quote:

I'm not sure if confidence is the chief factor here. Rather, we simply can't stay in Iraq forever.

Sooner or later, we have to go (the Iraqis themselves are celebrating our departure) and then whatever happens after will be the acid test. I truly hope that Iraq can keep itself together, but am not betting on anything.

quote:

And what if Iraq falls into a mullah-led nation a la Iran in 1979? I hope it doesn't happen, but you're acting as if the future of Iraq is clear as day, when it is in fact clear as mud.

quote:

I am willing to bet; if Iraq falls apart within a year after forces pull out, I will gladly apologize to the left and acknowledge their wisdom on the matter; if it doesn't I think those here who have condmened Bush for his actions should apologize for doing so.

quote:

ORIGINAL: todd_t
But that's another argument entirely.

quote:

Actually that is another maniacal conspiracy theory entirely.

quote:

Some people think Watergate was a conspiracy theory too.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jhud

quote:

Honduras isn't run by a delusional thug with nuclear technology, mullah puppet-masters, and a grudge against Israel.

The two situations could not be more unalike.

So we can push countries around if we are stronger than they are, but not if it's actually a risk to us?

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

quote:

ORIGINAL: stellaluna

I'm trying to decide why I should care. (For real.) Can someone explain?

Do you eat bananas; Honduras is our no.1 importer of bananas.

Thanks
RC

quote:

Well yes, because it was

quote:

and demonstrates how hard it is to keep the littlest actions secret much less a government wide 'cabal'.

quote:

You get an "A" in American Foreign Policy, Regime Change and National Defense Strategies in the Twenty-first Century

quote:

ORIGINAL: todd_t

quote:

Actually that is another maniacal conspiracy theory entirely.

Some people think Watergate was a conspiracy theory too.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jhud

quote:

Some people think Watergate was a conspiracy theory too.

Well yes, because it was; and demonstrates how hard it is to keep the littlest actions secret much less a government wide 'cabal'.

quote:

I would also note that under Nixon, Democrats controlled both houses of congress and conservative Republicans didn't support his liberal policies. If half of congress had been Nixon supporters, he would have never had to resign.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jhud

So?

quote:

Or Valerie Plame- or the notion that Iraq didn't have WMDs and the White House influenced the intelligence process.

Most graduates of elite northeastern liberal arts schools aren't arrogant or cynical about the intellect of others, but you do tend to run into people in this mold more often out of certain schools than out of your typical state schools or community colleges. I've met several of these people, and I believe that if Bush is like them, it would have been perfectly in character for him to be cynical about the intelligence of voters and try to adjust the intelligence on Iraq as well as take down Valerie Plame. The chicanery around Medicare Part D may also indicate a certain outlook on the world.

Naturally, Obama isn't exempt, either, but he's taken a very conservative and hands-off approach so far. That said, we have 3.5 or 7.5 years to go to see if we can get any more insight on his true colors.

quote:

You don't remember how conservatives used their bully pulpits to charge that Democrats who had questions about Valerie Plame were conspiracy theorists or were anti-Americans who hated the president?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jhud

quote:

You don't remember how conservatives used their bully pulpits to charge that Democrats who had questions about Valerie Plame were conspiracy theorists or were anti-Americans who hated the president?

What does that have to do with Nixon?

quote:

Nixon has everything to do with the fact that Democrats controlled a house of Congress during Watergate.

quote:

I a cynical of the intelligence of people who buy hog-swallop conspiracy theories to justify heir political beliefs; we know Valerie Plame wasn't outed by Bush, it's a matter of public record. Any contention to the contrary is full blown, grassy-knoll-commies-floridating-the-water nonsense

quote:

While true, Bush gave the authorization to declassify her status and Scooter Libby engaged in some sort of cover-up that Republican special investigator Peter Fitzgerald ultimately charged him with and a jury found him guilty of. To suggest that the Bush administration never engaged in political chicanery is at least a little forgetful of certain felony convictions and grand jury investigations.

quote:

And then there is Iraq. Whether or not Bush actually thought about a second Iraq invasion, there is little dispute over whether some of his closest foreign policy advisors- Condoleeza Rice, Donald Rumsfeld, and Paul Wolfowitz, for example, had already done some lobbying for it and also had done some planning in the hypothetical that Iraq was actually invaded.

If Bush's advisors admit that they planned for a war in Iraq before he even entered office, it is not really that unreasonable to speculate as to whether Bush thought about it at some point before 9/11.

Something tells me that this is one of those conspiracy theories that may be as credible as Al Gore's conspiracy theory about global warming.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jhud
It's also forgetful of what Libby was convicted of - and it wasn't exposing classified information. But facts are annoying, aren't they?

quote:

You are so off track it's not even funny; the whole event was a ruse to cover up for the Bush family's involvement in the Kennedy assasinations. There, now you know - I am sure you supsected all along anyway.

quote:

ORIGINAL: StephK

What does Bush, Libby, Nixon, Valerie Plame et al have to do with the fact that Honduras' other branches of government upheld their constitution in stopping a Hugo Chavez wannabe dictator from setting things up so that he could be "president for life" and that our current TOTUS once again is on the wrong side of the issue?

Charles Krauthammer on Honduras: Obama is Wrong