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:: House passes climate-change bill - 6/26/2009 11:43:18 PM
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earthless
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"Democrats narrowly passed historic climate and energy legislation
Friday evening that would transform the country’s economy and industrial landscape.
But the all-hands-on-deck effort to protect politically vulnerable Democrats by corralling the minimum number of votes to pass the bill, 219-212, proves that there are limits to President Barack Obama's ability to use his popularity to push through his legislative agenda. Forty-four Democrats voted against the bill, while just eight Republicans crossed the aisle to back it.
Despite the tough path to passage, the legislation is a significant win for House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Ca.) and the bill’s two main sponsors – House Energy and Commerce committee chairman Henry Waxman (D-Ca.) and Massachusetts Rep. Edward Markey (D) – who modified the bill again and again to get skeptical members from the Rust Belt, the oil-producing southeast and rural Midwest to back the legislation."
SOURCE
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: :: House passes climate-change bill - 6/27/2009 1:08:08 AM
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ManimalX
Posts: 2558
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Oy vey. You would think seeing hundreds and thousands of oil and coal jobs disappear due to CURRENT moronic environmental laws would have seen this thing easily defeated. Nope, liberal ignorance knows no restraint.
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"And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth." - 2nd Timothy 2:24,25
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RE: :: House passes climate-change bill - 6/27/2009 1:14:17 AM
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mikeman2
Posts: 154
Joined: 9/23/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
"Democrats narrowly passed historic climate and energy legislation
Friday evening that would transform the country’s economy and industrial landscape.
But the all-hands-on-deck effort to protect politically vulnerable Democrats by corralling the minimum number of votes to pass the bill, 219-212, proves that there are limits to President Barack Obama's ability to use his popularity to push through his legislative agenda. Forty-four Democrats voted against the bill, while just eight Republicans crossed the aisle to back it.
Despite the tough path to passage, the legislation is a significant win for House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Ca.) and the bill’s two main sponsors – House Energy and Commerce committee chairman Henry Waxman (D-Ca.) and Massachusetts Rep. Edward Markey (D) – who modified the bill again and again to get skeptical members from the Rust Belt, the oil-producing southeast and rural Midwest to back the legislation."
SOURCE
Actually, I started a thread on this, but I suppose we can close that down and use this one instead.
According to the climatologist CHip Knappenberger, this bill would only moderate temperatures only hundredths of a degree in 2050 and no more than two tenths of a degree at the end of the century. So is this worth millions in lost jobs, trillions in lost income with 50-90% higher energy prices?
I once believed in the whole sky is falling carbon emissions theory but now I'm not so sure which includes the findings of Chip Knappenberger. It is because Obama and company refuse to pursue clean nuclear power in favor of coal producing energy, which is by far the dirtiest of the dirty carbon emitting culprits. Nuclear power had ZERO carbon emissions. So what does this tell me? It tells me that they really don't believe what they are saying, unless they think that nuclear power has the same chance of destroying the planet as fossil fuel emitting energy. LOL. I now believe it is all a big myth in order to rob us further of our hard earned tax money. Of course, what about the poor? Certainly the Dems won't allow the poor to go without being able to heat or cool their homes with these insane energy prices. That's right, the government will allow them rebates and credits for low income families to be able to afford to do so. So who do you suppose will take up that tab? That's right, the beast of burden tax payer (aka smuck). Wherever you find inequality and/or debt, he will be there!!
For me the whole sky is falling via carbon emissions arguement is mute simply because I think there are enough obvious reasons to get off foreign oil ASAP. So what has been done to do that I wonder? In short, nothing with this bill included. What we need are viable energy alternatives instaed of blindly taxing the populace in the hopes of another energy source that is "safe". In fact, are there any "safe" energy sources? Producing Solar panels is toxic to the environment and wind power kills birds!!! There just is no satisfying these environmental wackos and I fear the public won't understand this until they go to turn on a light switch and nothing comes on.
So in the meantime I guess we just drink the Obama grape juice and not drive SUV's. Never mind the fact that one of his plane rides to Hawaii burns the equivalent of a person driving an SUV for an entier year!! These hypocrites sicken me.
< Message edited by mikeman2 -- 6/27/2009 1:23:41 AM >
_____________________________
Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on.
-Winston Churchill.
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RE: :: House passes climate-change bill - 6/27/2009 11:13:26 AM
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Marcus.
Posts: 2227
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If this is a real problem instead of trying to panic folks and tell them to not think critically about this issue, why aren't the folks in the movement involved with creating realistic plans to switch over to different kinds of energy production and city planning? I see reasons to transition out of fossil fuels but I won't trust anyone who goes about it with a dictatorial zeal. I've never found folks who use the hard sell to be working to help you but to help themselves to your wallet.
_____________________________
A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity. -- Sigmund Freud
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RE: :: House passes climate-change bill - 6/27/2009 11:25:06 AM
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mikeman2
Posts: 154
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
If this is a real problem instead of trying to panic folks and tell them to not think critically about this issue, why aren't the folks in the movement involved with creating realistic plans to switch over to different kinds of energy production and city planning? I see reasons to transition out of fossil fuels but I won't trust anyone who goes about it with a dictatorial zeal. I've never found folks who use the hard sell to be working to help you but to help themselves to your wallet.
Spot on!! For example, I would be in favor of higher taxes to fit all governmental buildings with solar panels or to build nuclear facilities. Just give me something to invest my money in for the future rather than flushing down the Washington spending hole. So do they come up with alternatives in Washington? No, rather, they simply tell us to use less of what we need. Meanwhile those in Washington contniue their fossil fuel burning jet set lives while mantaining their lifestyle of 6 mansions or more. I often wonder where all that money goes in Washington and the stock market but when I look at how elected officials live it all begins to make sense. Then they have the nerve to try and dictate how much CEO's make because they want a peice of that pie as well. YOu know, there is no bounds to their greed. So what's next, a tax on air?
_____________________________
Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on.
-Winston Churchill.
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RE: :: House passes climate-change bill - 6/27/2009 4:55:29 PM
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iluvatar
Posts: 3044
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
If this is a real problem instead of trying to panic folks and tell them to not think critically about this issue, why aren't the folks in the movement involved with creating realistic plans to switch over to different kinds of energy production and city planning?
Who says that they aren't? I've heard interviews on the radio with people trying to do just that. It's a hard problem, particularly the city planning aspect. People like their cars and people in some areas like to keep the level of gov't involvement to a minimum. Look at Houston, where zoning is almost non-existent and they just keep building highways to accommodate the sprawl. I'm not talking about sprawl that happened 20 years ago - these projects are going on right now. It's easier to convince the public to build a new road for the cars that they already use than it is to convince them to build a railroad and then build future projects around it.
quote:
I see reasons to transition out of fossil fuels but I won't trust anyone who goes about it with a dictatorial zeal. I've never found folks who use the hard sell to be working to help you but to help themselves to your wallet.
I don't disagree with you. But the same thing happens on both sides.
-Dan.
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Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: :: House passes climate-change bill - 6/27/2009 5:13:54 PM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 1886
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
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Now...you know why the global warming myth had to be perpetuated.
It was NEVER about the enviroment. It is ALWAYS about government control.
always
Without global warming there can never be this kind of legislation.
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You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: :: House passes climate-change bill - 6/27/2009 5:53:38 PM
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iluvatar
Posts: 3044
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
Now...you know why the global warming myth had to be perpetuated.
It was NEVER about the enviroment. It is ALWAYS about government control.
always
Without global warming there can never be this kind of legislation.
Right. That's why the theory was first put forward in the 1890's, to facilitate greater government control of our lives.
Except that the scientist who first publicized the idea thought that a warmer planet would be good for society, increasing our agricultural yields.
-Dan.
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Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: :: House passes climate-change bill - 6/27/2009 8:11:29 PM
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litfire2000
Posts: 672
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quote:
The legislation spilt both the environmental and business communities. Although environmentalists have pushed for stricter controls on greenhouse-gas emissions for more than a decade, more left-wing groups like Greenpeace wanted stronger emissions reductions and fewer protections for greenhouse-gas guzzling industries like coal. While some electric utilities, auto manufacturers, and Fortune 500 companies supported the bill, large business
associations like the Chamber of Commerce argued that it would impose a crippling regulatory burden on the economy that would push factories and jobs abroad.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0609/24232_Page2.html#ixzz0Jg9Vzfau&D
And the jury is still out...............
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Ps. 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem
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RE: :: House passes climate-change bill - 6/27/2009 10:26:10 PM
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earthless
Posts: 5282
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons get mugged and shot at...
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
Right. That's why the theory was first put forward in the 1890's, to facilitate greater government control of our lives.
Well, like Rahmbo Emmanuel says.. never waste a good crisis.
quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
Except that the scientist who first publicized the idea thought that a warmer planet would be good for society, increasing our agricultural yields.
-Dan.
Little did he know then what we know now in an age of scientific enlightenment - that the sun is the primary cause and climate change has always existed in cycles.
But hey.. it's my driving of a minivan to Target that does it.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: :: House passes climate-change bill - 6/27/2009 11:46:44 PM
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Marcus.
Posts: 2227
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quote:
ORIGINAL: litfire2000
quote:
The legislation spilt both the environmental and business communities. Although environmentalists have pushed for stricter controls on greenhouse-gas emissions for more than a decade, more left-wing groups like Greenpeace wanted stronger emissions reductions and fewer protections for greenhouse-gas guzzling industries like coal. While some electric utilities, auto manufacturers, and Fortune 500 companies supported the bill, large business
associations like the Chamber of Commerce argued that it would impose a crippling regulatory burden on the economy that would push factories and jobs abroad.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0609/24232_Page2.html#ixzz0Jg9Vzfau&D
And the jury is still out...............
Considering the reasons for outsourcing factories and jobs to cheaper countries with few, if any, environmental regulations. That would seem to be an accurate forecast of what a tightened regulatory environment produces.
_____________________________
A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity. -- Sigmund Freud
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RE: :: House passes climate-change bill - 6/28/2009 9:05:18 AM
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mikeman2
Posts: 154
Joined: 9/23/2005
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Little did he know then what we know now in an age of scientific enlightenment - that the sun is the primary cause and climate change has always existed in cycles.
But hey.. it's my driving of a minivan to Target that does it.
[/quote]
Well the answser is obvioius. Any time the sun acts up and gets "hot" the liberals should make legislation so that we get taxed each and every time.
_____________________________
Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on.
-Winston Churchill.
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RE: :: House passes climate-change bill - 6/28/2009 9:16:14 AM
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Sophie11
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
Right. That's why the theory was first put forward in the 1890's...
1890's...? Can someone give me a stat on how many hummers were driving around back then?
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RE: :: House passes climate-change bill - 6/28/2009 4:47:48 PM
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iluvatar
Posts: 3044
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sophie11
quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
Right. That's why the theory was first put forward in the 1890's...
1890's...? Can someone give me a stat on how many hummers were driving around back then?
Hummers? Not many. Coal-burning factories? Plenty.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: :: House passes climate-change bill - 6/28/2009 5:05:13 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 6721
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From: Oklahoma
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Woe be unto the Rebublcans that voted for it!
Thanks
RC
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Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: :: House passes climate-change bill - 6/28/2009 5:23:30 PM
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Marcus.
Posts: 2227
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Back then it would have been the Dems.
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A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity. -- Sigmund Freud
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RE: :: House passes climate-change bill - 6/28/2009 9:58:01 PM
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todd_t
Posts: 1880
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From: The North Woods
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quote:
Little did he know then what we know now in an age of scientific enlightenment - that the sun is the primary cause and climate change has always existed in cycles.
Isn't saying the sun is responsible for global warming an extreme oversimplification?
Even with increased solar activity, with a climate not impacted with extra CO2 content the bulk of such radiation would just bounce back into space from the earth's magnetic field.
The question is how much of that extra CO2 is trapping what's left within the atmosphere. Look at Venus; it's a perfect example of GW run amok.
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Hail Cthulhu
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RE: :: House passes climate-change bill - 6/28/2009 10:07:38 PM
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earthless
Posts: 5282
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From: where pigeons get mugged and shot at...
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quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
quote:
Little did he know then what we know now in an age of scientific enlightenment - that the sun is the primary cause and climate change has always existed in cycles.
Isn't saying the sun is responsible for global warming an extreme oversimplification?
Even with increased solar activity, with a climate not impacted with extra CO2 content the bulk of such radiation would just bounce back into space from the earth's magnetic field.
The question is how much of that extra CO2 is trapping what's left within the atmosphere. Look at Venus; it's a perfect example of GW run amok.
You're right.. I will go back to a horse and buggy tomorrow.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: :: House passes climate-change bill - 6/28/2009 10:23:59 PM
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todd_t
Posts: 1880
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From: The North Woods
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quote:
I will go back to a horse and buggy tomorrow.
I know of no one who is suggesting that as a solution for climate change, especially as industry is as much a source of excess CO2 than any auto fleet.
Curbing CO2 emissions also won't happen overnight. It's probably going to take a long time to start shaving it down.
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Hail Cthulhu
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RE: :: House passes climate-change bill - 6/29/2009 9:32:47 AM
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Sophie11
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quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
Isn't saying the sun is responsible for global warming an extreme oversimplification?
Even with increased solar activity, with a climate not impacted with extra CO2 content the bulk of such radiation would just bounce back into space from the earth's magnetic field.
Unless the earth's magnetic field changes, which I've heard it does.
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RE: :: House passes climate-change bill - 6/29/2009 9:46:38 AM
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Sophie11
Posts: 604
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quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
Curbing CO2 emissions also won't happen overnight. It's probably going to take a long time to start shaving it down.
You're right, especially since this bill will do nothing towards curbing them.
And anyway, I'm sure we'll all be riding in a horse in buggy much sooner than you think, purely due to economic reasons because of all the spending in Washington.
Maybe I should get into horse sales. Could make some decent money at it sometime in the near future. I'm sure I wouldn't make near as much as Al Gore stands to make with his company though.
Too bad....
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RE: :: House passes climate-change bill - 6/29/2009 9:51:19 AM
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_jjp_
Posts: 1812
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quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
Isn't saying the sun is responsible for global warming an extreme oversimplification?
No it isn't an over simplification, this is not the first time the Earth has gone through similar warming cycles caused by natural forces.
quote:
Even with increased solar activity, with a climate not impacted with extra CO2 content the bulk of such radiation would just bounce back into space from the earth's magnetic field.
CO2 has no effect on how much radiation the Earth's magnetic field can bounce back into space seeing as how the magnetic field's protection takes place primarily in the airless void of space. It doesn't actually bounce it back into space either, it bends it around the Earth.
quote:
The question is how much of that extra CO2 is trapping what's left within the atmosphere. Look at Venus; it's a perfect example of GW run amok
Let's see, venus is alot closer to the sun and it's atmosphere is 96.5% CO2, the eath's atmosphere is 0.038% CO2. Water vapor is 1% of the atmosphere and is a much greater contributor to the radiative forcing. Interestingly enough the Earth has managed to survive much higher magnitude changes in temperature and even thrive in the interglacial periods which were warmer than what we experience today. We are just so arrogant as to believe that the temperature when we started measuring it accurately is THE temperature.
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RE: :: House passes climate-change bill - 6/29/2009 9:52:50 AM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 5721
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
Oy vey. You would think seeing hundreds and thousands of oil and coal jobs disappear due to CURRENT moronic environmental laws would have seen this thing easily defeated. Nope, liberal ignorance knows no restraint.
It's the liberal "AGENDA".
That's why they will not let up no matter what.
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Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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