Rebuilding Trust After Lies (Full Version)

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spiritualbutterfly -> Rebuilding Trust After Lies (6/28/2009 2:29:58 AM)

My husband lies to me with a straight face and sticks to his story until I present evidence to the contrary. This was an issue once while we were dating, but he cried and apologized and promised not to lie to me again. Two nights ago, I learned that he's been lying about several things.

1. He has not paid tithes in at least 3 months, but every time I've asked him, he has told me that he has.
2. He signed up for Facebook without telling me and has pics posted of himself, his daughters, his friends and their children, his brother...but none that include me.
3. He has been exchanging inappropriate emails with a woman with whom he works -- in the emails they have attempted to make plans to spend time together.

I found these things out b/c I was using our computer, and when I was typing in www.msn.com, a site about masturbation popped up in the history. This surprised me only a little b/c he has told me that he has been considering masturbation due to my low sex drive (my doctor says I have no testosterone). I clicked on the site thinking it might be an article or something, but it was graphic videos, and it appeared as though some of the links had been clicked. This got me suspicious b/c he told me a few days ago that his credit card info had been stolen and that his personal bank account was overdrawn due to charges to some porn company. I started wondering whether he was dealing with a porn addiction so I decided to check his bank account and his email. The next morning (he works overnight), I asked him about Facebook and whether there was anyone else in his life, and he flatly denied it all -- until I brought him to the computer and logged in to his Facebook page and presented him with the printed emails. Then, he offered explanations such as that he felt ashamed when I asked about Facebook and so he denied it (he says he tried to upload pics of me and didn't know why they hadn't loaded). He said the emails were "just talk" and "not from my heart" and said he had no intention of actually going out with this woman (who works a dayshift at his job). He said he communicated with her out of frustration with our sex life b/c it felt nice to feel wanted, and he could say things to her that he actually wanted to say to me but that he felt I would not receive.

I understand that people make mistakes. I understand that my low libido is very frustrating to him (and to me b/c of the strain it puts on our marriage). He says he has never slept with the woman or even seen her outside of work (he says she got his email address via a list they had to make at work). My biggest issue is that he can lie to me so easily and so smoothly that I cannot tell he is lying and that he does not change his story unless I present evidence that I know he is lying. So when he says he has never cheated, all I have is his word -- which is pretty much useless to me at this point. I have no idea how to trust him again or whether I even want to try. I could use your prayers and feedback. Thanks for taking the time to read this. I tried not to make it so lengthy, but there was a lot to say.



bolt. -> RE: Rebuilding Trust After Lies (6/28/2009 9:19:16 AM)

Qualified
Professional
Christian
Marriage
Counselor

+

Prayer
Fasting
Grace
Boundaries

=

Best chance in this situation.

(Sorry -- this one's not something where advice is going to help. Your relationship needs real life shepherding.)



spiritualbutterfly -> RE: Rebuilding Trust After Lies (6/29/2009 12:57:02 AM)

bolt,

It's pretty obvious we need guidance, and we are praying and have discussed counseling. I would have appreciated it if you had elaborated in your response. When I read it, I felt like you might as well have said, "Good luck with that one -- it's gonna take a miracle!" I know advice won't fix our situation, but I do think it could help. The Bible tells us to seek wise counsel. Neither of us really has Christian friends/family that we feel comfortable talking to. We could (and may) go to our church, but I appreciate the anonymity that comes with posting on this forum -- where I hope that other Christians with a heart to help will offer wise counsel and pray for us as we seek God during this trial. I apologize for the tone of this post, but I'm a bit offended to see you reduce our situation to a simple equation with a somewhat negative result.



bolt. -> RE: Rebuilding Trust After Lies (6/29/2009 8:36:35 AM)

I'm sorry. Really.

Some of us frequent posters see a lot of 'the same' situations over again, and I made the mistake of forgetting momentarily that there are real people and real pain behind each one. It was wrong of me to try and be 'clever' about it.

But the thing I have learned, through posting to 'the same' situations is that there are some that are in a space where I can give concrete advice that's going to make a real difference, and there are some situations where that's not going to be much good. The reason your situation is not going to get much help from a forum is because (1) your husband's behaviour is compulsive (meaning deep rooted, and will take more than a simple decision to change) and (2) it is not even him here asking for advice.

I did not mean to imply "Good luck -- it's gonna take a miracle." (Although I do genuinely wish you good luck, and I do know that it is going to take God's intervention.) What I'm trying to say is that there are complexities here that are beyond my skill, even if it was the liar willing to repent of it and asking how.

What you should do then, is not the slightest bit complicated. Get a counselor. I wanted my advice to be clear and forceful -- your marriage is headed for deeper and deeper pain unless you and your husband both get into marriage counseling with a qualified professional Christian. Anonymity is nice (I like it myself) but there is no solution here but finding an avenue to truly reform his heart in in the image of Jesus... and then you will need an enormous amount of support and wisdom as you find a path to forgiveness and trusting again.

These things are not available here on the forums, except a little vicarious support. It's going to be a tough time, but you have the Spirit of the Living God within you and you will make it through. God values your marriage. He will guide you on the way to finding the help you both need.

Now that's the post I should have written in the first place.



spiritualbutterfly -> RE: Rebuilding Trust After Lies (6/30/2009 12:53:15 AM)

quote:

Anonymity is nice (I like it myself) but there is no solution here but finding an avenue to truly reform his heart in in the image of Jesus... and then you will need an enormous amount of support and wisdom as you find a path to forgiveness and trusting again.

These things are not available here on the forums, except a little vicarious support.


Thanks, bolt, for your elaboration :) and your apology. I really appreciate your feedback. I know the solutions to our marital woes will not be found on a forum -- unless God decides to change the way He receives and answers prayers (joking!). I just appreciate the wisdom and experiences other Christian people can share because my husband and I are young, and this is my first marriage. We both still have a lot to learn, and, as I mentioned, the people we would want to go to here on earth for advice (i.e., parents, grandparents, siblings) b/c you know they have your best interest at heart are not Christians in our case. So, I'd rather ask Christians I don't know than to ask non-Christians I do know.

What I'm looking for from this forum is the "support and wisdom" you mentioned (when I say wisdom, I mean the general wisdom that comes from living and learning...I know to seek God's divine wisdom for my particular situations). My father says often, "I'm not always right, but I'm never wrong," and I'm his daughter so I know I can be pretty stubborn sometimes. What I'm looking for is a "Calm down, butterfly. I had the same problem uploading pics to Facebook..." or a "Have you considered that he may be feeling..." or a "Part of rebuilding trust is to stop checking his email everyday on your lunch break!" I'm not joking on that last one b/c I have been doing that for the past few days...I told him I'd need to do that from time to time for a while, and he said he understands.

When I first discovered what's been going on, I thought I had decided we should separate because he's been attempting to see another woman while I'm at work, and he just kept lying until I presented the emails. I thought I didn't want to work on it and that maybe I didn't have to because somehow this must be approaching adultery, which would give me an escape from what's been a challenging FIRST YEAR of marriage. However, I've been praying about the situation since I discovered it, and I'm much calmer now than I ever imagined I could be (minus the random urges to check his email). I think it could be possible to trust him again, and I feel responsible for working on our marriage. Part of what I'm looking for from this forum is as simple as someone who's been there to tell me that I might feel that way. Anyway, thanks, bolt, for your response. It helps just to get my feelings out.



seagullplayer -> RE: Rebuilding Trust After Lies (6/30/2009 7:37:36 AM)

They say the first five years of marriage are the hardest, because they are.

You will have to come to the point that you trust your husband, whatever that takes.
You can help hold him accountable for the short term, but for the long term he will have to decide to do that himself, between him and God. Continual questioning and nagging will not work, he will come to resent you for it.

I think you should consider outside help, first place I would go is to your Pastor. Speak to him about the trust issues, and how you two can get that back.

You also need to look into your intimacy issues, it is much more important than you seem willing to admit. You said a doctor has told you the cause, so seek help. Your unwillingness to address the problem is telling your husband you don’t care about his needs. Please don’t just get mad when reading this, it is the same advice I would give my daughter or daughter in law.

Please don’t consider children until some of these issues are resolved. They will not make things better.

Prayer is the right thing.
I understand why you seek help here before going to people you know, just keep in mind, we don’t know you or your husband, someone that does could give much better advice. I hope you trust your Pastor enough to seek his guidance.

You have my prayers.



hangininthere -> RE: Rebuilding Trust After Lies (7/1/2009 2:49:50 AM)

Dear Butterfly,

My wife and I have been married for 26 years and I love her with all my heart. For 25 of that I had a secret porn addiction that finally led to infidelity. When she found out about the infidelity it was the last straw. I did some deep soul searching, talked with a Christian counselor online and I discovered that I could die with the one I love at my side or die alone with my porn collection next to the bed. My wife is the most wonderful person on earth. She accepted that I had a problem and worked with me to develop strategies to combat my addictions. A very good book for your husband to read that my counselor referred me to is titled 'Every Man's Battle'

A few hints:

Be prepared to talk to him about his addiction without taking it personal or being judgemental. I was addicted to porn before I met my wife. It is a true addiction that must be confronted with honesty and determination.

ALL porn must stop. I turn away during sex scenes in R rated movies and don't open any magazines or follow internet links that may show any kind of nudity. Porn is an addiction and must be stopped cold, 100%. There are celebrate recovery programs for porn addiction at churchs all over the country and your husband should join one.

You and others may not like this, but you have to take care of each others sexual needs. After a year porn free, my wife knows that if I am in the mood, so is she (even if she really isn't), and vice versa. If I have any fantasies, they are with her only and she, on occasion, tries to fulfill those for me.

God has worked wonders in our lives. I was not a strong believer before but now we pray every morning together and thank God for his grace and forgiveness through His Son, Jesus Christ.



spiritualbutterfly -> RE: Rebuilding Trust After Lies (7/3/2009 11:23:56 AM)

quote:

You also need to look into your intimacy issues, it is much more important than you seem willing to admit. You said a doctor has told you the cause, so seek help. Your unwillingness to address the problem is telling your husband you don’t care about his needs.


Seagull, thanks for your response. I know that our intimacy issues are very, very important, and I'm not unwilling to address the problem. Before my doctor told me anything, I had tried a supplement that my husband and I got from Whole Foods. We went in and talked to an employee there who said a lot of people bought and got good results from the supplement he recommended for increasing female libido. However, all it did for me was irritate my stomach. I found out about my testosterone level b/c I made sure to talk to my doctor about the issue during my annual visit. She switched my birth control pills (b/c she said the other ones had depleted my t level) and offered a prescription for t cream. I talked with my husband about the cream, and I think he was leaning toward using it, but I'm concerned about side effects. Also, the nurse explained that it would likely take 3 or 4 months of application to really see any results from the cream, and by then my level may have recovered on its own since I changed b/c pills. So, it seems like we're just kinda stuck waiting right now...It's not that I don't want to help the situation, I'm just not sure what else to do. I've even considered trying oysters, which I've never eaten b/c they look really nasty to me!

The other thing is that we have some rocky history going back to before we were married (including the previous lies) that I believe killed a huge part of our emotional intimacy. We didn't realize that until a couple of months ago, and even though we've talked about it, he doesn't seem to understand how that is still affecting our level of emotional (and therefore physical) intimacy now. He thinks that b/c it's in the past, and he finally apologized, I should no longer be affected by it. I keep trying to explain to him that continuing to be affected by something doesn't mean you haven't forgiven. I forgive him for lying, but that doesn't mean I'll instantly trust him again. Someone paralyzed by a drunk driver can forgive the driver, but that doesn't mean he/she won't feel sad some days over being paralyzed.

I say all of that to point out that I feel somewhat limited in what else I'm able to do to address our intimacy issues. I know he's frustrated, but his fussing and being grouchy so much of the time about sex doesn't help me to feel any more in the mood than a rock -- neither does feeling like he doesn't have enough self-control not to contact another woman if we haven't had what he considers enough sex. All of that just makes sex feel like a chore that I have to do to keep him functioning properly instead of a beautiful moment that we get to share as a married couple and that keeps our connection strong.

quote:

Be prepared to talk to him about his addiction without taking it personal or being judgemental.


Hangininthere, thanks for the book recommendation. I will tell my husband about it b/c it might be helpful even though I do not believe he has a porn addiction. I started thinking he might when I saw the website he had been to, but after talking with him, I think that may have just been a bad decision in the moment. However, I realize that if we don't make some changes, this struggle could very easily lead to a porn addiction.



WhiteDove747 -> RE: Rebuilding Trust After Lies (7/3/2009 5:10:19 PM)

Someone who is close to me married a man who had E.D. She did not know this until after the wedding vows. They've been married a few years now and he only attempted 2 or 3 times. He even took Viagra and other ED pills prescribed by his doctor. None helped. To make the story short, they have never had a consumated bed encounter. He was frustrated nothing seem to work. His wife was frustrated as well but what can she do? They are both middle-aged people who are still in their prime of life to be sexually inactive. Yet they are still married and plans to do so for another 50 or so years to the last beating of their hearts. She lives with her heart tied to his and has vowed to love him even in the absence of physical union. For this, he had loved her with all his heart and soul.

I just mentioned this because of your mention of having low libido. I guess what I'm trying to share with you is that while sexual union is very important (and extremely tough to keep a marriage without it), yet there is more to love than sex.

Now to the problem of pornography - I noticed how a lot of women in this forum have husbands with pornography problems - I'm only thinking out loud, if love can cover a multitude of sin (for you toward your husband), can not love conquer pornography (for your husband and other husbands as well) if he loves you enough?

Hopefully, there's something that can be done about your libido and you won't give up on trying to find solution to that problem with professional medical help. As far as your husband's lies that took away your trust, how much do you love him? How much are you willing to suffer? I am not insinuating on anything that you do, just want you to ask yourself and be prepared because it looks like it might be a long thornier road ahead. There's nothing that could beat prayer and always remember that nothing is impossible to God.



hnt -> RE: Rebuilding Trust After Lies (7/4/2009 1:15:51 PM)

quote:

Hopefully, there's something that can be done about your libido and you won't give up on trying to find solution to that problem with professional medical help. As far as your husband's lies that took away your trust, how much do you love him? How much are you willing to suffer? I am not insinuating on anything that you do, just want you to ask yourself and be prepared because it looks like it might be a long thornier road ahead. There's nothing that could beat prayer and always remember that nothing is impossible to God.


It sounds like she loves him, and that is the reason she stays around.

People need to make a decision to change their ways, and if the husband doesn't change his ways the path will always be thorny. Sounds to me like everyone has suffered, and the suffering will end once issues are put to rest. That means a decision to be repentive, and turn from your sinful ways. The bible calls for forgiveness, and the bible calls for us to repent.

The lies will always make the relationship suffer no matter what. The prayers should be for him to see his effects on the relationship, and how God would wish to for him to place his sinful ways to the side. He must show a true commitment to the relationship, and he needs prayers for his eyes to be open to the Lord.

The trust will be won by his repentive ways, and not by HOW much she loves him! The love will return in the proper fashion once he turns from his harmful habit patterns, and not by how much she is willing to suffer.

Please pray for your husband to see the light of truth, and that he will help you in your area as well. Pray that you see the truth from the lies, and help you deal with those in a Godly fashion. How that the proper people come into his life to help him with his path, and take him from the gripes of Satan. How he will find a proper support system, and that makes him willing to change his ways. Allow him to see how these harmful ways not only hurt him, but everyone he loves and wishes to be close to. How he sees this before the wall of distrust surrounds him, and makes him feel like he is all alone.

Your husband needs prayers of healing and direction most of all. He will be able to get his life back on track, and his marriage has a HUGE chance to flourish at that point. BOY would he be a HUGE beckon of Hope to others if he could overcome this! He could lead others to the Lord, and show them how they to could leave the painful and sinful ways behind as well.

My prayers are with the both of you.



spiritualbutterfly -> RE: Rebuilding Trust After Lies (7/5/2009 9:45:12 AM)

Dove and hnt, thanks so much for your responses. I can't stress how much I appreciate all of the feedback b/c this is a conversation I just can't have with people who still do things according to the world's values.

I do love my husband, and that is the main reason I stay around. Also, we made a commitment to one another, and I want to honor that. I already knew marriage would be challenging, but you can never know just what challenges you will face...good thing there's something in the Word for every situation.

My most recent challenge as I work on trusting my husband again happened on Friday. I was off work due to the 4th of July falling on Saturday, and my husband was off Friday night for the same reason since he works overnight. It rarely happens that he gets a night off when I've been off all day and don't have to work the next day. My parents had asked us on Thursday if we wanted to go fishing on Friday. When I brought this up to my husband on Friday, he didn't seem too interested and made mention that he thought I would want us to just spend our day together so I said that would be fine. As the day wore on, we didn't seem to be doing anything different than we'd normally do when he has to work at night...we went to get my car windows tinted, he went to Lowes and came home to tinker on his project car, etc. I began to get upset b/c he'd pretty much turned down plans to do something we both enjoy (fishing), and it seemed he didn't have any other plans in mind.

The next thought that came to my mind was how he seemed content to just sit around the house when I'm home, but he tried to make plans with another woman to go to the movies and such while I was at work! I didn't do a good job of casting that thought down...I said it to him, after which he called my parents and tried to go fishing, but it was too late in the day. We did end up going fishing yesterday, but still...this is the kind of stuff I'm going to need to be praying about (in addition to what hnt suggested)! I know I can't keep throwing it in his face, but it just made me so mad that it didn't seem to occur to him to do something fun or special with such a rare day.



cdb777 -> RE: Rebuilding Trust After Lies (7/16/2009 6:22:30 PM)

A lot of times we often pay close attention to what our spouse is doing, or not doing for us or our marriage. In fact it’s the easiest thing to do… blaming them for not doing what we hope they would do.

My wife and I have been married for two years now, but we dated for seven prior to our marriage, so we’ve had our share of battles and triumphs throughout the years.

What I meant to say in my first paragraph is; you seem to know in detail what you need from your husband; you sound very aware of what you need him to do for himself, your marriage and you…. But…….. Do you know what he wants from you? What he needs from you? Can you be sure he doesn’t have similar or even deeper issues/complaints about you as you have of him?

I’m not trying to defend anyone here… my wife and I went through the same thing – in fact, we’re still working on it – it’s not really a fixable problem… in fact, I don’t believe it should be a problem… it becomes a problem when we get caught up in what the other person isn’t doing, rather than what we aren’t doing… it’s an act of selflessness to place your spouses’ interests and needs ahead of your own… if that’s not Godly, I don’t know what is.

All I can suggest to you is, try and find out how he’s doing, take an interest in him and his needs, as you wish he would of you… I honestly don’t know if you are doing that, if you are then I apologize, I don’t mean to judge or seem like I don’t understand your side of it… but from reading your posts’, you seem to have several complaints about his behaiviour only… there may be a deeper reason why he’s seeking attention elsewhere… if this leads to infidelity, remember, that is not the problem in the marriage, infidelity is a symptom of the real problem between the two... it dosent justify it, but it would not be the real problem.

Have faith... and please hang in there... you've only been married for a year... unfortunately, at first, marriage is suppose to be hard, we all have to do our part to make our marriage as joyful and blessed as God wants it to be.



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