says that "faith comes by hearing the Word of God" after all - not just by living our lives before others... I personally believe both count, i.e. sharing God's Word (when the opportunities present themselves) and living our lives right before others...

Would you sit by and say nothing if someone said something contrary to God's Word about His Word? Do you take advantage of opportunities which present themselves? What is your take on such?



rcjames -> RE: Sex outside of marriage (6/25/2009 3:44:42 PM)

Just the typical secular humanistic relative morality that is espoused by those poor misquided folks.

Thanks
RC



IwillseekHim -> RE: Sex outside of marriage (6/25/2009 3:53:08 PM)

Personally, I would have took the opportunity to speak. But with that being said, I do not know this person and do not know how far in her walk she is with the Lord. I have been a christian for 30 years, much more mature in my daily living for God. She may not be. It would be nice had she of spoken, but it doesnt make her less of a christian. She may be shy and not bold or secure in speaking to others yet.Some christians are new christians and may be alittle scared to speak up. She may have felt you were doing a fine job and could have been praying about it, I don't know her heart and therefore can not say she was wrong,so to speak, in not saying anything. Only God knows her heart and why she did not or was unable to speak up for Him.Don't be disappointed in her, she just may not be mature as you as a christian. Just my thoughts...



rcjames -> RE: Sex outside of marriage (6/25/2009 3:58:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: IwillseekHim

Personally, I would have took the opportunity to speak. But with that being said, I do not know this person and do not know how far in her walk she is with the Lord. I have been a christian for 30 years, much more mature in my daily living for God. She may not be. It would be nice had she of spoken, but it doesnt make her less of a christian. She may be shy and not bold or secure in speaking to others yet.Some christians are new christians and may be alittle scared to speak up. She may have felt you were doing a fine job and could have been praying about it, I don't know her heart and therefore can not say she was wrong,so to speak, in not saying anything. Only God knows her heart and why she did not or was unable to speak up for Him.Don't be disappointed in her, she just may not be mature as you as a christian. Just my thoughts...


What would you have said?

Thanks
RC



mvic -> RE: Sex outside of marriage (6/25/2009 4:32:54 PM)

quote:

I felt angry when she stated that the 'Bible needs to adapt to the changes in society' and that it is 'out of date' and prayed with every word I spoke to her after she said this. I guess Christians should not be surprised when non Christians say such things as moral decline is on the increase (even amongst Christians) but it hurt.


The Bible does not need to adapt and it is never out of date. However, sadly, Christianity has over the years been watered down and our religious leaders have a lot to answer for in this respect. So, non-Christians, quite wrongly expect Christianity to adapt to their every whim in order to cater to modern lifestyles and fashions.

Church leaders have allowed this to happen by "modernising" the Bible message in order to ensure they do not have empty pews in church.

When God gave us 10 commandments He gave us just that: instructions and rules to obey. He did not give us 10 suggestions to debate in committees and to adapt to suit our selfish needs.

quote:

Also, another Christian in the office kept quiet and did not defend the fact that we cannot adapt God's Word to suit societies ways. She did not seem bothered that God's standards were being spoken lightly of in front of the office and I find this upsetting and unsettling.


She was probably just as confused by the church's prevarications and ditherings over the years when it comes to delivering a crystal clear message about Christianity and the Bible.

I understand your being upset about the situation and I'm certain you'll forgive her and pray for her.

RCJames:

quote:

What would you have said?


I would have said that the Bible is never wrong and needs not to adapt to suit people's selfish needs; but people should adapt in order to conform with the Bible's teachings.



GrannyofSix -> RE: Sex outside of marriage (6/25/2009 5:09:07 PM)

I do not go around preaching voluntarily or giving out judgments in the work place (or anywhere else for that matter), but if a person brings it up first, then I definitely defend the Bible. I feel that I have to, or it gives the impression that I am agreeing with them. I can't allow that impression to be given.

I am not popular during these conversations. Many, many times I have been the ONLY person who claims to be a Christian that speaks up, but I do anyway.

I am not ashamed of Jesus or the Gospel, and I don't want God to be ashamed of me.

The views of Christians are not popular. The Bible is not popular. People want to live and do as they please and dare to criticize the Holy Word of God. We must share the Word with sinners and those that want to argue that the Bible is "out of date", "not reasonable for this day and time", or "not interpreted correctly". Those are just excuses given to them by Satan to justify their actions (sins) and sooth over their conscience.

Of course, your words should be given with Love, Gentleness and in a non-judgmental way. If at all possible, always quote scriptures and not say things as though it is your opinion. Even then, they will argue with you, especially if you use the KJV (because they like to jump on this version as "old" and using words that can not be understood).

I have not gone to other co-workers who claimed to be saved to ask them why they didn't speak up and/or support me in the things that I said. That is between them and God and I feel would only put them on the defensive.

Sometimes it gets lonely out there, but I believe that Jesus and God are proud of those who speak up and defend His Word.



deermousie -> RE: Sex outside of marriage (6/25/2009 8:14:18 PM)

Sometimes it's a good thing to talk privately to a person rather than chance making a scene publically. There is a time for quiet conversation as well as dramatic clashes. Especially at work.

Whether a nonChristian who is about to be told God is going to take their candy away can be in a quiet conversation is a good question, but I'd tell the person I had no idea what kind of religion espouses the (weird) stuff she came up with, but here's what we Christians believe... and tell her.

She probably won't be crazy to hear the Bible isn't going to be politically updated soon but our sweet, reasonable approach will give the lie to her funny ideas.



SonInMe1 -> RE: Sex outside of marriage (6/25/2009 8:49:28 PM)

It was at work where associations are forced by the need to make money. The one who kept silent was the wise one.

Why? Becuase the unsaved cannot understand the bible and it is natural for them to rebel against it. Debating the bible's worth to an unsaved person will only cause contention and division. We are called to love our "enemies" not debate them.

There is probably more going on here than what was stated. Someone who is out there with their faith will always garner attention from those who are contentious. Its very probable that the person who came against the bible knew the christian was christian and just wanted to yank their chain some.

The election also is a factor in this. The left is now "popular" with their excusim for sin and people are emboldened to espouse their liberal sin-excusing ideologies.

If someone wants to know what the bible says, I tell them. Anytime I have enetered in a debate over what the bible says with an unsaved person, we both lose.

Live your walk and let your life witness to the glory of God. I know...its so much easier to talk the talk than walk the walk but if you want to be seen as a christian and want to witness to the unsaved, talk....is cheap.



19ramman85 -> RE: Sex outside of marriage (6/25/2009 11:30:21 PM)

Assuming this conversation is like the ones I've heard before .......

I wouldn't have said anything , either. Mostly because people like her have already closed their mind to anything even remotely - "religious". Because I have found thru trial & error, and hard-knocks - that there are people that are approachable - and those that aren't.

Now, if someone who wasn't exactly sure of religion had over-heard it, and questioned me, then yes - I would be more than glad to talk to them.



And maybe that is what your Christian co-worker was doing - avoiding an unnecessary debate.

SonInMe ...... "Its very probable that the person who came against the bible knew the christian was christian and just wanted to yank their chain some."

Another good possibility!


-charles



mvic -> RE: Sex outside of marriage (6/26/2009 7:19:26 AM)

I disagree with the two posters immediately above this post.

Little 1 was correct to speak out.

Whilst it is possible that the originator of the discussion was yanking her chain to see how she would react; by saying nothing or avoiding the subject altogether Little 1 would have played right into their hand and portrayed (wrongly as it happens) a lack of conviction. That's how her silence would have been interpreted even though it's the wrong interpretation.

Furthermore, silence may well have crushed and extinguished any small flame of Faith within other believers present. They would have felt that if a Spiritually higher Christian remained silent then the argument was not worth defending.

Little 1 did right to speak out and to stand for her Faith. I would have done the same.

There is no need for debate. Just state the facts clearly and leave it at that. If the un-believer does not want to listen that's their choice. But at least the believers present would have listened and taken courage for when a similar situation arises and Little 1 is not there to set an example.



Liveloved -> RE: Sex outside of marriage (6/26/2009 11:11:18 AM)

quote:

Would you sit by and say nothing if someone said something contrary to God's Word about His Word? Do you take advantage of opportunities which present themselves? What is your take on such?


I expect unbelievers to live in opposition to God and His word. So when they do, I do not engage in an argument. That accomplishes nothing.

Issues are often the devil's playground and cause more unnecessary alienation between people. Jesus used sin to build bridges to people NOT to alienate.

Also 'group' discussions are usually futile. If you want to talk to this person about sex and what the Lord says, I'd do it privately. And I'd start from the beginning, God's great love for us. His protective care is for our good. You know that, believe that, and can share that from your own experience.

I recently got into a discussion with an unbelieving friend about marriage. She is divorced. And she is involved with a family (who claim to be Christians) but are involved in a very ugly separation. There are ten children involved!

My friend knows what God says about divorce/marriage. She calls them hypocrites. I didn't argue. In fact, I agreed. I used this an an opportunity to share Christ with my friend. I used it as a bridge building experience rather than getting out the explosives and doing demolition [:D]. I say that because this approach has not come 'naturally' for me but supernaturally.

Most people respond defensively when confronted. Just look here on the forum and you'll see it. Yes, Jesus spoke the woes to the Pharisees and sometimes we have to as well. But that is usually to the religious ones in our midst. . . not to the worldly ones who claim nothing of Jesus.

Those are my thoughts, L1. I hope they are helpful to you.[:)]



bob97 -> RE: Sex outside of marriage (6/26/2009 1:27:22 PM)

Until the heart is changed by one accepting Christ, no amount of lecture means any thing to the unsaved...it is nonsense.

Bob



Mrs.Benelchi -> RE: Sex outside of marriage (6/26/2009 2:28:56 PM)

quote:

Afterwards when I spoke to my Christian colleague, she said she agreed with me but she never said she was praying during the conversation or offered any support.


Kudos for speaking up....it is not easy, I know. I have been in this situation several times....sometimes I spoke up, sometimes I did not...even when I felt led to. [:o]

Seems like in this situation you were the one who felt led....maybe you were the one God had there for that purpose. He only really needed one. She may be way out of her comfort zone in those types of situations, but may do very well at the bedside of a hospital patient or rocking a baby at church. The toe can do the fingers job.......maybe, but it would be awkward and messy. I would just let fingers be fingers and toes be toes. [;)]

Blessings!



Redjasper -> RE: Sex outside of marriage (6/26/2009 3:08:39 PM)

Little_1,

I'm not sure you will agree what I'm going to say, I don't think the office is a suitable environment to discuss the biggest matters of life, such as faith, God, the Bible and everything related. Maybe your coworker is uncomfortable discussing these things there and would prefer talking about it over a coffee or something. I know I'm uncomfortable talking about these in the office because I'm supposed to 100% concentrate on my work and employers don't like when people discuss such things there. Please don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you don't do your work in the office! What I'm trying to say here is that people have different comfort levels in discussing these matters at places like in an office.



Little_1 -> RE: Sex outside of marriage (6/26/2009 3:40:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GrannyofSix

I do not go around preaching voluntarily or giving out judgments in the work place (or anywhere else for that matter), but if a person brings it up first, then I definitely defend the Bible. I feel that I have to, or it gives the impression that I am agreeing with them. I can't allow that impression to be given.


AMEN

quote:

I am not popular during these conversations. Many, many times I have been the ONLY person who claims to be a Christian that speaks up, but I do anyway.

I am not ashamed of Jesus or the Gospel, and I don't want God to be ashamed of me.


I agree.

quote:

The views of Christians are not popular. The Bible is not popular. People want to live and do as they please and dare to criticize the Holy Word of God. We must share the Word with sinners and those that want to argue that the Bible is "out of date", "not reasonable for this day and time", or "not interpreted correctly". Those are just excuses given to them by Satan to justify their actions (sins) and sooth over their conscience.

Of course, your words should be given with Love, Gentleness and in a non-judgmental way. If at all possible, always quote scriptures and not say things as though it is your opinion. Even then, they will argue with you, especially if you use the KJV (because they like to jump on this version as "old" and using words that can not be understood).


AMEN

quote:

I have not gone to other co-workers who claimed to be saved to ask them why they didn't speak up and/or support me in the things that I said. That is between them and God and I feel would only put them on the defensive.


Good point.

quote:

Sometimes it gets lonely out there, but I believe that Jesus and God are proud of those who speak up and defend His Word.


This is true. Often being misunderstood is also another lonely road. Christ never said it would be easy...



Little_1 -> RE: Sex outside of marriage (6/26/2009 3:42:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: deermousie

Sometimes it's a good thing to talk privately to a person rather than chance making a scene publically. There is a time for quiet conversation as well as dramatic clashes. Especially at work.


We definitely do need to exercise wisdom.



Little_1 -> RE: Sex outside of marriage (6/26/2009 3:54:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mvic

I disagree with the two posters immediately above this post.

Little 1 was correct to speak out.

Whilst it is possible that the originator of the discussion was yanking her chain to see how she would react; by saying nothing or avoiding the subject altogether Little 1 would have played right into their hand and portrayed (wrongly as it happens) a lack of conviction. That's how her silence would have been interpreted even though it's the wrong interpretation.

Furthermore, silence may well have crushed and extinguished any small flame of Faith within other believers present. They would have felt that if a Spiritually higher Christian remained silent then the argument was not worth defending.

Little 1 did right to speak out and to stand for her Faith. I would have done the same.

There is no need for debate. Just state the facts clearly and leave it at that. If the un-believer does not want to listen that's their choice. But at least the believers present would have listened and taken courage for when a similar situation arises and Little 1 is not there to set an example.


mvic - this is a very wise post. Thank you for this. I do believe we also need to be careful that we speak to others in love as someone else has pointed out. I felt 'angry' (but I believe it was a righteous anger) and to keep it such, I prayed with each word I spoke asking the Lord to guide me and to help me stand firm. On the other hand, we also need to make sure that things don't get blown out of proportion because that is not God glorifying either and I was aware of such. As you have stated - say your piece and leave it with them to decide. There are times to speak up in the workplace and there are also times when it is wise to say nothing. On this occasion, I do believe it was right to speak up concerning not adding to or subtracting from God's Word to suit society.

Thanks mvic. I appreciate your help.



PixieSunBelle -> RE: Sex outside of marriage (6/26/2009 3:57:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Little_1

Today there was a conversation at work about sex before marriage. It mainly covered teenage sex and one non Christian stated that she gets upset when people say that people should not do this or that (meaning sex) and live by a set of rules laid down by their church or parents. She based her argument on children getting pregnant and being afraid to tell their 'religious' parents. She also thought the Bible needs to be more up-to-date with matters of sex as it is 'out of date' (her words).

That's not surprising and in fact I have a friend that gets mad and calls me close-minded when I stick to my guns about things and am not swayed...

quote:


I have to admit, I felt angry when she stated that the 'Bible needs to adapt to the changes in society' and that it is 'out of date' and prayed with every word I spoke to her after she said this. I guess Christians should not be surprised when non Christians say such things as moral decline is on the increase (even amongst Christians) but it hurt. Also, another Christian in the office kept quiet and did not defend the fact that we cannot adapt God's Word to suit societies ways. She did not seem bothered that God's standards were being spoken lightly of in front of the office and I find this upsetting and unsettling.

People will think what they want... I don't really get angry because that will not make them change their minds...

quote:


I don't know which upset me the most - the fact that someone slighted the Bible (albeit in ignorance) or that the other Christian in the office sat silent! I believe the latter. Perhaps it was wise for my Christian colleague to allow just one Christian to speak this time but it is not the first time she has sat silent and allowed others to mock God's standards... and I have waited and she has said nothing!

Afterwards when I spoke to my Christian colleague, she said she agreed with me but she never said she was praying during the conversation or offered any support.

I am like your colleague... I generally don't speak out. I am uncomfortable speaking out about anything, nor am i good at debating or defending. I lose even when I'm right... so, usually i say nothing when it comes to that. She was not required to speak out and you shouldn't be mad about that. It is her choice whether or not she wants to get in the middle of a debate or not. Maybe she didn't think it was her place or her conversation. Either way, not everyone is good at standing up or taking action against something. I know i'm not. I get tongue-tied and nervous...

quote:


Perhaps some will say that we have to live our lives before non Christians (which I am well aware) but I sometimes believe Christians use this line as an excuse not to share their faith in words... because they just never seem to do so (no matter what opportunities present themselves). God's Word says that "faith comes by hearing the Word of God" after all - not just by living our lives before others... I personally believe both count, i.e. sharing God's Word (when the opportunities present themselves) and living our lives right before others...

Not everyone is good at sharing things. Some people fail to realize this...

quote:


Would you sit by and say nothing if someone said something contrary to God's Word about His Word? Do you take advantage of opportunities which present themselves? What is your take on such?

I usually don't do anything... I'm generally not good at defending religion, God, or anything so I just don't...



mvic -> RE: Sex outside of marriage (6/26/2009 3:59:51 PM)

Little 1

You know you did well. No matter what others say here.



Little_1 -> RE: Sex outside of marriage (6/26/2009 4:20:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leveled

...I expect unbelievers to live in opposition to God and His word. So when they do, I do not engage in an argument. That accomplishes nothing.


There was no arguement. Noone was arguing. We were talking 'work related' info. Our jobs actually involve such issues as under age sex to be discussed because we work for an agency which involves protecting children. It was also the non believer who brought up the Bible in the first instance.

quote:

Issues are often the devil's playground and cause more unnecessary alienation between people...


I agree and this is why we need wisdom to know when to speak and to know when to remain silent.

quote:

... Jesus used sin to build bridges to people NOT to alienate.


Could you explain a little clearer as this is a bit ambiguous. I would appreciate this and hopefully I'll understand what you mean better without jumping to the wrong conclusion.


quote:

I recently got into a discussion with an unbelieving friend about marriage. She is divorced. And she is involved with a family (who claim to be Christians) but are involved in a very ugly separation. There are ten children involved!

My friend knows what God says about divorce/marriage. She calls them hypocrites. I didn't argue. In fact, I agreed. I used this an an opportunity to share Christ with my friend. I used it as a bridge building experience rather than getting out the explosives and doing demolition [:D]. I say that because this approach has not come 'naturally' for me but supernaturally.


This was a good opportunity to share God's Word and you used it well.

quote:

Most people respond defensively when confronted. Just look here on the forum and you'll see it. Yes, Jesus spoke the woes to the Pharisees and sometimes we have to as well. But that is usually to the religious ones in our midst. . . not to the worldly ones who claim nothing of Jesus.


Am I right in thinking that you believe I should have said nothing to her because she is a non believer and Christians should only defend the Word of God when speaking to religious Pharisees? Have I understood this correctly? I don't want to assume anything so if I'm wrong please explain. P.S. If this is correct, I respect we have differing opinions.

quote:

Those are my thoughts, L1. I hope they are helpful to you.[:)]



Thanks Liveloved. Some of this has helped - the rest I'm trying to understand because I'm not sure if I've grasped what you are trying to say or not.



Little_1 -> RE: Sex outside of marriage (6/26/2009 4:34:37 PM)

quote:

People will think what they want... I don't really get angry because that will not make them change their minds...


Wise if this is 'non righteous' anger. There are 2 types of anger - non righteous anger and righteous anger. I believe we need to keep a check on righteous anger also because it can so easily turn into unrighteous anger if we don't focus on the Lord.

quote:


I usually don't do anything... I'm generally not good at defending religion, God, or anything so I just don't...


God's Word teaches us...

But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, (1 Peter 3:15).

Pray and ask the Lord to give you opportunities (wisdom) and ask Him to help you obey... I too find it difficult to speak to others and sometimes I actually shake and come out in a rash but the Lord then takes over and gives His Holy Spirit boldness at such times. You may still shake (and turn pink) but you know He is helping you obey... weakness is the perfect place for His strength to be displayed... God also takes the foolish things in the eyes of the world to confound those who are wise in their own estimation...



Little_1 -> RE: Sex outside of marriage (6/26/2009 4:44:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: IwillseekHim

Personally, I would have took the opportunity to speak. But with that being said, I do not know this person and do not know how far in her walk she is with the Lord. I have been a christian for 30 years, much more mature in my daily living for God. She may not be. It would be nice had she of spoken, but it doesnt make her less of a christian. She may be shy and not bold or secure in speaking to others yet.Some christians are new christians and may be alittle scared to speak up. She may have felt you were doing a fine job and could have been praying about it, I don't know her heart and therefore can not say she was wrong,so to speak, in not saying anything. Only God knows her heart and why she did not or was unable to speak up for Him.Don't be disappointed in her, she just may not be mature as you as a christian. Just my thoughts...


God wants us ALL to obey 1 Peter 3:15. However, I also respect the fact that she believed (rightly or wrongly) that it was wise to say nothing or to allow one person to speak because perhaps she may have thought that was suffice. Perhaps I should have asked her later why she said nothing to clear up my concerns.



SonInMe1 -> RE: Sex outside of marriage (6/26/2009 7:59:55 PM)

God does not need our help. When we are asked to witness, by Him, its so we can be blessed as His instrument.

With this blessing will come persecution. Blessed are those who are persecuted in my name.

God does not need us to come to His defence. While we are never to deny Him before men, we do not need to defned Him either.

If you challenge the morality of an unsaved person, debate isn't the answer. You'll just come off as judgemental...something we are not called to be as christians, judgeing the world is God's job.

God does provide the opportunity to witness, even at work, but confrontation, I doubt, is the circumstance He provides. Its been my experience, a life experience for the unsaved person will open the door, when they NEED to hear about Jesus, not when they want to argue about Him.

I'll tell you about two situations at work....

we had a drug test, a few failed. Seldom is anyone transfered from one press to another but I was shortly after the test...guess where I went? To the press where two had failed the test. By their own conversation, I was led to present Jesus to them.

The other was a young man having girl problems, with his live in gf. That opened the door for a discussion on biblical principles.

The opportunites are there and I think, we must use discernment in when we are called tow itness...and when we are not.



PixieSunBelle -> RE: Sex outside of marriage (6/26/2009 11:08:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Little_1

quote:

People will think what they want... I don't really get angry because that will not make them change their minds...


quote:

Wise if this is 'non righteous' anger. There are 2 types of anger - non righteous anger and righteous anger. I believe we need to keep a check on righteous anger also because it can so easily turn into unrighteous anger if we don't focus on the Lord.

true

quote:


I usually don't do anything... I'm generally not good at defending religion, God, or anything so I just don't...


quote:

God's Word teaches us...

But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, (1 Peter 3:15).

...not everyone wants to be a missionary, and not everyone feels called to be one either.
sometimes one on one i can have a conversation about God... but that is rare. I never debate though...
anyways, i do not feel convicted to be a missionary...
however, if asked what i believe- i do tell people.

quote:


Pray and ask the Lord to give you opportunities (wisdom) and ask Him to help you obey... I too find it difficult to speak to others and sometimes I actually shake and come out in a rash but the Lord then takes over and gives His Holy Spirit boldness at such times. You may still shake (and turn pink) but you know He is helping you obey... weakness is the perfect place for His strength to be displayed... God also takes the foolish things in the eyes of the world to confound those who are wise in their own estimation...

I do not wish to ask God to give me opportunities... i do not want them



Liveloved -> RE: Sex outside of marriage (6/27/2009 12:06:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Little_1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leveled

...I expect unbelievers to live in opposition to God and His word. So when they do, I do not engage in an argument. That accomplishes nothing.


There was no arguement. Noone was arguing. We were talking 'work related' info. Our jobs actually involve such issues as under age sex to be discussed because we work for an agency which involves protecting children. It was also the non believer who brought up the Bible in the first instance.

I wasn't assuming you were involved in an argument. I was just speaking to the topic in a general way---not to your specific situation.

quote:

Issues are often the devil's playground and cause more unnecessary alienation between people...


I agree and this is why we need wisdom to know when to speak and to know when to remain silent.

quote:

... Jesus used sin to build bridges to people NOT to alienate.


Could you explain a little clearer as this is a bit ambiguous. I would appreciate this and hopefully I'll understand what you mean better without jumping to the wrong conclusion.

Jesus attracted sinners to Himself---scripture speaks of His hanging out with sinners. He didn't speak words of condemnation but words of love and they were convicted.


quote:

I recently got into a discussion with an unbelieving friend about marriage. She is divorced. And she is involved with a family (who claim to be Christians) but are involved in a very ugly separation. There are ten children involved!

My friend knows what God says about divorce/marriage. She calls them hypocrites. I didn't argue. In fact, I agreed. I used this an an opportunity to share Christ with my friend. I used it as a bridge building experience rather than getting out the explosives and doing demolition [:D]. I say that because this approach has not come 'naturally' for me but supernaturally.


This was a good opportunity to share God's Word and you used it well.

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Most people respond defensively when confronted. Just look here on the forum and you'll see it. Yes, Jesus spoke the woes to the Pharisees and sometimes we have to as well. But that is usually to the religious ones in our midst. . . not to the worldly ones who claim nothing of Jesus.


Am I right in thinking that you believe I should have said nothing to her because she is a non believer and Christians should only defend the Word of God when speaking to religious Pharisees?

No, that is certainly not what I'm saying. Not being there, it's not for me to say whether you should have engaged in conversation with her. But I don't think we have to defend God's word---especially to an unbeliever. That is futile. As are most conversations with Pharisees.[:D]


Have I understood this correctly? I don't want to assume anything so if I'm wrong please explain. P.S. If this is correct, I respect we have differing opinions.

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Those are my thoughts, L1. I hope they are helpful to you.[:)]



Thanks Liveloved. Some of this has helped - the rest I'm trying to understand because I'm not sure if I've grasped what you are trying to say or not.



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