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RE: Hebews 10:26 & Hebrews 6:6 - 6/27/2009 3:52:28 PM
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URForgiven
Posts: 521
Joined: 3/22/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RustyCarr
quote:
URForgiven wrote:
If you are a Christian then you have received life, eternal life, Christ's life. He lives in you the life you cannot, nor did He ever expect you to...because it is His life, and only He can live it. He does not give you strength, He is your strength. He does not cause you to overcome, He has overcome, and He continues to overcome as He lives in and through you.
If you are a Christian, then you have already received God's mercy in the Person of Jesus Christ. If you are a Christian then your sins have been forgiven on His account, and you have been reconciled to God, so that you can now draw near to Him in your time of need without fear of condemnation. This is what the book of Hebrews is all about.
Peace
Please forgive me, but your post is not clear to me. Forgive me, but your post seems to go from one extreme to another in hints and generalities. This is also what I hear from the pulpit too often. Let me try to be specific.
Your first sentence is a blanket sentence that seems to require no effort from the believer. I would write the sentence this way: If you are a mature Christian abbiding in Him then you have received life, eternal life, Christ's life. I base this on much scripture exhorting us to run the race, to mature, to be washed by the Word of God leaving behind error and fleshly desires. I know that we, even Paul, have to beat our flesh into submission, and this may be a life long exercise, but our love (the love God has given us through the Holy Spirit) for Jesus, truth and righteousness does work within us to conform us to His will.
quote:
He lives in you the life you cannot, nor did He ever expect you to...because it is His life, and only He can live it. He does not give you strength, He is your strength. He does not cause you to overcome, He has overcome, and He continues to overcome as He lives in and through you.
This seems so mystical,.. as if there is little or no submission to Him on our part. God asks us to do, ASKS US TO DO, ASKS US TO DO two things: Love God with all your heart and with all your mind and with all your strength, and love your neighbor as yourself. HE does give us HIS Holy Spirit to help us live our lives in Him, but scripture also says that people are capable of resisting the Holy Spirit. So that again does require us to make choices. Choose NOT to resist the Holy Spirit. Do the honest best you can, He is our loving Father in heaven who is patient and longsuffering, but still I find it easier to at least TRY to live as He would want me to live. I find it easier to avoid mystical beliefs. Perhaps, again, your writing is simply incomplete. Perhaps you know and agree with what I am trying to say, but the details are just missing. Jesus does live His life through us, but only as we submit to His leading...
"""He does not give you strength, He is your strength.""" How does this reconcile with: Phil 4:13 I can do everything through him who gives me strength. See what I mean? Kind of "mystical" to me.
I really like the last paragrah of your post. I do understand that. """so that you can now draw near to Him""" Yes, I like and understand that.
Peace and blessings to you, URForgiven. I only desire to sharpen our understanding and our ability to speak the Truth clearly. I don't mean to offend, rather to teach in ways that make our words clearer and unable to be contradicted. It is a skill and talent that must be developed through the leading of the Holy Spirit. Sometimes hearing things like your first paragraph from the pulpit too much will hinder our own ability to communicate clearly without ommisions and without some belief in unclear "mystical" blanket generalizations.
Run the race... iron sharpens iron.... and God be with you, URForgiven.
Rusty
It is not mystical at all. Though at one time it was a mystery...
Colossians 1:27
"To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory"
Since this was revealed 2000 years ago, it should really not be a mystery any longer.
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: Hebews 10:26 & Hebrews 6:6 - 6/27/2009 3:58:14 PM
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URForgiven
Posts: 521
Joined: 3/22/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
If you are a Christian then you have received life, eternal life, Christ's life. He lives in you the life you cannot, nor did He ever expect you to...because it is His life, and only He can live it. He does not give you strength, He is your strength. He does not cause you to overcome, He has overcome, and He continues to overcome as He lives in and through you.
If you are a Christian, then you have already received God's mercy in the Person of Jesus Christ. If you are a Christian then your sins have been forgiven on His account, and you have been reconciled to God, so that you can now draw near to Him in your time of need without fear of condemnation. This is what the book of Hebrews is all about.
Great rhetoric URForgiven but the real question is "IF" one is a Christian or not?
How do you go about determning that with someone who is struggling that you are attempting to help?
Thanks
RC
I leave the determining up to folks like you RC. 
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: Hebews 10:26 & Hebrews 6:6 - 6/27/2009 5:30:08 PM
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RustyCarr
Posts: 972
Joined: 3/11/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
t is not mystical at all. Though at one time it was a mystery...
Colossians 1:27
"To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory"
Since this was revealed 2000 years ago, it should really not be a mystery any longer.
Peace
Scripture is wonderful stuff. It is unique. It cannot be counterfitted. Mankind is born ignorant of it. Therefore no man can claim to be inspired by God unless he is quoting scripture. Therefore, if there is any Truth in me it is "Christ in me."
Paul says,
Col 1:25 I have become its (the church's) servant by the commission God gave me to present to you the word of God in its fullness—
Col 1:26 the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the saints. (The mystery he speaks of is the gospel of the kingdom of God.)
Col 1:27 To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you (The gospel and the Truth in you), the hope of glory.
Col 1:28 We proclaim him (I am the way, the truth and the life...), admonishing and teaching everyone with all wisdom (How many churches do that?), so that we may present everyone perfect in Christ.
Col 1:29 To this end I labor, struggling with all his energy (The energy that comes from faith in the Truth, from Jesus, to a creature formed from the dust of the ground. Christ in us, just as we were created in the beginning in His image, which we lost by believing not the truth.), which so powerfully works in me.
The Truth is powerful. When put in practice it is no mystery at all. Love one another in Truth and righteousness. Contend for God's Truth and justice, do not be afraid of persecution, because if you are not being persecuted you probably aren't contending.
But, our churches should be a refuge and a bright family full of His wisdom and using that wisdom to encourage one another and grow the faith and understanding of newcomers. Where black is black and white is white, and no mystery is left to confuse and obscure the Truth. Paul knew this: Mt 23:11 The greatest among you will be your servant. That is why he "To this end I labor, struggling with all his energy... "
So after all of this, I can assume we agree that there is no mystery, and it is the Truth (Christ) that works in us as we do these things: 1: Submit and repent like a child. 2: Die to the desires of the flesh (This takes time, effort, and practice with our fellow Christians, whom we love.) You know, one of the things that grieves me is; new Christians go back and forth. One day a week, they are surrounded by Christians in church, while the other six days they are in the darkness surrounded by the darkness of old friends and old habits. Some new Christians have family that are against them, and they have nowhere to go, except somewhere they can be alone with God. That is hard, exceptionally hard, I would say. And 3: Grow in wisdom, in understanding, and in the Truth. 4: Abide in the Truth by putting it in practice with brothers and sisters in Christ.
Help us, Father. Pour out your Spirit and your Truth on your church....Amen
Rusty
< Message edited by RustyCarr -- 6/27/2009 5:40:39 PM >
_____________________________
It is better to obey God rather than men. The Truth, God's word, within is the lamp that guides our feet. -For the Lord gives wisdom, and from His mouth come knowledge and understanding. Prov. 2:6-
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RE: Hebews 10:26 & Hebrews 6:6 - 6/27/2009 8:54:59 PM
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manda59
Posts: 8201
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: supernova1976
I have to admit I have willfully sinned in this past week, nothing criminal but in God's kingdom it is a crime.
Did you really enjoy it, didn't feel bad at all about it, and do you fully intend to do it again as soon as you can?
Or did you feel convicted over it and fall on your knees before Christ?
_____________________________
"Manda.....you said what I tried to say, just much better"
sharonjef, October 2009
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RE: Hebews 10:26 & Hebrews 6:6 - 6/27/2009 9:15:23 PM
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supernova1976
Posts: 350
Joined: 9/3/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
quote:
ORIGINAL: supernova1976
I have to admit I have willfully sinned in this past week, nothing criminal but in God's kingdom it is a crime.
Did you really enjoy it, didn't feel bad at all about it, and do you fully intend to do it again as soon as you can?
Or did you feel convicted over it and fall on your knees before Christ?
That's really hard to answer in all honesty. I don't want to say that I won't do it again, because if I say that and then I do just what I said that I wouldn't do than I am no good for my word and a total liar. I intend NOT to do this again- and have NO desire to do this again soon, but in all honesty as long as I have this body that struggles with the fleshly desires and I am a single woman without a companion (because I will not have sex before marriage) then I feel I will always struggle. Did I enjoy it? not exactly. I felt convicted the entire time which makes it so much worse. Trust me, I know I am not in a great place with the Lord at this time. I am having a VERY hard time. For example even now, knowing that I still continued to sin, I hate myself like never before and I feel very seperate from God as a result at this time.
< Message edited by supernova1976 -- 6/27/2009 9:46:16 PM >
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RE: Hebews 10:26 & Hebrews 6:6 - 6/27/2009 10:38:20 PM
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manda59
Posts: 8201
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: supernova1976
I don't want to say that I won't do it again
That's fine, because I didn't ask you that.
quote:
because if I say that and then I do just what I said that I wouldn't do than I am no good for my word and a total liar. I intend NOT to do this again- and have NO desire to do this again soon, but in all honesty as long as I have this body that struggles with the fleshly desires and I am a single woman without a companion (because I will not have sex before marriage) then I feel I will always struggle. Did I enjoy it? not exactly. I felt convicted the entire time which makes it so much worse. Trust me, I know I am not in a great place with the Lord at this time. I am having a VERY hard time. For example even now, knowing that I still continued to sin, I hate myself like never before and I feel very seperate from God as a result at this time.
He doesn't want you to hate yourself btw. He's not like that.
This is my take on things, which may differ from that of some, but it's my firm belief.
Before we are saved, when we sin, that sin separates us from God and the wages of it is death.
After we are saved, God starts the work of sanctification in us, and the way He looks at us changes. When we slip and fall, those sins no longer separate us from Him; He looks upon them differently and actually uses them in the sanctification process, by convicting us and teaching us to heed His Spirit within us.
So how about you quit beating yourself up? Guilt and shame are not of God, so don't listen to those condemning voices, they're not from Him. Listen instead to the voice of conviction, the gentle loving voice calling you to pick yourself up and move onwards and upwards.
You've not lost your salvation; your salvation does not depend on your ability to keep yourself from sinning, but on what He did on the Cross and His resurrection.
(Quite apart from all of this, are you absolutely sure that what you're doing is a sin? It's not appropriate to talk about it here, but if you come over to the Women Only folder, you may even find there is a thread on it already ....)
_____________________________
"Manda.....you said what I tried to say, just much better"
sharonjef, October 2009
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RE: Hebews 10:26 & Hebrews 6:6 - 6/27/2009 10:46:48 PM
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supernova1976
Posts: 350
Joined: 9/3/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
quote:
ORIGINAL: supernova1976
I don't want to say that I won't do it again
That's fine, because I didn't ask you that.
quote:
because if I say that and then I do just what I said that I wouldn't do than I am no good for my word and a total liar. I intend NOT to do this again- and have NO desire to do this again soon, but in all honesty as long as I have this body that struggles with the fleshly desires and I am a single woman without a companion (because I will not have sex before marriage) then I feel I will always struggle. Did I enjoy it? not exactly. I felt convicted the entire time which makes it so much worse. Trust me, I know I am not in a great place with the Lord at this time. I am having a VERY hard time. For example even now, knowing that I still continued to sin, I hate myself like never before and I feel very seperate from God as a result at this time.
He doesn't want you to hate yourself btw. He's not like that.
This is my take on things, which may differ from that of some, but it's my firm belief.
Before we are saved, when we sin, that sin separates us from God and the wages of it is death.
After we are saved, God starts the work of sanctification in us, and the way He looks at us changes. When we slip and fall, those sins no longer separate us from Him; He looks upon them differently and actually uses them in the sanctification process, by convicting us and teaching us to heed His Spirit within us.
So how about you quit beating yourself up? Guilt and shame are not of God, so don't listen to those condemning voices, they're not from Him. Listen instead to the voice of conviction, the gentle loving voice calling you to pick yourself up and move onwards and upwards.
You've not lost your salvation; your salvation does not depend on your ability to keep yourself from sinning, but on what He did on the Cross and His resurrection.
(Quite apart from all of this, are you absolutely sure that what you're doing is a sin? It's not appropriate to talk about it here, but if you come over to the Women Only folder, you may even find there is a thread on it already ....)
Manda- you are amazing. I pray your reward in heaven will be great.
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RE: Hebews 10:26 & Hebrews 6:6 - 6/27/2009 10:49:36 PM
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URForgiven
Posts: 521
Joined: 3/22/2008
Status: offline
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supernova1976, you're inbox is full. Let me know when you have cleared out some space and I will re-send my response. God Bless you.
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: Hebews 10:26 & Hebrews 6:6 - 6/28/2009 10:29:40 AM
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GrannyofSix
Posts: 128
Joined: 6/17/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
That's really hard to answer in all honesty. I don't want to say that I won't do it again, because if I say that and then I do just what I said that I wouldn't do than I am no good for my word and a total liar. I intend NOT to do this again- and have NO desire to do this again soon, but in all honesty as long as I have this body that struggles with the fleshly desires and I am a single woman without a companion (because I will not have sex before marriage) then I feel I will always struggle. Did I enjoy it? not exactly. I felt convicted the entire time which makes it so much worse. Trust me, I know I am not in a great place with the Lord at this time. I am having a VERY hard time. For example even now, knowing that I still continued to sin, I hate myself like never before and I feel very seperate from God as a result at this time.
It is difficult for me to understand someone deliberately committing a sin, not enjoying it, feeling so guilty, feeling separated from God because of it, hating oneself, yet not having the strength to stop doing it. Why would you want to feel so bad? So why don't you stop it? I have an idea what you are talking about, but it really doesn't matter, does it? Any sin that makes a person feel like this sin makes you feel - well....why do it? There is no pleasure in it according to what you say, and a whole lot of guilt and shame, regret and struggle. So just don't do it.
We ALL have something that tempts us. What tempts me may not tempt you, and what tempts you may not tempt me. But God's Grace and Mercy is greater than any temptation. He will make a way of escape from every temptation that is known to man. You just have to ask Him the very second that you are tempted instead of giving into the temptation. Be praying on your knees instead of fulfilling the temptation.
God never said it would be easy to walk the straight and narrow path, but He did say that he would help us, guide us, lead us not into temptation, and make a way of escape. PLUS, we have a choice - we have free will - and we will always have free will to do good or to sin. Life can be a daily battle and that's just the way it is. Choose ye this day whom ye will serve - God or mammon (sin). Fight the good battle of Faith!
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RE: Hebews 10:26 & Hebrews 6:6 - 6/28/2009 11:01:45 PM
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supernova1976
Posts: 350
Joined: 9/3/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GrannyofSix
quote:
That's really hard to answer in all honesty. I don't want to say that I won't do it again, because if I say that and then I do just what I said that I wouldn't do than I am no good for my word and a total liar. I intend NOT to do this again- and have NO desire to do this again soon, but in all honesty as long as I have this body that struggles with the fleshly desires and I am a single woman without a companion (because I will not have sex before marriage) then I feel I will always struggle. Did I enjoy it? not exactly. I felt convicted the entire time which makes it so much worse. Trust me, I know I am not in a great place with the Lord at this time. I am having a VERY hard time. For example even now, knowing that I still continued to sin, I hate myself like never before and I feel very seperate from God as a result at this time.
Sorry- not sure how to type without this box looking like all shaded- so I thought I would bold my part so it is easier to identify for you.
It is difficult for me to understand someone deliberately committing a sin, not enjoying it, feeling so guilty, feeling separated from God because of it, hating oneself, yet not having the strength to stop doing it.
Thank you. The reason I said it is like before- it isn't that I intend to do this again- but who am I to say that? there is a verse that says in the Bible it is better to not make a vow than to make one then break it. Who am I to say I am above anything? I totally get what you are saying though. I value the honesty and boldness you have to say that to me straight out- but it would be unwise of me to say "I am NEVER doing that again" and then have a moment where I am posting on this forum with the same issue because I fell short once again. My hope is that this has been my wake up call and I will overcome this. I surely want to. Thank you again for posting this to me. You gave some great advice and alternatives that I will use the next time I am tempted- and trust me as long as I am in this body as we all are- I will be- so thank you very much.
Why would you want to feel so bad? So why don't you stop it? I have an idea what you are talking about, but it really doesn't matter, does it? Any sin that makes a person feel like this sin makes you feel - well....why do it? There is no pleasure in it according to what you say, and a whole lot of guilt and shame, regret and struggle. So just don't do it.
We ALL have something that tempts us. What tempts me may not tempt you, and what tempts you may not tempt me. But God's Grace and Mercy is greater than any temptation. He will make a way of escape from every temptation that is known to man. You just have to ask Him the very second that you are tempted instead of giving into the temptation. Be praying on your knees instead of fulfilling the temptation.
God never said it would be easy to walk the straight and narrow path, but He did say that he would help us, guide us, lead us not into temptation, and make a way of escape. PLUS, we have a choice - we have free will - and we will always have free will to do good or to sin. Life can be a daily battle and that's just the way it is. Choose ye this day whom ye will serve - God or mammon (sin). Fight the good battle of Faith!
< Message edited by supernova1976 -- 6/28/2009 11:18:02 PM >
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RE: Hebews 10:26 & Hebrews 6:6 - 6/29/2009 7:20:56 AM
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DaveW
Posts: 3797
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: supernova1976
Doesn't this scare anyone? I have to admit I have willfully sinned in this past week, nothing criminal but in God's kingdom it is a crime. What is left for me? what is left for anyone after reading this passage? I know that God knows my weakness, but I cannot deny the truth, there are times I turn my back on Christ in order to engage in sin. I am a wretch and always will be. SN:
Let me give you some context for those passages. In Heb chapters 3 and 4 the author quotes several verses from Psalm 95:
Psa 95:7b Today, if you would hear His voice,
Psa 95:8 Do not harden your hearts, as at Meribah, As in the day of Massah in the wilderness,
Psa 95:9 "When your fathers tested Me, They tried Me, though they had seen My work.
Psa 95:10 "For forty years I loathed that generation, And said they are a people who err in their heart, And they do not know My ways.
Psa 95:11 "Therefore I swore in My anger, Truly they shall not enter into My rest."
This book (Hebrews) was written to believing Jews. There was a well known rabbinic shorthand method of exegesis that if you quote a few words from a passage it refers to the entire passage. that is why I put the last half of the psalm here, starting with the part quoted.
What did the people back then do? They constantly saw God's miracles but continually grumbled and rebelled. Since the author of Hebrews refers to this passage multiple times (Heb 3.7, 3.15, 4.7) he is trying to drive home a point: it is not just slipping up or even a brief episide of willful disobedience; it is more a systemic problem as stated in verse 10: they err in their hearts and do not know (perhaps REFUSE to know) God's ways. Many like Korah died in the way for their rebellion. They would not repent, not really.
Having this as a backdrop for Hebrews 6 and then for 10 makes sense. Paul encourages the Corinthians (and us) to examine ourselves to find out if we are in the faith. If we mess up, do we truly repent? No one can answer that correctly except the person repenting and the Lord. Do we believe the lie of the devil that if we mess up again in the same way we did not truly repent? That is up to each individual.
Again, I think the author of Hebrews gives us the answer here:
Heb 12:1 Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,
Heb 12:2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
If we keep our eyes on HIM, these entangling or besetting sins will (over time) get left behind. It is a growth thing. The closer we get to Him, the less sin we will be carrying.
Are you keeping your eyes on HIM or on the sins?
_____________________________
Avatar is my daughter Laura and SIL David on their wedding 9/20/09 ====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: Hebews 10:26 & Hebrews 6:6 - 6/29/2009 12:26:51 PM
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supernova1976
Posts: 350
Joined: 9/3/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
quote:
ORIGINAL: supernova1976
Doesn't this scare anyone? I have to admit I have willfully sinned in this past week, nothing criminal but in God's kingdom it is a crime. What is left for me? what is left for anyone after reading this passage? I know that God knows my weakness, but I cannot deny the truth, there are times I turn my back on Christ in order to engage in sin. I am a wretch and always will be. SN:
Let me give you some context for those passages. In Heb chapters 3 and 4 the author quotes several verses from Psalm 95:
Psa 95:7b Today, if you would hear His voice,
Psa 95:8 Do not harden your hearts, as at Meribah, As in the day of Massah in the wilderness,
Psa 95:9 "When your fathers tested Me, They tried Me, though they had seen My work.
Psa 95:10 "For forty years I loathed that generation, And said they are a people who err in their heart, And they do not know My ways.
Psa 95:11 "Therefore I swore in My anger, Truly they shall not enter into My rest."
This book (Hebrews) was written to believing Jews. There was a well known rabbinic shorthand method of exegesis that if you quote a few words from a passage it refers to the entire passage. that is why I put the last half of the psalm here, starting with the part quoted.
What did the people back then do? They constantly saw God's miracles but continually grumbled and rebelled. Since the author of Hebrews refers to this passage multiple times (Heb 3.7, 3.15, 4.7) he is trying to drive home a point: it is not just slipping up or even a brief episide of willful disobedience; it is more a systemic problem as stated in verse 10: they err in their hearts and do not know (perhaps REFUSE to know) God's ways. Many like Korah died in the way for their rebellion. They would not repent, not really.
Having this as a backdrop for Hebrews 6 and then for 10 makes sense. Paul encourages the Corinthians (and us) to examine ourselves to find out if we are in the faith. If we mess up, do we truly repent? No one can answer that correctly except the person repenting and the Lord. Do we believe the lie of the devil that if we mess up again in the same way we did not truly repent? That is up to each individual.
Again, I think the author of Hebrews gives us the answer here:
Heb 12:1 Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,
Heb 12:2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
If we keep our eyes on HIM, these entangling or besetting sins will (over time) get left behind. It is a growth thing. The closer we get to Him, the less sin we will be carrying.
Are you keeping your eyes on HIM or on the sins?
Thank you Dave W- this helps a lot. I had never heard of the "believe the lie of the devil thing about having repented only to do that again implying we never repented" wow that increases my anxiety- but thank you for telling me. Now I know something I didn't know before.
As far as keeping my eyes on my sins or him- wanna hear something? I am fighting to turn my eyes and guilt away from my sins because my nature wants to focus in on how sinful I am and how I didn't deny my flesh- how I literally sinned willingly and instead it feels like God is giving me the wisdom to place my mind on something more amazing and GREATER- which is him and his Holy Spirit- not because I deserve it- or earned it because of my willingness to openly talk to him about it- even knowing I knew better-but because of HIS MERCY and LOVE for me and it is the same love he has for all of us. Why would he go through all that torture for us if he didn't love us? While he was being crucified people were still sinning. I think that says a LOT. So to answer your question- HE is becoming greater than what I did and what I ever have done or ever will do. He is also giving me a peace about this I didn't have at first or think I could have. I predicted I would be utterly depressed and broken by now but God is giving me a peace to press on. If anything, I feel a pressing in my spirit that most people wrestle with this very issue but are not always willing to confess it - which is something God doesn't like- he wants us to confess our sins to him and each other. I don't know about anyone else but I don't receive many calls or e-mails confessing their struggle to deny their flesh in this sense. What makes my situation worse is this is the first time in my walk I ever felt the Holy Spirit present and speaking to me in the content of my sin and I still continued- I justified it by saying "at least I am not watching pornography or anything evil like that!" - it doesn't matter- God asks us to deny ourselves pleasure in that sense- a pleasures that is meant for husband and wife. I was experiencing thoughts of Holy things like a new fact I discovered recently of Jesus being at the Eastern Gate when he returns that I now truly believe God was using to steer me back to him and I dimissed it as thoughts I was having just because I love God and I think on those things anyway etc....it is hard to explain what I am trying to describe unless you were in my mind - God knows- he was there - and I still tried to shut it out for my sinful nature so that I didn't feel guilty- or believe the lie that masterbation is not a sin so that I could feel justified- yet he still forgave me- Describing in detail my sin like this to you is hard because of how it makes me look-but perhaps someone listening to this and wrestling with guilt over their own sin issue can be motivated to turn away from it and turn towards God -knowing they are not in this battle alone and there is a LOVING God that is waiting with open arms for them - but he is not going to force those arms on us. If God wants to use my experience to help another- then I am willing to allow him to use me. I think a Christian can take two roads in my situation- the one that leads to hell by continuing on with feelings of guilt and shame, and hardening a heart that is giving up the fight, or the one that leads to life in him-with a heart that wants to toss their sin in the furnace and give their heart to Jesus Christ always with the intention to have him restore it and use it for his purpose- I choose HIM.
Thank you.
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RE: Hebews 10:26 & Hebrews 6:6 - 6/29/2009 12:46:44 PM
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DaveW
Posts: 3797
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
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Back when I was in college in Michigan (during one of those cold blizzardy winters in Lansing) the pastor of the church I attended gave this analogy - very fitting for the season at the time. THis is my paraphrase of his words.
You can try to rid yourself of sin. As hard as you can. It is just like trying to keep the snow cleared off of your car. No matter how hard you brush or how often, in a few minutes or hours it will be completely covered again.
Now if you clean off enough to see and drive, and you go south toward the sun (SON) the snow will not stick, and by the time you get to Florida, where is all the snow you were trying so hard to keep swept off?
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RE: Hebews 10:26 & Hebrews 6:6 - 6/29/2009 1:06:33 PM
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DaveW
Posts: 3797
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
Status: online
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Please believe that you do not "look bad" to me (and to no one else who has ever struggled with one sin or another). Humbling yourself before God and confessing weakness is precious in His sight.
I cannot directly address your struggle as it would be very inappropriate (and a TOS violation) for me to do so; but suffice it to say I understand, and a part of me mourns (perhaps in intercession) for all who have to go thru that.
You certainly have my prayers.
_____________________________
Avatar is my daughter Laura and SIL David on their wedding 9/20/09 ====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: Hebews 10:26 & Hebrews 6:6 - 6/29/2009 1:59:08 PM
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supernova1976
Posts: 350
Joined: 9/3/2008
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God BLESS you you DaveW. This anaology and your heart in this matter truly helps me.
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RE: Hebews 10:26 & Hebrews 6:6 - 7/1/2009 5:51:18 PM
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19ramman85
Posts: 360
Joined: 4/10/2008
From: Sandusky, MI
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
What is the truth that we have received knowledge of? Is it not everything that has just been presented in Hebrews 10:1-25. That sacrifices and offerings are not what God desires, even though the old covenant did require those things. That God has set aside the first covenant to establish the second. And that by this new covenant...
"we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all." Heb. 10:10
"because by one sacrifice He has made perfect forever those who are being made holy." Heb. 10:14
Then He adds: "Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more." Heb. 10:17
It is because of this truth, that we now have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place; to draw near to God without guilt and in full assurance, through our faith in Him.
This is the truth that we have received. And it is to those who reject this truth, that Hebrews 10:26-27 is addressing. To reject this truth, is to reject Jesus Christ and His finished work; it is to reject the forgiveness and reconciliation that His death has provided - making it impossible to ever receive the life that His resurrection offers. It is to continue sinning, by continuing in your unbelief. For if you continue in your unbelief, there is no hope of salvation for you; there is only the fearful expectation of judgement and of raging fire, because you have chosen to remain an enemy of God, by your rejection of Christ and His finished work.
Peace
So you are saying that if a person hears the turth and rejects it and continues in thier sin; then at a later date they do believe that it will do them no good, and they will be rejected?
Is that really what you are saying?
Thanks
RC
I don't think that's what they meant at all rc ......... I believe they are refering to those people who are like some hard-core atheist's I know/known - refusing the truth, even past thier last breath!
-charles
< Message edited by 19ramman85 -- 7/1/2009 6:15:47 PM >
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RE: Hebews 10:26 & Hebrews 6:6 - 7/3/2009 1:24:12 PM
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hanaaadib
Posts: 1
Joined: 7/3/2009
Status: offline
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hi there supernova
I'm new here and the topic (hebrews 6:6) attracted my attention because I sometimes worry about it too. In fact I have really bad days when I believe that in spite of knowing for sure that Jesus is my salvation, I feel like rejecting Him and I feel that my will or my volition (whatever) is in total opposition to God's. I end up in a dark pit of despair. It usually starts by shock and disappointment at my inability and unwillingness to be as I should be. It never lasts though, I usually snap out of it knowing that I'll never be as I should be, this side of heaven. I am shocked at my sins partly because I'm too proud to admit that I'm a sinner. Anyway I have found it helpful on my bad days to paraphrase John Bunyan in the PP saying: To go back is certain death, to go forward is fear of death with everlasting joy beyond. I've also read it somewhere: If you're worrying that you've committed the unforgivable sin, you have'nt. Those who commit it never give it a second thought.
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RE: Hebews 10:26 & Hebrews 6:6 - 7/3/2009 1:32:51 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 6723
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 19ramman85
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
What is the truth that we have received knowledge of? Is it not everything that has just been presented in Hebrews 10:1-25. That sacrifices and offerings are not what God desires, even though the old covenant did require those things. That God has set aside the first covenant to establish the second. And that by this new covenant...
"we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all." Heb. 10:10
"because by one sacrifice He has made perfect forever those who are being made holy." Heb. 10:14
Then He adds: "Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more." Heb. 10:17
It is because of this truth, that we now have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place; to draw near to God without guilt and in full assurance, through our faith in Him.
This is the truth that we have received. And it is to those who reject this truth, that Hebrews 10:26-27 is addressing. To reject this truth, is to reject Jesus Christ and His finished work; it is to reject the forgiveness and reconciliation that His death has provided - making it impossible to ever receive the life that His resurrection offers. It is to continue sinning, by continuing in your unbelief. For if you continue in your unbelief, there is no hope of salvation for you; there is only the fearful expectation of judgement and of raging fire, because you have chosen to remain an enemy of God, by your rejection of Christ and His finished work.
Peace
So you are saying that if a person hears the turth and rejects it and continues in thier sin; then at a later date they do believe that it will do them no good, and they will be rejected?
Is that really what you are saying?
Thanks
RC
I don't think that's what they meant at all rc ......... I believe they are refering to those people who are like some hard-core atheist's I know/known - refusing the truth, even past thier last breath!
-charles
But would not the willful sin also apply to those who recieved (not heard, but recieved) (or at least thought they had recieved the truth) and felt they were Christians?
Would not that same indignation also apply to "saved" folks that continue in willful sin?
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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