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phreddy -> Honduras (6/30/2009 9:06:46 AM)

It is crazy how some many countries are lining up against what they are all calling a coup. The military and the vice president are asserting that they are following their constitution and court orders to stop the exiled president from holding an unconstitutional referendum designed to allow him to get rid of the country's term limits on president. I have not seen any of the exiled president's supporters mention Honduras' constitution or the rule of law. It would be nice if our world leader would do some research before they speak. Or if they have done the research to mention it when they speak.



earthless -> RE: Honduras (6/30/2009 9:07:46 AM)

He has done the research but he is a communist....



StephK -> RE: Honduras (6/30/2009 9:11:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless

He has done the research but he is a communist....


It also only took him a couple hours to speak out against it too unlike taking a week to make a mealy mouth statement regarding the Iran elections and standing up for the people of Iran demanding freedom.



earthless -> RE: Honduras (6/30/2009 9:27:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: StephK

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless

He has done the research but he is a communist....


It also only took him a couple hours to speak out against it too unlike taking a week to make a mealy mouth statement regarding the Iran elections and standing up for the people of Iran demanding freedom.


It's more natural and easier to speak up about what you believe in.. then to be forced to make comments on something you don't really care about.

Yeah, I said it.



stellaluna -> RE: Honduras (6/30/2009 9:35:41 AM)

I'm trying to decide why I should care. (For real.) Can someone explain?



StephK -> RE: Honduras (6/30/2009 9:45:45 AM)

Instead of a new Hugo Chavez like dictator setting up in Honduras the people, Honduran Supreme Court and the military kicked out the marxist president who was trying to eliminate term limits. IOW the ouster was due to following the constitution. You should care in that it shows exactly where our Dear Leader's views are on these matters.



earthless -> RE: Honduras (6/30/2009 9:48:23 AM)

Our Dear Leader has sided with Castro and Chavez on this issue.



rcjames -> RE: Honduras (6/30/2009 10:25:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless

Our Dear Leader has sided with Castro and Chavez on this issue.


Possibly he fears the same fate as Zeva;a.

Thanks
RC



rcjames -> RE: Honduras (6/30/2009 10:27:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stellaluna

I'm trying to decide why I should care. (For real.) Can someone explain?


Do you eat bananas; Honduras is our no.1 importer of bananas.

I care because I say let freedom ring; and rejoice whenever any peoples stand against a tyrinnacal government.

Thanks
RC



ourgreatestSource -> RE: Honduras (6/30/2009 11:02:40 AM)

quote:

It is crazy how some many countries are lining up against what they are all calling a coup.


YEH it's crazy indeed!
Taking into consideration that his aprove ratings were less than 30%, he was becoming more and more like another H.Chaves follower, wanting go against their Constitution about prohibition 2nd mandate extension, "firing" a General for takes sides with Constitutions not him and many more etcs..its trully crazy that majority of the world want him back in Honduras.

There is a shift going on about left in South America, Argentinians voting left out, weakening its power also.

Brasilian gov. Lula is not allowing Brasilian Embassador, vocationing in Brasil @ the moment, to go back to Honduras. Many Brasilians do not agree with their gov position, wishing same happened in Brasil, also. Because of so much corruption, scandals and the realities of having left working party PT in power the realization that majority politicians are the same, any party..many people are wishing the military back in Brasil, to get rid of high corruption, all levels, at the nation 3 powers structures. People are getting really frustrate because doesn't matter who they vote to: right or left or whatever, politicians have a corruption machine working into their advantages of power and $$$$.

The truth of the matter is, it seems after a taste of the left in power for a while, people, at least those who are paying attention to what is going on...[:D]are making up their mind, getting really mad, wanting change by 2010 elections. The problem to many is to find a Presidential candidate any party who are not corrupted by the system...maybe for this motive some or many people are tired of politicians and "dreaming" with Military back in power, to put order in the house, close Congress, to make a general clean up and etc. [8|]

Out politicians! Welcome Military..just for a while.[8D]



Heatherlea -> RE: Honduras (6/30/2009 11:10:29 AM)

I have a couple of friends, who are missionaries who were going back to Honduras after being in the states for a year. My parents with a group from my church were in Honduras last year. The situation with this coup is complicated, I was a little suprised Pres. Obama took the Honduran President's side. Iwill definately keep this country and all of its missionaries in my prayers



Jhud -> RE: Honduras (6/30/2009 11:49:53 AM)

I love the way Obama was being portrayed as a deliberative man, thoughtfully considering the situation in Iran, not wanting to jump in and create the perception that we are interjecting ourselves into another country’s disputes - and then virtually the second there is a change in Honduras (which he apparently opposes) he blurts out his opinion on the matter. Apparently some international events are more equal than others.



todd_t -> RE: Honduras (6/30/2009 12:01:47 PM)

quote:

It also only took him a couple hours to speak out against it too unlike taking a week to make a mealy mouth statement regarding the Iran elections and standing up for the people of Iran demanding freedom.


Honduras isn't run by a delusional thug with nuclear technology, mullah puppet-masters, and a grudge against Israel.

The two situations could not be more unalike.

quote:

Apparently some international events are more equal than others.


Jack, how naive could you possibly be? This has always been the case with American politics.

Consider Bush charging into Iraq under the banner of making people free while in Africa (Sudan, Sierra Leone) atrocities (e.g. rape gangs, people maimed with hatchets, men lined up and shot, boys kidnapped, forced labor) from inter-tribal warfare was (and remains) off the scale.

The chief difference being that Africa did not fall within the bounds of the Bush Doctrine, and Iraq had huge oil deposits to be defended.



Jhud -> RE: Honduras (6/30/2009 12:09:30 PM)

quote:

Honduras isn't run by a delusional thug with nuclear technology, mullah puppet-masters, and a grudge against Israel.

The two situations could not be more unalike.


So we can push countries around if we are stronger than they are, but not if it's actually a risk to us?



todd_t -> RE: Honduras (6/30/2009 12:12:48 PM)

quote:

So we can push countries around if we are stronger than they are, but not if it's actually a risk to us?


We've been doing so for ages. Why do you think we've done next to nothing about North Korea? The US lacks the military advantage it enjoys in Iraq.



Jhud -> RE: Honduras (6/30/2009 12:19:04 PM)

quote:

Jack, how naive could you possibly be? This has always been the case with American politics.

Consider Bush charging into Iraq under the banner of making people free while in Africa (Sudan, Sierra Leone) atrocities (e.g. rape gangs, people maimed with hatchets, men lined up and shot, boys kidnapped, forced labor) from inter-tribal warfare was (and remains) off the scale.

The chief difference being that Africa did not fall within the bounds of the Bush Doctrine, and Iraq had huge oil deposits to be defended.


Well, first off Iraq has worked out pretty well. Secondly, unlike many parts of Africa (and like Iran) Iraq/Iran has and had well defined leadership structure and a government that could actually be held accountable for it's actions, rather than the disparate and often anarchical factions that dominate those regions in Africa. And one need not claim that one needs to clean up the whole world to note that Obama's recent responses are completely contradictory and confusing, and that he has it completely backward in terms of the seriousness with which he takes certain world events, as do you.



Jhud -> RE: Honduras (6/30/2009 12:23:10 PM)

quote:

We've been doing so for ages. Why do you think we've done next to nothing about North Korea? The US lacks the military advantage it enjoys in Iraq.


Well the difference is that N. Korea actually apparently has nukes, Iran does not yet have them. N. Korea has absolutely no cohesive opposition to it's current dictator, Iran's is dying in the street while our President 'witnesses'.

But the real issue is willingness to at least speak out against evil. At least Bush recognized those countries as representing real evil (in fact an axis of the same) Obama apparently can't even get that far.



StephK -> RE: Honduras (6/30/2009 12:25:25 PM)

quote:

Honduras isn't run by a delusional thug with nuclear technology, mullah puppet-masters, and a grudge against Israel.

The two situations could not be more unalike.


You are right. Honduras obviously had the foresight and fortitude to make sure that a dictator to be was not able to set himself up for life. 0bama, "the supposed Constitutional scholar", took the side of the marxist Hugo Chavez wannabe instead of supporting those who were following the Honduran constitution. You would think that a "constitutional scholar" would be more in line to supporting other democratic countries instead of once again siding with those who would quash freedom. [8|]



parkerbrother -> RE: Honduras (6/30/2009 12:26:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: StephK

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless

He has done the research but he is a communist....


It also only took him a couple hours to speak out against it too unlike taking a week to make a mealy mouth statement regarding the Iran elections and standing up for the people of Iran demanding freedom.


The reason Obama withheld comment on the Iran situation is to prevent the Supreme Consul from blaming the unrest on US interference, forcing them to accept it as a spontaneous demonstration by the people of Iran. Obama's handling of the Iranian situation has been applauded buy most people who actually know something about the situation, on the right and left.

As for Honduras, a military overthrow of an elected government rarely leads to anything good and for Obama to not criticize it would have been unthinkable.



todd_t -> RE: Honduras (6/30/2009 12:28:31 PM)

quote:

Well, first off Iraq has worked out pretty well.


That remains to be seen. The real test will be after the US leaves town.

quote:

And one need not claim that one needs to clean up the whole world to note that Obama's recent responses are completely contradictory and confusing, and that he has it completely backward in terms of the seriousness with which he takes certain world events, as do you.


In Iran, there is far more at risk regarding regional politics than Honduras.

I'd also sooner see Obama take a careful approach toward the past election's (not that it was a real election) outcome than rattle sabres like a few moronic neo-cons did because the US will likely have to deal with Ahmadinejad for the foreseeable future whether we like him or not.

quote:

The reason Obama withheld comment on the Iran situation is to prevent the Supreme Consul from blaming the unrest on US interference


Which they have indeed done - despite it being so ridiculous. Yes, the West has meddled in Iranian internal affairs before, but I don't see it here.



Jhud -> RE: Honduras (6/30/2009 12:35:20 PM)

quote:

That remains to be seen. The real test will be after the US leaves town.


Yes, well the fact that we are confidently doing just that says a lot.


quote:

In Iran, there is far more at risk regarding regional politics than Honduras.

I'd also sooner see Obama take a careful approach toward the past election's (not that it was a real election) outcome than rattle sabres like a few moronic neo-cons did because the US will likely have to deal with Ahmadinejad for the foreseeable future whether we like him or not.


Well those 'moronic neo-cons' will soon have the one of the very few middle east democracies under their belt in Iraq, something Iran now longs for. And so far, the world seems to be falling apart on Obama's watch; so we will see how the 'do-nothing' approach fairs in the long run.

Of course, the point here is that Obama is not being 'careful' at all in his response to Honduras - which just verifies my original contention.



todd_t -> RE: Honduras (6/30/2009 12:35:32 PM)

quote:

Well the difference is that N. Korea actually apparently has nukes, Iran does not yet have them.


That and that China is North Korea's chief ally. Iran has no such big brother.

quote:

But the real issue is willingness to at least speak out against evil.


Obama has spoken out against what's going on in Tehran, more than once. And even prominent conservatives have backed the way in which he's responded to the situation.



todd_t -> RE: Honduras (6/30/2009 12:40:49 PM)

quote:

Yes, well the fact that we are confidently doing just that says a lot.


I'm not sure if confidence is the chief factor here. Rather, we simply can't stay in Iraq forever.

Sooner or later, we have to go (the Iraqis themselves are celebrating our departure) and then whatever happens after will be the acid test. I truly hope that Iraq can keep itself together, but am not betting on anything.

quote:

Well those 'moronic neo-cons' will soon have the one of the very few middle east democracies under their belt in Iraq


And what if Iraq falls into a mullah-led nation a la Iran in 1979? I hope it doesn't happen, but you're acting as if the future of Iraq is clear as day, when it is in fact clear as mud.



Jhud -> RE: Honduras (6/30/2009 12:42:22 PM)

quote:

That and that China is North Korea's chief ally. Iran has no such big brother.


All the more reason to be less tentative.

quote:

Obama has spoken out against what's going on in Tehran, more than once. And even prominent conservatives have backed the way in which he's responded to the situation.


Obama eventually gave rather tepid responses, after being pushed by conservatives and the press, to what has happened in Iran. And even then Ahmadinejad mocked him, asking him for an apology for not accepting his election. Obama reacted within hours of Honduras action, condemning it out of hand. It's a contradictory response.



todd_t -> RE: Honduras (6/30/2009 12:43:52 PM)

quote:

It's a contradictory response.


I still say the two situations could not be more dissimilar on a geo-political level.



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