|
|
|
|
|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/6/2009 7:12:16 PM
|
|
|
pruned
Posts: 1582
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
My official stance (subject to change): weddings for members in good standing - free. All others - charge a fee.
Just think - if we all had house churches, this wouldn't be an issue!
And so what constitutes a member "in good standing"? If we give a free wedding to Joe, shouldn't we also give one to Marsha? Marsha's a member, too. She attends, and those who know says she contributes financially. Does it matter that she's living w/her fiance? Or how about Ben. He's Deacon Rick's son and if Deacon Rick says that if anybody is going to get a free wedding in this church it is after all (maybe a little stronger than after all  ) going to be my son! Never mind Deacon Rick's son's reputation in the community and how well known he is down at County. We can't offend Deacon Rick or his family, can we?
See the problem?
We've found the wedding policy to be one of the biggest divisors in our church leadership. Is the sanctuary holy or is it just a room? I was shocked by the diversity of opinion on that one question alone.
_____________________________
I owe more to the fire, and the hammer, and the file, than anything else in the Lord's workshop. -- Charles Spurgeon
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/6/2009 7:28:11 PM
|
|
|
solo_soprano23
Posts: 2082
Joined: 4/27/2005
From: I'm a Southern girl
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: myka
quote:
There is a world of difference between a wedding and funeral or Baptism.
Only in the amount of 'perceived inconvenience' that one experiences, not in the significance of the ceremony in the life of the church member.
Yes, it's an important life event to get married. I think any of those ceremonies cause some kind of inconvenience, although I hate to say it that way because they are all celebrations ("inconvenienced" just sounds pejorative to me-- like you're troubling people because someone gets married or dies or is baptized). I can understand wanting a decent wedding; it's probably one of the only celebrations some will have like that (which is why I think some people go all out). I think weddings probably have more to clean up afterwards, out of the three. I can't imagine all weddings leave everything in ruins though.
_____________________________
For God, For Learning, Forever.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/6/2009 8:23:55 PM
|
|
|
Ps103
Posts: 12140
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: Here, now
Status: offline
|
quote:
So, do I hear you folks suggesting that we not charge these people to reimburse our members for their time and service? Even when they are using our building for a wedding chapel or rental hall?
No. I am opposed to non-members using churches as "venues."
They can use their own church, or, if they don't have one, they can find a non-church setting for their weddings.
Church weddings are for church members.
_____________________________
Fasten your seatbelts...it's going to be a bumpy night.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/6/2009 8:26:40 PM
|
|
|
trainfan
Posts: 2363
Joined: 7/26/2007
From: The land of confusion
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano23
quote:
ORIGINAL: myka
quote:
There is a world of difference between a wedding and funeral or Baptism.
Only in the amount of 'perceived inconvenience' that one experiences, not in the significance of the ceremony in the life of the church member.
Yes, it's an important life event to get married. I think any of those ceremonies cause some kind of inconvenience, although I hate to say it that way because they are all celebrations ("inconvenienced" just sounds pejorative to me-- like you're troubling people because someone gets married or dies or is baptized). I can understand wanting a decent wedding; it's probably one of the only celebrations some will have like that (which is why I think some people go all out). I think weddings probably have more to clean up afterwards, out of the three. I can't imagine all weddings leave everything in ruins though.
No not everyone left everything in ruins, the majority did leave a mess of some sort though. What I bolded in the quote is key, everyone wants a decent wedding and rightly so. But that also means they ask for and in some cases demand more things of the church, meaning whoever is there during the wedding (except the pastor who in my case delegated that to the janitors). My whole point is it is fine if the pastor wants to marry members for free and fine if the church wants to let members use the building for free. But you cannot expect everyone else to work for free be it janitors or sound and lighting techs or anyone else from the church who is involved, they have to give up at the least 4 hours of their day and sometimes a whole day for your wedding, you cannot expect people to do that for free, they have more to do in their lives than working at your wedding. What if a printer went to your church would you expect them to print invitations for free? What if it was a florist, baker or caterer should they work for free too? Where does it stop?
_____________________________
Disappoints are inevitable, discouragment is a choice.
Dr. Charles Stanley.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/6/2009 8:54:49 PM
|
|
|
myka
Posts: 978
Status: offline
|
quote:
My whole point is it is fine if the pastor wants to marry members for free and fine if the church wants to let members use the building for free. But you cannot expect everyone else to work for free be it janitors or sound and lighting techs or anyone else from the church who is involved, they have to give up at the least 4 hours of their day and sometimes a whole day for your wedding, you cannot expect people to do that for free, they have more to do in their lives than working at your wedding.
I wouldn't expect anyone to work for 'free', the church staff should be paid by the church as part of the budget of a church. The pastor doesn't usually work for 'free' either, even if they officiate the ceremony -- usually they are paid by the church.
As far as regulations about who would get 'free' weddings, I was doing some checking on one of my previous churches (it is a fairly large one, with a large facility); they have various things that they require of couples (not living together is one of the things, membership is another) who use the facilities for weddings.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/6/2009 9:09:13 PM
|
|
|
zoebob
Posts: 7966
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: land of limbo
Status: online
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: myka
quote:
My whole point is it is fine if the pastor wants to marry members for free and fine if the church wants to let members use the building for free. But you cannot expect everyone else to work for free be it janitors or sound and lighting techs or anyone else from the church who is involved, they have to give up at the least 4 hours of their day and sometimes a whole day for your wedding, you cannot expect people to do that for free, they have more to do in their lives than working at your wedding.
I wouldn't expect anyone to work for 'free', the church staff should be paid by the church as part of the budget of a church. The pastor doesn't usually work for 'free' either, even if they officiate the ceremony -- usually they are paid by the church.
Right. The church should include those costs in their budge for members. As for the church who tries to have double standards for what is a member in good standing they have bigger problems than who pays to use their facility.
quote:
What if a printer went to your church would you expect them to print invitations for free? What if it was a florist, baker or caterer should they work for free too? Where does it stop?
No, because those people don't work for the church...they just go there. However, for people who are employed by the church the church budget should cover the costs on their time for church functions by church members.
_____________________________
L-R: DD1, Ellies DS2, DD2, Ellies DS1
L-R: Ellies DD1, Ellies DD2, DS, Ellies DS3
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/6/2009 9:51:50 PM
|
|
|
ta_mosquito
Posts: 10998
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: from MN, now in Ontario :D
Status: offline
|
Thing is, not all these people (sound, lights, etc.) are on the payroll. A lot of the time, they're volunteers.
_____________________________
LibriVox: acoustical liberation of books in the public domain
(Avatar: Turkeys are all saying "Moo")
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/6/2009 10:31:26 PM
|
|
|
phosadaud
Posts: 10569
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Washington State
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ps103
The reason this thread was started was because of a remark in another thread, where a poster (I think she posted in this thread, too) was charged $1200 for the use of her church sanctuary, $500 for the pastor to marry them and $500 for a wedding coordinator whose services she neither wanted nor needed.
Nothing was said about a fairy tale wedding like on television. Neither do I recall her saying that she attended a very large church, though she might have.
I am not familiar with this other thread so I can't speak to it. I thought this thread was regarding the general idea of charging, not a specific incident?
quote:
As to the church (forgot who said it) that required the services of several sound and tech people--I wouldn't want or need that. It is a religious service, not a stage production. Would I be required to pay for these services even if I did not want them? What if I wanted to bring in my own sound and lighting team--would that be allowed?
I would imagine every church has different policies depending on different circumstances. I have a hard time making blanket statements when I don't know the reasoning each church has behind it's policies.
As far as a wedding not being a stage production: You're right. It's not. However, most weddings I have been to lately are huge stage productions. I guess maybe that's why I don't see why the church should foot the bill if someone wants a stage production verses a religious service?
quote:
I have never had an opinion about "mega churches" before, but I am forming one now. If you become so large that you cannot take care of the congregation--Baptisms, marriages and funerals--then perhaps you have crossed the line into "too big."
Large churches have to function differently and members are taken care of in different ways. I think we need to be very careful about judging another church based on how it does things in order to meet the needs of it's members. Different doesn't have to equal better or worse. I think we need to be very careful when we start down that road, KWIM? 
I mean, I know some very small churches who my church (a large church but not a mega-church) has stepped in and helped bury their dead because they can't and don't have the resources or facilities. Does that mean that the small churches are too small and have "crossed a line"? Or are we ALL a body and not just lone ranger churches?
The fact is, churches don't charge folks to get married. Churches charge folks for the whooplah they CHOOSE to surround that wedding with.
-----------------
I know, my questions didn't get answered from my last post, but I'm going to add a few more:
What does the church pay for? How much does the church pay for? The sound tech? The invitations? The candles? The flowers? The tulling? The extra chairs that had to be rented? What about the table linens for the receptions? Why? When should the couple start contributing? What are they "owed" and not owed? Where do you draw the line?
Every church out there draws lines. Are some of you really willing to judge another church you know nothing about because they draw the line at a place your church doesn't?
Is anyone else disturbed by this? Something not even in Scripture that we're willing to cast stones about and play the "my church is better than your church game"?
Seriously?
quote:
ORIGINAL: ta_mosquito
Thing is, not all these people (sound, lights, etc.) are on the payroll. A lot of the time, they're volunteers.
Yep. And when you volunteer (or even work) for a church that only has one or two weddings a year, well, that's something else entirely from a church that has weddings almost every weekend.
Of course, I could never work a wedding. They seem to turn even the sweetest people into ravenous monsters out for blood from anyone within the grasp of their claws... 
And just a hint for those who have never worked for a church: The view from that side of the fence will shock you and you will completely change how you view many things - this included. It's sad but true.  It's easy to point fingers at "the church", when in fact, the worst witness for the church is us.
_____________________________
~Kristin~
Did you ever notice there are no recipes for leftover chocolate?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/7/2009 12:39:39 AM
|
|
|
myka
Posts: 978
Status: offline
|
quote:
Large churches have to function differently and members are taken care of in different ways. I think we need to be very careful about judging another church based on how it does things in order to meet the needs of it's members. Different doesn't have to equal better or worse.
I have been a member of a mega church and smaller churches, and I have worked for both kinds as well as some others that I've not been a member of. I had a problem when I was at the mega church and did not have the same 'lifestyle' or economic status as most of the congregation because I could not be as involved as I would have liked to have been due to economic constraints. It wasn't/isn't an issue with the smaller churches, though.
quote:
What are they "owed" and not owed? Where do you draw the line?
The couple is not "owed" anything. A wedding is a ceremony where a couple makes vows before God and before the church body (who sometimes also make vows to God and to the couple).
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/7/2009 9:42:07 AM
|
|
|
Ross.Lang
Posts: 463
Joined: 1/28/2009
Status: offline
|
My church's sanctuary is the size of a Blimp Hangar. Just turning on the AC for an hour and a half is a formidable expense. Here was their fee schedule:
Members Non Members
Sanctuary: $250 $500
Wedding Coordinator: $175 $175 (Like Harvie, not sure what this was for)
Cleaning $60+$70/hr $60+$70/hr
Pastor Offering $250
Organist $275 $350
However, when we came to them wanting to get married, seeing that we were still in seminary, they waved all fees except the wedding coordinator, and only because the woman had recently been laid off. We still gave the pastor some money, and the guy that cleaned the church. It was a very compassionate way to do things.
-Ross
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/7/2009 9:48:48 AM
|
|
|
laura...
Posts: 3278
Joined: 3/1/2005
From: NE Ohio
Status: offline
|
quote:
My church's sanctuary is the size of a Blimp Hangar.
Have you ever been in a Blimp Hangar?
_____________________________
This is what the Lord says: “Stop at the crossroads and look around. Ask for the old, godly way, and walk in it. Travel its path, and you will find rest for your souls. But you reply, ‘No, that’s not the road we want!’ Jer 6:16
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/7/2009 10:21:29 AM
|
|
|
anne-girl
Posts: 1087
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Wherever I am
Status: offline
|
All this talk re paying technicians reminds me of a friend who married in an older, "downtown first church" type of church. They didn't charge her for the use of the sanctuary or request payment for the pastor, but they did charge a nominal amount (something like $50) if she wanted the bells to be rung (which would have required someone from the church onsite during the wedding who wouldn't have been required otherwise). So that's yet another kind of technician that's out there; fortunately it's completely optional.
Re the question of "where do you draw the line" regarding who is and isn't a member... I've seen that at our church. The child of a long-standing member, who stopped attending church when they were in their teens, wants to be married at that church and all of a sudden, they're going to church every week for six months before the wedding. Does that make them members? In such cases as these, I think the benefit of the doubt is wise.
As a singer, I do appreciate others who would like to be compensated for their time. Every time I am asked to sing at a wedding, it means hours of my time to learn the song, rehearse it until I think it sounds halfway decent, work with the pianist/organist, and then rehearse at the church. I am not often offered any financial compensation, even by acquaintances.  I've since learned that it's wisest to tell people up front what my fee is, explain why, and tell them that I will be waiving that fee as a wedding gift to them (unless I am not well acquainted with them). Even then, if the couple were members of my church, I would hesitate to charge them even if I didn't know them at all.
quote:
No. I am opposed to non-members using churches as "venues."
They can use their own church, or, if they don't have one, they can find a non-church setting for their weddings.
Church weddings are for church members.
I completely disagree with this. What if you go to a tiny church that seats 60, but have over 100 relatives and close friends between the two of you? In my denomination, a pastor cannot marry a couple in any place but a church (something to do with theology concerning whether a place is sacred). In your scenario, such a couple would be forced to find a pastor of a different denomination who would be willing to marry them in a non-church environment.
I would definitely expect a church to charge for use of the facilities by non-members, regardless of whether they charge anything to their own members, and I think any church should have the right to not rent out its facilities for weddings of non-members, but I think it would be a sad thing if all churches did it.
_____________________________
"Mine?"
~Finding Nemo
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/7/2009 10:27:02 AM
|
|
|
trainfan
Posts: 2363
Joined: 7/26/2007
From: The land of confusion
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: zoebob
quote:
ORIGINAL: myka
quote:
My whole point is it is fine if the pastor wants to marry members for free and fine if the church wants to let members use the building for free. But you cannot expect everyone else to work for free be it janitors or sound and lighting techs or anyone else from the church who is involved, they have to give up at the least 4 hours of their day and sometimes a whole day for your wedding, you cannot expect people to do that for free, they have more to do in their lives than working at your wedding.
I wouldn't expect anyone to work for 'free', the church staff should be paid by the church as part of the budget of a church. The pastor doesn't usually work for 'free' either, even if they officiate the ceremony -- usually they are paid by the church.
At the church where I worked the pastor did get paid extra for weddings and yes he was paid by the church I won't give a specific figure but suffice to say it would start a whole new debate.
quote:
Right. The church should include those costs in their budge for members. As for the church who tries to have double standards for what is a member in good standing they have bigger problems than who pays to use their facility.
quote:
What if a printer went to your church would you expect them to print invitations for free? What if it was a florist, baker or caterer should they work for free too? Where does it stop?
No, because those people don't work for the church...they just go there. However, for people who are employed by the church the church budget should cover the costs on their time for church functions by church members.
If your church does this that is wonderful! Not all churches work that way the one where I worked didn't. Had we been paid by the hour that may have been different but we were paid a "salary" that if broken down by hour averaged about $7.50 an hour during the summer when most programs were not in session to $3.50 an hour during the rest of the year and fell to even less on the weeks of Christmas and Easter (these figures do not include weddings). So really it was more like a volunteer position. Had we not been paid for weddings our summer salary would have been around $5.25 and during the rest of the year about $2.75 per hour.
When we were "stiffed" a few times at weddings, which I already posted about, our boss told us that was just tough luck to consider our time a contribution b/c we weren't getting paid anything extra.
_____________________________
Disappoints are inevitable, discouragment is a choice.
Dr. Charles Stanley.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/7/2009 10:33:39 AM
|
|
|
zoebob
Posts: 7966
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: land of limbo
Status: online
|
quote:
If your church does this that is wonderful! Not all churches work that way the one where I worked didn't.
True, not all churches work that way. However, I think the point many of us are trying to make is that they should work that way. THat's the way a body of Christ should behave and that's part of what a church should do for its members. If the church can't do that or won't do that then some of us believe there's something wrong.
_____________________________
L-R: DD1, Ellies DS2, DD2, Ellies DS1
L-R: Ellies DD1, Ellies DD2, DS, Ellies DS3
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/7/2009 11:01:37 AM
|
|
|
trainfan
Posts: 2363
Joined: 7/26/2007
From: The land of confusion
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: zoebob
quote:
If your church does this that is wonderful! Not all churches work that way the one where I worked didn't.
True, not all churches work that way. However, I think the point many of us are trying to make is that they should work that way. THat's the way a body of Christ should behave and that's part of what a church should do for its members. If the church can't do that or won't do that then some of us believe there's something wrong.
What if the church you attend doesn't work that way? Would you not feel obligated to pay the people for doing the work?
Having been on the other side of the fence I wouldn't think of not paying the cleaning people extra even if I wasn't required to do so.
I am also completely baffled by a wedding being called a "church function" as in the whole church is involved. Do you invite the whole church to the wedding? I have never seen that done while I was working at the church nor at any other church I attended.
_____________________________
Disappoints are inevitable, discouragment is a choice.
Dr. Charles Stanley.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/7/2009 11:08:35 AM
|
|
|
anne-girl
Posts: 1087
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Wherever I am
Status: offline
|
quote:
I am also completely baffled by a wedding being called a "church function" as in the whole church is involved. Do you invite the whole church to the wedding? I have never seen that done while I was working at the church nor at any other church I attended.
In my church, yes. Not to the dinner, but it's more or less a standing tradition to extend a verbal invitation to all the church to come to the ceremony and to tea and cake afterward (usually the women at the church run that as volunteers). We did that as well, and also gave invitations to a number of people we wanted to invite to the dance after dinner (we so could not afford to feed 200 extra guests!). Many people do take the couple up on the offer. But that's just our tradition.
_____________________________
"Mine?"
~Finding Nemo
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/7/2009 11:10:48 AM
|
|
|
Tinkerbell_
Posts: 8034
Joined: 1/25/2008
From: NeverNeverLand
Status: offline
|
When I got married it was standard practice to have a wedding invitation in with the announcements. That way the entire congregation was invited to the festivities. Where I go to church now an open invitiation is put in the bulletin. Usually only the friends of the bride and groom attend, but everyone is welcome.
_____________________________
When I've shown you that I just don't care
When I'm throwing punches in the air
When I'm broken down and I can't stand
Will you be strong enough to be my man?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/7/2009 11:15:40 AM
|
|
|
zoebob
Posts: 7966
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: land of limbo
Status: online
|
quote:
What if the church you attend doesn't work that way? Would you not feel obligated to pay the people for doing the work?
I would not attend a church like that. If it had to function like that it would be a sign of other things that I didn't think were right in a church. I am not begrudging a reasonable cost (a couple hundred maybe) but not $100's or even $1000's. Although in general the use of the building should be free to members. An honorarium to the pastor/musicians is one thing. However, I do think a local church should be such that we are willing to serve each other in cleaning after a wedding/etc. If a church is so large that it is having several weddings each weekend scheduled then I would not be at that church anyway because it would probably not be functioning like a church should.
_____________________________
L-R: DD1, Ellies DS2, DD2, Ellies DS1
L-R: Ellies DD1, Ellies DD2, DS, Ellies DS3
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/7/2009 12:27:22 PM
|
|
|
GregandJenny
Posts: 664
Joined: 2/16/2006
From: Near Seattle Washington
Status: offline
|
The problem is that there are at least 2 kinds of weddings.
1. there are the simple weddings, it doesn't take a lot to put together, the bride and groom aren't demanding. The church as it is is adequate and it doesn't take a lot of time or resources.
2. The you have very complicated weddings. The people don't like the arrangement or seating in the sanctuary, so that has to be moved. The stage has to be emptied and the isles haver to be changed. The wedding is at 4 pm but they need in the church at 530.
The lighting has to be just perfect and the sound has to be just perfect. The wedding is gonna last 2 hours because everyone and their mom is involved which means the rehearsal will last at least 3 hours if not more.
The mom of the bride is demanding...
Well i think you get the picture, it's not like these weddings any more are simple. I think through the years people probably have abused the churches. People didn't much as say thank you for those that busted their butts getting their wedding together, and working hard.
It seems that many weddings aren't about the commitment to each other but a show of extravagance.
Maybe we need to be simpler people. If people want "free" then they need to understand this is what you get and maybe the compromise here is that the church will just have that out lined. And if yuo want the extravagance then you will certainly pay.
GH
_____________________________
It does not have to be well with my circumstance to be well with my soul!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Churches / pastors charging $$$ for weddings? - 7/7/2009 12:39:37 PM
|
|
|
solo_soprano23
Posts: 2082
Joined: 4/27/2005
From: I'm a Southern girl
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: trainfan
quote:
ORIGINAL: zoebob
quote:
If your church does this that is wonderful! Not all churches work that way the one where I worked didn't.
True, not all churches work that way. However, I think the point many of us are trying to make is that they should work that way. THat's the way a body of Christ should behave and that's part of what a church should do for its members. If the church can't do that or won't do that then some of us believe there's something wrong.
What if the church you attend doesn't work that way? Would you not feel obligated to pay the people for doing the work?
Having been on the other side of the fence I wouldn't think of not paying the cleaning people extra even if I wasn't required to do so.
I am also completely baffled by a wedding being called a "church function" as in the whole church is involved. Do you invite the whole church to the wedding? I have never seen that done while I was working at the church nor at any other church I attended.
At my old church, the entire congregation was invited. The couples still sent out invitations usually, but the church always knew and had the option to come. I've seen couples in the "mega" church I go to now do the same thing, but I think they help with cost of reception food, since the church is so large and many extra people probably show. The couple doesn't have to invite everyone like that, but we're more like a family, even if we don't all know each other. Most of them I see announce it to the church and invite all. If they want it to be family/friends, they don't have to announce it like that.
_____________________________
For God, For Learning, Forever.
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
