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RE: Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 6/30/2009 10:47:56 PM
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sharonjef2007
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For me, it is not so much showing respect for the person who is dead (sometimes, but not all the time), but mostly about showing respect for those who are left and do love the person who has died.
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RE: Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 6/30/2009 10:50:27 PM
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WhiteRoseBlessings
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From: Here . . . but subject to change; stay tuned
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Yep.
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RE: Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 7/1/2009 2:18:43 AM
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ManimalX
Posts: 2583
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sharonjef2007
For me, it is not so much showing respect for the person who is dead (sometimes, but not all the time), but mostly about showing respect for those who are left and do love the person who has died.
Yep. That is one of the main points I made a few pages back and other posters made earlier in the thread.
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"And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth." - 2nd Timothy 2:24,25
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RE: Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 7/1/2009 2:48:28 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 6479
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From: Truth Project
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
Sorry for the obscure reference. I was referring to the discussion some of us had regarding an Alaskan man named Alec Ahsoak. He is a convicted sex offender who has done his jail time. He won an Alaskan lottery and SoverignIsHe said the guy didn't deserve the winnings and wished that the guy was dead.
Sorry, but I said he should have been put to death for his action, the rape of a child... If you are going to mention what I said be honest... And he was a TWICE convicted sex offender who raped three children... As well, you said that WHATEVER the state deemed a just punishment was in fact just, which makes no sense given that could be anything, or nothing at all, which wouldn't be just...
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John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 7/1/2009 4:38:02 AM
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hisguy66
Posts: 21
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As I mentioned in related posts and,threads is that "sex offender" has become generic that people could wind up on the registry for going to the bathroom in the wrong place. Being clumped together with a serial rapist. Nice system of checks,and balances and equal justice under the law. I believe he was unique but not criminal. He just got caught up in the hysteria of the times,and scammers who did take advantage of him for quite a bit of money.
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RE: Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 7/1/2009 5:40:01 AM
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ManimalX
Posts: 2583
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: doinkdom
 some people - even God's people - are just rude, hard-hearted jerks who enjoy pointing out flaws and their own personal sense of judgement on others (most of whom they do not know at all and have to rely on others heresay to have anything to say to begin with  ).
Yet your personal sense of judgment on others is ok? How do escape the hypocrisy of condemning those who judge with your judgment of them?
quote:
I find it amusing that the "do not judge lest ye be judged" passage would actually be very appropriate in a thread where some posters are judging the dead the same way they apparently want to (and will) be judged themselves.
Yourself included, correct?
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That is to say they assume an awful lot and rely on other fallible sources for their condemnation.
Like yourself?
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Did you actually know the person who died? Did you ever spend time with them? Do you truly know where they stand spiritually?
Ask yourself regarding those you judged at the start of your post...
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We should care more for those left here who need Jesus and His comfort rather than word-smithing every post to attack the character of the dead.
Or give more concern for some before they die instead of cheering them on while they self-destruct... Of course that is deemed a positive thing, so it's ok...
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What is the point of dissing the dead?
Actually this is more dealing with those who idolize and revise history of certain dead people, and when you call them on it they cover their worship of the person with phony
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To make sure we get the last word and say-so to balance what we consider a twisted kind of idolatry? I believe that is God's area of expertise, not mine...not ours. Our job is to care more for the living.
I guess we could toss your judgment of such folks into the bucket as well... And believe it or not, idolatry does take place... I don't believe it's been cured yet...
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Nothing said now will change the outcome for those who have died. But our tongue can certainly harden or soften a heart that is living now.
Not sure how your last statement fits with the start of your post...
All of this from the guy who is famous on these boards for quoting verses like Matthew 7:20 - "Thus you will recognize them by their fruits. ", and Matthew 7:2 - "For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. "?!?
You can wield these verses like swords against others you disagree with theologically, but when they are leveled against you they are hypocritical?
In the words of Ricky Ricardo: "Ay yi yi yi yi!"
Come on, brother! Your cold reaction has been exposed! All of us have had to take our licks and move on the better for it...
_____________________________
"And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth." - 2nd Timothy 2:24,25
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RE: Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 7/1/2009 6:02:29 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 6479
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Truth Project
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
All of this from the guy who is famous on these boards for quoting verses like Matthew 7:20 - "Thus you will recognize them by their fruits. ", and Matthew 7:2 - "For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. "?!?
I have never said it's wrong for someone to judging anyone, myself included.... And for that matter while the above isn't an outright false statement like your comment about what I said about the man in Alaska, it borders on
quote:
You can wield these verses like swords against others you disagree with theologically, but when they are leveled against you they are hypocritical?
What is hypocritical is being against judging and doing so... No matter how they try to word it when folks judge others for judging it's hypocrisy...
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Come on, brother! Your cold reaction has been exposed!
You are obsessing... Exposed? The drama surrounding this thread, and the one that started this one is almost too much to take...
quote:
All of us have had to take our licks and move on the better for it...
Don't hold your breath....
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John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 7/1/2009 8:46:24 AM
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PinkCarnations
Posts: 10738
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sharonjef2007
For me, it is not so much showing respect for the person who is dead (sometimes, but not all the time), but mostly about showing respect for those who are left and do love the person who has died.
So true!
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Tact is the knack of winning a point
without making an enemy.
Our Daily Bread, August 11, 2008
Roberta
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RE: Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 7/1/2009 11:08:54 AM
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doinkdom
Posts: 5526
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: The higher lowcountry
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
How about that. We have a wisedoink.
BTW Doink I meant to add I agree completely with your post.
thank you...but your comment was too funny anyways
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Rest assured, dear friends, that where your pleasure is, there your heart is.
- Charles Spurgeon
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RE: Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 7/1/2009 11:20:44 AM
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doinkdom
Posts: 5526
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From: The higher lowcountry
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: doinkdom
some people - even God's people - are just rude, hard-hearted jerks who enjoy pointing out flaws and their own personal sense of judgement on others (most of whom they do not know at all and have to rely on others heresay to have anything to say to begin with ).
Yet your personal sense of judgment on others is ok? How do escape the hypocrisy of condemning those who judge with your judgment of them?
Honey, you're arguing with scripture, not me.
I'm not judging anyone - using descriptive language about a post is not judgement of their character, merely bringing the thoughts to the frontline.
quote:
Not sure how your last statement fits with the start of your post...
And I am unclear on how any of your comments are productive and show the grace and mercy of God, to which you have been shown...as well as I.
No one is saying to idolize anyone (that's an asusmption lept to as an extreme). We're talking about slander and gossip for the dead...any dead. Not just celebrities. Like I said, our hearts should be for those left behind.
I am left with the impression that your posts are antagonistic for the sheer pleasure of being antagonistic.
I'm also left thinking that your responses reveal your heart, not Gods. And yeh...mine do the same for me and that's not a judgement either.
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Rest assured, dear friends, that where your pleasure is, there your heart is.
- Charles Spurgeon
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Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 7/1/2009 11:24:41 AM
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PinkCarnations
Posts: 10738
Status: offline
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If you've ever had a loved one pass away, then you know that it is hurtful to hear hateful comments about them.
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Tact is the knack of winning a point
without making an enemy.
Our Daily Bread, August 11, 2008
Roberta
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RE: Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 7/1/2009 11:28:53 AM
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doinkdom
Posts: 5526
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: The higher lowcountry
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PinkCarnations
If you've ever had a loved one pass away, then you know that it is hurtful to hear hateful comments about them.
that's a good point...you don't know who's ears will hear a passing remark made at a funeral or a gathering.
_____________________________
Rest assured, dear friends, that where your pleasure is, there your heart is.
- Charles Spurgeon
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RE: Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 7/1/2009 1:10:14 PM
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Consecrated2God
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MODERATOR'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
Guys, please keep the conversation on the topic and not each other. Please refrain from calling each other judgmental, hypocritical, antagonistic, etc. We can have an intellectual conversation here without harassing each other.
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RE: Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 7/1/2009 1:27:33 PM
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Conundrum
Posts: 85
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: Conundrum
WHOSE repentance, especially in the case of a celebrity death?
Ask the person who brought repentance into the mix....
You seem to be agreeing with that person, since YOU said, "Sometime the harshest words and actions are used and necessary n order to bring about repentance..." So, whose repentance do YOU have in mind?
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quote:
On a message board, how do you know that the words you type bring about anyone's repentance?
Depends on the circumstances...
How about some examples? Give me a couple circumstances.
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quote:
Do you sense the Holy Spirit telling you to type all those negative words?
Sure, and I am sure when folks fabricate nice things they do so as well...People on this forum have said the Holy Spirit told them the flood and things like Jericho never happened... So nothing would surprise me...
So, you DO sense the Holy Spirit telling you to type those things. OK. (And I wasn't asking about others, so that part is irrelevant.)
quote:
quote:
I agree, but speaking ill of a celebrity that has died is NOT dealing with that person's sin.
I think you need to address this to another person...
You have also used that as a defense, so I am allowed to address it to you.
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quote:
And I doubt it's dealing with their family members' sin, either. If they come on our forum, they won't be brought to repentance but to anger at what is being said.
Family members should be looking in the mirror before looking outward in many cases...
Yes, but that doesn't excuse our saying such rotten things. Passing the blame didn't work for Adam, either. 
quote:
quote:
I'd love to know of an instance where rejoicing over someone's death has brought about repentance and salvation to someone related (or even not related) to the deceased.
Never really in question... But I am sure that pretending and or outright not being honest doesn't work..
Does not focusing on a specific person's sin constitute pretending or not being honest? If I say, "I liked Hitler's mustache," does that mean I'm pretending he isn't a sinner? Do I have to qualify everything I say, such as "Hitler was a sinner, a horrid wretched sinner, but I liked his mustache"?
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For the record, I do not believe in covering up anyone's sin. Truth is truth. But to judge someone's faith because they've sinned and thus consign them to hell, when we aren't in a position to know their private life and perhaps their latter days/weeks, is ignorant at best and hypocritical (since we all sin; some of us even have done those big, bad sins) at worst.
If so, judging them to have faith is wrong as well...
Fine. If we agree on this, then let's not play judge and jury with anyone.
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RE: Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 7/1/2009 2:35:59 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 6479
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Truth Project
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: doinkdom
I'm not judging anyone -
I am left with the impression that your posts are antagonistic for the sheer pleasure of being antagonistic.
I'm also left thinking that your responses reveal your heart, not Gods.
And I am unclear on how any of your comments are productive and show the grace and mercy of God, to which you have been shown..
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 7/1/2009 2:39:30 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 6479
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Truth Project
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: doinkdom
No one is saying to idolize anyone (that's an asusmption lept to as an extreme).
That assumption is yours... I am not saying anyone here is saying to idolize anyone... Though it doesn't seem to be much of concern...
quote:
We're talking about slander and gossip for the dead...any dead. Not just celebrities.
Not just slander and gossip, but even the truth...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 7/1/2009 2:43:44 PM
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doinkdom
Posts: 5526
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: The higher lowcountry
Status: offline
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Good grief 
_____________________________
Rest assured, dear friends, that where your pleasure is, there your heart is.
- Charles Spurgeon
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RE: Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 7/1/2009 2:50:24 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 6479
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Truth Project
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Conundrum
You seem to be agreeing with that person, since YOU said, "Sometime the harshest words and actions are used and necessary n order to bring about repentance..." So, whose repentance do YOU have in mind?
I was speaking to the principle of repentance not to a specific person...
quote:
How about some examples? Give me a couple circumstances.
At times harshness is used to bring about repentance...
quote:
So, you DO sense the Holy Spirit telling you to type those things. OK. (And I wasn't asking about others, so that part is irrelevant.)
Sure,,,
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You have also used that as a defense, so I am allowed to address it to you.
And I am allowed to point you elsewhere...
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Yes, but that doesn't excuse our saying such rotten things.
Whatever a rotten thing may be...
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Passing the blame didn't work for Adam, either.
What blame?
quote:
Does not focusing on a specific person's sin constitute pretending or not being honest? If I say, "I liked Hitler's mustache," does that mean I'm pretending he isn't a sinner? Do I have to qualify everything I say, such as "Hitler was a sinner, a horrid wretched sinner, but I liked his mustache"?
Depends.... Here on this forum, in this thread, no... At a Holocaust memorial, yes...
quote:
Fine. If we agree on this, then let's not play judge and jury with anyone.
You first....
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Is it wrong to speak ill of the dead? - 7/1/2009 3:05:55 PM
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doinkdom
Posts: 5526
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: The higher lowcountry
Status: offline
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there must be something wrong with the communication link for my computer, I think my posts are being translated into Klingon...
meh, I'll fix it later...
carry on
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Rest assured, dear friends, that where your pleasure is, there your heart is.
- Charles Spurgeon
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