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RE: Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 6/30/2009 7:58:32 AM
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Consecrated2God
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Guys, I'm putting on my moderator hat this time. Take the Michael Jackson stuff to the other thread. This one is about the general concept of "is it wrong to speak ill of the dead?"
Further off-topic posts will be removed.
Sincerely,
Lisa
Forums Moderator
Please do not reply to this message within the Community.
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RE: Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 6/30/2009 8:39:49 AM
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Qtman
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
Guys, I'd like to talk about the topic in general, not about Michael Jackson specifically please.
I quoted this post because I wanted to make sure it is know I am not responding to the post when you put your moderator hat on. It is hard to make a response when the OP is also a moderator without giving the appearance of arguing with a moderator. Please know I am not.
However, in the OP you mentioned the names of both Michael Jackson and Saddam Husein. IMO this opened up the discussion to either. MJ being the latest one and the one on everyone's mind now. It might help if you edited the OP and removed the references to these two people if you don't want them talked about. JMHO.
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RE: Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 6/30/2009 11:58:56 AM
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doinkdom
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I see the salvation police are alive and well in here.
too bad, too...considering we are not to judge one another's salvation for how do we know everything that God does? How do we know when the moment happens...think of the thief on the cross.
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RE: Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 6/30/2009 12:14:22 PM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4926
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
Guys, I'd like to talk about the topic in general, not about Michael Jackson specifically please.
I quoted this post because I wanted to make sure it is know I am not responding to the post when you put your moderator hat on. It is hard to make a response when the OP is also a moderator without giving the appearance of arguing with a moderator. Please know I am not.
However, in the OP you mentioned the names of both Michael Jackson and Saddam Husein. IMO this opened up the discussion to either. MJ being the latest one and the one on everyone's mind now. It might help if you edited the OP and removed the references to these two people if you don't want them talked about. JMHO.
I don't mind them being mentioned as examples, but I don't want to get into a debate about whether or not MJ was evil or not. I want to know if it's wrong to talk about people who are dead in a negative light if they are evil. This debate assumes that the deceased was a bad person. It's not a debate to determine whether or not such and such a person was bad. See the difference? So yeah, we can say things like, "I think it's okay to speak ill of really bad people who have been dead a long time like Hitler, but not people who are only slightly bad people who have only died yesterday like Michael Jackson." That's the kind of debate I'm looking for. I'm not looking for debate over whether or not Michael Jackson molested children. That's another topic.
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"A faith that can be destroyed by suffering is not faith."--Richard Wurmbrand
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RE: Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 6/30/2009 12:43:21 PM
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solarflare
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quote:
You mean like inferring a person is a child molester without a shred of evidence or inferring that you wished people were dead for crimes they have already paid for on Earth or inferring that their death is a thing to be celebrated?
I've been reading this 'entertaining' thread and so far refrained from adding to the mix, but the above statement caught my eye.
Question: How do people 'pay' for their crimes...actually SINS...while on earth?
Is there something I am missing? I did not know we could atone for our own sins.............
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RE: Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 6/30/2009 12:50:24 PM
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Consecrated2God
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To a degree we do pay for our sins on earth, but just because we may be punished by an earthly authority here doesn't mean we won't still answer to God for it in the final judgment.
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"A faith that can be destroyed by suffering is not faith."--Richard Wurmbrand
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RE: Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 6/30/2009 12:53:58 PM
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solarflare
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quote:
I want to know if it's wrong to talk about people who are dead in a negative light if they are evil.
I see no problem with speaking the truth. Personally, I don't get a kick out of talking 'bad' about dead people. However, I think it is ridiculous to show 'respect' for known criminals or what have you as though something beautiful had passed on.
There is no need to insult relatives....or slander....however, IMO, you are just as 'guilty' of wrongdoing to 'show respect.'
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RE: Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 6/30/2009 12:55:26 PM
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solarflare
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quote:
To a degree we do pay for our sins on earth, but just because we may be punished by an earthly authority here doesn't mean we won't still answer to God for it in the final judgment.
That is what I was trying to draw attention to....whatever we may 'pay for on earth, is nothing compared to where we will spend eternity. We cannot pay for our sins...only God can forgive them if we repent.
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RE: Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 6/30/2009 12:59:18 PM
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sharonjef2007
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I guess my issue is this. We usually only know of people what we see of them on tv or online. We are making judgements on people's lives based on the media. None of us KNEW MJ.....only one person on CW that I knew of Billy Mayes on a personal basis.
And yet, many people really could have seemed to care less about MJ's kids, and yet lamented for Billy Mayes kids. Many people talked about how terrible and evil MJ was because he was not saved. As far as any of us know, neither was Billy Mayes. And yet, no lambasting him for his choices while alive.
Honestly, I just see NOTHING edifying or glorfying to God in making crazy judgements and hating on people who are dead. ESPECAILLY when we never knew these people other then what we saw on tv or through other types of media. How do any of us know that a member of the Jackson family does not read on CW? WE DON'T! I just hope that while dealing with and mourning the death of a loved one that we don't experience the same kind of stuff some of these celebrity families have to deal with. It would not be on the same level....but just treat other people the same way you would want to be treated if you were in the same position. And....THAT is in the Bible and a commandment by Jesus himself.
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RE: Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 6/30/2009 1:13:25 PM
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doinkdom
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I always imagine a child mourning the passing of a parent and instead of someone expressing their personal opinion of the deceased, they should express the love of the Father to those left behind.
And imo, this is perfect example of where we are told in Hebrews 10:24 And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works.
No child or adult really needs to hear what a rascal their loved one was. Seriously...why would someone do that? Surely, not the same person who would tell them the love of Christ, only to use it to slander their loved one.
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Rest assured, dear friends, that where your pleasure is, there your heart is.
- Charles Spurgeon
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RE: Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 6/30/2009 1:31:20 PM
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shakezula
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sharonjef2007
Honestly, I just see NOTHING edifying or glorfying to God in making crazy judgements and hating on people who are dead. ESPECAILLY when we never knew these people other then what we saw on tv or through other types of media. How do any of us know that a member of the Jackson family does not read on CW? WE DON'T!
true, but i like to think of it in different way. at some point, most churches struggle with gossip. gossip can be rooted in truthful statements, and 99% of it happens outside the church itself, in peoples' homes. even if gossip spreads factual info, and even if the targets of gossip never hear what is being said, the effect it has on a church is toxic. it never makes the body healthier.
two years ago our church had gossip issues. the pastor put a stop to it in his own gentle but firm way. technically, he was imposing his will upon peoples' private conversations. but he woke people up to the damage they were doing to themselves and each other. so the gossip ended, and the church body became healthy again.
quote:
I just hope that while dealing with and mourning the death of a loved one that we don't experience the same kind of stuff some of these celebrity families have to deal with. It would not be on the same level....but just treat other people the same way you would want to be treated if you were in the same position. And....THAT is in the Bible and a commandment by Jesus himself.
a great statement. it's sad that it's so hard to convince people of this.
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RE: Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 6/30/2009 1:59:12 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 6400
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From: Truth Project
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sharonjef2007
Honestly, I just see NOTHING edifying or glorfying to God in making crazy judgements and hating on people who are dead.
So when people post regarding a dead person and lie one should remain silent simply because the person died? What of your (crazy) judgment? Why do you consider your judgment ok, and the judgment of others to be wrong?
quote:
ESPECAILLY when we never knew these people other then what we saw on TVs or through other types of media. How do any of us know that a member of the Jackson family does not read on CW? WE DON'T!
This is a forum on a for profit website... If talking about certain subjects upsets folks they should refrain from those topics...
quote:
I just hope that while dealing with and mourning the death of a loved one that we don't experience the same kind of stuff some of these celebrity families have to deal with.
Celebrity families use the media and sell their image... Most of what they go through in "bad times" is the repercussion of that...
quote:
It would not be on the same level....but just treat other people the same way you would want to be treated if you were in the same position. And....THAT is in the Bible and a commandment by Jesus himself.
Ok... If judging/speaking ill people dead or alive is bad, don't do it...
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Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 6/30/2009 3:42:31 PM
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doinkdom
Posts: 5585
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thank you
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Rest assured, dear friends, that where your pleasure is, there your heart is.
- Charles Spurgeon
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RE: Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 6/30/2009 3:58:11 PM
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WhiteRoseBlessings
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I'm glad I could facilitate things along for you, then.
No charge.
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RE: Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 6/30/2009 4:49:53 PM
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ManimalX
Posts: 2566
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solarflare
quote:
You mean like inferring a person is a child molester without a shred of evidence or inferring that you wished people were dead for crimes they have already paid for on Earth or inferring that their death is a thing to be celebrated?
I've been reading this 'entertaining' thread and so far refrained from adding to the mix, but the above statement caught my eye.
Question: How do people 'pay' for their crimes...actually SINS...while on earth?
Is there something I am missing? I did not know we could atone for our own sins.............
(Trying to keep this on track, bear with me until the end and I will tie it to the OP)
Sorry for the obscure reference. I was referring to the discussion some of us had regarding an Alaskan man named Alec Ahsoak. He is a convicted sex offender who has done his jail time. He won an Alaskan lottery and SoverignIsHe said the guy didn't deserve the winnings and wished that the guy was dead.
My point in that thread was that regardless of what we as individuals THINK a just punishment for a certain crime may be, we are obliged to honor the law of the land. Once a criminal is judged, sentenced, and completes that sentence, they have paid for their crime here on Earth. It isn't our job to condemn them further, as God will deal with the eternal judgment of their actions.
Just as C2G wrote:
quote:
To a degree we do pay for our sins on earth, but just because we may be punished by an earthly authority here doesn't mean we won't still answer to God for it in the final judgment.
That was my point. I am not and never have taught that by paying for crimes on Earth somehow people get out of the eternal consequences of their actions.
As it relates to this thread, often people will "speak ill of the dead" by shining an unnecessarily bright spotlight on past criminal actions. Often they cross the line of inappropriateness by indicating that they are glad that the person died or that they deserved to die because of past actions. In the case of Michael Jackson, some folks here are communicating in a celebratory tone about his death because they "know" he was a child molester and they "know" that he deserved to die and go to hell. And even if these people get called out on the fact that there is no evidence that MJ was a child molester, they just resort to "well, he looked creepy, so he must have been guilty of something".
Anyway, the point is that gossiping and spreading rumor about a person after their death is just as wrong as it is while they are living, as is acting as if YOUR personal judgment against a person's past crimes supersedes a court decision.
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"And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth." - 2nd Timothy 2:24,25
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RE: Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 6/30/2009 6:00:42 PM
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sharonjef2007
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quote:
Anyway, the point is that gossiping and spreading rumor about a person after their death is just as wrong as it is while they are living, as is acting as if YOUR personal judgment against a person's past crimes supersedes a court decision.
Bravo!
The scripture about removing the log in one's own eye before trying to remove the splinter in someone else's also comes to mind and I think it has a place in this conversation.
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my blog......Picture This.......
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RE: Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 6/30/2009 10:06:57 PM
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solarflare
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quote:
And yet, many people really could have seemed to care less about MJ's kids,
They weren't his kids turns out! I thought we supposed to let MJ RIP on this thread anyway........is he the only one who ever died?
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RE: Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 6/30/2009 10:07:04 PM
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PinkCarnations
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
How about that. We have a wisedoink. 
BTW Doink I meant to add I agree completely with your post.
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