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What do you think of a pastor... - 6/26/2009 2:32:05 PM
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sparrowlover
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that will perform marriages but not do premarital counseling? My son is getting married in Dec. He and his fiance' have been in school for several years and so do not feel close enough to the pastors of the churches they have attended in their college towns. I guess typically the girl should have first choice of a pastor so the kids went to the pastor of the church her parents joined after she went away to college and asked if he would marry them and that was his reply. He said he's not a counselor. I think that is really odd. Shouldn't all pastors be equipped to do counseling? Especially simple premarital? I can understand if he did not want to deal with a really sticky situation involving adultery, rape or incest. He has been a pastor at several churches and speaks at conferences and is probably in his early to mid forties. Son says they are considering seeking counseling from someone else and still having him marry them. Wouldn't that seem weird to the counselor if he wasn't asked to perform marriage? I am encouraging son to ask a former youth pastor that we have stayed in touch with since son graduated from HS 4 years ago.
Thanks,
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RE: What do you think of a pastor... - 6/26/2009 2:48:11 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 6733
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sparrowlover
that will perform marriages but not do premarital counseling? My son is getting married in Dec. He and his fiance' have been in school for several years and so do not feel close enough to the pastors of the churches they have attended in their college towns. I guess typically the girl should have first choice of a pastor so the kids went to the pastor of the church her parents joined after she went away to college and asked if he would marry them and that was his reply. He said he's not a counselor. I think that is really odd. Shouldn't all pastors be equipped to do counseling? Especially simple premarital? I can understand if he did not want to deal with a really sticky situation involving adultery, rape or incest. He has been a pastor at several churches and speaks at conferences and is probably in his early to mid forties. Son says they are considering seeking counseling from someone else and still having him marry them. Wouldn't that seem weird to the counselor if he wasn't asked to perform marriage? I am encouraging son to ask a former youth pastor that we have stayed in touch with since son graduated from HS 4 years ago.
Thanks,
I personally take great exception with ministers who will not give pre-marital counseling.
I require a minimum of 40 hours total (20 with each person, 10 hours apeice individually), and more if I think it is necessary.
We cover the whole gauntlet of issues, nothing is taboo.
Thanks
RC
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Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
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RE: What do you think of a pastor... - 6/26/2009 3:46:53 PM
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slushie
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The pastors in my church have all undergone training for counseling. After all counseling is a huge part of ministry. This seems strange to me.
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RE: What do you think of a pastor... - 6/26/2009 9:46:56 PM
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ironsharpensiron
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A portion of a pastor's duty is in the counseling arena. Seems very odd he would not take premarital counseling in a serious light. Did he offer any real explanations other than 'he doesn't counsel?' Is he perhaps paranoid of lawsuits?
Matthew
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RE: What do you think of a pastor... - 6/26/2009 10:15:04 PM
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rawr.ben
Posts: 2731
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Above and beyond just him not doing the counseling personally, it puzzles me that he would perform a marriage on a couple that didn't do counseling from anyone else, either.
That's just . . . lazy pastoring.
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RE: What do you think of a pastor... - 6/27/2009 5:42:48 PM
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buckifn
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No. it isn't odd....I know many pastor's who are not trained to offer counseling...and I know several more who may as well have not been......sometimes they do more harm than good.
If I were you I would be glad he said no because he is at least acknowledging his limitations.
I think premarital counseling should be a requirement for all couples.
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RE: What do you think of a pastor... - 6/27/2009 10:29:55 PM
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TMeeks
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While I think it a bit strange, we have to remember we ARE in the age of litigation and pastors have been targets of mal-practice. This pastor may know one. While few get far, they tend to separate out the counseling as a 'secular service'.
He has no experience with either your son or the daughter and little experience with her parents since they joined his church AFTER she left home for college.
But, at the very least, he should be able to refer them to a qualified counselor. The fact that he apparently didn't even do that makes me a bit leary of his overall philosphical base.
For what it's worth, here is a brief on the subject.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3968/is_200001/ai_n8884548/
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RE: What do you think of a pastor... - 6/28/2009 1:18:23 AM
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rawr.ben
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TMeeks
While I think it a bit strange, we have to remember we ARE in the age of litigation and pastors have been targets of mal-practice.
We are also in an age of malpractice insurance . . . there are no excuses.
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RE: What do you think of a pastor... - 6/28/2009 1:36:28 AM
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myka
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I don't think that it 'odd'. It is actually becoming more common as a trend. Many pastors are not trained in premarital counseling (which is more complicated than one might think), and many states are requiring some premarital counseling -- or strongly encouraging it. It would surprise me if the pastor did not refer them for premarital counseling with a trained person (either another pastoral counselor or other counselor).
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RE: What do you think of a pastor... - 6/28/2009 1:55:03 AM
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Corne
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Premarital counseling has not always been the norm. Strangely in these last few decades as it has become the norm, Christian divorce has gone UP.
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RE: What do you think of a pastor... - 6/28/2009 3:28:27 AM
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rawr.ben
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
Premarital counseling has not always been the norm. Strangely in these last few decades as it has become the norm, Christian divorce has gone UP.
So, what's the solution? Start counseling better, or stop all together?
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RE: What do you think of a pastor... - 6/28/2009 11:58:02 AM
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buckifn
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With the legalization of gay marriages I am sure more and more pastor's will prob. defer counseling to someone else.
There is no such thing as "christian divorce"
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RE: What do you think of a pastor... - 6/28/2009 11:59:50 AM
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Corne
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rawr.ben
quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
Premarital counseling has not always been the norm. Strangely in these last few decades as it has become the norm, Christian divorce has gone UP.
So, what's the solution? Start counseling better, or stop all together?
Simply stating an observation and an oddity.
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RE: What do you think of a pastor... - 6/28/2009 2:37:26 PM
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rawr.ben
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
Simply stating an observation and an oddity.
That's fine. I agree with your observation. I meant the question in a serious manner. I personally do not know what to do to help fix the problem and am open to suggestions.
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RE: What do you think of a pastor... - 6/28/2009 4:40:32 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 6733
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
quote:
ORIGINAL: rawr.ben
quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
Premarital counseling has not always been the norm. Strangely in these last few decades as it has become the norm, Christian divorce has gone UP.
So, what's the solution? Start counseling better, or stop all together?
Simply stating an observation and an oddity.
Could you please give some reference to your observation, especially in the area of the frequency of premarital counseling by Christian Pastors?
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: What do you think of a pastor... - 6/28/2009 5:28:00 PM
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TheTartanTammy
Posts: 811
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What is marriage? Is our understanding biblical or cultural? There must be many different views of marriage for Christians around the globe depending on their cultural experience!
The point that I am driving at is; what biblical foundation do we find in the bible for pre-marital counselling? Were Adam & Eve counselled, or Abram & Sarai, or how about the various apostles and disciples from the NT?
I have no doubt that pastors should have something to say to couples who intend to marry in a Christian context, but I also believe that marraige is a creation ordination. It is God's will that men and women are joined together in marital commitment, rather than not.
As for intensive pre-marital courses, I am not so sure. God has given each human being a conscience, and has written His laws on our hearts, saved and unsaved. He has also given many godly examples of Christian marriage for us to emulate.
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RE: What do you think of a pastor... - 6/28/2009 5:32:52 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 6733
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TheTartanTammy
What is marriage? Is our understanding biblical or cultural? There must be many different views of marriage for Christians around the globe depending on their cultural experience!
The point that I am driving at is; what biblical foundation do we find in the bible for pre-marital counselling? Were Adam & Eve counselled, or Abram & Sarai, or how about the various apostles and disciples from the NT?
I have no doubt that pastors should have something to say to couples who intend to marry in a Christian context, but I also believe that marraige is a creation ordination. It is God's will that men and women are joined together in marital commitment, rather than not.
As for intensive pre-marital courses, I am not so sure. God has given each human being a conscience, and has written His laws on our hearts, saved and unsaved. He has also given many godly examples of Christian marriage for us to emulate.
So would would marry any couple that had an "Itch", even a Christian to a non-Christian?
And all this without any Scriptural advice (Conseling)?
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: What do you think of a pastor... - 6/28/2009 5:35:56 PM
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TheTartanTammy
Posts: 811
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From: North Britain!!!!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: TheTartanTammy
What is marriage? Is our understanding biblical or cultural? There must be many different views of marriage for Christians around the globe depending on their cultural experience!
The point that I am driving at is; what biblical foundation do we find in the bible for pre-marital counselling? Were Adam & Eve counselled, or Abram & Sarai, or how about the various apostles and disciples from the NT?
I have no doubt that pastors should have something to say to couples who intend to marry in a Christian context, but I also believe that marraige is a creation ordination. It is God's will that men and women are joined together in marital commitment, rather than not.
As for intensive pre-marital courses, I am not so sure. God has given each human being a conscience, and has written His laws on our hearts, saved and unsaved. He has also given many godly examples of Christian marriage for us to emulate.
So would would marry any couple that had an "Itch", even a Christian to a non-Christian?
And all tis without any Scriptural advice (Conseling)?
Thanks
RC
As usual you seem to have gone off at the deep end, why not read my post again, and then answer the questions for yourself. I'll let you know if you were right.
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TheTartanTammy
Isa 40: 11
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RE: What do you think of a pastor... - 6/28/2009 5:52:59 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 6733
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TheTartanTammy
As usual you seem to have gone off at the deep end, why not read my post again, and then answer the questions for yourself. I'll let you know if you were right.
And why do you just not answer the quistion I posed to you from your previous post?
quote:
So would would marry any couple that had an "Itch", even a Christian to a non-Christian?
And all tis without any Scriptural advice (Conseling)?
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: What do you think of a pastor... - 6/28/2009 6:27:44 PM
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still4gvn
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IMO, there is no point in doing a Christian marriage for someone who's not a Christian. But I'm not a pastor or anything. Perhaps the best thing would be to totally separate legal contract from religious contract. Then anyone could write the contract of their choice (like some pre-nuptial agreements). Pastors could limit church marriage to those couples who showed up with an appropriate binding legal contract and some evidence of caring about following Jesus. Of course, that might put a couple of Las Vegas reverends out of business.
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RE: What do you think of a pastor... - 6/29/2009 2:22:57 AM
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TheTartanTammy
Posts: 811
Joined: 12/2/2008
From: North Britain!!!!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: TheTartanTammy
As usual you seem to have gone off at the deep end, why not read my post again, and then answer the questions for yourself. I'll let you know if you were right.
And why do you just not answer the quistion I posed to you from your previous post?
quote:
So would would marry any couple that had an "Itch", even a Christian to a non-Christian?
And all tis without any Scriptural advice (Conseling)?
Thanks
RC
OK! Here goes...yes I would offer spiritual advice to anyone wanting to marry. Yes, I would counsel a Christian who wanted to marry a non-Christian, allowing them to take responsibility for the decision after I had counselled them, which means that if they still wanted to go ahead with the marraige that yes I would happily marry them in the eyes of God believing marriage to be His will for men and women.
I do believe that pastors are there to do God's will and not get in the way of it.
Hope that answers your questions.
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Isa 40: 11
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RE: What do you think of a pastor... - 6/29/2009 9:16:50 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 6733
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TheTartanTammy
OK! Here goes...yes I would offer spiritual advice to anyone wanting to marry. Yes, I would counsel a Christian who wanted to marry a non-Christian, allowing them to take responsibility for the decision after I had counselled them, which means that if they still wanted to go ahead with the marraige that yes I would happily marry them in the eyes of God believing marriage to be His will for men and women.
I do believe that pastors are there to do God's will and not get in the way of it.
Hope that answers your questions.
So you would consider it God's will for an ubeliever and a believer to by yoked?
(2Co 6:14) Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
I humbly disagree with that and do take another stance; I and will not marry an unbeliever to a Believer.
But that just might be me.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: What do you think of a pastor... - 6/29/2009 9:21:44 AM
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TheTartanTammy
Posts: 811
Joined: 12/2/2008
From: North Britain!!!!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: TheTartanTammy
OK! Here goes...yes I would offer spiritual advice to anyone wanting to marry. Yes, I would counsel a Christian who wanted to marry a non-Christian, allowing them to take responsibility for the decision after I had counselled them, which means that if they still wanted to go ahead with the marraige that yes I would happily marry them in the eyes of God believing marriage to be His will for men and women.
I do believe that pastors are there to do God's will and not get in the way of it.
Hope that answers your questions.
So you would consider it God's will for an ubeliever and a believer to by yoked?
(2Co 6:14) Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
I humbly disagree with that and do take another stance; I and will not marry an unbeliever to a Believer.
But that just might be me.
Thanks
RC
I believe that God has given all human beings free will, and providing that I point out (through God's word) my concerns, I feel it right to allow people to excercise their God given free will.
Who am I to stand in the way of love? And anyway, who is to say that the unbeliever won't come to Christ as a result of the marriage?
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TheTartanTammy
Isa 40: 11
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RE: What do you think of a pastor... - 6/29/2009 12:54:48 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 6733
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TheTartanTammy
I believe that God has given all human beings free will, and providing that I point out (through God's word) my concerns, I feel it right to allow people to excercise their God given free will.
Who am I to stand in the way of love? And anyway, who is to say that the unbeliever won't come to Christ as a result of the marriage?
That is fine TartanTammy that you feel that way, I am not condemning you; only saying that as for me I will not bless marriage union that God forbids with the Scripture I posted earlier.
You are correct that we all have free will and I will excersice that will to do what I fully believe Scripture dictates about being yoiked, and being married is the ultimate expression of being yoked.
Thaanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: What do you think of a pastor... - 6/29/2009 12:57:23 PM
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rawr.ben
Posts: 2731
Joined: 5/16/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TheTartanTammy
Who am I to stand in the way of love? And anyway, who is to say that the unbeliever won't come to Christ as a result of the marriage?
Who are you to say that the believer won't become apostate for being unequally yoked and disobeying the very clear Word of God?
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