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RE: Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 6/29/2009 2:38:26 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CoeurdeLeon
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ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
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ORIGINAL: CoeurdeLeon
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ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
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ORIGINAL: PinkCarnations
I have no problem telling people what I think of Hitler. However, I will not talk about my negative personal thoughts on a notable figure who has only recently passed way. What purpose would it serve to hurt their family members in that way?
Do you think it a degree of evilness that makes the distinction for you, or how recently he passed away? If Hitler had passed away yesterday, would you feel it would be too early to voice criticisms of him?
I think it's to do with whether there are members of present company (even if it's on a message board) who cared about the person, perhaps prayed for them, appreciated whatever talents or gifts they had, "grew up with them" so to speak, etc. To speak ill of something or someone that another person liked or appreciated is, again, really tacky and lacking in tact.
If you like something or someone and I don't, regardless of my reasons, it would be churlish of me to express my negative thoughts.
So we should all simply agree with each other? Never express a thought that might offend, or that is and or can be seen as negative? You just declared the vasts majority of post in this form as being tactless, since many counter what another person believes in and or likes...
So if a person likes porn and says it leads to a better life for all it's churlish of you to express your negative thoughts of it?
Is liking someone or appreciating their talents sin? If so, there's the remote possibility you'd have a point.
It can be... So yes I have a point... To make your point you declared anyone giving an argument and or an opposing view as tactless... Which means your view that is counter to mine, is in your words is without tact...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 6/29/2009 3:18:46 PM
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poetessfree
Posts: 568
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: poetessfree
When I want Bible study, I seek my Teacher but thanks for trying anyway 
Last I checked 1 Corinthians 5 was part of the bible, therefore not only the teaching of God, but a command...Nonetheless...
quote:
And in other instances still, when repentance is not the order of the day, but comfort & understanding, what purpose do you think harsh, cold, and callous words to someone grieving or are sad, would serve?
Are we talking about a discussion on a forum or decorum at funeral? It seems some folks can't differentiate between the two...
And therein lies the gist of it. Whalah! Whether on a forum, at a funeral or on the street, we are all people, with emotions given us by God who through His servant Paul has written, "weep with those who weep." And here is the kicker, bros/sis weep even when we don't necessarily agree with what is making them sad. Aha! For it is that persons love for the other which will cause the heart of the weeper to swell. What a concept! It is that which you are not understanding or fail to understand. Love covers a multitude of sins even within our own families & neighbors and prayer reaches beyond boundaries venturing into cyberspace to touch for where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
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The Sum of us is greater than all of our parts
Maya Angelou
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RE: Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 6/29/2009 4:00:42 PM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4926
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Formerly Jesus Land
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quote:
Anyone past a certain age, if their mothers were diligent, had the following words drilled into their little heads: "If you can't say something nice, don't say *anything.*"
Again, that's another saying that although a lot of us grew up with, and although it certainly has it's merits, I don't think it's necessarily biblical. After all, some of the things that Jesus Himself said would break that rule.
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Is liking someone or appreciating their talents sin? If so, there's the remote possibility you'd have a point.
And I think that that's really the issue with Michael Jackson--not that people think it's wrong to speak ill of the dead, but that they enjoy listening to MJ's songs. If they really felt that it was wrong to speak ill of the dead, I'd think it would apply in all cases, not just to certain people.
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"A faith that can be destroyed by suffering is not faith."--Richard Wurmbrand
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RE: Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 6/29/2009 6:34:16 PM
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Kerrlaw
Posts: 6669
Joined: 5/24/2006
From: Big Orange Country
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A dear friend of mine posted This Link earlier today.
Maybe some of you may be inclined to speak a little less harshly now. After all, MJ may be waiting for you at Jesus' feet.
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That which does not kill us makes us fatter. ~ crankius
Coffee sinners lovers click here.
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RE: Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 6/29/2009 6:46:23 PM
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Qtman
Posts: 6322
Joined: 3/21/2006
From: Crimson Tide Country
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kerrlaw
A dear friend of mine posted This Link earlier today.
Maybe some of you may be inclined to speak a little less harshly now. After all, MJ may be waiting for you at Jesus' feet.
Kerlaw I read that blog entry. I put a link here to another thread where the blog was quoted. I know nothing about MJ except what I have seen on TV. I do however know Andre Crouch. If he says he met with MJ and prayed with him and MJ accepted Christ then that is good enough for me in this world. I have enough confidence in Andre Crouch to know if he did not believe it he would not have said it. Therefore I will consider MAJ a brother in Christ until I get to Heaven. Then and only then if I learn something different I will change my mind.
_____________________________
At one time Jesus was my co-pilot. Things are much better now that He and I have changed seats.
<Me & my happyplate at Lobster Hut
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RE: Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 6/29/2009 6:56:29 PM
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Qtman
Posts: 6322
Joined: 3/21/2006
From: Crimson Tide Country
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Psalm 15
A psalm of David.
1 LORD, who may dwell in your sanctuary?
Who may live on your holy hill?
2 He whose walk is blameless
and who does what is righteous,
who speaks the truth from his heart
3 and has no slander on his tongue,
who does his neighbor no wrong
and casts no slur on his fellowman,
_____________________________
At one time Jesus was my co-pilot. Things are much better now that He and I have changed seats.
<Me & my happyplate at Lobster Hut
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RE: Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 6/29/2009 7:03:20 PM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4926
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Formerly Jesus Land
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Guys, I'd like to talk about the topic in general, not about Michael Jackson specifically please.
_____________________________
"A faith that can be destroyed by suffering is not faith."--Richard Wurmbrand
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RE: Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 6/29/2009 7:34:17 PM
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Qtman
Posts: 6322
Joined: 3/21/2006
From: Crimson Tide Country
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Whether we talk in a general sense or use someone as an example the answer will not change. The question is still What possible good would it do?
_____________________________
At one time Jesus was my co-pilot. Things are much better now that He and I have changed seats.
<Me & my happyplate at Lobster Hut
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RE: Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 6/29/2009 7:43:34 PM
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Conundrum
Posts: 85
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quote:
Sometime the harshest words and actions are used and necessary n order to bring about repentance...
WHOSE repentance, especially in the case of a celebrity death?
On a message board, how do you know that the words you type bring about anyone's repentance?
Do you sense the Holy Spirit telling you to type all those negative words?
quote:
In fact, if the circumstances call for it, one is to be removed from fellowship to bring about repentance... Anyone who thinks that people are always dealt with a nice tap on the shoulder are living in a fantasy world...
I agree, but speaking ill of a celebrity that has died is NOT dealing with that person's sin. And I doubt it's dealing with their family members' sin, either. If they come on our forum, they won't be brought to repentance but to anger at what is being said.
I'd love to know of an instance where rejoicing over someone's death has brought about repentance and salvation to someone related (or even not related) to the deceased.
For the record, I do not believe in covering up anyone's sin. Truth is truth. But to judge someone's faith because they've sinned and thus consign them to hell, when we aren't in a position to know their private life and perhaps their latter days/weeks, is ignorant at best and hypocritical (since we all sin; some of us even have done those big, bad sins) at worst.
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RE: Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 6/29/2009 9:17:50 PM
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stampinlady
Posts: 2589
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Northern IL
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quote:
3 and has no slander on his tongue,
who does his neighbor no wrong
and casts no slur on his fellowman,
Isn't slander false information?
I guess I'm just wondering how do you define "speaking ill?" If I tell my teen not to listen, watch or emulate a certain celebrity because their lifestyle isn't Godly or of something I'd approve of and I tell them why, is that speaking ill or that person? What if it's a dead releative or friend?
_____________________________
Deb
"When the fufillment comes the types and shadows cease."
Author unknown
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RE: Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 6/29/2009 9:37:41 PM
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Qtman
Posts: 6322
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From: Crimson Tide Country
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stampinlady
quote:
3 and has no slander on his tongue,
who does his neighbor no wrong
and casts no slur on his fellowman,
Isn't slander false information?
I guess I'm just wondering how do you define "speaking ill?" If I tell my teen not to listen, watch or emulate a certain celebrity because their lifestyle isn't Godly or of something I'd approve of and I tell them why, is that speaking ill or that person? What if it's a dead releative or friend?
Slander is IMO false information. However, a slur is not necessarily false.
I also can see a difference in telling your teen you don't want the to listen to or sing a certain song or do certain dances or dance moves because you do not believe them to be what a christian should do and telling them the person they are listening to or watching is a heathen or unGodly or hell bound etc. You are talking about an action and not a person. There is a difference.
_____________________________
At one time Jesus was my co-pilot. Things are much better now that He and I have changed seats.
<Me & my happyplate at Lobster Hut
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RE: Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 6/29/2009 10:46:45 PM
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CoeurdeLeon
Posts: 4189
Joined: 12/30/2007
From: Inside my head
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It occurs to me to wonder why it's TOS to tell someone on the (public) boards (where information about a person is made public, their own words and behavior) that they're going to hell but it's okay to say someone else went there. Maybe I just don't see a distinction but it seems to me that in either case, it's unacceptable.
_____________________________
Everything I say is fully substantiated by my own opinion.
What have we to fear?
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RE: Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 6/30/2009 12:23:29 AM
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saraimay75
Posts: 8849
Joined: 5/11/2005
From: Wherever God plants me.
Status: online
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The dead cannot defend themselves. The people close to the dead are morning so they should not have to defend themselves.
_____________________________
You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose.
~Dr. Seuss
http://forums.crosswalk.com/Saraimay75_Cruising_Around
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RE: Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 6/30/2009 2:22:47 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 6400
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Truth Project
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: poetessfree
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: poetessfree
When I want Bible study, I seek my Teacher but thanks for trying anyway
Last I checked 1 Corinthians 5 was part of the bible, therefore not only the teaching of God, but a command...Nonetheless...
quote:
And in other instances still, when repentance is not the order of the day, but comfort & understanding, what purpose do you think harsh, cold, and callous words to someone grieving or are sad, would serve?
Are we talking about a discussion on a forum or decorum at funeral? It seems some folks can't differentiate between the two...
And therein lies the gist of it. Whalah! Whether on a forum, at a funeral or on the street, we are all people, with emotions given us by God who through His servant Paul has written, "weep with those who weep." And here is the kicker, bros/sis weep even when we don't necessarily agree with what is making them sad. Aha! For it is that persons love for the other which will cause the heart of the weeper to swell. What a concept! It is that which you are not understanding or fail to understand. Love covers a multitude of sins even within our own families & neighbors and prayer reaches beyond boundaries venturing into cyberspace to touch for where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
You still can't differentiate between the two...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 6/30/2009 2:32:00 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 6400
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Truth Project
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
Whether we talk in a general sense or use someone as an example the answer will not change. The question is still What possible good would it do?
To counter the lies told at times... Of course one could question what possible good would it do to punch someone for burning a flag...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 6/30/2009 2:52:12 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 6400
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Truth Project
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Conundrum
WHOSE repentance, especially in the case of a celebrity death?
Ask the person who brought repentance into the mix....
quote:
On a message board, how do you know that the words you type bring about anyone's repentance?
Depends on the circumstances...
quote:
Do you sense the Holy Spirit telling you to type all those negative words?
Sure, and I am sure when folks fabricate nice things they do so as well...People on this forum have said the Holy Spirit told them the flood and things like Jericho never happened... So nothing would surprise me...
quote:
I agree, but speaking ill of a celebrity that has died is NOT dealing with that person's sin.
I think you need to address this to another person...
quote:
And I doubt it's dealing with their family members' sin, either. If they come on our forum, they won't be brought to repentance but to anger at what is being said.
Family members should be looking in the mirror before looking outward in many cases...
quote:
I'd love to know of an instance where rejoicing over someone's death has brought about repentance and salvation to someone related (or even not related) to the deceased.
Never really in question... But I am sure that pretending and or outright not being honest doesn't work..
quote:
For the record, I do not believe in covering up anyone's sin. Truth is truth. But to judge someone's faith because they've sinned and thus consign them to hell, when we aren't in a position to know their private life and perhaps their latter days/weeks, is ignorant at best and hypocritical (since we all sin; some of us even have done those big, bad sins) at worst.
If so, judging them to have faith is wrong as well...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 6/30/2009 3:01:55 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 6400
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Truth Project
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
Psalm 15
A psalm of David.
1 LORD, who may dwell in your sanctuary?
Who may live on your holy hill?
2 He whose walk is blameless
and who does what is righteous,
who speaks the truth from his heart
3 and has no slander on his tongue,
who does his neighbor no wrong
and casts no slur on his fellowman,
Psalms 15
1. Lord, who shall abide in thy tabernacle? who shall dwell in thy holy hill?
2. He that walketh uprightly, and worketh righteousness, and speaketh the truth in his heart.
3. He that backbiteth not with his tongue, nor doeth evil to his neighbour, nor taketh up a reproach against his neighbour.
4. In whose eyes a vile person is contemned; but he honoureth them that fear the Lord. He that sweareth to his own hurt, and changeth not.
5. He that putteth not out his money to usury, nor taketh reward against the innocent. He that doeth these things shall never be moved.
Most Bibles use reproach, not slur... My guess is the NIV... To reproach is to rebuke... So we know from scripture that one can and in many cases is to rebuke, this issue is having cause to do so... Not the act itself..
Take note in verse four it speaks of having contempt for the vile person, but honoring them that fear the Lord...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 6/30/2009 3:08:45 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 6400
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Truth Project
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
Slander is IMO false information. However, a slur is not necessarily false.
Slur is generally tied to innuendo and or aspersion... Which are tied to false or misleading statements in order to harm someone's reputation.
quote:
I also can see a difference in telling your teen you don't want the to listen to or sing a certain song or do certain dances or dance moves because you do not believe them to be what a christian should do and telling them the person they are listening to or watching is a heathen or unGodly or hell bound etc. You are talking about an action and not a person. There is a difference.
If the person is doing a perverted act, they are a pervert... One who lies, is a liar, the bible didn't say the man who stole was on a cross with Christ, it was the thief on the cross...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 6/30/2009 3:20:48 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 6400
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Truth Project
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CoeurdeLeon
It occurs to me to wonder why it's TOS to tell someone on the (public) boards (where information about a person is made public, their own words and behavior) that they're going to hell but it's okay to say someone else went there. Maybe I just don't see a distinction but it seems to me that in either case, it's unacceptable.
Because this forum only has jurisdiction over those who agree to the TOS's and this isn't a public as you are trying to make it out... And for that matter this place declares some beliefs to be outside the Christian orthodoxy... Thereby those who are under such beliefs cannot be in the body of Christ... So how could they in good faith say it's wrong to make such a judgment when they do themselves. If your church's statement of faith says that only be the shed blood of Christ(or something along those lines) one can be saved, that implies that everyone that believes otherwise is bound to hell...Same goes for yourself.. If you believe, I (Christ) am the way the truth and the life; NO MAN cometh unto the Father BUT BY ME." you must as well believe all those who don't are not saved and on their way to hell...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 6/30/2009 3:24:14 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 6400
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Truth Project
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: saraimay75
The dead cannot defend themselves. The people close to the dead are morning so they should not have to defend themselves.
That depends... In some cases those who are mourning looked the other way while the person lived a life of destruction and only when the train comes completely off the tracks do they bother to speak up... And in many cases their outrage and tears are simply a cover for their inaction or complicity in the matter...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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And if one stance must be productiive that speaks to most of what is posted here since most arguments have been beaten to death and much of the rest is probably vanity... 