Hebews 10:26 & Hebrews 6:6 (Full Version)

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supernova1976 -> Hebews 10:26 & Hebrews 6:6 (6/27/2009 9:02:34 AM)

Hebrews 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.” (KJV)


Hebrews 10:26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,


Doesn't this scare anyone? I have to admit I have willfully sinned in this past week, nothing criminal but in God's kingdom it is a crime. What is left for me? what is left for anyone after reading this passage? I know that God knows my weakness, but I cannot deny the truth, there are times I turn my back on Christ in order to engage in sin. I am a wretch and always will be.



rcjames -> RE: Hebews 10:26 & Hebrews 6:6 (6/27/2009 10:09:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: supernova1976

Hebrews 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.” (KJV)


Hebrews 10:26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,


Doesn't this scare anyone? I have to admit I have willfully sinned in this past week, nothing criminal but in God's kingdom it is a crime. What is left for me? what is left for anyone after reading this passage? I know that God knows my weakness, but I cannot deny the truth, there are times I turn my back on Christ in order to engage in sin. I am a wretch and always will be.


When a very young Christian, these verses had a most important affect on my walk with the Lord. They drove me to the Scriptures to see what God says about our ability as Spirit filled Believers to overcome sin. I found that we could by the Grace of God, the Sacrifice of Christ and our following after the Spirit and not after the flesh. The truth is if we follow after the Sprit and not after the flesh there is no comdemnation for us;

(Rom 8:1) There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

And so over 50 years later here I am a Holiness minister teaching folks what I have learned.

Thanks
RC



supernova1976 -> RE: Hebews 10:26 & Hebrews 6:6 (6/27/2009 10:25:50 AM)

Thanks. I think I am making some headway here in the past hour too- the sin I once enjoyed isn't even all that fun anymore as much as it is a habit like chewing gum that I think I need or something. It's dumb- it's Jesus Christ I need and that's it. I shouldn't be so dumb, yet I am so dumb at times. It is like playing russian roulette with your soul. God is giving me a power of peace and not of fear and wants me to stop putting my hand on a hot stove- yet I keep doing just that- it's just so dumb. ( I am referring to gratifying the flesh btw- in case it might be of help to another person reading this) at this point, I care not of anything but helping another with the same issues I have. Who cares how it makes me look you know? we are to confess our sins to each other. With that said, with my issue I have to wonder "Why do we do this to ourselves?" it's ridiculous. I even have done this pre-meditating thing like- "yeah I know it's wrong, but I can't help it, and I will ask for forgiveness later and I will try to change later". This is like what we do with diets- "um yeah I will stop tomorrow, right now the cheesecake is just too good". Seriously guys, I am just as guilty of this so I am not judging anyone, but what are we saying to God when we do this? It's so dumb.



URForgiven -> RE: Hebews 10:26 & Hebrews 6:6 (6/27/2009 10:45:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: supernova1976

Hebrews 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.” (KJV)


Hebrews 10:26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,



What is the truth that we have received knowledge of? Is it not everything that has just been presented in Hebrews 10:1-25. That sacrifices and offerings are not what God desires, even though the old covenant did require those things. That God has set aside the first covenant to establish the second. And that by this new covenant...

"we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all." Heb. 10:10

"because by one sacrifice He has made perfect forever those who are being made holy." Heb. 10:14

Then He adds: "Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more." Heb. 10:17

It is because of this truth, that we now have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place; to draw near to God without guilt and in full assurance, through our faith in Him.

This is the truth that we have received. And it is to those who reject this truth, that Hebrews 10:26-27 is addressing. To reject this truth, is to reject Jesus Christ and His finished work; it is to reject the forgiveness and reconciliation that His death has provided - making it impossible to ever receive the life that His resurrection offers. It is to continue sinning, by continuing in your unbelief. For if you continue in your unbelief, there is no hope of salvation for you; there is only the fearful expectation of judgement and of raging fire, because you have chosen to remain an enemy of God, by your rejection of Christ and His finished work.

Peace



RustyCarr -> RE: Hebews 10:26 & Hebrews 6:6 (6/27/2009 10:54:33 AM)

Supernova, you are being led by the Holy Spirit to verses that convict. These words were written by Paul to convict those who were straying from the Truth. It is worthwhile to keep these verses in mind in order to use them for strength in the future, for remaining in Christ.

But, notice that Paul is speaking in the plural. "They," "them," "those," "we," Paul is speaking to the nation of Isreal and the church. He is powerfully exhorting to holiness. Indeed, if we willfully "put Christ to shame" by willfully being hypocrits and continually using the Word to justify liscentiousness, God will give us over to our sins. We (the ill church) will become useless to Him and He will allow our sins to expose the fact that we (the ill church) are not of Him. Then those who want to be at His wedding banquet will be able to see the error and leave it behind, and leave behind those who teach error.

But, remember the words of David, a man after God's own heart. He sinned while he was filled with a love of God's Truth. He put the nation to shame by committing adultery and murder. And David was forgiven. He suffered consequences, but he was allowed to remain in God's favor. David prayed: Ps 51:10 Create in me a pure heart, O God, and renew a steadfast spirit within me. Read the entire Psalm 51.

Notice the entire verses surrounding the verses that you have quoted in your OP. Here are two:
Heb 6:8 But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.
If ill churches produce thorns and thistles....
Heb 6:9 Even though we speak like this, dear friends, we are confident of better things in your case—things that accompany salvation.

Paul is exhorting again, and WE need to pay attention. WE being the WHOLE church. I honestly believe most of our personal battles with sin would be easier overcome if we were surrounded by others who (though they struggle at times, too) are happy, wholesome, and full of God's Spirit which gives them a heart full of wisdom which leads to a heart full of joy and rejoicing in worship of our Creator. We need strong happy wholesome wise friends. But they are hard to find today. I am not talking about a blind fluffy happiness in the church that crumbles under adversity, I am talking about a mature happiness that meets adversity with the Truth and stands up to nonsense, injustice, sin, and error boldly.

Supernova, do the best you can. Keep going to the Word. You are sensitive and sensible. Let God mature you, but if you do this, you will find few who are with you on the narrow path. On your walk, continue to test scripture. Prove it to your soul. God will give you wisdom, and you may be used by Him to help bring the WHOLE church back to the Truth. It needs to get back....

2Ch 7:14 If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.

Let the word of God convict you. Do better next time, but don't beat yourself up to the point of destroying yourself. I still love your posts. I wish I could be there for support. We need friends as we walk and renew our minds to conform to God's wisdom, Truth, and love. We are told to be of one mind, but churches today resist submitting to the Word and one another on God's page. If I say something profound and True in church and someone doesn't like it, he will simply walk away. No friendship there, no exhorting and holding each other accountable... this is because so many people have only babies milk knowledge and they can't stomach the meat.

Blessings,
Rusty



deermousie -> RE: Hebews 10:26 & Hebrews 6:6 (6/27/2009 10:57:16 AM)

Besides the book of Revelation, there are two chapters in the Bible that people like to discuss over and over because it's not clear what they mean: Hebrews 6 and 10.

One of the rules of Scripture interpretation (Hermeneutics) is that a verse has to agree with the rest of Scripture. It's one big organic whole, and God never changes His mind about anything.

So what does the rest of Scripture say about the believer's security? RCJames gave you Romans 8:1. Jesus said the Father gave Him believers and no one can take them out of His hand. Our sin is forever separated from us as far as the east is from the west (look at a globe and figure how far that is! [:D]). 1 John 1: 8,9 says that we all sin and we are to confess it and God forgives it. It's a legal issue: God the Judge has banged His gavel and declared you forgiven by the blood of Jesus, because in His grace you have faith. Jesus is the Author and Finisher of our faith, not us.

There is only one unforgivable sin, and I don't think a Christian is capable of doing it: blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. That means a person publically and deliberately speaks untruth about Him. Matt. 12:31. It's like the opposite of the person who says Jesus is Lord. 1 Cor. 12:3 The reason I say we can't do it is that God has given us the Holy Spirit as a down payment (look at Eph. 1:13,14); we already are His.

Yes, we are all wretches, Supernova, and it's us saved people who know it. We were so helpless in our sin, like a baby lying in a sewer, that God had to rescue us at Calvary. Paul says we were bought out of the slave market of sin; slaves are helpless. Jesus rose from the dead because all sin was paid for and death (the price of sin) died. We aren't hurt by the Second Death (look it up in the concordance in my sig line), which is when a person stands before God at the Great White Throne of Judgement and they are sent to hell because their name is not found in the Lamb's Book of Life. That's the second death - those of us who belong to Jesus aren't affected by it, but we are invited to enter God's Kingdom of Joy. Life. Look it up in the Bible, it's all there.

To God be the glory, great things He has done,
and great our rejoicing in Jesus the Son!

C'mon, Supernova - let's dance!



Liveloved -> RE: Hebews 10:26 & Hebrews 6:6 (6/27/2009 11:02:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: URForgiven

quote:

ORIGINAL: supernova1976

Hebrews 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.” (KJV)


Hebrews 10:26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,



What is the truth that we have received knowledge of? Is it not everything that has just been presented in Hebrews 10:1-25. That sacrifices and offerings are not what God desires, even though the old covenant did require those things. That God has set aside the first covenant to establish the second. And that by this new covenant...

"we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all." Heb. 10:10

"because by one sacrifice He has made perfect forever those who are being made holy." Heb. 10:14

Then He adds: "Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more." Heb. 10:17

It is because of this truth, that we now have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place; to draw near to God without guilt and in full assurance, through our faith in Him.

This is the truth that we have received. And it is to those who reject this truth, that Hebrews 10:26-27 is addressing. To reject this truth, is to reject Jesus Christ and His finished work; it is to reject the forgiveness and reconciliation that His death has provided - making it impossible to ever receive the life that His resurrection offers. It is to continue sinning, by continuing in your unbelief. For if you continue in your unbelief, there is no hope of salvation for you; there is only the fearful expectation of judgement and of raging fire, because you have chosen to remain an enemy of God, by your rejection of Christ and His finished work.

Peace


This is exactly what I was going to say [:D] and I know URF won't mind my borrowing it. He shares.

Supernova1976,
Your salvation does not depend upon you. If it did, Jesus would not have had to die. Your salvation fully depends upon the finished work of Christ. Believe it. Trust Him. Thank Him. Praise Him. Receive all He has for you---including and especially the confidence that He has a strong hold on you and will never let you go.

Sin? I do. Confess it. Don't be proud. Don't justify it. Don't rationalize it. Also don't be overscrupulous (you know nitpicky). When you know you've sinned, confess it as sin. It often helps to confess to another outloud. James 5 tells us to do so and to pray for one another and be healed.

You are precious to the Lord. He has promised to complete the work He had begun in you. Rejoice! Liveloved



sparkleingsnow -> RE: Hebews 10:26 & Hebrews 6:6 (6/27/2009 11:16:02 AM)

I think your opening question has been answered very well, as to you "why" question, here is what Paul had to say.

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Yes it is dumb, but then while we are in the flesh we can be very dumb. For as others have said we are made righteous through the blood of Jesus Christ. :)



supernova1976 -> RE: Hebews 10:26 & Hebrews 6:6 (6/27/2009 11:30:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RustyCarr

Supernova, you are being led by the Holy Spirit to verses that convict. These words were written by Paul to convict those who were straying from the Truth. It is worthwhile to keep these verses in mind in order to use them for strength in the future, for remaining in Christ.

But, notice that Paul is speaking in the plural. "They," "them," "those," "we," Paul is speaking to the nation of Isreal and the church. He is powerfully exhorting to holiness. Indeed, if we willfully "put Christ to shame" by willfully being hypocrits and continually using the Word to justify liscentiousness, God will give us over to our sins. We (the ill church) will become useless to Him and He will allow our sins to expose the fact that we (the ill church) are not of Him. Then those who want to be at His wedding banquet will be able to see the error and leave it behind, and leave behind those who teach error.

But, remember the words of David, a man after God's own heart. He sinned while he was filled with a love of God's Truth. He put the nation to shame by committing adultery and murder. And David was forgiven. He suffered consequences, but he was allowed to remain in God's favor. David prayed: Ps 51:10 Create in me a pure heart, O God, and renew a steadfast spirit within me. Read the entire Psalm 51.

Notice the entire verses surrounding the verses that you have quoted in your OP. Here are two:
Heb 6:8 But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.
If ill churches produce thorns and thistles....
Heb 6:9 Even though we speak like this, dear friends, we are confident of better things in your case—things that accompany salvation.

Paul is exhorting again, and WE need to pay attention. WE being the WHOLE church. I honestly believe most of our personal battles with sin would be easier overcome if we were surrounded by others who (though they struggle at times, too) are happy, wholesome, and full of God's Spirit which gives them a heart full of wisdom which leads to a heart full of joy and rejoicing in worship of our Creator. We need strong happy wholesome wise friends. But they are hard to find today. I am not talking about a blind fluffy happiness in the church that crumbles under adversity, I am talking about a mature happiness that meets adversity with the Truth and stands up to nonsense, injustice, sin, and error boldly.

Supernova, do the best you can. Keep going to the Word. You are sensitive and sensible. Let God mature you, but if you do this, you will find few who are with you on the narrow path. On your walk, continue to test scripture. Prove it to your soul. God will give you wisdom, and you may be used by Him to help bring the WHOLE church back to the Truth. It needs to get back....

2Ch 7:14 If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.

Let the word of God convict you. Do better next time, but don't beat yourself up to the point of destroying yourself. I still love your posts. I wish I could be there for support. We need friends as we walk and renew our minds to conform to God's wisdom, Truth, and love. We are told to be of one mind, but churches today resist submitting to the Word and one another on God's page. If I say something profound and True in church and someone doesn't like it, he will simply walk away. No friendship there, no exhorting and holding each other accountable... this is because so many people have only babies milk knowledge and they can't stomach the meat.

Blessings,
Rusty


Rusty- you have been such a good friend to me on here. Thank you for being honest with me. Thank you for writing all this and thank you for your honesty. So many other people would just tell me that it is not a sin and it isn't listed in the bible as sin. What is listed in the Bible however is God's Holy Spirit and he gives us a conscience. A conscience that tells us that we are called to something higher than this. A conscience that tells us "stop that" or "do this" even at the point of knowing full well we have the power to stop and yet we still choose our way. We can obey or ignore the voice of God. We can reach out to have our ears tickled or we could search for others to give us the truth. It would be nice to be married and this would no longer be a struggle for me, but I need to go to God in prayer as to how to accept that THAT might never happen while I am here on earth and to give me the power to overcome my sinful nature. It really would be better for all of us if we were honest with God, each other and ourselves and not be afraid to call sin SIN. I believe he wants us to confess our sins to each other so we would realize we are all facing a battle and the worst thing to do is deal with it alone. That is what Satan wants- until you start spinning. If you realize there are others facing these issues you would realize you are not alone and even seemingly altogether Christians have a bad day. Let's not be afraid to call sin what it is- SIN-That is what it is. I can stomach the meat, what I cannot stomach anymore is putting God's word to shame when I choose to sin. I'm not saying this is all easy- being a Christian is the hardest thing you will ever do if you really truly follow and obey to the best of your ability. Thanks Rusty.



supernova1976 -> RE: Hebews 10:26 & Hebrews 6:6 (6/27/2009 11:35:59 AM)

To everyone else also thank you so much for taking the time to reach out to me so that I may stay on the path- that is if there is still hope for me- your reward in heaven will be great.



rcjames -> RE: Hebews 10:26 & Hebrews 6:6 (6/27/2009 12:04:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: URForgiven
What is the truth that we have received knowledge of? Is it not everything that has just been presented in Hebrews 10:1-25. That sacrifices and offerings are not what God desires, even though the old covenant did require those things. That God has set aside the first covenant to establish the second. And that by this new covenant...

"we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all." Heb. 10:10

"because by one sacrifice He has made perfect forever those who are being made holy." Heb. 10:14

Then He adds: "Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more." Heb. 10:17

It is because of this truth, that we now have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place; to draw near to God without guilt and in full assurance, through our faith in Him.

This is the truth that we have received. And it is to those who reject this truth, that Hebrews 10:26-27 is addressing. To reject this truth, is to reject Jesus Christ and His finished work; it is to reject the forgiveness and reconciliation that His death has provided - making it impossible to ever receive the life that His resurrection offers. It is to continue sinning, by continuing in your unbelief. For if you continue in your unbelief, there is no hope of salvation for you; there is only the fearful expectation of judgement and of raging fire, because you have chosen to remain an enemy of God, by your rejection of Christ and His finished work.

Peace


So you are saying that if a person hears the turth and rejects it and continues in thier sin; then at a later date they do believe that it will do them no good, and they will be rejected?

Is that really what you are saying?

Thanks
RC



x_SoliDeoGloria_x -> RE: Hebews 10:26 & Hebrews 6:6 (6/27/2009 12:11:25 PM)

quote:

that is if there is still hope for me


Why wouldn't there be hope for you? Are you familiar with the hymn "My Hope Is Built on Nothing Less"?

My hope is built on nothing less
Than Jesus blood and righteousness;
No merit of my own I claim,
But wholly lean on Jesus' name.

Remember, your hope is based on Jesus' righteousness, not yours.



supernova1976 -> RE: Hebews 10:26 & Hebrews 6:6 (6/27/2009 12:27:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

quote:

ORIGINAL: URForgiven
What is the truth that we have received knowledge of? Is it not everything that has just been presented in Hebrews 10:1-25. That sacrifices and offerings are not what God desires, even though the old covenant did require those things. That God has set aside the first covenant to establish the second. And that by this new covenant...

"we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all." Heb. 10:10

"because by one sacrifice He has made perfect forever those who are being made holy." Heb. 10:14

Then He adds: "Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more." Heb. 10:17

It is because of this truth, that we now have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place; to draw near to God without guilt and in full assurance, through our faith in Him.

This is the truth that we have received. And it is to those who reject this truth, that Hebrews 10:26-27 is addressing. To reject this truth, is to reject Jesus Christ and His finished work; it is to reject the forgiveness and reconciliation that His death has provided - making it impossible to ever receive the life that His resurrection offers. It is to continue sinning, by continuing in your unbelief. For if you continue in your unbelief, there is no hope of salvation for you; there is only the fearful expectation of judgement and of raging fire, because you have chosen to remain an enemy of God, by your rejection of Christ and His finished work.

Peace


So you are saying that if a person hears the turth and rejects it and continues in thier sin; then at a later date they do believe that it will do them no good, and they will be rejected?

Is that really what you are saying?

Thanks
RC



Honestly- at this point, I expect to be in hell and get what I deserve and will be surprised if I walk the streets of gold with our heavenly Father. I will continue to love others and love him with all that I have left of me anyway, because I truly would hate to see anyone go to hell and be seperated from God forever.



supernova1976 -> RE: Hebews 10:26 & Hebrews 6:6 (6/27/2009 12:29:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: x_SoliDeoGloria_x

quote:

that is if there is still hope for me


Why wouldn't there be hope for you? Are you familiar with the hymn "My Hope Is Built on Nothing Less"?

My hope is built on nothing less
Than Jesus blood and righteousness;
No merit of my own I claim,
But wholly lean on Jesus' name.

Remember, your hope is based on Jesus' righteousness, not yours.


Thank you. What a blessing to read this. Your an encourager



URForgiven -> RE: Hebews 10:26 & Hebrews 6:6 (6/27/2009 12:44:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

quote:

ORIGINAL: URForgiven
What is the truth that we have received knowledge of? Is it not everything that has just been presented in Hebrews 10:1-25. That sacrifices and offerings are not what God desires, even though the old covenant did require those things. That God has set aside the first covenant to establish the second. And that by this new covenant...

"we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all." Heb. 10:10

"because by one sacrifice He has made perfect forever those who are being made holy." Heb. 10:14

Then He adds: "Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more." Heb. 10:17

It is because of this truth, that we now have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place; to draw near to God without guilt and in full assurance, through our faith in Him.

This is the truth that we have received. And it is to those who reject this truth, that Hebrews 10:26-27 is addressing. To reject this truth, is to reject Jesus Christ and His finished work; it is to reject the forgiveness and reconciliation that His death has provided - making it impossible to ever receive the life that His resurrection offers. It is to continue sinning, by continuing in your unbelief. For if you continue in your unbelief, there is no hope of salvation for you; there is only the fearful expectation of judgement and of raging fire, because you have chosen to remain an enemy of God, by your rejection of Christ and His finished work.

Peace


So you are saying that if a person hears the turth and rejects it and continues in thier sin; then at a later date they do believe that it will do them no good, and they will be rejected?

Is that really what you are saying?

Thanks
RC


To continue sinning, means just that RC. Surely you have known people who stubbornly refuse to accept that it is Christ and Christ alone who justifies, who sanctifies and who saves? People who refuse to believe that God remembers their sins and lawless acts no more? People who believe instead that it is through their own self effort that they are made acceptable to God. These are those to whom these passages are directed to.

Peace



supernova1976 -> RE: Hebews 10:26 & Hebrews 6:6 (6/27/2009 12:47:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: URForgiven

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

quote:

ORIGINAL: URForgiven
What is the truth that we have received knowledge of? Is it not everything that has just been presented in Hebrews 10:1-25. That sacrifices and offerings are not what God desires, even though the old covenant did require those things. That God has set aside the first covenant to establish the second. And that by this new covenant...

"we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all." Heb. 10:10

"because by one sacrifice He has made perfect forever those who are being made holy." Heb. 10:14

Then He adds: "Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more." Heb. 10:17

It is because of this truth, that we now have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place; to draw near to God without guilt and in full assurance, through our faith in Him.

This is the truth that we have received. And it is to those who reject this truth, that Hebrews 10:26-27 is addressing. To reject this truth, is to reject Jesus Christ and His finished work; it is to reject the forgiveness and reconciliation that His death has provided - making it impossible to ever receive the life that His resurrection offers. It is to continue sinning, by continuing in your unbelief. For if you continue in your unbelief, there is no hope of salvation for you; there is only the fearful expectation of judgement and of raging fire, because you have chosen to remain an enemy of God, by your rejection of Christ and His finished work.

Peace


So you are saying that if a person hears the turth and rejects it and continues in thier sin; then at a later date they do believe that it will do them no good, and they will be rejected?

Is that really what you are saying?

Thanks
RC


To continue sinning, means just that RC. Surely you have known people who stubbornly refuse to accept that it is Christ and Christ alone who justifies, who sanctifies and who saves? People who refuse to believe that God remembers their sins and lawless acts no more? People who believe instead that it is through their own self effort that they are made acceptable to God. These are those to whom these passages are directed to.

Peace



I am a littel confused by the disagreement here. Can you elaborate? are you saying that God will have mercy on me and strenghten me to live in his ways and overcome this totally? or am I doomed? either way, I expect that I am doomed.



rcjames -> RE: Hebews 10:26 & Hebrews 6:6 (6/27/2009 12:59:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: supernova1976
Honestly- at this point, I expect to be in hell and get what I deserve and will be surprised if I walk the streets of gold with our heavenly Father. I will continue to love others and love him with all that I have left of me anyway, because I truly would hate to see anyone go to hell and be seperated from God forever.


Supernova, I am not making a judgment of your position in the Faith, but will share something with you that I share with all.

Paul wrote to the Christians in Corinth that they should;

(2Co 13:5) Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

And this is very wise counsel. If after examining ourselves we find that we are not of the Faith; then this is not a slam, but a wake up call to go back to the Word and to God and get it correct.

One thing to look for when we examine ourselves is;

(2Co 5:17) Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Are we really "New Creatures" or are we the same. Has the 'Old man really been crucified;

(Rom 6:6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Or are we serving sin.

Jesus speaks of folks who thought they were Christian, but sadly were not;

(Mat 7:20) Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

(Mat 7:21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

(Mat 7:22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

(Mat 7:23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Now if these poor folks had examined themselves and found that there were not of the Faith, that they were not new creatures, that they were still working iniquity; then they would have had the opportunity to have correct this very grave mistake.

I know that I will get slammed for writing this, but I had a lot rather cause a Christian to examine themselves and for them to find that they are in the Faith, that to tell a lost person that they are secure and send them on thier merry way to destruction.

I recommend that folks who are wrestling with sins that they cannot overcome to study the Word, lock themselves in a room, and bare it all to God. Not from the point that I know I think I am a Believer, and because I think I am a Believer I know that sin does not matter; but from the point of, God, be merciful to me a poor sinner, and show me what I must do to truly be a Child of Yours.

It is not to later for you, God is waiting for you to reach out and be honest with Him, confess to Him, repent and show you love Him;

(Joh 14:21) He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Thanks
RC



makarizo -> RE: Hebews 10:26 & Hebrews 6:6 (6/27/2009 1:07:39 PM)

subernova. have a little faith in God.
If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved &
if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness, &
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus. &
Everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved, &
if we hope for what we don not see, with perseverance we wait eagerly for it and in the same way the Spirit also helps our weekness for we do not know how to pray as we should but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words and He who searches the hearts, knows what the mind of the Spirit is because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God, and we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God to those who He forknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that we would be fhe firstborn among many,
If God is for us, who can be against us........
Who will separate us from the love of Christ??? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril or sword?
........
I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, or heighth, or depth, or any other created thing will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.


you should memorize that too!!!!



supernova1976 -> RE: Hebews 10:26 & Hebrews 6:6 (6/27/2009 1:21:31 PM)

Thanks to both of you. I really want to live for him every second and my flesh fights and I let it win. I am totally responsible and even know and see it happening. I battle intrusive thoughts too- thank you both so much. Thank you RC for your honesty and you will not be slammed my dear brother!:) not at all- not by the one that matters! Jesus Christ our Lord- you care about souls going to hell- you took time to care about mine!:) God Bless You! You had the courage to do so and even if you get slammed, more rewards in heaven for you! to be hated for Christ's sake is great evidence that you are in the faith. God calls us to care for the lost. Thank you for caring for me. I am being honest with God- I hate fighting this battle every day- I want this all to go away and I was weak and the rest is between me and God but I know he knows my heart and I hope he takes it and says "here is what I want it to be" "here is what I want to protect it from" , "here is the renewed mind I want you to have so that Satan cannot have his way with you"- don't you see? these are not judgments? these are warnings from God so that we do not perish. I am a parent, if I caught my child in sin, I would scream with a wind so harsh to save him that it would cause his knees to tremble and bow at my feet. I believe with all my heart, Satan is doing his best to destroy me, I have so many things I want to do for the Lord and I should see all this, but I don't focus on it. I had a nightmare that was not fun, I am drawn to doors that are being opened and instead of putting on the armor it is like I am just taking a "whatever" kind of mentality and this cannot be from God- I am praying for the strength to tell Satan the next time to get out of my face so that if I am in that act and I hear God's voice saying "I called you to something higher than this" that I cease, and I get up and run to his arms with a heartfelt apology and shame on my face that only God alone could restore. Thank all of you for being a source of comfort and direction to me.



deermousie -> RE: Hebews 10:26 & Hebrews 6:6 (6/27/2009 1:50:57 PM)

We are all sinners. All we deserve is death and hell. But God had pity on us and loved us, and died to pay the price we should have paid so we could have the life He does have.

It's a free gift, and not based on merit (or, as Mark Twain said, our dogs would go to heaven and we wouldn't) but on grace that comes from God.

He chose us to come to Him, be saved and get power to live for Him and become like Him. We come with empty hands, and He fills us. We come dirty, and He washed us. We came guilty, and He justified us. We come, because He chose us to come (some of us kicking and screaming the whole way. Sinful people are stupid people! [:D]).

Why wouldn't we be jumping up and down? We're going to heaven!!!! Yay!!! What a tremendous gift, and what a wonderful God! It makes me want to live for Him, like a little kid adoring and wanting to help a beloved parent.

And the devil is a liar and a murderer, and he'd love to keep you from finding out what is yours in God. He wants you to doubt your salvation when God made it clear it's already yours. The devil wants you to be scared, emotionally tied up in a knot, and useless.

This may be a true story; dunno: Martin Luther woke up in the middle of the night, saw the devil standing next to his bed, said, "Oh, it's just you," rolled over and went back to sleep.

Ha! James 4:7 says to resist the devil and he must flee. It also says God inhabits the praises of His people. So you can tell the devil to buzz off, thank God for His mercy and love, and get on with your day with joy in your heart.

I was once in the cathedral in York, England, and saw a grave inscription that said, "So and So departed this world in the full confidence of a joyous resurrection" (or that's pretty close). Amen!
It was a woman who died I think in 1571 - if anyone is ever there and can find her name, I'd love to know what it was. 400 years later, I got the same faith, and I want to call her by name when I meet her at last. [:)] There will be dancing.



supernova1976 -> RE: Hebews 10:26 & Hebrews 6:6 (6/27/2009 1:54:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: deermousie

We are all sinners. All we deserve is death and hell. But God had pity on us and loved us, and died to pay the price we should have paid so we could have the life He does have.

It's a free gift, and not based on merit (or, as Mark Twain said, our dogs would go to heaven and we wouldn't) but on grace that comes from God.

He chose us to come to Him, be saved and get power to live for Him and become like Him. We come with empty hands, and He fills us. We come dirty, and He washed us. We came guilty, and He justified us. We come, because He chose us to come (some of us kicking and screaming the whole way. Sinful people are stupid people! [:D])

Why wouldn't we be jumping up and down? We're going to heaven!!!! Yay!!! What a tremendous gift, and what a wonderful God! It makes me want to live for Him, like a little kid adoring and wanting to help a beloved parent.



God Bless YOU! deermousie! Your precious.


Is it possible that me desiring to read my Bible today is God's way of saying to me "let's try this again?" and he does want to see me saved and with him so we can be in a place where sin is non existent and desires are not to be present? I hope this is his way of calling me back, disciplining me and setting me straight.



URForgiven -> RE: Hebews 10:26 & Hebrews 6:6 (6/27/2009 1:56:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: supernova1976

quote:

ORIGINAL: URForgiven

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

quote:

ORIGINAL: URForgiven
What is the truth that we have received knowledge of? Is it not everything that has just been presented in Hebrews 10:1-25. That sacrifices and offerings are not what God desires, even though the old covenant did require those things. That God has set aside the first covenant to establish the second. And that by this new covenant...

"we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all." Heb. 10:10

"because by one sacrifice He has made perfect forever those who are being made holy." Heb. 10:14

Then He adds: "Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more." Heb. 10:17

It is because of this truth, that we now have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place; to draw near to God without guilt and in full assurance, through our faith in Him.

This is the truth that we have received. And it is to those who reject this truth, that Hebrews 10:26-27 is addressing. To reject this truth, is to reject Jesus Christ and His finished work; it is to reject the forgiveness and reconciliation that His death has provided - making it impossible to ever receive the life that His resurrection offers. It is to continue sinning, by continuing in your unbelief. For if you continue in your unbelief, there is no hope of salvation for you; there is only the fearful expectation of judgement and of raging fire, because you have chosen to remain an enemy of God, by your rejection of Christ and His finished work.

Peace


So you are saying that if a person hears the turth and rejects it and continues in thier sin; then at a later date they do believe that it will do them no good, and they will be rejected?

Is that really what you are saying?

Thanks
RC


To continue sinning, means just that RC. Surely you have known people who stubbornly refuse to accept that it is Christ and Christ alone who justifies, who sanctifies and who saves? People who refuse to believe that God remembers their sins and lawless acts no more? People who believe instead that it is through their own self effort that they are made acceptable to God. These are those to whom these passages are directed to.

Peace



I am a littel confused by the disagreement here. Can you elaborate? are you saying that God will have mercy on me and strenghten me to live in his ways and overcome this totally? or am I doomed? either way, I expect that I am doomed.


If you are a Christian then you have received life, eternal life, Christ's life. He lives in you the life you cannot, nor did He ever expect you to...because it is His life, and only He can live it. He does not give you strength, He is your strength. He does not cause you to overcome, He has overcome, and He continues to overcome as He lives in and through you.

If you are a Christian, then you have already received God's mercy in the Person of Jesus Christ. If you are a Christian then your sins have been forgiven on His account, and you have been reconciled to God, so that you can now draw near to Him in your time of need without fear of condemnation. This is what the book of Hebrews is all about.

Peace



GrannyofSix -> RE: Hebews 10:26 & Hebrews 6:6 (6/27/2009 2:12:53 PM)

quote:

Hebrews 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.” (KJV)


Theses scripture show that a person CAN fall away from Salvation if they choose to. Sinners have not tasted the good word of God and the powers of the world to come, so it is speaking to born-again Christians. You can't fall out of a tree if you aren't in it. Therefore, a person can fall away and be lost gain.

These scriptures are just one of many scriptures that proves the doctrine of OSAS is false. But that's in another thread.

And yes, it puts a fear in my heart and has for 50 years. I do not want to fall away from the truth that I have tasted of and be lost again. If nothing else, this scripture helps me to live as good as I can, to push away temptation to sin no matter how "small", and to always strive to obey God's word. I do not go around with the attitude that I can willfully do anything and still be forgiven as so many people do. We can not earn salvation, but we have to "work it out with fear and trembling". That means to live according to God's rules and commandments. If we don't, we are no longer one of His.

I sure do not want to bring shame to Jesus.



RustyCarr -> RE: Hebews 10:26 & Hebrews 6:6 (6/27/2009 2:48:22 PM)

quote:

URForgiven wrote:
If you are a Christian then you have received life, eternal life, Christ's life. He lives in you the life you cannot, nor did He ever expect you to...because it is His life, and only He can live it. He does not give you strength, He is your strength. He does not cause you to overcome, He has overcome, and He continues to overcome as He lives in and through you.

If you are a Christian, then you have already received God's mercy in the Person of Jesus Christ. If you are a Christian then your sins have been forgiven on His account, and you have been reconciled to God, so that you can now draw near to Him in your time of need without fear of condemnation. This is what the book of Hebrews is all about.

Peace


Please forgive me, but your post is not clear to me. Forgive me, but your post seems to go from one extreme to another in hints and generalities. This is also what I hear from the pulpit too often. Let me try to be specific.

Your first sentence is a blanket sentence that seems to require no effort from the believer. I would write the sentence this way: If you are a mature Christian abbiding in Him then you have received life, eternal life, Christ's life. I base this on much scripture exhorting us to run the race, to mature, to be washed by the Word of God leaving behind error and fleshly desires. I know that we, even Paul, have to beat our flesh into submission, and this may be a life long exercise, but our love (the love God has given us through the Holy Spirit) for Jesus, truth and righteousness does work within us to conform us to His will.

quote:

He lives in you the life you cannot, nor did He ever expect you to...because it is His life, and only He can live it. He does not give you strength, He is your strength. He does not cause you to overcome, He has overcome, and He continues to overcome as He lives in and through you.

This seems so mystical,.. as if there is little or no submission to Him on our part. God asks us to do, ASKS US TO DO, ASKS US TO DO two things: Love God with all your heart and with all your mind and with all your strength, and love your neighbor as yourself. HE does give us HIS Holy Spirit to help us live our lives in Him, but scripture also says that people are capable of resisting the Holy Spirit. So that again does require us to make choices. Choose NOT to resist the Holy Spirit. Do the honest best you can, He is our loving Father in heaven who is patient and longsuffering, but still I find it easier to at least TRY to live as He would want me to live. I find it easier to avoid mystical beliefs. Perhaps, again, your writing is simply incomplete. Perhaps you know and agree with what I am trying to say, but the details are just missing. Jesus does live His life through us, but only as we submit to His leading...

"""He does not give you strength, He is your strength.""" How does this reconcile with: Phil 4:13 I can do everything through him who gives me strength. See what I mean? Kind of "mystical" to me.

I really like the last paragrah of your post. I do understand that. """so that you can now draw near to Him""" Yes, I like and understand that.

Peace and blessings to you, URForgiven. I only desire to sharpen our understanding and our ability to speak the Truth clearly. I don't mean to offend, rather to teach in ways that make our words clearer and unable to be contradicted. It is a skill and talent that must be developed through the leading of the Holy Spirit. Sometimes hearing things like your first paragraph from the pulpit too much will hinder our own ability to communicate clearly without ommisions and without some belief in unclear "mystical" blanket generalizations.

Run the race... iron sharpens iron.... and God be with you, URForgiven.
Rusty



rcjames -> RE: Hebews 10:26 & Hebrews 6:6 (6/27/2009 3:33:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: URForgiven
If you are a Christian then you have received life, eternal life, Christ's life. He lives in you the life you cannot, nor did He ever expect you to...because it is His life, and only He can live it. He does not give you strength, He is your strength. He does not cause you to overcome, He has overcome, and He continues to overcome as He lives in and through you.

If you are a Christian, then you have already received God's mercy in the Person of Jesus Christ. If you are a Christian then your sins have been forgiven on His account, and you have been reconciled to God, so that you can now draw near to Him in your time of need without fear of condemnation. This is what the book of Hebrews is all about.


Great rhetoric URForgiven but the real question is "IF" one is a Christian or not?

How do you go about determning that with someone who is struggling that you are attempting to help?

Thanks
RC



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