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RE: Honduras - 7/4/2009 4:11:08 PM
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wing2000
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From: ...the beautiful Sonoran Desert
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...the Miami Herald is doing a fairly decent job of covering the story....from all angles.
this article lays out the events leading up to the PResident's ouster:
http://www.miamiherald.com/579/story/1121928.html
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RE: Honduras - 7/4/2009 4:37:27 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wing2000
...the Miami Herald is doing a fairly decent job of covering the story....from all angles.
this article lays out the events leading up to the PResident's ouster:
http://www.miamiherald.com/579/story/1121928.html
Thanks for the link wing2000, that is the way a am hearing if from some friends in Honduras via email and telephone.
It is really hard to judge their actions by our constitution; for they are different. The last hundered years have been tumultous for them and their constitution allows for them to deal quickly with potential takeovers, even if these takeovers are by an elected official.
Thanks
RC
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Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
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RE: Honduras - 7/8/2009 1:20:41 AM
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yankeedoodled
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Democratically elected President that just so happened to be trying to defy the Constitution and give himself the opportunity to be President/Emperor for life. Seems to easy to leave out the important parts, doesn't it ?
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RE: Honduras - 7/8/2009 11:03:27 AM
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wing2000
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From: ...the beautiful Sonoran Desert
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"After more than a week, the crisis in Honduras remains unresolved, and the media remains unsure of how to portray it......"
What Honduras is...and is not
....btw, I think the OAS/UN handled this situation miserably. Why would a high UN official accompany the Honduran President on an ill-advised trip on Sunday? It's fortunate only one protestor was killed given the tensions his fly over stunt caused....
Thankfully, a real statesmen -- Oscar Arias of Costa Rica - is now leading the effort to negoiate a solution. I think it's interesting that Sec. of State Clinton side stepped a question as to whether the US was set on restoring the deposed President.....
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RE: Honduras - 7/8/2009 11:11:29 AM
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Strider33
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wing2000
Thankfully, a real statesmen -- Oscar Arias of Costa Rica - is now leading the effort to negoiate a solution. I think it's interesting that Sec. of State Clinton side stepped a question as to whether the US was set on restoring the deposed President.....
Any good secretary of state would have done the same thing. Failure to sidestep that question would have undermined Oscar Arias in his role as mediator. Also, if the negotiations went the way the US wants it to go, the resulting president will be seen as a US stooge inside Honduras. If the negotiations go the opposite way, it just makes it harder to restore normal functioning relationships with Honduras.
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Not all those who wander are lost.
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RE: Honduras - 7/8/2009 11:59:48 AM
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ourgreatestSource
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quote:
....btw, I think the OAS/UN handled this situation miserably. Why would a high UN official accompany the Honduran President on an ill-advised trip on Sunday?
They ended up not taking same plane as Zelaya...OAS and the SA Presidents went by "Tango 1"...it was what I read. Zelaya went by Venezuela plane as Venezuela state tv crew was with him all the way and etc.President with a taste for drama/BBC
"José Miguel Insulza, new Chilean head of the Organisation of American States"..Miguel Insulza and OAS
I was reading that Mr. Insulza did not want to hear interim Gov and had already made his mind etc and that he is a lefty..( lefty a la LA style)..well, the few "real/pure/etc" ideological left do not call some players positions left anyways... 
"Insulza takes control of the Organisation of American States at a critical period in its history. It is an organisation whose most solid tradition is its irrelevance. If that is to change, Insulza must make sure that governments and foreign ministries throughout the hemisphere – including the White House and the US state department – take it seriously." 2005.
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RE: Honduras - 7/8/2009 12:25:25 PM
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wing2000
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quote:
They ended up not taking same plane as Zelaya...OAS and the SA Presidents went by "Tango 1"...it was what I read. Zelaya went by Venezuela plane as Venezuela state tv crew was with him all the way and etc.President with a taste for drama/BBC
My understanding is that UN General Assembly President Miguel d'Escoto Brockmann* was on the same plane.
[* the one and same Miguel d'Escoto - who used Liberation Theology to support Sandinistas in 1980's...in fact, he was an official within the Sandinista Junta...so it seems he and José Miguel Insulza share the same political ideology]
In any case, any official who participated in the flight (s) was in my view, tension unnecessarily on the ground. The Arch Bishop and American officials had discouraged the trip.
I'm actually a little suprised the Honduran goverment didn't intercept the plane before it reached Tegucigalpa (Honduras has F5 fighters) and escort them to an air force base in another part of the country...and detain him there). I guess the interim government felt it would be better to keep him out of Honduras entirely...
< Message edited by wing2000 -- 7/8/2009 12:56:17 PM >
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RE: Honduras - 7/8/2009 1:17:10 PM
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ourgreatestSource
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wing2000
quote:
They ended up not taking same plane as Zelaya...OAS and the SA Presidents went by "Tango 1"...it was what I read. Zelaya went by Venezuela plane as Venezuela state tv crew was with him all the way and etc.President with a taste for drama/BBC
My understanding is that UN General Assembly President Miguel d'Escoto Brockmann was on the same plane.
In any case, any official who participated in the flight (s) was in my view, tension unnecessarily on the ground. The Arch Bishop and American officials had discouraged the trip.
I'm actually a little suprised the Honduran goverment didn't intercept the plane before it reached Tegucigalpa (Honduras has F5 fighters) and escort them to an air force base in another part of the country...and detain him there). I guess the interim government felt it would be better to keep him out of Honduras entirely...
"Flying with Zelaya were close advisers and staff, two journalists from the Venezuela-based network Telesur, and U.N. General Assembly President Miguel D'Escoto Brockmann, a leftist Nicaraguan priest and former foreign minister who personally condemned Zelaya's ouster as a coup d'etat. " Zelaya's plane circles...
Yep, they did not want him inside the Country at all..and among the many news about him and his talking non stop on live tv (Justin TV) at some point he mentioned to a report he was somewhere inside Honduras but could not say where...who knows really if it was true or false?
you know wing2000..I have no certainty of my understanding if Mr Brockmann was really inside that plane..its get confusing because couple hours before the ones suppose to travel with Zelaya, decided not to go because safety concerns and I read that Presidents and UN official went together etc and left Zelaya alone...
Well..the lack of certainty and people change their minds and things not going as planned etc is kind of part of cultures of desorganization and etc that happens in some places..even when things are suppose to be official, etc people behave as usual. I was born in a culture like that and would not find surprising some stuff..LOL
I agree with BBC come up with wording "drama", yeh some people and cultures are indeed more dramatic. That can be really irritating if they choose wrong time as try manipulate others and the truth and facts.  
_____________________________
"Whoever has no rule over his own spirit Is like a city broken down, without walls." Prov. 25:28
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RE: Honduras - 7/10/2009 11:16:38 AM
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phreddy
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Opinion piece in LA times:
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-estrada10-2009jul10,0,1570598.story
Miguel Estrada believes that the so called coup was not a coup but was constitutionally mandated. The only questionable part was Zeleya's removal from the country. He should have been arrested and tried for treason for an extra-constitutional power grab.
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Ousted leader returns to Honduras - 9/21/2009 5:30:55 PM
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ourgreatestSource
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"Ousted Honduran President Manuel Zelaya has returned to his country, nearly three months after being deposed."
bbc honduras/zelaya
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"Whoever has no rule over his own spirit Is like a city broken down, without walls." Prov. 25:28
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RE: Ousted leader returns to Honduras - 9/23/2009 2:09:05 PM
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wing2000
Posts: 1067
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What happens next?
I expect the standoff at the Brazilian Embassy will continue for a few days....but it's anyone's guess after that.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0923/p90s01-woam.html
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RE: Ousted leader returns to Honduras - 9/23/2009 7:03:02 PM
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CT23
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I just heard on the news today the interim President of Honduras was denied a visa into the US for the current UN meetings. Okay, so we'll let Chavez, Qadaffi, and Ahmadinejad in but not this guy?
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RE: Ousted leader returns to Honduras - 10/30/2009 3:43:29 PM
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wing2000
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It seems the crisis may be over....
(Reuters) - The need for international recognition of upcoming elections drove the de facto rulers of Honduras to agree with ousted President Manuel Zelaya to end a four-month stalemate, a senior U.S. official said on Friday.
Assistant Secretary of State for Western Hemisphere Affairs Tom Shannon said the deal negotiated on Thursday night was a "huge accomplishment" for Honduras and for democracy in Latin America, and a triumph of dialogue over violence.
"The agreement ... effectively opens a pathway to resolve Honduras' current political crisis and allow the international community to support the Honduran elections on November 29," he told reporters in Washington.
http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSN30429295
**one key provision -- the Honduran Congress has to agree to re-instate Zelaya....we shall see if he has any support left.....
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RE: Ousted leader returns to Honduras - 11/4/2009 6:30:03 PM
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wing2000
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From: ...the beautiful Sonoran Desert
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....and today, the Honduran Congress deferred a vote for re-instatement....stating they want to confer with the Supreme Court (which already supported his ouster). Zeleya may not be coming back after all.....
...Washington's top envoy to Latin America, Thomas Shannon, told CNN en Espanol that the U.S. will recognize the Nov. 29 elections even if the Honduran Congress decides against returning Zelaya to power.
Link
...kinda of ironic how the process went full circle....
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RE: Ousted leader returns to Honduras - 11/5/2009 7:28:18 AM
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Strider33
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The interesting question is whether the Honduran Supreme Court, in its initial decision, challenged democracy or supported it. The Supreme Court ruled that Zelaya had exceeded his powers, and therefore should resign, and this happened before the coup happened. In fact, some would argue that the coup was merely carrying out a court order.
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Not all those who wander are lost.
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RE: Honduras - 11/5/2009 7:31:30 AM
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Strider33
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
My head is spinning. It doesn't help that I don't trust either our media or Venezuelan media much, and all the people who are "speaking out" on one side or another I either don't know well enough to trust, or have no inclination to trust.
Me too.
_____________________________
Not all those who wander are lost.
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RE: Ousted leader returns to Honduras - 11/5/2009 10:18:05 AM
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phreddy
Posts: 386
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wing2000
It seems the crisis may be over....
(Reuters) - The need for international recognition of upcoming elections drove the de facto rulers of Honduras to agree with ousted President Manuel Zelaya to end a four-month stalemate, a senior U.S. official said on Friday.
Assistant Secretary of State for Western Hemisphere Affairs Tom Shannon said the deal negotiated on Thursday night was a "huge accomplishment" for Honduras and for democracy in Latin America, and a triumph of dialogue over violence.
"The agreement ... effectively opens a pathway to resolve Honduras' current political crisis and allow the international community to support the Honduran elections on November 29," he told reporters in Washington.
http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSN30429295
**one key provision -- the Honduran Congress has to agree to re-instate Zelaya....we shall see if he has any support left.....
All the deal does is allow the US to bow out and save face in spite of the fact our government sided against the rule of law in this case.
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RE: Ousted leader returns to Honduras - 11/5/2009 2:09:20 PM
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wing2000
Posts: 1067
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From: ...the beautiful Sonoran Desert
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quote:
ORIGINAL: phreddy
quote:
ORIGINAL: wing2000
It seems the crisis may be over....
(Reuters) - The need for international recognition of upcoming elections drove the de facto rulers of Honduras to agree with ousted President Manuel Zelaya to end a four-month stalemate, a senior U.S. official said on Friday.
Assistant Secretary of State for Western Hemisphere Affairs Tom Shannon said the deal negotiated on Thursday night was a "huge accomplishment" for Honduras and for democracy in Latin America, and a triumph of dialogue over violence.
"The agreement ... effectively opens a pathway to resolve Honduras' current political crisis and allow the international community to support the Honduran elections on November 29," he told reporters in Washington.
http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSN30429295
**one key provision -- the Honduran Congress has to agree to re-instate Zelaya....we shall see if he has any support left.....
All the deal does is allow the US to bow out and save face in spite of the fact our government sided against the rule of law in this case.
....our government and every government around the world.
Regardless of what took place initially, the important point is to allow Honduran institutions to determine their own future....In this case it's likely the Honduran Congress will not act prior to the upcoming election...(couple weeks)...so the question is, will the International community honor the agreement and recognize the election even if the Honduran Congress stalls or refuses to re-instate him?
A Senior U.S. diplomat is already on the record for saying the U.S. will......I expect most of the Intl community will go along with it -- if for no other reason---they are tired of dealing with the issue....as are the majority of Hondurans.
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