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RE: Healthcare Reform - 9/2/2009 6:20:39 PM
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GregandJenny
Posts: 665
Joined: 2/16/2006
From: Near Seattle Washington
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There has been a lot of talk about health care reform but isn't This new "plan" more about insurance reform than health reform?
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It does not have to be well with my circumstance to be well with my soul!
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RE: Healthcare Reform- 6/29 - 9/7/2009 3:20:05 AM
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Bettawrekonize
Posts: 1157
Joined: 4/17/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
It's also an example of testing mandated by the FDA indicating that a drug is unsafe and getting it pulled from the market. What was the root cause? If it wasn't for the mandated testing, the drug would never have been pulled and thousands more would have died.
I think you'll find this interesting.
quote:
Dr. Graham testified about FDA attempts to keep him from testifying before Congress concerning the FDA's decision to put Vioxx on the market despite its lethal effects. In an interview on my radio program Health Law and Politics on the Talk Star Radio Network, Dr. Graham explained that the then FDA Commissioner, Lester A. Crawford, on the eve of Graham's testimony before the Senate urged Graham not to testify but to take instead a position Crawford would create for him as an aide to the Commissioner.
http://www.emord.com/events/speeches/fda_violation.htm
The story behind Graham was a very sad one. This guy was a whistleblower and the FDA discredited him and said that his views were not held by most people who work for the FDA (ie: he was the exception to the rule), and as a result, congress completely ignored him (as a quack) and he turned out to be right about everything (ie: shortly after a survey showed that many other FDA scientists did hold his views).
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RE: Healthcare Reform- 6/29 - 9/9/2009 12:24:38 AM
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agapeflight
Posts: 120
Joined: 3/29/2009
Status: offline
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Check out section 303 of the House Bill available from the Library of Congress, you'll note that they intend to cause anyone who will not participate in the public option and have no other option to pay a fine of 2.5% of their taxable income. They also will not allow a religious exemption unless you belong to an approved religious sect.
This thing if it passes the way they want it to will be largely to blame for turning the cultural cold wars hot. I'm not threatening mind you, I am predicting a likely outcome.
My belief though is that the Supreme Court would easily strike down the House Bill as written since it is clearly unconsitutional to remove from a sovereign citizen the right to reject healthcare coverage.
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RE: Healthcare Reform - 9/9/2009 10:14:39 AM
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NoShow
Posts: 386
Joined: 5/10/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GregandJenny
There has been a lot of talk about health care reform but isn't This new "plan" more about insurance reform than health reform?
This is what I'm mostly hearing; portability, inability to deny based on pre-existing conditions, no cancellations... these are the new rules the government is going to set for the insurers.
The insurers don't like these things because of the costs of them.
So once the insurers are told these are requirements, they'll simply pass the cost on to all the rest of the insured. Which seems contradictory to the fact that people are already complaining about what it's costing them now.
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RE: Healthcare Reform - 9/9/2009 12:27:07 PM
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Soxfan
Posts: 1555
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: NoShow
The insurers don't like these things because of the costs of them.
So once the insurers are told these are requirements, they'll simply pass the cost on to all the rest of the insured. Which seems contradictory to the fact that people are already complaining about what it's costing them now.
The insurers don't like it because they'll have to compete with the Federal Government. And we all know that the Fed doesn't care if they operate in a deficit. However, companies can't do that.
As a result, the Govt option will essentially put the private insurance companies out of business because they won't be able to compete. Something the Obama minions have wanted to do all along
_____________________________
"This would be the first step in apostasy; men first forget the true, and then adore the false.".......C.H. Spurgeon
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RE: Healthcare Reform - 9/9/2009 2:17:10 PM
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NoShow
Posts: 386
Joined: 5/10/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Soxfan
quote:
ORIGINAL: NoShow
The insurers don't like these things because of the costs of them.
So once the insurers are told these are requirements, they'll simply pass the cost on to all the rest of the insured. Which seems contradictory to the fact that people are already complaining about what it's costing them now.
The insurers don't like it because they'll have to compete with the Federal Government. And we all know that the Fed doesn't care if they operate in a deficit. However, companies can't do that.
As a result, the Govt option will essentially put the private insurance companies out of business because they won't be able to compete. Something the Obama minions have wanted to do all along
Leaving only the gov't option which they can run as efficiently (and solvently) as they do SS & MC.
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RE: Healthcare Reform - 9/9/2009 3:06:01 PM
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Soxfan
Posts: 1555
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
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Real bi-partisianship...eh:
GOP leaders haven't met Obama for health talks since April
Although why the GOP would want to be involved in this is beyond me. Stay out of it and let it collapse
_____________________________
"This would be the first step in apostasy; men first forget the true, and then adore the false.".......C.H. Spurgeon
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RE: Healthcare Reform - 9/9/2009 5:24:31 PM
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its_GO_time
Posts: 560
Status: offline
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Why can't incremental steps be taken to improve HC? for instance:
Step 1. Allow insurance to be purchased from other states. Step 2. Tort reform. Step 3 etc., etc.,
No one tears down their house to fix a leaky faucet, or dissassmbles their auto to change the oil, but in government, they literally, throw out the baby with the bath water. There's no other soultion for these bozos.
_____________________________
"I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism." -Ronald Reagan
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RE: Healthcare Reform - 9/16/2009 4:50:23 PM
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Pat-rebel_lady
Posts: 671
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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Just in:
quote:
Senate's 10-Year Health Fix Would Cost US $856B
"It looks like we're being pushed aside by the Democratic leadership so the Senate can move forward on a bill that, up to this point, does not meet the shared goals for affordable, accessible health coverage that we set forth when this process began," Grassley said in a statement. ....
The bill drew quick criticism from Republican leaders.
"This partisan proposal cuts Medicare by nearly a half-trillion dollars, and puts massive new tax burdens on families and small businesses, to create yet another thousand-page, trillion-dollar government program," said Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky. "Only in Washington would anyone think that makes sense, especially in this economy." ....
Not carrying insurance could result in a steep fine, as much as $3,800 per family, or $950 for an individual. ....
Story HERE
My question is, If they are doing Preventive, and Wellness; Not sick care; Does that mean everyone must have a yearly physical, and see a doctor on a regular bases, whether they need or want to or not? Most Health Insurance Companies do not cover yearly physicals. What will be the required rules for 'Preventive, and Wellness' under this Health Care Reform? Will people be fined for Not going to doctors to receive their 'Preventive care' list of rules of Do's and Don'ts?
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RE: Healthcare Reform - 9/16/2009 6:15:56 PM
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davelinde
Posts: 475
Joined: 5/5/2006
From: New Jersey
Status: offline
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I skimmed this thread and it seem there are some here who support the healthcare reform ideas... Can someone explain them to me? How is this supposed to work?
I've read about a bunch of things that sound good to me - eg better portability, rules that mean you cannot be dropped etc. But all those rules can only drive UP the cost of insurance - and those costs ARE the problem I see...
THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH, so someone will pay for it - who and how?
Today I read about mandatory participation... how does that work? I guess the idea is to compel young healthy people into the system to drop the per person costs. So far, so good. But what happens if I have no cash to pay whatever I'm forced to pay? I now suffer the insult of a fine on top of the financial stress I'm under for whatever reason?
I see Medicare as the evidence that government healthcare "works". Isn't it facing insolvency? Aren't many providers refusing to do Medicare work? In fact, aren't those who DO take Medicare doing it at incremental cost recovery only... essentially having the privately insured subsidizing Medicare? Is that incorrect? If it IS correct... how do you scale that up to expand coverage?
Personally healthcare is a big issue for me and I'd like to see a better solution than what I have now. However once an entitlement like this gets created it may never go away and can expand as yet another "gift" elected officials use to get re-elected...
For those who are fine paying a "little more" tax for healthcare... yes I'd pay "a little" too - but there is NOTHING to lead me to believe that it will remain a little.
Are there viable ways to keep this in check once it becomes law? Does anyone even claim to know what these ideas will cost and how they will be paid?
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RE: Healthcare Reform - 9/16/2009 7:33:51 PM
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davelinde
Posts: 475
Joined: 5/5/2006
From: New Jersey
Status: offline
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...so from recent experience and indicative of where I see healthcare issues (yes, this is trivial... but scale it up to significant health issues).
My daughter has three small moles/skintags in annoying places - practically and cosmetically. So it would be nice to have them removed.
We call the dermatologist our primary care physician refers and ask "how much". The answer is that we must come in for a consult. OK... our time, $25 co-pay and insurance pays for a consult to be told they are non-cancerous and cosmetic. So, OK how much? $150 each ($450) with topical anesthesia (that we must buy separately). That's a lot for a 5 minute procedure.
So we call another dermatologist and refuse to do the whole consult/co-pay thing. After a LOT of debating they finally tell us their price is $225/each ($675 total)... but they can "discount it" to $150. So we say "no thanks" and they offer to do the procedure for $400. When pressed as to why so much for 5 minutes the office manager says it's all because of malpractice insurance.
I could be way off base here but it sure seems like getting some control on tort reform and some better transparency in pricing is needed to get the healthcare market efficient. I do not understand how mandating better coverage and injecting government bureaucracy does anything to address the underlying costs and inefficiencies?
Please let me know what I'm missing... my understanding of this is limited to my experiences.
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RE: Healthcare Reform - 9/16/2009 7:41:20 PM
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wing2000
Posts: 1077
Joined: 4/14/2005
From: ...the beautiful Sonoran Desert
Status: offline
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quote:
So we call another dermatologist and refuse to do the whole consult/co-pay thing. After a LOT of debating they finally tell us their price is $225/each ($675 total)... but they can "discount it" to $150. So we say "no thanks" and they offer to do the procedure for $400. When pressed as to why so much for 5 minutes the office manager says it's all because of malpractice insurance.
....the whole "we won't quote you a price until we see you" is one big problem I have will all medical providers. As to why it cost so much, I suspect the a fraction of that cost is due to malpractice insurance (easy whipping dog by the office manager).
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RE: Healthcare Reform - 9/16/2009 8:48:59 PM
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_jjp_
Posts: 1822
Joined: 10/25/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wing2000
....the whole "we won't quote you a price until we see you" is one big problem I have will all medical providers. As to why it cost so much, I suspect the a fraction of that cost is due to malpractice insurance (easy whipping dog by the office manager).
when your car has a sputtering engine do you drive up to the mechanic and tell them the problem then demand a quote before they do any testing?
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RE: Healthcare Reform - 9/17/2009 9:25:29 AM
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davelinde
Posts: 475
Joined: 5/5/2006
From: New Jersey
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
when your car has a sputtering engine do you drive up to the mechanic and tell them the problem then demand a quote before they do any testing?
Absolutely I do. I can look up any mechanic in the book and get a quote for brakes, muffler, pretty much any normal maintenance on the phone. They advertise prices and compete. They post hourly labor rates. They break out time and materials on quotes that are easy to understand. Some mechanics now have a flat fee (refundable if the work is done) for diagnosis.
The medical industry is set up to hide costs and obfuscate pricing. If we were talking about complex diagnosis and real questions about the best therapy I MIGHT understand this but I'm looking at the basic stuff. If the basic stuff is this bad... can you imagine how complex and lengthy procedures get priced?
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RE: Healthcare Reform - 9/17/2009 10:47:49 AM
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_jjp_
Posts: 1822
Joined: 10/25/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: davelinde
quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
when your car has a sputtering engine do you drive up to the mechanic and tell them the problem then demand a quote before they do any testing?
Absolutely I do. I can look up any mechanic in the book and get a quote for brakes, muffler, pretty much any normal maintenance on the phone. They advertise prices and compete. They post hourly labor rates. They break out time and materials on quotes that are easy to understand. Some mechanics now have a flat fee (refundable if the work is done) for diagnosis.
that's all well and fine when it is an easily defined problem which is often not the case. Often it takes time for diagnosis which is then rolled into the bill just as what is done with doctors.
quote:
The medical industry is set up to hide costs and obfuscate pricing. If we were talking about complex diagnosis and real questions about the best therapy I MIGHT understand this but I'm looking at the basic stuff. If the basic stuff is this bad... can you imagine how complex and lengthy procedures get priced?
What basic stuff has hidden costs and obfuscation? When i go to the doctor for a flu shot, or an annual checkup, or a quick visit i know what i am being charged (all you have to do is ask). If i need diagnostic testing for an issue i am smart enough to understand that they can't quote me a price that would mean anything until the testing is complete. The problem is that people equate not knowing what they are paying because they don't ask about it until they see it on the insurance bill to the costs being hidden. I have never been denied a price quote from a doctor once the issue has been diagnosed.
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RE: Healthcare Reform - 9/17/2009 1:04:31 PM
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wing2000
Posts: 1077
Joined: 4/14/2005
From: ...the beautiful Sonoran Desert
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
quote:
ORIGINAL: wing2000
....the whole "we won't quote you a price until we see you" is one big problem I have will all medical providers. As to why it cost so much, I suspect the a fraction of that cost is due to malpractice insurance (easy whipping dog by the office manager).
when your car has a sputtering engine do you drive up to the mechanic and tell them the problem then demand a quote before they do any testing?
You are comparing a symptom (sputtering engine) with a defined medical procedure (mole removal for cosmetic reasons). I expect any medical provider can provide an estimate...which would include any test for cancer if necessary.
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RE: Healthcare Reform - 9/17/2009 2:30:54 PM
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_jjp_
Posts: 1822
Joined: 10/25/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wing2000
You are comparing a symptom (sputtering engine) with a defined medical procedure (mole removal for cosmetic reasons). I expect any medical provider can provide an estimate...which would include any test for cancer if necessary.
actually you stated "we won't quote you a price until we see you" which is not a defined medical procedure. That is a doctor wanting to evaluate you to ensure that what you are asking for is what is actually needed, just as any mechanic worth the price is going to want to see the car before he quotes you a repair on anything that isn't explicitly obvious. Once a doctor is absolutely sure what the problem is then it should be no problem to quote you WHICH IS WHAT I EXPLICITLY STATED IN THE POST YOU PARSED IN YOUR QUOTE.
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RE: Healthcare Reform - 9/17/2009 2:56:10 PM
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solo_soprano23
Posts: 2085
Joined: 4/27/2005
From: I'm a Southern girl
Status: offline
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What is this? I agree with jjp?
Looks out to window to see if pigs are flying, lol.
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For God, For Learning, Forever.
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RE: Healthcare Reform - 9/17/2009 9:51:04 PM
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_jjp_
Posts: 1822
Joined: 10/25/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano23
What is this? I agree with jjp?
Looks out to window to see if pigs are flying, lol.
everynow and then i have sane moments. 
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