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RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 6/30/2009 10:08:10 PM
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solo_soprano23
Posts: 2082
Joined: 4/27/2005
From: I'm a Southern girl
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Perhaps they should offer a rebate, if applicable.
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For God, For Learning, Forever.
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RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 6/30/2009 10:58:22 PM
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phosadaud
Posts: 10569
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Washington State
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Auben
quote:
A "free" to members wedding from a church is a GIFT and I am shocked that anyone thinks the church OWES them a gift. If the church can and does give this gift, that is up to the church but it is not an obligation. In either case I'd rather my tithe money go to preach to the lost than give me, who has been blessed with much (although the world may not think so), a free wedding.
But it's not a gift. If you and your family have consistently attended, tithed, gifted, volunteered, and have a relationship at a church, you have already paid for the time they are investing in you by investing it in others.
So, they owe it to you? 
That's kind of my point... Everything I do for my church is my gift. A gift has no expectation of return. Otherwise, it's barter. I don't barter with my church. If my church wants to do something free for me (and they do all the time), that's awesome. But who am I to dictate to the church what they will spend on me? A wedding isn't free.
And by the way: Just because you pay for the use of a facility, doesn't mean you shouldn't help clean up, etc. In fact, that is being a good steward. Sadly, when I worked as a church bookkeeper, more often than not the folks who paid for something were the better stewards and the ones who expected someone else to pay for them were generally the ones who left the biggest mess.
Of course, I'm also a big proponent of the Scriptures that tell us that a worker is due his wages. I just can't comprehend someone being expected (not asked, expected) to work for me and me not want to pay them. That just flies in the face of what I was taught growing up and what I believe from Scripture. I don't mean to be difficult, but I honestly don't get it.
I also can empathize with trainfan. Having formerly worked as a bookkeeper as a church, those of you who say you do all this great stuff, are the exception, not the rule. 
_____________________________
~Kristin~
Did you ever notice there are no recipes for leftover chocolate?
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RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/1/2009 2:34:10 AM
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Ps103
Posts: 12140
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From: Here, now
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Maybe I am just weird, but to me marriage is a sacrament, and a church charging for sacraments is just wrong.
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RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/1/2009 7:44:53 AM
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LizzieJ.
Posts: 257
Joined: 6/30/2009
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quote:
to me marriage is a sacrament
The "use" of a building is not what makes it a sacrament.
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RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/1/2009 7:53:54 AM
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Auben
Posts: 1146
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: Where pines tower and cranberries float
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quote:
So, they owe it to you?
That's kind of my point... Everything I do for my church is my gift. A gift has no expectation of return. Otherwise, it's barter. I don't barter with my church. If my church wants to do something free for me (and they do all the time), that's awesome. But who am I to dictate to the church what they will spend on me? A wedding isn't free.
It's a relationship. If I have a friend and I treat them well and they don't respond in kind do I drop them? No, but I do limit my contact with them and find people who are willing to be responsive to me. If you must, I am 'owed' an equitable relationship because I choose to believe I am worthy of one. I will gain an equitable relationship by being trustworthy and attracting others who feel the same.
It's the same with a church. I'm extremely uncomfortable with a church claims my time and money but is unwilling to involve themselves in my life to celebrate and work with me during my special times. If there's no trust and no give and take as we bless one another, how is there a relationship? Otherwise it's just a club I attend.
It's not about 'owing' it's about reciprocation which is a kind of barter, a barter of trust. All relationships are barter. You would not attend your church unless you were getting something out of it. The difference is that you think the only thing you can get out of it is spiritual, while I think that you should receive both spiritual guidance plus support and trust (earned) in the body of Christ.
I would not be a part of a church who's body are strangers to the degree that the people I work with and pray with multiple times a week fear that I would dump on them in this way. If I'm not trustworthy, if I'm not open enough for you to reprove or ask for help then this is not the church for me.
I feel bad that everyone doesn't have congregations like that. I suppose it's a hazard of attending a large church: great VBS, higher level of difficulty in getting members to connect and communicate.
_____________________________
Tamara
~Everywhere is walking distance if you have the time~
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RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/1/2009 8:08:13 AM
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LizzieJ.
Posts: 257
Joined: 6/30/2009
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quote:
I suppose it's a hazard of attending a large church: great VBS, higher level of difficulty in getting members to connect and communicate.
No exactly. In the large Churches it is impossible to know everyone. You have smaller groups that you do know very well much like the community style church you described. In larger Churches most of my friends did not live in the same area their family did. Most of us were transplants. Many of the couples who married in that church were moving away after the wedding. (leaving no one to call if it had been discovered the sound system had been destroyed or if we believed the cater took all the Church table cloths) Even if they had stayed most spent all their money on the wedding and honeymoom. We are "not" going to sue them.
Even though the circle of close friends know you well you know too that a few hundred others don't know you at all. Charging is a way to protect one another in large churches.
I do not find it is insulting or impersonal to pay for the use of the church fellowship hall when my children had birthday parties hosted there. I understood that I was possibly "knocking" someone else out, the church had a much higher power bill, the church was taking on the liability issue, the church faced possible damage to their facility issues, and we used the kitchen and restrooms at will.
The ability to communicate is what allowed that Church to keep things peaceful and running as a unit. In a large Chruch you may have a better connection with the people in your group. The group may well be a larger group in number than the group at the smaller churches.
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RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/1/2009 8:27:27 AM
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PinkCarnations
Posts: 10810
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Auben
quote:
A "free" to members wedding from a church is a GIFT and I am shocked that anyone thinks the church OWES them a gift. If the church can and does give this gift, that is up to the church but it is not an obligation. In either case I'd rather my tithe money go to preach to the lost than give me, who has been blessed with much (although the world may not think so), a free wedding.
But it's not a gift. If you and your family have consistently attended, tithed, gifted, volunteered, and have a relationship at a church, you have already paid for the time they are investing in you by investing it in others.
We were married at my husband's church. We were not charged for the sanctuary. Were not charged for the fellowship hall. We were not charged by the pastor (although we did give him a gift).
We have a relationship with the church. That's the difference. That means that if the caterer left a mess they know they can call up my in-laws (if we're not available) and let them know so they can help clean up the mess! That means that we will pay for cleaning that was missed or that we will go clean in-laws house for thanks when we're back from our honeymoon. That means that the 100 people invited love us enough that they will pitch in...not just assume that this is a party.
Every family wedding I've been to the aunts all gather round and do this stuff. I was at a wedding in April. I walked around, watched my kids, packed up, cleaned up, straightened up while photos were being taken. This is what we're supposed to do. I had my boys help. They need to learn this stuff too.
Granted not everyone in this country understands this anymore, but if you have a relationship with the church and a relationship with each other there is no need for fees. It's only when you have no relationship that people need to protect themselves from selfish behavior with fees.
Excellent post!
_____________________________
Thank you Veterans.
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RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/1/2009 8:34:08 AM
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LizzieJ.
Posts: 257
Joined: 6/30/2009
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This is beginning to sound like a "my church is better than your church"....because........I know everyone in mine and you don't.
Been to both kinds of Churches. This is not something we need to "judge" on another over. We need to have some understanding that God has all types of congregation sizes and styles. He uses and grows them both.
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RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/1/2009 8:49:38 AM
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LizzieJ.
Posts: 257
Joined: 6/30/2009
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quote:
Granted not everyone in this country understands this anymore, but if you have a relationship with the church and a relationship with each other there is no need for fees. It's only when you have no relationship that people need to protect themselves from selfish behavior with fees.
If God broke out Revival in your church and God added to your numbers hundreds would you "leave" that Church because you did not know everyone?
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RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/1/2009 8:56:37 AM
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LizzieJ.
Posts: 257
Joined: 6/30/2009
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quote:
I can understand having to pay for the work people have to put into it, but sometimes the price seems inflated for it to be one day (and a rehearsal). I guess they can do what they want and charge what they want, but it just doesn't seem right to me (for a church to overcharge-- I understand charging for the work that people have to do for the wedding). I think I'd at least want to see a cost breakdown to see where the money was going. But, if you have to pay for cleaning staff, I don't see why it has to be the same rate whether you leave 100 hours of cleanup or 1 hour of cleanup. Could you not have a hourly rate for cleanup, and bill them later for that part since it's unknown?
We discovered that trying to "bill people later" does not work. Most young couples have no money after the wedding and honeymoon.
We get our money on the day they reserve the church. That day is then blocked out preventing our Church from being able to use the facility if we have something we want to do and insuring the couple the church is theirs so they can go ahead with their plans. If you call off the wedding or find another location to host the wedding, we refund all but $100.00. (we have good reason for this as well - people were reserving the Church and fellowship hall but were on waiting list at other churches/halls or shopping around - we were being used and dumped at the last minute......meaning no events could be planned on those weekends by our own members. The clean up crew was on stand by and had turned down other possible jobs, the person responsible for staying at the church protecting our property was being abused as well.
I have forgotten what the power bill was to heat and cool our sanctuary at a church we once attended. It was extremely high. They have high ceilings. I believe it took 3 outdoor units just to heat and cool the sanctuary. They would have to cut them on full speed 24 hrs before the sanctuary would be used. We as a congregation had stopped using the sanctuary on Wed. and Thrus. night bible study because the power bill was so high. We used a smaller hall room.
Most Churches I have been part of these types of discussion with don't desire to make a profit. They desire to cut out those who never darken the door and want a "free place" to get married (our Church reason - we are not in the wedding hosting business for strangers) and they want to make sure it does not cost the church much to host these types of events - making our true ministries suffer. ( happened at the last wedding for outsiders our church hosted - they destroyed many things including the A/C. We had no "heat" the following Sunday. They also took many things from the Church that did not belong to them and we have no way of getting those items back)
Another reason we decided to begin to charge for our Church is because when the youth had planned to have retreat at the Church the calendar was booked with strangers weddings.
We don't have problems anymore. It appears the word on the "street" was you could get married in our Church for free and people were taking advantage of us.
< Message edited by LizzieJ. -- 7/1/2009 9:15:52 AM >
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Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/1/2009 11:29:15 AM
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PinkCarnations
Posts: 10810
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Just wanted to say hi LizzieJ and welcome to the forums!
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Thank you Veterans.
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RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/1/2009 12:29:12 PM
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trainfan
Posts: 2363
Joined: 7/26/2007
From: The land of confusion
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quote:
Of course, I'm also a big proponent of the Scriptures that tell us that a worker is due his wages. I just can't comprehend someone being expected (not asked, expected) to work for me and me not want to pay them. That just flies in the face of what I was taught growing up and what I believe from Scripture. I don't mean to be difficult, but I honestly don't get it.
Exactly!
If people would have been happy getting married in a church that had sat for the whole week without getting cleaned after a weeks worth of activities then it would have been fine not to charge them b/c they would have not created the whole mess. But people do want to get married in a clean facility which means extra work for those doing the cleaning.
< Message edited by trainfan -- 7/1/2009 12:39:46 PM >
_____________________________
Disappoints are inevitable, discouragment is a choice.
Dr. Charles Stanley.
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RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/1/2009 12:38:51 PM
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LizzieJ.
Posts: 257
Joined: 6/30/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
Of course, I'm also a big proponent of the Scriptures that tell us that a worker is due his wages. I just can't comprehend someone being expected (not asked, expected) to work for me and me not want to pay them. That just flies in the face of what I was taught growing up and what I believe from Scripture. I don't mean to be difficult, but I honestly don't get it.
Now I am going to defend the "small church" view.
Do you expect your family to do certain things for you? That is how many "small" churches views these sorts of things. It's not at all one sided. The couple getting married may have cut the pastor's yard for free when they were in the hospital with an illness or baby sat for them when they wanted to go on date night. No one expected anyone to pay for these things with anything other than "like acts of kindness".
These are "cultural differances".
In some cultures I can walk in someone's back door get out a soda and sit on their couch. In other cultures I must go to the front door, ring the bell, wait to be asked if I would care for a soda and to come in to have a seat.
Both ways are "good". Neither is bad. They are just differant.
< Message edited by LizzieJ. -- 7/1/2009 1:01:58 PM >
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RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/1/2009 2:41:33 PM
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laura...
Posts: 3278
Joined: 3/1/2005
From: NE Ohio
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If I live in a house as part of a family and I pay my share of the living expenses I would expect to be able to schedule a party without having to pay to use the house.
As a member of the church, I pay my share of the expenses of the church. That's called tithes and offerings plus volunteer time. I don't believe that members should be charged to use the facilities that they are already paying for. I don't think members should be required to pay a pastor a fee to officiate their vows when they are already paying his salary to do his job. An honorarium is a thoughtful thank you but should not be required. I have no problem with requiring members to pay reasonable compensation for janitors and technicians.
Non-members should be charged a reasonable, market price for the use of the facilities and services.
_____________________________
This is what the Lord says: “Stop at the crossroads and look around. Ask for the old, godly way, and walk in it. Travel its path, and you will find rest for your souls. But you reply, ‘No, that’s not the road we want!’ Jer 6:16
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RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/1/2009 2:49:51 PM
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LizzieJ.
Posts: 257
Joined: 6/30/2009
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quote:
As a member of the church, I pay my share of the expenses of the church. That's called tithes and offerings plus volunteer time. I don't believe that members should be charged to use the facilities that they are already paying for. I don't think members should be required to pay a pastor a fee to officiate their vows when they are already paying his salary to do his job.
Does your church keep a list of those who tithe and how many hours of their time they give?
Do they charge those who don't "give their fair share"?
In the "job description" for your pastor did it spell out that he would be required to preform all weddings? What about funerals?
(just wondering because it's not part of our pastor's job description nor do we charge our members - some of whom give nothing to our church and most don't tithe much less give offerings but we allow them to use the Church without charge)
< Message edited by LizzieJ. -- 7/1/2009 3:01:51 PM >
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RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/1/2009 3:27:41 PM
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hjemerson
Posts: 172
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WOW i never guess how thing have changed or drifferent church do things, When we married both were active and menber of our church WE were marreied on a sat night and our parents and family assited the carter that set up and took down all the church stuff and reception item , We knew what had to be done rooms to be really for SS and carpet to be cleaned and books replaced. But it was a gift and a family event ,med size 100-150 .I do belive the pastor and all other staff should be given a up front love offerent, ( at least $10-15 an hour base) My Husband has ans does ply /work the sound/and even have been the janioter in the past ,Yes many time you you not even told thank you! So it is sad whwn peole us the chudh as just a builing and may that why aso many charge HIGH prices! SO that why when people look to get married they look to the church! Again latter if a problem come a round, sickness etc, Wedding can be Big Busness and some how our Lords get left out of it! Very intrsting to reaqd about all this !Happy my two daughter are married and we had a loving family church to them to be married in ,We did it all and no cost for the building, we claened our self before and after and the pastor returned the love gift as did the musci etc ,Our daufghter had grew up from 4yr till the day they were married in the church to other that grew up so ,life goes on!
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RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/1/2009 8:15:27 PM
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phosadaud
Posts: 10569
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Washington State
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ps103
Maybe I am just weird, but to me marriage is a sacrament, and a church charging for sacraments is just wrong.
I've never known a church to charge for physically marrying someone. It's only when it comes to all the hooplah around the actual exchange of vows. I've never viewed that as the sacriment, but I suppose there may be different traditions here.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Auben
It's the same with a church. I'm extremely uncomfortable with a church claims my time and money but is unwilling to involve themselves in my life to celebrate and work with me during my special times. If there's no trust and no give and take as we bless one another, how is there a relationship? Otherwise it's just a club I attend.
So, you gathered all that from the simple fact that a church may charge a fee to cover the costs of a wedding? My church gives me much and blesses me in ways I can't even begin to count. They also charge basic fees to help cover the cost of events that I may want to hold. I do not give my tithes & offerings to pay for the church or the pastor's salary. My tithes go to God and the church is the steward of those moneys to use in a way that works for His Kingdom.
If your church chooses to bless you in this way - awesome. I have no problem with that. What I have a problem with is telling me that any church that charges is some kind of selfish, money-grabbing, non-relational social club. 
quote:
It's not about 'owing' it's about reciprocation which is a kind of barter, a barter of trust. All relationships are barter. You would not attend your church unless you were getting something out of it. The difference is that you think the only thing you can get out of it is spiritual, while I think that you should receive both spiritual guidance plus support and trust (earned) in the body of Christ.
You seem to know a lot about what I think. A church does give spiritual guidance, support and trust. I don't see what that has to do with asking folks who are able to help cover the costs of their CHOICE to have a wedding (I'm not talking about the simple exchange of vows).  I mean, my church doesn't charge if you want to come in and meet with the pastor and have him marry you.
My church is about meeting needs...
Not wants... (although they bless many of those wants anyway)
In Scripture, it says the early believers made all kinds of sacrifices to meet NEEDS. I think many of us need a reality check when it comes to need vs. want.
quote:
I would not be a part of a church who's body are strangers to the degree that the people I work with and pray with multiple times a week fear that I would dump on them in this way. If I'm not trustworthy, if I'm not open enough for you to reprove or ask for help then this is not the church for me.
No one here has said anything about someone asking for help. My church family has helped me move... helped me with car trouble... helped me during difficult times... sent flowers when I was grieving... helped care for my home & critters when I had to go out of town... etc... And I have helped many of my church family when they have asked.
That's not what this thread was about. This thread is about churches charging for weddings.
quote:
I feel bad that everyone doesn't have congregations like that. I suppose it's a hazard of attending a large church: great VBS, higher level of difficulty in getting members to connect and communicate.
Sorry you have such a poor image of large churches. I've never had that experience in a large church.
_____________________________
~Kristin~
Did you ever notice there are no recipes for leftover chocolate?
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RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/2/2009 3:01:40 PM
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kernsfamily
Posts: 797
Joined: 4/26/2006
From: Dallas (originally Detroit)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano23
Neither have I. My church has about 10,000 members, but I feel better there than at my old church of about 50-70 members (where everyone knew your name).  Both are Bible-believing churches. We don't have issues getting people to connect and communicate though... that just depends on what large church you're at. ;)
i'll "third" that....sure, our church may have a nominal fee to have a wedding there. So what? Many members opt to get married elsewhere, too. Why? A number of reasons (and they typically pay FAR above what they would have if they got married AT the church)...of course, that's directly before the honeymoon to Mauritius, Fiji or Tahiti......
I'll take my 27,000+ member church over my in-laws 100 member church anyday....(and, it's not just because our church is bigger....it's the teaching, the people, and all those other "characteristics" wrapped up)....
_____________________________
Proud dad of 3 great girls....Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/2/2009 5:16:39 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 6733
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kernsfamily
i'll "third" that....sure, our church may have a nominal fee to have a wedding there. So what? Many members opt to get married elsewhere, too. Why? A number of reasons (and they typically pay FAR above what they would have if they got married AT the church)...of course, that's directly before the honeymoon to Mauritius, Fiji or Tahiti......
I'll take my 27,000+ member church over my in-laws 100 member church anyday....(and, it's not just because our church is bigger....it's the teaching, the people, and all those other "characteristics" wrapped up)....
I guess I just do not understand the reasoning behind the charge for the wedding Kernsfamily.
You said it was $1800 for the large Sanctuary to cover all the cost and salaries for the necessary folks.
With 27,000 members that works out to about 6 cents per member cost out of the budget to just let the members who need it to be allowed to use it. Extrapolate that out for the 200 weddings a year that would be around 12 dollars per member to be part of that blessing of having helped give those couples a day they will remember forever.
That surely cannot hurt the Churches budget.
But of course that is just me.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/2/2009 5:22:24 PM
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LizzieJ.
Posts: 257
Joined: 6/30/2009
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That's over $360,000.00 per year.
That can support many missionary families, give many free bibles away and help to supply the nursing home with a part time pastor.
Maybe their congregation had rather their tithes and offering be used for the things mentioned above?
< Message edited by LizzieJ. -- 7/2/2009 5:49:31 PM >
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RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/2/2009 6:01:06 PM
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kernsfamily
Posts: 797
Joined: 4/26/2006
From: Dallas (originally Detroit)
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LizzieJ.
That's over $360,000.00 per year.
That can support many missionary families, give many free bibles away and help to supply the nursing home with a part time pastor.
Maybe their congregation had rather their tithes and offering be used for the things mentioned above?
good point. if church members are willing to "pay their own way" (and they are!) when it comes to having their wedding at the church, then why not? let the church use the money for something else.
hmmm....perhaps one might get a better idea of what the money is for...... in the meantime, feel free to visit that portion of the church's website (the one dedicated to wedding info)
http://www.prestonwoodweddings.org/sites/document.asp?did=6014
quote:
You said it was $1800 for the large Sanctuary to cover all the cost and salaries for the necessary folks.
I doubt many people use the large sanctuary....though, if they have over 550 guests (what the chapel holds), then I guess they would....
_____________________________
Proud dad of 3 great girls....Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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