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Muslim Demographics - A Christian Response - 6/29/2009 9:16:47 AM
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TheosCentric
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Apparently a video has been circulating regarding the rise of the Muslims. I have not seen the video and had I heard of the video, I most likely would have dismissed it anyway, as most of these videos seek to do nothing but promote hate anyway. This is why we should not believe everything we read or hear, esp. from those that would have us believe that all Muslims are extremists and/or terrorists and want to destroy Israel and the West. Those are simply not true. Read the following blog posted on CW for a response to the Muslim Demographics video:
Muslim Demographics - A Christian Response
In recent months a highly volatile and extremely sensationalistic video has surfaced on youtube: “Muslim Demographics.” It has caused a firestorm of heated discussions and controversy at personal blogs, on political/religious websites/forums (message boards), and inside chat rooms. The video advances five messages/arguments:
- Muslims, thanks to higher fertility rates in their widespread population, will soon outnumber non-Muslims;
- Muslims, within the span of 20-50 years, will essentially control the entire world because of their numbers;
- “Islam will overwhelm Christendom;”
- Christians must “begin reproducing again” and convert Muslims to counter the imminent threat to Christianity;
- Christians must “share the gospel message with the changing world, this is a call to action.”
My thoughts: I agree with taking the Gospel to the world. That is the last command Jesus gave before ascending. But to use fear-mongering to encourage people to do so is not Biblical. We should do so because we love people. Not because the Muslims are supposedly going to overtake the Christians. That's silliness. Are Christians to be a fear-loving people or a God-fearing people.
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RE: Muslim Demographics - A Christian Response - 6/29/2009 9:51:43 AM
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stampinlady
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I watched the conclusion to Impact last night and at the end of the movie a reporter comes on ands tells the world how, becuase of the termoil people are doing things they been putting off( they had 31 or so days before the Moon was goign to colide with the Earth) and he showed and commented that some were turning to religion. Then they show clips of one man kneeling at a cross and then pan over the thousands bowing inside a Mosque. I thought that was very intereting, not knowing anything at that there is a rise in Muslim converts.
Anyway, I don't believe that there will be geniuine repentance if fear is used.
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RE: Muslim Demographics - A Christian Response - 6/29/2009 10:08:41 AM
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TheosCentric
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Is there really a rise in Muslim converts though? Is there really a rise in the Muslim population? Those are the questions that the fear-mongerers are saying that they are answering. In fact, there has been more Muslims converted to Christianity in the last 30 years than in the preceding hundreds of years since Islam was founded. In fact, I'm headed to a Muslim country this week where we have already been asked to visit with the chief of a Muslim village and some seekers and new believers are asking for house churches. The Muslim world is wide open to the Gospel. We only have to take it.
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God uses our bad will to accomplish His good will. - R.C. Sproul
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RE: Muslim Demographics - A Christian Response - 6/29/2009 12:16:02 PM
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ourgreatestSource
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"By the end of this 7 1/2 minute video, its highly inflammatory, bottom-line warning (which is directed primarily at Caucasians, non-Muslims, Westerners, and Christians) becomes disturbingly clear .." Christian Response link
My personal thoughts and opnninons about the original youtube video:link
To me it looks, sound and smell as white supremacist and Nazy "christian" groups hate propaganda seeds directed mostly to "their" region immigrants, non whites, in Europe (heavily German in my oppinion because it seems that country has larger Arab and Muslim populations than others..I think) and trying to bring their much smaller "bases" in North America (Canada and USA) to embrace their hate causes, etc.. IMO "they" are just borrowing the already dislike/non trust/negative viws etc for Islam and Muslims (I think is almost 45% in the USA still ???) because it can be more "effective" to use religion to spread more scare tactics than ethinicities ("Latinos", Arabs, Asians.. etc)..at least some Christians groups will pay more attention more to other religions actions, because of end times, etcs, than others: IPS link
" The analysis, much of which is based on findings of a major poll carried out last summer by the Pew Research Centre for the People & the Press, found that a strong plurality of 50 percent of white evangelical Protestants believe that Islam "is more likely than others to encourage violence among its believers", while only about a third of mainline Protestants and Catholics accepted that view. "
Wikipedia says US have 0.8% less then 3 millions Muslims and other sources says 9 millions, which numbers is right?   Again, imo the volatile and tension situation is mostly about immigrants and social changes, nothing new under the sun.
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RE: Muslim Demographics - A Christian Response - 6/29/2009 12:49:02 PM
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steved57
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quote:
“Islam will overwhelm Christendom;”
We claim to serve the God above all gods. The Creator and Sustainer of the universe. Whether there are more Muslims than Christians, I believe that God can do His will in His way. When I see this type of argumentation, I wonder which god are they serving? I know my God has already won the battle.
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RE: Muslim Demographics - A Christian Response - 6/29/2009 12:54:33 PM
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backrowbaptist
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Y'all can stick your fingers in you ears and say "la la la" all you want. I don't know about the producers of this video, but so far I haven't seen anyone de-bunk their numbers. Muslims DO have a much higher birth rate, Western Christians have very low, non-sustainable rates. This has major ramifications in the future, and they are alarming. Saying so doesn't make you a hate monger, but calling anyone who dares point out the severity of the situation a hate-monger is much more dangerous.
And whatever the real intent of the video was, their "call to action" encouraging people to 'share the gospel' with the multitudes of Muslims it projects, so I don't see the problem there. That is the response we need, but if we're in denial, we won't summon teh faith or the energy to try to reach them, because it won't be easy. It will take strong, mature men and women of faith to do so, not over-sensitive apologists who attack the messengers.
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"I prefer clarity to agreement" - Dennis Prager
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RE: Muslim Demographics - A Christian Response - 6/29/2009 1:07:55 PM
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TheosCentric
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quote:
ORIGINAL: backrowbaptist
Y'all can stick your fingers in you ears and say "la la la" all you want. I don't know about the producers of this video, but so far I haven't seen anyone de-bunk their numbers. Muslims DO have a much higher birth rate, Western Christians have very low, non-sustainable rates. This has major ramifications in the future, and they are alarming. Saying so doesn't make you a hate monger, but calling anyone who dares point out the severity of the situation a hate-monger is much more dangerous.
And whatever the real intent of the video was, their "call to action" encouraging people to 'share the gospel' with the multitudes of Muslims it projects, so I don't see the problem there. That is the response we need, but if we're in denial, we won't summon teh faith or the energy to try to reach them, because it won't be easy. It will take strong, mature men and women of faith to do so, not over-sensitive apologists who attack the messengers.
You're not addressing the issue here. Is fear to be used to spread the Gospel? Is that Biblical? Not at all, but what does Jesus say in Matt. 28:18-20.
1. He has all authority in Heaven and on Earth.
2. Christians are to go.
3. Christians are to make disciples.
4. Disciples come from all nations.
5. Disciples are to be taught all that Jesus commanded previously in the book of Matthew which is summed up in Love God and love others.
There is no denying that Muslims may have a higher birth rate, but as the author of the blog post (if you read it) suggests, the numbers don't add up. He did his research using Government numbers.
Nobody said hate-mongering either. It's fear-mongering. Unless you don't see a difference. Respond to the OP. Don't spout off the same old useless dribble that the video is spouting.
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God uses our bad will to accomplish His good will. - R.C. Sproul
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RE: Muslim Demographics - A Christian Response - 6/29/2009 1:09:23 PM
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rawr.ben
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The Muslim population is growing more in Europe than it is in the states. Place yourself outside of your USA worldview for a minute.
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RE: Muslim Demographics - A Christian Response - 6/29/2009 1:33:09 PM
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ayani
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We don't live in a majority Chirsitan world any more (well, we never really did) - and the influx of Islamic immigrants just reminds us of this. There is nothing new here.
As a Christian, I don't think we have to fear Islam.
The thing we have to remember when we're awed by how fast Islam seems to be growing, is that in much of the 'Islamic World' there is discrimination or even persecttion against non-Islamic religions and their followers. People have to be Muslim, so many people who aren't religious and don't care, are still considered as 'muslim'. Without this government incentivizing people to call themselves 'muslim', there would be a lot fewer 'muslims'. Just like in the West. In the middle-ages, when we were part of 'Christendom', we know a lot of Christinaity was only skin-deep. When we separated church and state, we began a gradual process from where 99% of the people where 'Christian', to where we are today-
As for evangelism: I think that as Islam moves into tries to evangelize in Europe and the US, they are going to find life very different than at 'home. I think they are going to have to spend a lot of time with Muslims leaving the faith. This will be a problem for them because:
- They have to follow civil law, and can't use physical force or government persecution agains muslims who convert to Christianity.
- Material Prosperity, for whatever reason, seems to lessen religios devotion. And, as they integrate in the west, the second and third generations will become more prosperous.
- Education: higher levels of education usually leads to more religious tolerance, which will lessen zeal to convert Christians.
- They'll encounter the Christian Message. As home, they can (and do) just ban the Gospel message so no-one can be tempted by it. Put on a level playing field, I'll take our chances.
- Islam's frequently severe repression of Women leaves this group a huge mission opportunity.
quote:
ORIGINAL: TheosCentric
Is there really a rise in Muslim converts though?
Good question.
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RE: Muslim Demographics - A Christian Response - 6/29/2009 2:19:13 PM
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cow451
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TheosCentric
Is there really a rise in Muslim converts though? Is there really a rise in the Muslim population? Those are the questions that the fear-mongerers are saying that they are answering. In fact, there has been more Muslims converted to Christianity in the last 30 years than in the preceding hundreds of years since Islam was founded. In fact, I'm headed to a Muslim country this week where we have already been asked to visit with the chief of a Muslim village and some seekers and new believers are asking for house churches. The Muslim world is wide open to the Gospel. We only have to take it.
The fallacy in using math alone is that it cannot account for other variables. Here in the South we've had "The Mexicans are taking over" stuff, which is similar. What is missing is the effect of the "home" cultures". I have never met a second-generation immigrant from anywhere that wasn't "Americanized". The first generation seeks to keep their old ways while the second speaks the "new" language and adopts the "new" ways. One funny thing I recall was meeting a young second-generation Latino man who spoke with a very heavy southern accent.
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"As Putin rears his head and comes into the air space of the United States of America, where do they go? It's Alaska. It's just right over the border." Sarah Palin
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RE: Muslim Demographics - A Christian Response - 6/29/2009 2:31:32 PM
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PolarBear
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Hopefully the crackdown in Iran and the Muslims-killing-Muslims in Iraq will help to show how futile Islam really is as a religion. These things really should turn a lot of young people off to it.
Not to mention other factors, like the fact that Islam says Jesus was never crucified, when in fact his crucifixion is historical certainty. (Lots of references to it in ancient writings.)
Anyone who puts worldviews to the test will quickly realize that Islam cannot be the answer.
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Tip of the day: "You" has three letters, not one. It is spelled Y-O-U.
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RE: Muslim Demographics - A Christian Response - 6/29/2009 3:44:42 PM
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WesP
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I don't think it is fear-mongering either. The video simply related statistics as proof that the Christian minority will shrink even more in future years due to population reduction. The fanatics may breed to overcome, but I do not think the majority subscribe to that viewpoint. Populations have always caused concern to the shrinking majorities. Look at the Egyptians at the time of Moses. They feared the number of Hebrews. In Revelation, I believe there is a verse that states that God's people will overcome odds even if it is 1000:1. The use of numbers in the video is astute.
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RE: Muslim Demographics - A Christian Response - 6/29/2009 4:09:04 PM
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TheosCentric
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WesP
]The use of numbers in the video is astute.
But are they correct?
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RE: Muslim Demographics - A Christian Response - 6/29/2009 4:14:34 PM
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WesP
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TheosCentric
quote:
ORIGINAL: WesP
]The use of numbers in the video is astute.
But are they correct?
I cannot say, but I do not find them to be a cause for alarm even so.
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RE: Muslim Demographics - A Christian Response - 6/29/2009 6:33:11 PM
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tacitus
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While I was Manchester University, in England, the corner store (yes, we still have them in the UK!) was run by an immigrant Indian family. The grandmother sat in the back of the shop dressed in traditional Hindu garb, and couldn't speak a word of English. The parents ran the store, dressed in typical English clothing, and spoke English with heavy Indian accents. Their children had strong Mancunian (Manchester) accents and apart from the color of their skin, you would not be able to tell them from any other British kid.
Now, this family was Hindu, but the same pattern is being repeated again and again with immigrant families across Europe and the USA. By the third generation, the vast majority of immigrants are thoroughly integrated into the culture of the host country, having attended public schools (imagine if only private religious schools were available -- they wouldn't be going to the Christian ones), and been immersed in the entertainment and political ways of the local society. People start to intermarry, their religious faith is likely to be more secular (i.e. less radical) and their birth rate trends towards the norm of the country they are in. Muslim families are no more immune from the pressures of society than are Christian families.
Of course, you never hear about any of this fearmongers who much prefer to send a thrilling shiver up their spine than do any hard investigation into the matter, covering all bases, all variables.
Yes, integration doesn't mean that immigrants will not have some impact on society. My Dad's cousin, a very sweet person in all other aspects, harbors a deep resentment against "the Pakis" as she calls them (yes, a racial slur) in her home town because they have greatly changed the character of some parts of the city she's lived in all her life (she turns 80 next week). Yet, if you walk down those streets, you'll find young Pakistanis speaking with the broadest of broad Yorkshire accents, supporting Leeds United or Bradford City football clubs, and the Yorkshire Cricket Team. Yorkshire now has three home-grown Muslim immigrant cricketers playing for them, and two of them have already represented England at the national level and they are every bit an England player as any other member of the team. It's been a long time coming, but it's happening, and will continue to happen.
Finally, the number of Islamists within the Muslim immigrant population is small. They are dangerous, yes, and they have tried to engineer take overs of the local mosques in order to recruit more radicals, but in places like France and England, they have largely failed. Not because of law enforcement, but because the majority of Muslims themselves don't want them and have resisted their attempts. There will always be a few radicals who are intent to cause major harm and suffering, and we will always have to be on the lookout, but tarring all Muslims with the same brush (which is effectively what this "Muslim Takeover" is all about) is just plain rabble rousing.
So, those statistics do not tell the whole story, and can easily tell the wrong story completely (you know the quote).
Of course, in the USA there is no danger of Christians becoming the minority -- the number of Christians in the illegal immigrant population alone probably greatly outnumbers all the Muslims in the USA and their birth rate! So, wohoo for illegals! 
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RE: Muslim Demographics - A Christian Response - 6/29/2009 9:28:21 PM
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SonInMe1
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I didn't think christians were born christian.....????
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James 4:4
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RE: Muslim Demographics - A Christian Response - 7/1/2009 1:40:47 PM
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backrowbaptist
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TheosCentric
quote:
ORIGINAL: backrowbaptist
Y'all can stick your fingers in you ears and say "la la la" all you want. I don't know about the producers of this video, but so far I haven't seen anyone de-bunk their numbers. Muslims DO have a much higher birth rate, Western Christians have very low, non-sustainable rates. This has major ramifications in the future, and they are alarming. Saying so doesn't make you a hate monger, but calling anyone who dares point out the severity of the situation a hate-monger is much more dangerous.
And whatever the real intent of the video was, their "call to action" encouraging people to 'share the gospel' with the multitudes of Muslims it projects, so I don't see the problem there. That is the response we need, but if we're in denial, we won't summon teh faith or the energy to try to reach them, because it won't be easy. It will take strong, mature men and women of faith to do so, not over-sensitive apologists who attack the messengers.
You're not addressing the issue here. Is fear to be used to spread the Gospel? Is that Biblical? Not at all, but what does Jesus say in Matt. 28:18-20.
1. He has all authority in Heaven and on Earth.
2. Christians are to go.
3. Christians are to make disciples.
4. Disciples come from all nations.
5. Disciples are to be taught all that Jesus commanded previously in the book of Matthew which is summed up in Love God and love others.
There is no denying that Muslims may have a higher birth rate, but as the author of the blog post (if you read it) suggests, the numbers don't add up. He did his research using Government numbers.
Nobody said hate-mongering either. It's fear-mongering. Unless you don't see a difference. Respond to the OP. Don't spout off the same old useless dribble that the video is spouting.
You've said "fear mongering", but the link you provided inferred that this video was used by hate groups and even pasted a "white pride" logo in the middle of his blog, so I stand by my point.
It's not a particularly good video, but pointing out something that's frightening, as the Muslim take-over of Europe certainly is, isn't 'fear mongering'. And it doesn't paint all Muslims as terrorists, either. A very small minority of them are, but the vast majority are either sympathetic to their cause or are unwilling to fight against them.
Again, what's the problem with the video's 'call to action'? It says to share the Gospel with the Muslim world. That's not a response that would show fear, lack of love or a lack of faith that God is in control.
_____________________________
Any of this gettin' through to you, son?
"I prefer clarity to agreement" - Dennis Prager
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RE: Muslim Demographics - A Christian Response - 7/1/2009 1:56:42 PM
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TheosCentric
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It's using fear to try to get Christians to do something they should be doing anyway.
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RE: Muslim Demographics - A Christian Response - 7/2/2009 8:42:02 AM
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WesP
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TheosCentric
It's using fear to try to get Christians to do something they should be doing anyway.
If one is a Christian, why would there be fear?
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RE: Muslim Demographics - A Christian Response - 7/3/2009 5:40:30 AM
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amosgirl
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It's intellectually inconsistent to tell Christians that on the one hand thay should have more babies while simultaniously telling single Christians they should be content being single.
I have my own theories about why churches won't allow single Christians to want to get married ("but you're making it an idol yadeyadeyah") but the impact of this kind of teaching on population growth within the church community is so glaringly obvious it's almost like the Emperor's New Clothes.
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RE: Muslim Demographics - A Christian Response - 7/4/2009 12:50:07 AM
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yankeedoodled
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As long as Muslim nations are a peaceful and tolerant as Christian nations, whats the problem ? Terrorism doesn't even exist anymore, just man made disasters. that is if you are immune to reality, even 9-11 probably is just fantasy.
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RE: Muslim Demographics - A Christian Response - 7/4/2009 6:20:51 AM
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3cappuccinosmom
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quote:
As long as Muslim nations are a peaceful and tolerant as Christian nations, whats the problem ? Terrorism doesn't even exist anymore, just man made disasters. that is if you are immune to reality, even 9-11 probably is just fantasy.
troll much?
I wonder, if the 'fearmongers' are racist, why don't they address *all* immigrants, rather than just Muslim ones? There are Muslims (and Muslim fanatics) of all colors. There are also Christian immigrants of all colors. And i must say, my husband who is Christian, black, and African has many of the same concerns, seeing something similar going on in his home country. As the Christian population gets Westernized, their view of children does too, ergo, much, much smaller families and fewer people being raised in Christian households. Meanwhile, Islam is making inroads and capitalizing on the cultural value of having many children, particularly sons. It's not *only* family size, but that certainly plays a part.
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