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[Poll]
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Is pornography really adultery?
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| yes it is adultery- I am not married. |
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| no it is not adultery- I am not married |
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| yes it is- I am married/have used pornography |
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| no it isn't- married/ have used pornography |
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| yes it is- married/ neither have used pornography |
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| no it isn't- married/neither have used pornography |
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| yes it is- married/ spouse has used pornography |
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| no it isn't-married/spouse has used pornography |
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| other |
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Total Votes : 50
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(last vote on : 9/7/2009 10:28:41 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: Is pornography really adultery? - 6/27/2009 10:08:48 AM
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Zhi
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quote:
In their hearts they are the same, there is no difference.
And is there a difference between someone who takes a single look at a woman in a lustful manner, and a person who has sex with a woman who is not his wife?
Edit: I guess my problem with the strict interpretation some people are trying to take here is that I find it highly unlikely that Jesus' intention in saying that was to give everyone a "get a divorce free" card.
< Message edited by Zhi -- 6/27/2009 10:20:33 AM >
_____________________________
The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: Is pornography really adultery? - 6/27/2009 10:22:02 AM
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armywifey
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Yes, but i wouldn't be as hurt or threaten divorce, the same way i would if he would have physically cheated. Something else many don't talk about is fantasies between both men and women while lovemaking. I have heard of Christians admitting to this, and it's also just as bad.
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RE: Is pornography really adultery? - 6/27/2009 10:36:55 AM
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p31mom
Posts: 23
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Zhi
quote:
In their hearts they are the same, there is no difference.
And is there a difference between someone who takes a single look at a woman in a lustful manner, and a person who has sex with a woman who is not his wife?
Edit: I guess my problem with the strict interpretation some people are trying to take here is that I find it highly unlikely that Jesus' intention in saying that was to give everyone a "get a divorce free" card.
I don't see it as a "get a divorce free card" for the spouse being cheated on
I see it as a "take your marriage vows as seriously as you are supposed to card....you are ruining your marriage and family card," for the cheating spouse.
When we as Christians take adultery and sexual immorality as seriously as we should, then the divorce rates will decline imo. When a spouse recognizes that they are actually committing adultery (and think about the consequences that could result), I think a lot of people would think twice.
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RE: Is pornography really adultery? - 6/27/2009 10:57:00 AM
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Zhi
Posts: 1037
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I find porn addiction to be more akin to alcoholism or drug addiction than adultery, in all practicality.
_____________________________
The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: Is pornography really adultery? - 6/27/2009 11:09:54 AM
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p31mom
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Zhi
I find porn addiction to be more akin to alcoholism or drug addiction than adultery, in all practicality.
I agree that many find it addicting. Alcoholics and Drug addicts often times lose their marriages as a result of their addictions as well. That is one of the many reasons why we have to take it so seriously. No one should even begin to dabble in it.
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RE: Is pornography really adultery? - 6/27/2009 2:16:40 PM
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Zhi
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I'm not saying it shouldn't be taken seriously, I'm just saying there's a quantitative difference between having a passing lustful thought, viewing porn, and actually going out and having sex with another woman.
_____________________________
The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: Is pornography really adultery? - 6/27/2009 2:24:48 PM
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BlessedMamaofmany
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Zhi
I'm not saying it shouldn't be taken seriously, I'm just saying there's a quantitative difference between having a passing lustful thought, viewing porn, and actually going out and having sex with another woman.
I respectfully disagree with that statement. The lust, physical pleasure and fantasizing involved in viewing porn is VERY much like actually having sex with another. *I did not say it was the same...but very much alike* I don't think the difference is as big as some think.
_____________________________
Atheism: The belief that there was nothing, nothing happened to nothing, then nothing magically exploded for no reason, creating everything, then a bunch of everything magically rearranged itself into self-replicating bits that then turned into dinosaurs
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RE: Is pornography really adultery? - 6/27/2009 2:49:07 PM
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Hislittleone
Posts: 681
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From: The South
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quote:
Zhi: I find it highly unlikely that Jesus' intention in saying that was to give everyone a "get a divorce free" card.
I agree with you here. I don't view it as Him giving everyone a "get a divorce free" card. I view it like p31mom does:
quote:
I see it as a "take your marriage vows as seriously as you are supposed to card....you are ruining your marriage and family card," for the cheating spouse.
I think Jesus' intention was to teach us that sin begins in the heart as a thought and that's where it needs to be stopped. He was letting us know that He doesn't just look at outward actions (what we do) but also looks at the condition of our hearts.
I don't necessarily advocate immediate separation or divorce if a woman finds out her spouse is into porn. But if he is living a continuous life-style of lusting after other women and refuses to be corrected then she might need to seriously contemplate separation. It's a process though.
quote:
Zhi: And is there a difference between someone who takes a single look at a woman in a lustful manner, and a person who has sex with a woman who is not his wife?
Same thing as your last question.... If someone is lusting in their hearts they are sinning. Whether they go and have sex with the woman or just think about her when they are with their wife or by themselves they have sinned against God and their wife. They have broken their marriage covenant.
Now, if you're asking whether their is a difference between someone who took one single lustful look at a woman in his lifetime but then repented, I'd say there is a difference because the man who had sex with a woman put a lot more time and energy into what he did. Men who use porn likewise spend time and energy seeking it out. It usually doesn't just pop up on the computer screen or just fall into your lap. It's a process and during each step of the process they have the chance to stop.
-Think about getting in the car to go to the Adult Video Store. Could stop there. Get into the car and drive. Could stop there. Pull into the drive of the store. Could stop there. Go into the store. Could stop there.
-Think about getting on the computer to look at racy images for a thrill. Could stop there. Sit down at the computer. Could stop there. Open up internet. Could stop there.
or
-Sees woman has lustful thought. Stops there. Repents. And never does it again.
Big difference.
Like I (and Deermousie?) have stated, there is a big difference between someone who is in the process of sanctification and mess up once but then repent and someone who chooses to continually live in sin (whether it's fantasizing or physically having sex with someone else).
Lusting after someone other than your spouse in any way, shape, or form is adultery for both men and women. Jesus told us not to do it. So as a Christian I choose not to do it. Pretty simple. Maybe not easy but Jesus didn't tell us to not sin only if it's easy for us to avoid.
_____________________________
Galations 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
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RE: Is pornography really adultery? - 6/27/2009 2:53:05 PM
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20william09
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I think it is actually almost exactly the same. Sin starts in the heart and whether lust that starts in the heart results in porn usage/masturbation or actual physical adultery it is almost exactly the same. I grew up looking at porn, looked at it my entire life, got married and didn't understand why my wife was hurt that I looked at porn. It was just visual stimulation, it didn't mean anything after all. Well, it did to her and though I have become a Christian since then along with my wife, I still struggle in secret with wanting to look at porn and every now and then I fail. My wife is still struggling with body image issues as a result of knowing that I looked at porn. Porn is a tool of the devil to convince men that there wives are not what they are supposed to be...in my opinion.
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RE: Is pornography really adultery? - 6/27/2009 3:50:17 PM
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Katie51
Posts: 227
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Every action starts with a thought. Porn has lead many to eventually act out on the sexual immorality when it no longer produces the sexual "high" they are seeking. So many marriages and lives destroyed. Of course its adultery. Its a terrible thing that demolishes homes, women, men, and children.
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RE: Is pornography really adultery? - 6/27/2009 4:20:01 PM
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Beth67
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 20william09
My wife is still struggling with body image issues as a result of knowing that I looked at porn.
I know what this is like. I never change in front of my husband, won't let him in the bathroom when I'm showering, and am very self-conscious around him even when I am dressed. And this is all greatly due to his porn usage. A husband's use of porn hurts a wife very deeply. It does not promote oneness, and as a result, the marriage suffers. It's like living with an ongoing affair.
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RE: Is pornography really adultery? - 6/27/2009 4:27:36 PM
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Isaiah331516
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Matthew 5
27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
What does Jesus say about it? when we start slacking on this, we are compromising. God is not slack; neither does He like the lukewarm.
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RE: Is pornography really adultery? - 6/28/2009 12:21:41 PM
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April-1234
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Yes it is adultry. That is how I feel. My husband has paid a lot of money to view porn on the computer. It really hurts. I feel that viewing nude women while masterbating IS having sex with another woman. At least he is making love to pictures. You see to me I feel that he is going outside our marriage to have his sexual needs met. Now if that isn't adultry than I don't know what is. You see the women in those pictures are real people. Now I am 32 years old and I have ZERO self esteem. I feel ugly. I feel like I would love to have a lot of plastic surgery to make myself look good. My husband has repented and quit the porn. But I am so insecure. Now we go out in public and some woman walks by with boobs hanging out it makes me wonder if he is looking. Porn is very hurtful. Very hurtful. It is a virtual affair.
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RE: Is pornography really adultery? - 6/28/2009 1:21:41 PM
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Child4Jesus
Posts: 426
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Zhi
Mmm.
I'm finding it interesting that even in the OP, people are already caveating away... R movies don't count, it doesn't really count if you're struggling against it, it may not count if you don't climax, etc. Jesus didn't really specify whether the thought was "fleeting" or not.
So I'll throw another wrench in. What about women who read smutty romance novels, or fantasize about attractive actors/singers/models?
And, perhaps more importantly... Do you really think Jesus basically gave permission to anyone to divorce their spouse if their spouse so much as had a single lustful thought?
The part I bold is the part I wanted to address. But... First...
Let be address something that people have been saying. Yes it is true that all sin is the same in that they are sin. However that I challenge the idea that God sees someone murdering another person and someone taking the extra candy bar then fell from the dispenser the same. The gravity of these acts are very very different. Otherwise God would have had the same exact punishment for peoples sin under Jewish Theocracy. Even Jesus said that some will have few lashes while others will have more.
It should also be clear that to any logically thinking person that having a lustful thought about someone and actually having sex with someone not our husband or wife is in no way the same act. It is not the same gravity. Jesus certainly did not give permission to divorce someone if they confess having a lustful thought about ______________. Or if someone struggles with porn or going to hooters and the like. Why it is not clear that it is the physical act, I'm not sure. Even then God calls for reconciliation.
_____________________________
In Christ,
Richad
The greatest heresy to American Christianity is that if you ask Jesus to come into your heart, he definitely will.
Paul Washer
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RE: Is pornography really adultery? - 6/28/2009 2:33:51 PM
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Zhi
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Understand that I've had to deal with this with my own husband, so I do know how some of you feel. But, I can tell you honestly, I would have a much more difficult time if he had actually had sex with other women as opposed to using porn. Some of that is due to the fact that actual sex with another woman would most likely involve a two way relationship and emotional ties that just aren't there with porn, and the possibility for disease. The downside of porn is that it's way more accessible even when you go to great lengths to try not to, and the fact that the nature of the addiction is such that it takes most men a while to get through it. Besides, a guy can't even open a newspaper or an ad circular without seeing women in their undies. I know that there is more to me than my body, though, and I've always valued my mind far more than my looks, so maybe that's why I would be much more hurt by something that's two-way.
Yes, porn is a horrible thing and sinful and so forth, but I think to call it full blown adultery, especially when the man in question is working hard to get over that addiction, is, in my opinion, overkill.
Incidentally, the women in those pictures ARE NOT real women. They've been airbrushed, specially lighted, digitally enhanced, the whole nine yards. *shrug*
_____________________________
The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: Is pornography really adultery? - 6/28/2009 4:16:25 PM
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Hislittleone
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You're right that when a man is physically involved with another woman you have to worry about pregnancy, disease etc. But to me it's no less hurtful. I've been cheated on both ways (not by my husband...he was into porn/lustful thoughts) and it hurts the same. In all the years that I've been a member of different websites that are support groups for this type of stuff I've never heard a wife say that it doesn't hurt as bad to be cheated on with porn. I've never seen a wife who isn't extremely hurt by this.
My husband had a favorite porn star that he would specifically look for. He got sexual gratification from looking at her while rejecting me. In my book that's cheating. I gave him chance after chance to change. He lied to me again and again. We went in circles for years. I would think he had stopped then I'd find out 6 months to a year later that he'd been lying to me the whole time. So at this point if he were to tell me, "I'm addicted and just can't help it" I'd tell him that I'm a Christian and can't live with him while he's CHOOSING to live a sinful, sexually immoral lifestyle. Thankfully he's a changed man now. And the change is evident in every area of his life. He is much more mature in his walk with God, he had become the spiritual leader in our home, he is more happy, and a much better father and husband.
Porn (even just a little bit of it) affects every area of a Christian man's life. And it may not be evident how much it affects him until he is truly free from it.
Not all porn is airbrushed. And those women are real people. They are someone's mother, sister, or daughter. It's a picture of a real person. When a Christian man looks at porn he is helping another person to sin. Jesus said not to do that. Jesus said that looking at a woman lustfully is the same as committing adultery. It's very clearly stated in Scripture.
Matthew 5:27(AU) "You have heard that it was said,(AV) 'You shall not commit adultery.' 28But I say to you that(AW) everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29(AX) If your right eye(AY) causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into(AZ) hell. 30(BA) And if your right hand(BB) causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into(BC) hell.----taken from biblegateway.com bolded parted added by me.
Some people believe that Jesus was referring to looking at porn (or any lustful image) and masturbation when He mentions the "eye" and "hand". Interesting thought....... It's quite apparent that we, as Christians, are to take the sin of lust very seriously and are to avoid it at all costs.
What others have said is true. We need to quit candy-coating this sin and begin taking it more seriously. We need to quit enabling our brothers (and sisters) in this sin.
_____________________________
Galations 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
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RE: Is pornography really adultery? - 6/28/2009 7:31:35 PM
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LoyalFriend
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It is what Jesus said it is!
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RE: Is pornography really adultery? - 6/28/2009 7:46:26 PM
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buckifn
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No it isn't. It is an addiction. An addiction that can be overcome.
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RE: Is pornography really adultery? - 6/28/2009 7:50:20 PM
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IwillseekHim
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Yes it is adultery. It's also a billion dollar industry that is thriving today. satan must be mighty proud of all the people who sugar coat it with ideas that porn is not the same as adultery.
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RE: Is pornography really adultery? - 6/28/2009 7:52:23 PM
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rawr.ben
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I don't see how having a lustful thought and actually going out and having sex with a woman is the same "heart issue."
I think a drastic step has to be taken to go from that look and thought into an action.
I am guilty of peeking at a cute girl, but have never considered running over and groping her.
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rawr.ben
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RE: Is pornography really adultery? - 6/28/2009 8:13:00 PM
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Corne
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Porn is adultery before God in the sense that you are just as impure, sinful as if you had committed actual adultery. I do not think it's the same in the context of marriage covenant. I believe it poisons it, weakens it, harms it but does not in itself break the covenant, or qualify as a get out of marriage free card.
There is NO WAY I would see porn indulgence in my spouse the same way as an actual relationship/encounter.
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RE: Is pornography really adultery? - 6/28/2009 8:17:34 PM
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Zhi
Posts: 1037
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quote:
You're right that when a man is physically involved with another woman you have to worry about pregnancy, disease etc. But to me it's no less hurtful. I've been cheated on both ways (not by my husband...he was into porn/lustful thoughts) and it hurts the same. In all the years that I've been a member of different websites that are support groups for this type of stuff I've never heard a wife say that it doesn't hurt as bad to be cheated on with porn. I've never seen a wife who isn't extremely hurt by this.
Okay, well, I guess now you have.
I don't really know what to tell you.
I suppose that those who don't think it's the end of the world don't go out to find support sites for it, because it wouldn't really occur to them to look for one. I didn't realize there were any. It's something that he struggled with before he met me, so I realize it has nothing to do with me. It's an addiction, and I don't take it personally any more than I would take, say, alcoholism or compulsive gambling personally. Yes, it's a terrible thing, but as it's something he does recognize as a sin, and is actively trying to purge from his life, I'm pretty much okay with it and doing my best to help him through it.
_____________________________
The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: Is pornography really adultery? - 6/28/2009 9:23:05 PM
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karlie
Posts: 9126
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From: Central California
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I most definitely believe pornography is adultery and it would not be tolerated in my home any more than an extramarital affair would be. True, you may not have to worry about disease and pregnancy or an emotional bond with porn as you do with an actual physical affair, but it is every bit as damaging to self esteem, intimacy, and trust in a marriage. When you spend the sexual energy and thoughts on someone else(real or imagined) that rightfully belong to your spouse, you are taking something very sacred away from the marriage relationship and giving it away to someone(or something) else. That is being unfaithful and most certainly not what God intended for marriage.
Our vows were to forsake ALL others, and my husband and I took that to mean real or images.
_____________________________
When we're at the end of ourselves, that's the place where God truly is.
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RE: Is pornography really adultery? - 6/28/2009 9:49:51 PM
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pruned
Posts: 1582
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quote:
Incidentally, the women in those pictures ARE NOT real women. They've been airbrushed, specially lighted, digitally enhanced, the whole nine yards. *shrug*
You're right. Some of them are men, boys, children, and babies. And many of them are real people who are being used and abused. And some are animals - and less you misunderstand I mean the four footed furry kind.
quote:
ORIGINAL: karlie
I most definitely believe pornography is adultery and it would not be tolerated in my home any more than an extramarital affair would be. True, you may not have to worry about disease and pregnancy or an emotional bond with porn as you do with an actual physical affair, but it is every bit as damaging to self esteem, intimacy, and trust in a marriage. When you spend the sexual energy and thoughts on someone else(real or imagined) that rightfully belong to your spouse, you are taking something very sacred away from the marriage relationship and giving it away to someone(or something) else. That is being unfaithful and most certainly not what God intended for marriage.
Our vows were to forsake ALL others, and my husband and I took that to mean real or images.
Excellent post, karlie.
_____________________________
I owe more to the fire, and the hammer, and the file, than anything else in the Lord's workshop. -- Charles Spurgeon
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RE: Is pornography really adultery? - 6/29/2009 4:52:54 AM
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Hislittleone
Posts: 681
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From: The South
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quote:
Karlie: When you spend the sexual energy and thoughts on someone else(real or imagined) that rightfully belong to your spouse, you are taking something very sacred away from the marriage relationship and giving it away to someone(or something) else. That is being unfaithful and most certainly not what God intended for marriage.
Very well said! Our sexuality is supposed to belong to our spouses and them only. When we give any part of that away we are committing adultery.
And as far as I can see there's no half-way wrong about it. It's sin. We are told not to do it. Jesus said it's committing adultery in your heart. There's just no way I can see it as being "not that bad".
I'd like to amend what I said in my post #41. I said I'd never come across a wife who wasn't hurt by her husband looking at porn but that's not quite right. I got to a point in my life where I became sort of callouse about the whole porn issue. My heart hardened and I began living a rebellious life-style. During that time I was ok with my ex-husband looking at porn as long as it was with me present.  But looking back, I can see how porn caused problems in our sex life. Looking back I can see the damage it caused to each of us.
Pornography influences how a man views his wife. It affects how he views sexuality. It affects his relationship with God. It affects every aspect of his life. Sometimes these effects aren't immediately obvious. Sometimes you don't realize how negatively it's affecting your marriage until the porn use is completely stopped. Then looking back you can more clearly see just how much of a negative effect it's had.
Every time a man uses porn for sexual stimulation or gratification he is taking something away from his wife. Just like Karlie said except she said it better. 
_____________________________
Galations 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
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