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RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/2/2009 8:27:16 PM
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Liveloved
Posts: 1822
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Eliana
This issue came up on a wedding thread in the women's folder. It was mentioned that some people have had to pay upwards of $1000 to hire their church sanctuary for their weddings, and some pastors have charged an additional $500 to officiate.
For those of you who are pastors or in church leadership, do you charge people to use the church and/or to marry them? Do you think that it's a good practise?
Edited to add: Those who aren't in church leadership are free to air their opinions on this, too.
I think this 'problem' has arisen because of people taking advantage of pastors and churches. For the unbelieving world, this is excusable. We should expect such from them. But perhaps much of it comes from those who call themselves by the name of Christ???
When my parents died (1988/1991) we paid all of those who devoted extra time (such as the organist/vocalist/pastor) $75/each. I have a friend who is a church organist and I asked her recently what she gets paid for a funeral---twenty years later? $75!
My family is not wealthy but we recognize that these things require hours of preparation/time from the individuals involved. If those who call themselves by the name of Christ would put others first and get their priority in order (namely Jesus), these problems wouldn't exist.
For nonmembers/unbelievers using the facility, I have no problem with a fee. I'm sure they expect it and are willing to pay.
_____________________________
Liveloved
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13
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RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/2/2009 9:23:24 PM
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pruned
Posts: 1582
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I'm sorry I'm coming back to the discussion so late.
Our wedding coordinator coordinates our church facility with the wedding party. They're the folks who let you in the building. They tell you if you can move this piece of furniture or cover this bulletin board or find a table that can be used for _______. They make sure that wedding policies are being followed.
Let's go back to they're the folks who let you in the building. The wedding coordinator showed up at the church on Friday evening at 5 because you were still decorating and the church staff is leaving. The rehearsal is at 6:30 and over when... sometimes in an hour and sometimes much longer. There's still decorating to be done before they leave. Or maybe they have the rehearsal dinner at church too.
The wedding is on Saturday at 4 p.m. The wedding party has told the baker to deliver the cake at 10 a.m. The florist will deliver at noon. The photographer will arrive at 2 p.m. The reception's at 6 and isn't over until ???
The wedding coordinator has just spent many hours at the church. We don't leave nonmembers w/o one of us present on site. For all of this staying power, we charge $50 which is for this person's presence. Averaging about 12 hours for a wedding, the coordinator is compensated at about $4/hour.
Active Members are allowed a key so they can come and go as they please. However, sometimes they don't want one because the bridal couple usually doesn't want to be the last one out the door.
_____________________________
I owe more to the fire, and the hammer, and the file, than anything else in the Lord's workshop. -- Charles Spurgeon
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RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/2/2009 9:41:11 PM
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pruned
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Our church does not actually charge anything for the use of the building. We collect fees for reimbursing people for their time and expertise.
We only allow a few trained people in our sound booth. Even all of our staff does not know how to work our sound equipment. We do not allow people who are not trained on our equipment to provide this service.
Sometimes, these people (custodian, coordinator, sound) will do these services for free. When a member gets married, often the staff will let them know who they should ask for each thing they'll need done. Many times, because it's "one of us", they're delighted to do so at no charge.
_____________________________
I owe more to the fire, and the hammer, and the file, than anything else in the Lord's workshop. -- Charles Spurgeon
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RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/2/2009 9:46:43 PM
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pruned
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One last comment. Trainfan is correct. One has a completely different view of how things should be handled when you're on the other side. Working a wedding changes one's perspective. Well, let's say working several weddings changes your perspective. They're all different. Get a variety of experience when you volunteer to help do weddings at your church.
_____________________________
I owe more to the fire, and the hammer, and the file, than anything else in the Lord's workshop. -- Charles Spurgeon
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RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/3/2009 3:13:44 PM
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myka
Posts: 978
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quote:
i'll "third" that....sure, our church may have a nominal fee to have a wedding there. So what?
$800 for a 100 person wedding is not a 'nominal fee'; it can be cost prohibitive to people.
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RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/5/2009 6:21:37 PM
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iluvatar
Posts: 3052
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quote:
ORIGINAL: myka
quote:
i'll "third" that....sure, our church may have a nominal fee to have a wedding there. So what?
$800 for a 100 person wedding is not a 'nominal fee'; it can be cost prohibitive to people.
What's often overlooked is that frequently, the service provided by the higher-priced churches is better and/or more comprehensive than the service provided smaller churches than don't charge as much (I consider visual appeal/aesthetics as part of that service). I don't think that these services are being provided as a means to make a profit, but to ensure that everything runs smoothly and is done properly. Running a big, busy place like kerns' church, they probably can't afford to run things in a slip-shod manner. Doing so makes things difficult for everybody involved and on a broader scale, has the potential to negatively affect their witness.
If you don't want to pay for a place that requires you to have a wedding coordinator, 2 janitors, and separate sound and lighting techs, then find some place that's more simple.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/5/2009 10:25:18 PM
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phosadaud
Posts: 10569
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Washington State
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At my church and every church I know, you can get a very inexpensive if not free wedding. You just don't get all the bells and whistles and lots of free labor because you WANT a big wedding.
Sorry, but I can't comprehend living my life dictating to my family and my friends how they will "pay me back" and "when" for what I had supposedly given to God - freely and with no strings attached. Apparently my giving to God is supposed to get me something materially in this country and I find that a bit disturbing. God wants a cheerful giver - not one who has ledger in hand making sure they "get back" what they gave. 
As far as being "cost prohibitive", if you genuinely can't afford to get married, my church does do free weddings. But, don't expect the fairy tale wedding that you see on TV.
Seriously though, not ONE person here has said their church wouldn't marry someone IF the person couldn't afford much. So what's the gripe? Are some of you saying that the church should pay for everything a couple wants in their wedding? Where do you draw the line? Are we going to check people's tithing records and volunteer time to see how "much" we give them back for their wedding? The bigger the tither, the more they get since apparently that means they are "owed" more? 
Of course, you can ask my Grandparent's who have been married now for 66 years about how "important" all the frills and stuff are when you get married. My Grandma didn't even get a "dress" but their marriage was built on the Lord - which is what the church should be focused on.
You can stick up your nose at my church because we, shudder, charge for various aspects of weddings, but I'm proud to say that I go to a church that is more focused on MARRIAGES than on WEDDINGS. THAT's where I want MY tithes to go to. Not to new candles and a cool powerpoint presentation. You can call me selfish and unloving for that, but I will stand before God not you on the judgement day so bring it on. 
I'm beginning to wonder if that's part of the disconnect here. Do we as a church put all our effort and eggs into paying someone "back" by giving them material stuff or do we spent our effort and such into building people up and growing marriages that honor the Lord. My church (and I hope all churches here) values the marriages more than a wedding ceremony. That's the priority so THAT is what it spends all it's money on. Where I live, a number of churches, across denominations, have joined together to deal with the horrific divorce rate in churches. They were convicted that the divorce rate was so high when most folks get married in churches and began to realize that they were spending more time getting folks ready for the wedding and not for the marriage. So, they implemented some changes which included required pre-marital counseling. One of the first things they say in all those counseling appointments is that our society's focus on the wedding ceremony and how much time and money we spend on those couple of hours (which are quickly forgotten) is the wrong focus. It's not that those things are wrong, but those things shouldn't be more important than the marriage. And yet, look what has happened here. We have folks all upset and trashing other churches because of a materialistic wedding and how a church deals with it. What's important here folks? Lots of tulling and free labor? Or something else?
And for those of you who think the church OWES you free services and such back for your time and offerings: Please don't come to my church. You wouldn't like it.
_____________________________
~Kristin~
Did you ever notice there are no recipes for leftover chocolate?
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RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/6/2009 12:49:02 AM
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Ps103
Posts: 12140
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The reason this thread was started was because of a remark in another thread, where a poster (I think she posted in this thread, too) was charged $1200 for the use of her church sanctuary, $500 for the pastor to marry them and $500 for a wedding coordinator whose services she neither wanted nor needed.
Nothing was said about a fairy tale wedding like on television. Neither do I recall her saying that she attended a very large church, though she might have.
As to the church (forgot who said it) that required the services of several sound and tech people--I wouldn't want or need that. It is a religious service, not a stage production. Would I be required to pay for these services even if I did not want them? What if I wanted to bring in my own sound and lighting team--would that be allowed?
I got married in a smaller church (~150 people), but I now attend a larger church (~2000). Neither charge for marriages for parishioners. It is considered "what the church does."
I have never had an opinion about "mega churches" before, but I am forming one now. If you become so large that you cannot take care of the congregation--Baptisms, marriages and funerals--then perhaps you have crossed the line into "too big."
Just my opinion, and no one has to agree with me.
_____________________________
Fasten your seatbelts...it's going to be a bumpy night.
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RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/6/2009 7:11:48 AM
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iluvatar
Posts: 3052
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ps103
As to the church (forgot who said it) that required the services of several sound and tech people--I wouldn't want or need that. It is a religious service, not a stage production. Would I be required to pay for these services even if I did not want them?
If you didn't want any sound reinforcement or audio recording and you just wanted the house lights on full, you could probably get away without techs. If you want to use a microphone, yes, you need the sound tech. If you're in a big room where the stage is lit with theatrical lighting, you may also need the lighting tech.
quote:
What if I wanted to bring in my own sound and lighting team--would that be allowed?
Even when touring bands do this, there are still venue personnel on hand to show them around. No venue in their right mind should let in an outside engineer to fiddle with their system without a babysitter. If you're talking about bringing in your own equipment, then you probably aren't worried about the cost so much and depending on the size of the system, you might still need an electrician on hand to sign off on certain things. An electrician will cost as much as your sound & lighting techs put together.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/6/2009 8:38:30 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 6733
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ps103
I have never had an opinion about "mega churches" before, but I am forming one now. If you become so large that you cannot take care of the congregation--Baptisms, marriages and funerals--then perhaps you have crossed the line into "too big."
Just my opinion, and no one has to agree with me.
Well Ps103, I may not have to agree with you, but I certainly do.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/6/2009 8:40:37 AM
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PinkCarnations
Posts: 10810
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ps103
Just my opinion, and no one has to agree with me.
It's your practicality forces encourages us to agree with you. 
_____________________________
Thank you Veterans.
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RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/6/2009 10:18:03 AM
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myka
Posts: 978
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quote:
I got married in a smaller church (~150 people), but I now attend a larger church (~2000). Neither charge for marriages for parishioners. It is considered "what the church does."
Most of the churches that I have attended have had this kind of view. A wedding is a religious service that should be conducted with the body of believers. (yes, much like baptisms and funerals)
quote:
Running a big, busy place like kerns' church, they probably can't afford to run things in a slip-shod manner. Doing so makes things difficult for everybody involved and on a broader scale, has the potential to negatively affect their witness.
I'm not saying that it should be run in a poor manner; it should be done professionally. Charging large fees for the use of the church building to hold religious services for members can also negatively affect a church's witness.
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RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/6/2009 1:16:50 PM
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gcsmithjr
Posts: 532
Joined: 11/23/2008
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quote:
As to the church (forgot who said it) that required the services of several sound and tech people--I wouldn't want or need that. It is a religious service, not a stage production. Would I be required to pay for these services even if I did not want them? What if I wanted to bring in my own sound and lighting team--would that be allowed?
First of all, it's not several, it's one of each (plus a member of our operations team to open up the building, unlock doors, turn on lights, etc.). I realize that it's not a stage production but if you want the pastor, singers, musicians (if you have them) and scripture readers to be heard, they have to use a microphone. If you want people to be able to see, someone needs to make sure the front of the church is lit appropriately (especially since many weddings happen in the evening).
We don't allow people to bring in their own sound and lighting team for weddings anymore - we used to, but after several thousand dollars worth of damaged and missing equipment we started requiring people to use our folks and cover the cost of what we normally pay them (which averages $20 an hour).
One other thing you might consider - most weddings happen in the late afternoon/evening which means that 12 hours after the wedding we have a Sunday worship service. The sound, lighting and operations team members are responsible for getting everything set up for the wedding and putting it back the way it needs to be for the service the next morning. They typically spend many more hours doing this than they actually get paid for. When we didn't require that our folks handle these tasks we'd often showed up on Sunday morning to discover that we couldn't find microphones and cables, things like music stands had been moved (and put who knows where), candles had been allowed to burn all the way down leaving giant pools of wax on the carpet, and lights/equipment had been left on all night.
At most weddings the focus is on the bride and groom, not the clean up after the ceremony (as it should be), but when Saturday weddings started making it difficult to prepare for our normal Sunday services we decided we had to do something to make sure that the weddings, which are normally only attended by a small percentage of our congregation, weren't disruptive to our Sunday services.
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RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/6/2009 1:27:25 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 6733
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gcsmithjr
quote:
As to the church (forgot who said it) that required the services of several sound and tech people--I wouldn't want or need that. It is a religious service, not a stage production. Would I be required to pay for these services even if I did not want them? What if I wanted to bring in my own sound and lighting team--would that be allowed?
First of all, it's not several, it's one of each (plus a member of our operations team to open up the building, unlock doors, turn on lights, etc.). I realize that it's not a stage production but if you want the pastor, singers, musicians (if you have them) and scripture readers to be heard, they have to use a microphone. If you want people to be able to see, someone needs to make sure the front of the church is lit appropriately (especially since many weddings happen in the evening).
We don't allow people to bring in their own sound and lighting team for weddings anymore - we used to, but after several thousand dollars worth of damaged and missing equipment we started requiring people to use our folks and cover the cost of what we normally pay them (which averages $20 an hour).
One other thing you might consider - most weddings happen in the late afternoon/evening which means that 12 hours after the wedding we have a Sunday worship service. The sound, lighting and operations team members are responsible for getting everything set up for the wedding and putting it back the way it needs to be for the service the next morning. They typically spend many more hours doing this than they actually get paid for. When we didn't require that our folks handle these tasks we'd often showed up on Sunday morning to discover that we couldn't find microphones and cables, things like music stands had been moved (and put who knows where), candles had been allowed to burn all the way down leaving giant pools of wax on the carpet, and lights/equipment had been left on all night.
At most weddings the focus is on the bride and groom, not the clean up after the ceremony (as it should be), but when Saturday weddings started making it difficult to prepare for our normal Sunday services we decided we had to do something to make sure that the weddings, which are normally only attended by a small percentage of our congregation, weren't disruptive to our Sunday services.
My point is that of courese it cost extra monies besides the standard services; but that the Church should cover it to meet the needs of thier members.
If one of your Pators or Elders get called to the hospital or some other none regularlly scheduled event; does the Church charge for this, either by the mile or by the hour, I would certainly hope not.
There are a few one time events in the life of a Church member; Baptism, wedding, and funeral; and in my humble opinion there should be no charge for any of them.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/6/2009 1:49:35 PM
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Ps103
Posts: 12140
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: Here, now
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quote:
There are a few one time events in the life of a Church member; Baptism, wedding, and funeral; and in my humble opinion there should be no charge for any of them.
Thanks
RC
And the church said "Amen!"
_____________________________
Fasten your seatbelts...it's going to be a bumpy night.
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RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/6/2009 2:24:33 PM
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trainfan
Posts: 2363
Joined: 7/26/2007
From: The land of confusion
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quote:
There are a few one time events in the life of a Church member; Baptism, wedding, and funeral; and in my humble opinion there should be no charge for any of them.
There is a world of difference between a wedding and funeral or Baptism.
First in my experience most Baptisms take place during a chruch service requiring minimal extra work by any other staff people other than the pastor. Even if the family wants to use part of the church for a reception or dinner after the service it is not a huge deal for the staff (particularly the janitorial staff) since they would not have to clean anything specifically for the event. It is more than likely already been used by a Sunday School class or other group so has to be cleaned anyway.
Secondly in my experience funerals are much the same as a typical church service cleaning-wise that is, so don't require anyone to spend a lot of extra time cleaning up. They may have to run the vacuum around an extra time and make a quick extra check of the restrooms but that's about it. Also funerals typically take place during the week during the day as such that means the office staff is usually there anyway so no one has to come in just to let the funeral home people in.
Weddings are a whole different ball of wax. They take place on weekends so someone has to come in to let the wedding party and associated folks in and stay there until they leave or later (sometimes much later) plus do a lot of extra work to boot. If a funeral director says they will be there at noon they show up at noon not at 1 or 2PM. People at funerals (and Baptisms) don't require extra rooms to change clothes in, they don't use candles so don't spill wax, they don't have to have their hair done on site, they don't attempt to rearrange the entire church stage area, they don't have to spend hours taking pictures before or after the ceremony, they don't throw flowers, rice or birdseed or blow bubbles, they don't have mini-food fights in the rooms where they change clothes in (since they're not changing clothes), they don't attempt to smuggle in booze or smoke in the church, they use the restroom for it's intended purpose not as a place to hang out in and trash while they're there, they don't try to break into rooms that are locked and are generally much more well behaved than people at weddings.
People tend to invite a lot of people to weddings who are there to celebrate the wedding so they are on less than their best behaviour. People who come to funerals are typically in a more somber mood which means they behave and Baptisms are usually going on during church service so people tend to behave then too.
_____________________________
Disappoints are inevitable, discouragment is a choice.
Dr. Charles Stanley.
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RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/6/2009 2:35:14 PM
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pruned
Posts: 1582
Joined: 4/12/2005
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I attend a church which averages about 225 each Sunday. We probably have fewer than one member using our facility per year for a wedding. We probably have more than a dozen folks who don't attend any church inquiring about having their wedding in our sanctuary because... (in no particular order)...
* we're centrally located between two families or we're closer geographically to one family
* one or both of the wedding couple attended school in our town -- not church by the way
* someone one of them knew got married in our church once
* they need somewhere to hold their ceremony before they go to the Lodge for their reception.
* our fees are less expensive than any other church our size in town.
* our sanctuary has one center aisle.
Our church isn't opposed to having weddings for members, and as I stated the services are often provided w/o charge. But we have one on our calendar which several hundred people will be attending for an SRO crowd, none of whom attend our church. The bride and groom live on opposite sides of our nation. They will be using our fellowship hall for their reception as well. This is the kind of room with movable dividers separating Sunday School classes. Only a handful of people are trained to move the walls.
So, do I hear you folks suggesting that we not charge these people to reimburse our members for their time and service? Even when they are using our building for a wedding chapel or rental hall?
_____________________________
I owe more to the fire, and the hammer, and the file, than anything else in the Lord's workshop. -- Charles Spurgeon
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RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/6/2009 2:37:38 PM
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pruned
Posts: 1582
Joined: 4/12/2005
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If I could star trainfan's post #94, I would. Well said.
_____________________________
I owe more to the fire, and the hammer, and the file, than anything else in the Lord's workshop. -- Charles Spurgeon
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RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/6/2009 3:11:42 PM
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myka
Posts: 978
Status: offline
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quote:
There is a world of difference between a wedding and funeral or Baptism.
Only in the amount of 'perceived inconvenience' that one experiences, not in the significance of the ceremony in the life of the church member.
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RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/6/2009 3:49:51 PM
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trainfan
Posts: 2363
Joined: 7/26/2007
From: The land of confusion
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quote:
ORIGINAL: myka
quote:
There is a world of difference between a wedding and funeral or Baptism.
Only in the amount of 'perceived inconvenience' that one experiences, not in the significance of the ceremony in the life of the church member.
Wow I only had only been experiencing "perceived inconveniences" when I missed family gatherings and other events (even church events) I would rather have been at than working at the weddings at church. What an interesting concept.....must've been having one of those out of body experiences I hear about for those 5 years............but they seem pretty real to me.
_____________________________
Disappoints are inevitable, discouragment is a choice.
Dr. Charles Stanley.
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RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/6/2009 4:29:56 PM
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myka
Posts: 978
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Trainfan, I appreciate your ministry to your church -- it is one of the more underappreciated services that people do for the church. It does take a lot of work, and not a lot of people recognize that fact.
quote:
Wow I only had only been experiencing "perceived inconveniences" when I missed family gatherings and other events (even church events) I would rather have been at than working at the weddings at church. What an interesting concept.....must've been having one of those out of body experiences I hear about for those 5 years............but they seem pretty real to me.
Just because they are 'perceived' doesn't mean that they aren't 'real'. One's perceptions are very real.
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