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RE: :: House passes climate-change bill - 7/9/2009 7:54:39 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 2916
Joined: 10/12/2007
From: NYC by way of Chicago
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
I read that electricity from the windmills is twice as expensive as fossil fuel yet.
Depends on whether you're comparing against natural gas or coal.
Last I read, wind is actually cheaper than natural gas and is starting to get competitive with coal:
http://www.meic.org/energy/global_warming_pollution/renewable-energy-alternatives-1/wind_cost
That said, natural gas has a lot of advantages when it comes to peaking over wind, but it still isn't that expensive.
One of the biggest expenses when it comes to natural gas is the fuel. And when natural gas is consumed to generate power, it increases home heating costs for everyone. So switching to get our electricity from wind not only helps keep electric rates stable but also reduces home heating costs if it is used to replace natural gas (a likelihood; natural gas is our most expensive source of energy, so an increased supply of wind energy will mean reduced utilization of the most expensive form of production.)
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RE: :: House passes climate-change bill - 7/9/2009 8:01:08 PM
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Marcus.
Posts: 2230
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Next to my fireplace.
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I get to fly over a good part of the Midwest. You should see how windmills are exploding across the plains.
_____________________________
A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity. -- Sigmund Freud
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RE: :: House passes climate-change bill - 7/15/2009 9:39:40 AM
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its_GO_time
Posts: 554
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Ah the real reason... Al Gore says C&T would create 'global governance'. That's the 'change' y'all voted for? Anyway crazy right wing radical(at least in the GW zealot's eyes, I'm sure) Walter Williams' take on this bill
_____________________________
"I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism." -Ronald Reagan
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RE: :: House passes climate-change bill - 7/16/2009 9:31:46 AM
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Pat-rebel_lady
Posts: 676
Joined: 4/12/2005
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I am shocked that a "mainstream media" organization such as USA TODAY dares ask this provocative and vital question ...
quote:
Could We Be Wrong About Global Warming?
Could the best climate models -- the ones used to predict global warming -- all be wrong?
Maybe so, says a new study published online today in the journal Nature Geoscience. The report found that only about half of the warming that occurred during a natural climate change 55 million years ago can be explained by excess carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. What caused the remainder of the warming is a mystery.
"In a nutshell, theoretical models cannot explain what we observe in the geological record," says oceanographer Gerald Dickens, study co-author and professor of Earth Science at Rice University in Houston. "There appears to be something fundamentally wrong with the way temperature and carbon are linked in climate models."
During the warming period, known as the “Palaeocene-Eocene thermal maximum” (PETM), for unknown reasons, the amount of carbon in Earth's atmosphere rose rapidly. This makes the PETM one of the best ancient climate analogues for present-day Earth.
As the levels of carbon increased, global surface temperatures also rose dramatically during the PETM. Average temperatures worldwide rose by around 13 degrees in the relatively short geological span of about 10,000 years.
The conclusion, Dickens said, is that something other than carbon dioxide caused much of this ancient warming.
To read the entire USA TODAY article
AND YET, the article pictures Obama and says:
quote:
President Barack Obama speaks about climate change Thursday, July 9, 2009, during the G8 Summit in L'Aquila, Italy. Rallying rich and developing nations alike, Obama said the world's top polluters should keep driving toward a deal to halt global warming. (Haraz N. Ghanbari, AP)
(Bold and underline mine)
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RE: :: House passes climate-change bill - 7/16/2009 10:48:40 PM
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its_GO_time
Posts: 554
Status: offline
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quote:
Could We Be Wrong About Global Warming?
That's why the push is on; There are currently enough religous GW zealots and plenty of greedy former(Gore), and current(Pelosi), politicans, to push this through. It has nothing to do with climate change, windmills, rubber-band cars, etc., and everything to with "Global Goverence" and the rich getting richer(hmmm... I've heard that somwhere before).
_____________________________
"I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism." -Ronald Reagan
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RE: :: House passes climate-change bill - 7/17/2009 9:14:41 AM
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davemiller7
Posts: 1234
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
Status: offline
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You're absolutely right. These articles show how it's all accomplished.
http://blog.populistamerica.com/2009/06/gangster-state-goldman-sachs-and-cap-and-trade/
http://prorev.com/2009/07/cap-trade-sets-up-new-commodities.html
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/28816321/the_great_american_bubble_machine
quote:
ORIGINAL: its_GO_time
quote:
Could We Be Wrong About Global Warming?
That's why the push is on; There are currently enough religous GW zealots and plenty of greedy former(Gore), and current(Pelosi), politicans, to push this through. It has nothing to do with climate change, windmills, rubber-band cars, etc., and everything to with "Global Goverence" and the rich getting richer(hmmm... I've heard that somwhere before).
_____________________________
"Here I stand. I can do no other. God help me. Amen." - Martin Luther
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God
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RE: :: House passes climate-change bill - 7/20/2009 10:21:56 AM
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radiorobert
Posts: 160
Joined: 5/6/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: its_GO_time
quote:
Could We Be Wrong About Global Warming?
That's why the push is on; There are currently enough religous GW zealots and plenty of greedy former(Gore), and current(Pelosi), politicans, to push this through. It has nothing to do with climate change, windmills, rubber-band cars, etc., and everything to with "Global Goverence" and the rich getting richer(hmmm... I've heard that somwhere before).
Yes, yes and yes...right on the 'money'.
What we are witnessing is a historic shift and yet continuous progeassion of the new world ruling powers. That being corporations.
You're not seeing a shift to old style communism, nor are you seeing any sort of dramatic rejection of capitalism. It's a third alternative form of power grab. It's something new that until recently couldn't have been done before.
It takes scientific knowledge, social propaganda, socialist elements, capitalist elements, religious elements and puts them all togeather to form a new type of world domination and social functioning.
What this tries to do is to bring all the 'best' elements of mankinds aforementioned tried systems togeather into one package. The goal; maximized human happiness so as to guarantee continued political and economic power for a few elites.
The result? In the end, this will progress the continous take over of our lives. It will be deceptive because it will seem comfortable and desirable. However, in time 'issues' will come up that will show it for what it is.
This is the new form of communism and capitalism wrapped into one nice sweet shiny package.
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RE: :: House passes climate-change bill - 7/20/2009 2:39:05 PM
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davemiller7
Posts: 1234
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
Status: offline
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I agree wholeheartedly. It sounds like you are saying something pretty close to fascism:
http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/Fascism.html
quote:
ORIGINAL: radiorobert
quote:
ORIGINAL: its_GO_time
quote:
Could We Be Wrong About Global Warming?
That's why the push is on; There are currently enough religous GW zealots and plenty of greedy former(Gore), and current(Pelosi), politicans, to push this through. It has nothing to do with climate change, windmills, rubber-band cars, etc., and everything to with "Global Goverence" and the rich getting richer(hmmm... I've heard that somwhere before).
Yes, yes and yes...right on the 'money'.
What we are witnessing is a historic shift and yet continuous progeassion of the new world ruling powers. That being corporations.
You're not seeing a shift to old style communism, nor are you seeing any sort of dramatic rejection of capitalism. It's a third alternative form of power grab. It's something new that until recently couldn't have been done before.
It takes scientific knowledge, social propaganda, socialist elements, capitalist elements, religious elements and puts them all togeather to form a new type of world domination and social functioning.
What this tries to do is to bring all the 'best' elements of mankinds aforementioned tried systems togeather into one package. The goal; maximized human happiness so as to guarantee continued political and economic power for a few elites.
The result? In the end, this will progress the continous take over of our lives. It will be deceptive because it will seem comfortable and desirable. However, in time 'issues' will come up that will show it for what it is.
This is the new form of communism and capitalism wrapped into one nice sweet shiny package.
_____________________________
"Here I stand. I can do no other. God help me. Amen." - Martin Luther
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God
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