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RE: Ongoing Bible Study - 7/7/2009 5:09:19 PM
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prayn4u
Posts: 4719
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I found this information relevant to comparing "kingdom of God" and "kingdom of heaven", (I haven't personally verified it...)
quote:
The phrase “kingdom of God” occurs 68 times in 10 different New Testament books,
while “kingdom of heaven” occurs only 32 times, and only in the Gospel of Matthew.
...In the same parable, the authors used different words, indicating that the two are referring to the same thing. Compare Matthew 11:11-12 with Luke 7:28; Matthew 13:11 with Mark 4:11 and Luke 8:10; Matthew 13:24 with Mark 4:26; Matthew 13:31 with Mark 4:30 and Luke 13:18; Matthew 13:33 with Luke 13:20; Matthew 18:3 with Mark 10:14 and Luke 18:16; and Matthew 22:2 with Luke 13:29. In each of these instances, Matthew used the phrase “kingdom of heaven” while Mark and/or Luke used “kingdom of God.” Clearly, the two phrases are interchangeable because they refer to the same thing.
Link to gotquestions.org (at this link the verses "pop up" for easy comparison)
_____________________________
~ Rejoice in hope ~ be patient in tribulation ~ be constant in prayer ~ Romans 12:12 ESV
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RE: Ongoing Bible Study - 7/7/2009 7:15:46 PM
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RustyCarr
Posts: 972
Joined: 3/11/2009
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quote:
ORIGINAL: prayn4u
I found this information relevant to comparing "kingdom of God" and "kingdom of heaven", (I haven't personally verified it...)
quote:
The phrase “kingdom of God” occurs 68 times in 10 different New Testament books,
while “kingdom of heaven” occurs only 32 times, and only in the Gospel of Matthew.
...In the same parable, the authors used different words, indicating that the two are referring to the same thing. Compare Matthew 11:11-12 with Luke 7:28; Matthew 13:11 with Mark 4:11 and Luke 8:10; Matthew 13:24 with Mark 4:26; Matthew 13:31 with Mark 4:30 and Luke 13:18; Matthew 13:33 with Luke 13:20; Matthew 18:3 with Mark 10:14 and Luke 18:16; and Matthew 22:2 with Luke 13:29. In each of these instances, Matthew used the phrase “kingdom of heaven” while Mark and/or Luke used “kingdom of God.” Clearly, the two phrases are interchangeable because they refer to the same thing.
Link to gotquestions.org (at this link the verses "pop up" for easy comparison)
Geeze! I got it backwards! Oh well, you straightened me up AND found something that confirms my understanding, which you noted in bold above.
I am a layman, "self taught," but always seeking confirmation of the Word and my understanding of it. I came to the conclusion years ago that they were speaking of the same thing. I remembered that, but forgot who liked "heaven" and who peferred "God."
Notice that the first sentence of the above paragraph is scriptural, too. I say this because even in Bible studies we must be mindful of the Holy Spirit and the Word of God in our own hearts. That way we won't be misguided by misguided men.
Jn 6:45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me.
Pr 2:1 My son, if you accept my words and store up my commands within you,
Pr 2:2 turning your ear to wisdom and applying your heart to understanding,
Pr 2:3 and if you call out for insight and cry aloud for understanding,
Pr 2:4 and if you look for it as for silver and search for it as for hidden treasure, (Notice "treasure," too. It denotes something tangible, real, and obtainable.)
Pr 2:5 then you will understand the fear of the LORD and find the knowledge of God.
Pr 2:6 For the LORD gives wisdom, and from his mouth come knowledge and understanding.
So, in a search for the kingdom of heaven, we can interchange "heaven" and "God." This is important because I want to show you guys/gals something. It is really cool. It blew my mind years ago. Please humor me and see if I can sort of lead this study for awhile.
More premises:
1. The kingdom of heaven is unique. There is only ONE. "HIS" kingdom. People cannot have their "own" kingdom or "parts of" His kingdom and call it the kingdom of heaven/God and be truthful.
2. They are called the "Gospels of the Kingdom of God." They speak of Jesus and His TRUTH, the Truth of God. No one else's, and there exists NO OTHER TRUTH THROUGHOUT CREATION, only the goofy ideas of men.
Ac 28:31 Boldly and without hindrance he preached the kingdom of God and taught about the Lord Jesus Christ.
3. Jesus said, "Seek first His kingdom and His righteouness..." Only HIS, not our own, for if we allow our own ideas and errors to cloud our minds, it will be difficult to "see" the kingdom of heaven, and it will stunt the renewing of the mind. Jesus said "seek" He wouldn't say it if it couldn't be found.
Check out all the parables about the kingdom of God/heaven, and post your favorite. And post any questions about any of them.
Blessings,
Rusty
_____________________________
It is better to obey God rather than men. The Truth, God's word, within is the lamp that guides our feet. -For the Lord gives wisdom, and from His mouth come knowledge and understanding. Prov. 2:6-
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RE: Ongoing Bible Study - 7/8/2009 9:40:27 AM
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sparkleingsnow
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quote:
Original: RustyCarr
Yes, you both put it very well, but for me, sparklelingsnow, I understand "heart" better than "soul." ...but our hearts are in the Kingdom of God.
That is just a personal preference, probably something to do with "writing the Word of God on our hearts."
Yes, I have to agree with you Rusty. I thought about it later and knew I hadn't worded it right. Our heart, our desire, our intermost being, for we are His.
Great information prayn4u. 
I loved the scripture you posted Rusty. Yes, we are to seek wisdom and understanding. And proverbs also teaches us that Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom/knowledge.
Proverbs 9:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.
Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
_____________________________
The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower. Psalms 18:2
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RE: Ongoing Bible Study - 7/8/2009 10:24:59 AM
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RustyCarr
Posts: 972
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Please forgive my "greenness" on this. This is the first time I have tried to share this with others since it was confirmed to be right a couple years ago. It is like trying to solve a math equation with mixed up numbers. When you get the right numbers in the right places, you get the right answer. Light bulbs went off, powerfully.
I found a better way than "favorite" parables. I went through the concordance and read every verse with the kingdom of "God/heaven" in it. First, I noticed how many verses had "go and preach the kingdom of God" and I wondered why I don't here that coming from the pulpit.
Let me list some of them and give a little statement pertaining to them:
Mt 12:27 And if I drive out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. What you believe affects you, not me. If you are in error, your will miss the kingdom of God.
Mt 12:28 But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. But, if you believe me (Jesus) and my words the you have found the kingdom of God.
Mt 19:24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” Obviously, a rich fellow doesn't need God. His needs are being met by his riches. Same goes for a rich country like the U.S.A.
Mt 19:25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”
Mt 19:26 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” Thank goodness for that! I wonder how much loss of riches and suffering will occur before America turns back to God.
Mt 21:31“I tell you the truth, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you. Since the preachers of that day didn't teach "the kingdom of God" others were entering before them.
Mt 21:43 “Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit. The descendents of Abraham had difficulty believing Jesus was who he said he was. they thought the twisted blind stuff they were doing was correct, but God desires LOVE and RIGHTEOUSNESS, not sacrifices.
Mt 21:44 He who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls will be crushed.” He who falls on their knees before the King of Kings will have his heart convicted and broken into pieces. Upon whom the King of kings falls and judges, will be crushed.
Mk 1:15 “The kingdom of God is near. Repent and believe the good news!” The FIRST thing Jesus preached to the masses.
Mk 4:11 He told them, “The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables The right numbers in the right places in the equation have been given to the desciples...Mk 4:12 so that, “ ‘they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!’ The prophet knew that there the descendents of Abraham were stiff necked and wise in their own eyes, AND he knew that God's plan included the gentiles...
Mk 4:26 He also said, “This is what the kingdom of God is like. A man scatters seed on the ground.
Mk 4:27 Night and day, whether he sleeps or gets up, the seed sprouts and grows, though he does not know how.
Mk 4:28 All by itself the soil produces grain—first the stalk, then the head, then the full kernel in the head.
Mk 4:29 As soon as the grain is ripe, he puts the sickle to it, because the harvest has come.” Preaching the kingdom of God produces fruit. The "soil" is the "TRUTH." When a man/woman is rooted in the Truth they grow and mature then we can sing the old song "Bringing in the Sheeves."
Mk 9:1 And he said to them, “I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God come with power.” After Jesus's death for our sin, He was raised to life again WITH POWER. The King of Kings!
Mk 9:47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, Basically, "Go, and sin no more."
Mk 9:48 where “ ‘their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.’ The worm of "self" and the fire of sin is difficult to get rid of.
Mk 9:49 Everyone will be salted with fire. Refining fire..
Mk 9:50 “Salt is good, but if it loses its saltiness, how can you make it salty again? Have salt in yourselves, and be at peace with each other.” Righteousness is good, but if people lose their righteousness... support, encourage, love, and be at peace with one another.
Mk 10:14 When Jesus saw this, he was indignant. He said to them, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.
Mk 10:15 I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.”Humble and teachable like a child. Recieve the Truth like you believed your teacher in first grade when she said, "two plus two is four."
Mk 12:34 When Jesus saw that he had answered wisely, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And from then on no one dared ask him any more questions. I hope the church in America is "not far from the kingdom of God" then we may have a great revival with a simple correction.
Mk 15:43 Joseph of Arimathea, a prominent member of the Council, who was himself waiting for the kingdom of God, went boldly to Pilate and asked for Jesus’ body. I wonder if this Joseph was expecting the kingdom of God to come and annoint Jesus as king on earth? I believe the kingdom of God came when Jesus was raised from the dead with power. The second coming, AFTER THE TRUTH HAS PRUDUCED A CROP, IS WHEN JESUS WILL BE ENTHRONED OVER ALL THE EARTH.
Lk 4:43 But he said, “I must preach the good news of the kingdom of God t to the other towns also, because that is why I was sent.” This makes me wonder why the kingdom of God is not taught very often in churches?
Lk 9:2 and he sent them out to preach the kingdom of God
Lk 9:62 Jesus replied, “No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God.” Tough verse...
Lk 13:28 “There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out. The descendents of Abraham, wise in their own eyes will be thrown out because they did not believe Jesus was the Messiah.
Lk 13:29 People will come from east and west and north and south, and will take their places at the feast in the kingdom of God. The gentiles...
Lk 13:30 Indeed there are those who are last who will be first, and first who will be last.” It takes a long time for the descendents of Abraham to get the picture. They wind up being last.
Lk 17:20 Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation,
Lk 17:21 nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is within you.” This is a great verse. It is part of the "equation."
Lk 18:29 “I tell you the truth,” Jesus said to them, “no one who has left home or wife or brothers or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God
Lk 18:30 will fail to receive many times as much in this age and, in the age to come, eternal life.” More tough verses. I admit I am testing these, because "How can darkness mix with light?" Picture a Muslim family when one member finds the Kingdom and converts. He can't stay there...
Jn 3:3 In reply Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again. Renewing of the mind from that which we have grown up with into the Truth of God.
Jn 3:6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.
Jn 3:7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’
Jn 3:8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.” Combine these verses with: Jn 6:63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life. Be born of the Word of God, the Truth, place it within you and love it because he first loved you... "If you love me, you will obey my commands." And when the Holy Spirit of love comes and convicts you of error, boy, He sure humbled me and made me cry...
KINGDOM OF HEAVEN--remember, same as kingdom of God
Mt 5:10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Note here that you can't "see" in your minds eye the kingdom of heaven without being righteous.
Mt 5:20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven. Can we apply this to misguided preachers and wolves in sheeps clothing?
Mt 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Mt 7:22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’
Mt 7:23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ Hmmm.....
Mt 10:7 As you go, preach this message: ‘The kingdom of heaven f is near.’ It is near, it is NOT far away!
Mt 13:44 “The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field. When a man found it, he hid it again, and then in his joy went and sold all he had and bought that field.
Mt 13:45 “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant looking for fine pearls.
Mt 13:46 When he found one of great value, he went away and sold everything he had and bought it. These are some of my favorite verses.
Mt 13:52 He said to them, “Therefore every teacher of the law who has been instructed about the kingdom of heaven is like the owner of a house who brings out of his storeroom new treasures as well as old.” New treasures from the Gospel of Jesus, as well as Old Testament treasure.
Mt 23:13 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to." Hmmm.... why don't I hear more preaching from the pulpit about the kingdom of heaven? "Seek FIRST..."
Okay, that is enough of that. There aare other important verses for the equation which contain only "kingdom" and only "heaven." I'll get to those in the next post and then complete the equation, but for now...Comments, observations.
Thanks for this opportunity. I need this practice, and I hope I succeed in amazing you with some simple Truth that makes you say, "Wow! Why didn't I see that before!"
Blessings,
Rusty
_____________________________
It is better to obey God rather than men. The Truth, God's word, within is the lamp that guides our feet. -For the Lord gives wisdom, and from His mouth come knowledge and understanding. Prov. 2:6-
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RE: Ongoing Bible Study - 7/8/2009 3:28:52 PM
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prayn4u
Posts: 4719
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Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
Sparkleingsnow, so if I am understanding correctly Romans 14:17 is saying that The Kingdom of God is about godly living and not about the material.
Luke 9:62 (NKJV) But Jesus said to him, "No one, having put his hand to the plow, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God."
RustyCarr, I too, paused when I read that verse, so with some checking this is what I found:
quote:
Robertson's Word Pictures
"having put his hand to the plow" This agricultural proverb is as old as Hesiod. Pliny observes that the ploughman who does not bend attentively to his work goes crooked. It has always been the ambition of the ploughman to run a straight furrow.
Upon further reading in context and other commentaries, I feel this means as Christians we are to maintain our focus, not to be distracted or have a divided heart.
quote:
Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary
No one can do any business in a proper manner, if he is attending to other things. Those who begin with the work of God, must resolve to go on, or they will make nothing of it. Looking back, leads to drawing back, and drawing back is to perdition. He only that endures to the end shall be saved.
< Message edited by prayn4u -- 7/8/2009 3:35:57 PM >
_____________________________
~ Rejoice in hope ~ be patient in tribulation ~ be constant in prayer ~ Romans 12:12 ESV
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RE: Ongoing Bible Study - 7/8/2009 7:43:53 PM
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sparkleingsnow
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I wouldn't say it was about Godly living (although thats part of following Jesus), as much as I would say it's about Him working within us. As we seek Him and focus on Him how He covers us with His righteousness and fills us with His peace and joy.
Back to our song,
"Turn your eyes upon Jesus,
look full in His wonderful face.
And the things of earth will grow stranglely dim'
in the light of His glory and grace." 
Rusty, it's going to take me a while to respond to your post, so it may be tomorrow before I can reply.
_____________________________
The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower. Psalms 18:2
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RE: Ongoing Bible Study - 7/9/2009 10:41:59 AM
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RustyCarr
Posts: 972
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I'm glad your putting up with me! Please be at ease. Don't write me off, or jump on board too eagerly. (I don't think that is a problem) But be led by the Holy Spirit and the Word itself.
Anyway, remember that verse in proverbs describing wisdom and understanding as "treasure." Here is another verse to keep in mind.
Lk 2:19 But Mary treasured up all these things and pondered them in her heart.
So, in my search for the kingdom of heaven, I found that Jesus said it is near, and that I need to "Seek first his kingdom..." But then, Jesus told Pilate this: Jn 18:36 Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place.” How does this reconcile with, the kingdom of heaven is near?
Jn 18:37 “You are a king, then!” said Pilate. Jesus answered, “You are right in saying I am a king. In fact, for this reason I was born, and for this I came into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.”
It reconciles with Luke 17:21 Lk 17:21 nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is within you.” We have a King and a Father "within us." We have love and God's Truth within us. We have a Holy Spirit within us to guide us into the Truth. No one can take that kingdom from us, because there is NO OTHER TRUTH, and NO OTHER KING! We are to be servants of this King because He loves us and We love Him. We earnestly seek to understand His commands, statutes, and regulations as Abraham did. AND we share all this with our brothers and sisters in the Kingdom of God. Now, the Truth can produce a crop from this lost world. The Truth works from the inside, from the heart, not by force or by threat like man's governments do. God wants men who have their hearts right with Him,... because they love Him, and respectfully fear His authority. Who is man, but dust of the earth. Man is not God. (The fear of man is a snare.. Prov.) The serpant tricked Adam and Eve, but we can now avoid the deception of a proud vain heart because Jesus has opened the door for us....
What next? What do we do now that we are here at this point n the equation? What does Jesus ask us to do? Mt 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mt 28:20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” This is another part of the equation. We are to love and teach, love and teach, LOVE AND TEACH THE TRUTH AND THE KINGDOM OF GOD. And this should be a joy among our brothers and sisters in the kingdom, and it is a joy to love and teach our offspring, first the tender love of God for them, and as they grow GOD'S WISDOM, GOD'S DEFINITIONS OF MORALITY, JUSTICE, AND LOVE. This is so important.... and it is a joy to see a child's face light up with joy, and love, and confidence in the Truth. (The government schools are stealing the minds of our chidren and their faces are downcast)
Sidenote: I don't see God's love and wisdom getting out to upcoming generations in the U.S.A. Isn't God's wisdom higher than secular humanism, political correctness, hedonism, etc?
Here are the verses that blew my mind: Mt 6:19 “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal.
Mt 6:20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal.
Mt 6:21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
Where is heaven? "Within you." How do you store up treasure there? BY MAKING HAPPY MEMORIES. But Mary treasured up all these things and pondered them in her heart.
AND IF WE ARE LOVING AND TEACHING, HOW CAN WE NOT MAKE HAPPY MEMORIES? WE WILL MAKE MANY HAPPY MEMORIES AND AVOID PAINFUL MEMORIES BECAUSE WE ARE AVOIDING SIN AND THE NATURAL CONSEQUENCES OF SIN.
There is simply NOTHING more important to life than the full Truth of God. And we need to be the family of God guarding and spreading HIS TRUTH. Protecting and training the little ones... and again, what a joy it is to do that lovingly and compitently and firmly united in the full Truth. Jn 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 6:63 "The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are LIFE."
So that really blew me away, and I enthusiastically wanted to start storing up "treasure in heaven." I had a pile of painful junk (bad memories) in heaven, and I wanted to bury it under a huge pile of treasure (happy, wise, and wonderful memories).
For contrast, I want to share where I am at personally. I was an immature Christian when I was married to my first wife. When my sons were born, I thought it was time to grow up and raise a family, leaving the barstool "social life" behind. I tried to steer that way, but arguments tore our relationship apart. I incompetently wanted to go the way of Truth, the right way, but my ex didn't know the Truth, much less love it. We were unequally yoked and I was too immature to see the solution before it was too late.
So, in incompitently doing the right thing, I met resistance from my ex. During the divorce, still trying to do the right thing better and make happy memories standing for the Truth, I met a judge who resisted common sense and common decency. He probably knew more truth than my ex, but he didnt love it. He thinks the definition of "Love your neighbor" includes stealing children and income from not-at-fault fathers and giving them to adulterous mothers. He did not love my ex enough to point her in the right direction, choosing instead to force me to support her destructive lifestyle. One judge even put me in handcuffs, legirons, and a cell for telling him, "No one loves my sons more than I do, you guys certainly don't. I have asked for my sons back every time I have set foot in a courtroom. I didn't want them taken in the first place! Children are a blessing, not a burden. Give them back if she is too irresponsible to raise them..."
So, to the above paragraph we can apply this: Mt 5:10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mt 5:11 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.
Mt 5:12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven (treasure, memories), for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
I applied it that way. I stayed innocent and did not attack, while they continued to attack me and tell my sons that I was a bad guy for standing against the court, refusing to reward irresponsibility and demanding my sons back. I had all the normal threats and garnishments that the government throws at fathers. I quit jobs when my wages were stolen and requested a hearing to remind the judge that their application of law was punishing the innocent and rewarding the guilty. I wrote too manuscripts, a memior, and Freedom, Liberty, and the Truth for America's Fathers. Okay, so that is a tough refining fire, but I do have many happy and funny memories, too.
While going through the above. I found it necessary to avoid mentioning it to people and pastors at church. Later on through it, I set church aside. I just couldn't find friends there. When I finshed my manuscripts I sent some copies out to friends and family for input. The memior actually moved my family to speak to my ex and get her to get the government out of my back pocket, since my sons were grown. I wish they would have spoken to her before the divorce. It might have saved the family if they were loving and compitent in "Therefore going and teaching.." and if we were truly in a happy wholesome mature church. But we weren't. The churches in the small town were dead and joyless. No "social life" there.
So, I went through that alone. Now that it is over and my manuscripts are done, I am trying to find friends in the church, again. I still want to store up treasure in heaven. But, I am still finding resistance. I scare people with my testimony. When I say that we need to wake up fathers in this country, they get offended. There is joy and treasure in "training them up in the way they should go." The fathers of my ex and the judge missed out on that joy and treasure, and the fathers I encounter in churches run away from me. One pastor even said my services were not needed in his church.
I am tired. I am giving up. I am thankful for this board and very happy to be a friend of supernova and others, but I seem to be simply giving up. After all of my hard work, all of the standing firm in the Truth, all of writing two manuscripts, all of loving my sons and hoping to share God with them, I still cannot find a friend, except Jesus. I don't know what to do next. I am so tired and discouraged. You people have been refreshing and a source of hope, outside the Bible, but it seems I am in danger of simply giving up on God. I can't find men/women who seriously want to stand and protect, and teach, and love, and pass on God's wisdom to our children so that when they become judges and public servants, and businessmen, and lawyers, they will know HOW to love their neighbors justly and unafraid to stand on the authority of God and righteousness. I don't know what else to do? I'm stuck. And I can't even store up treasure with friends and family.... I can't reach them. They are content in "normal," in going through life in the school of hard knocks while God patiently waits for them to turn and give their hearts to fully loving and trusting Him and His word. And storing up treasure in their hearts, in heaven.... where God is, where love comes from where the Truth is KNOWN... Jn 8:32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
Oh well.......
Does that equation work? Did I make sense? Can I explain it further? Are we, the church and fathers, missing out on "storing up treasure in heaven?"
Blessings,
Rusty
When unequally yoked consider this. I love my unbelieving spouse, therefore I desire to share the kingdom of God with her. She claims to love me, but resists God and will not open a Bible. Does she really love? Does she really know HOW to love, storing up treasure. Does she know God, who is love. 1John 4:8 Do I truly love her?
Yes, I love her the way God would have me do it, but she loves me according to her own desires, and her own emotions, and her own truth which is missing God's full Truth. But she is comfortable there and gets upset if I bring up too much Bible.... Scripture says her heart is at enmity with God. She needs to "Repent, for the kingdom of God is near."
< Message edited by RustyCarr -- 7/9/2009 8:21:57 PM >
_____________________________
It is better to obey God rather than men. The Truth, God's word, within is the lamp that guides our feet. -For the Lord gives wisdom, and from His mouth come knowledge and understanding. Prov. 2:6-
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RE: Ongoing Bible Study - 7/9/2009 3:23:04 PM
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sparkleingsnow
Posts: 5044
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Regarding post #103.
Rusty, I think a lot of what you say is right on, but there is some that I'm not so sure about. It's taken out of context and when you put it in contet it has a different meaning.
quote:
Let me list some of them and give a little statement pertaining to them:
Mt 12:27 And if I drive out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. What you believe affects you, not me. If you are in error, your will miss the kingdom of God.
Mt 12:28 But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. But, if you believe me (Jesus) and my words the you have found the kingdom of God.
Context:
Mt 12:22 Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw.
23 And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?
24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand? (KJV)
Jesus is responding to what the Pharisees said and is saying that if He cast out devils through satan's power, satan would be working against his self, but if He's doing in God's power (and He was) that He was who He said He was, the Son of God.
quote:
Mt 21:31“I tell you the truth, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you. Since the preachers of that day didn't teach "the kingdom of God" others were entering before them.
I think your thoughts on this scripture are being colored by your feelings about the church not teaching what you think they should.
See what I mean?
Also it is so long and includes so much for me it is mind boggleing. It might be be better to take two or three verses at a time (including context) and post your understanding about them.
Regarding post #107
I enjoyed the first half very much. I have to disagree with you here:
quote:
Here are the verses that blew my mind: Mt 6:19 “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. Mt 6:20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. Mt 6:21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
Where is heaven? "Within you." How do you store up treasure there? BY MAKING HAPPY MEMORIES. But Mary treasured up all these things and pondered them in her heart.
Mt 6:19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
According to Strongs treasure as used here (thesauros) means:
a deposit, i.e. wealth (literally or figuratively):--treasure.
And heaven (ouranos) means:
(through the idea of elevation); the sky; by extension, heaven (as the abode of God); by implication, happiness, power, eternity; specially, the Gospel (Christianity):--air, heaven(-ly), sky.
So to me it means to lay up good works (things we do for the Lord) in heaven, meaning in His eternal kingdom.
As far as the last half of your post, my heart goes out to you. As the mother of three who received child support one month out of 17 years, I do see some thing with different eyes than you. But I do admire your fight for your children and your desire to raise them up to know the Lord. And my prayers are that you and your children will still grow close and you will be able to teach them still and be a part of their lifes. I agree they are a gift from the Lord and are to be treasured.
I'm sorry for your pain. Don't give up. God's word says that He can work all things to the good. Even this.
I'm glad you've made friends here, and even though we may not always agree, like with the scripture above, I would like to consider you a friend, and I'm sure there are lots of others here who feel the same way. It's clear to me that you love the Lord.
God bless you Rusty.
_____________________________
The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower. Psalms 18:2
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RE: Ongoing Bible Study - 7/9/2009 8:51:00 PM
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RustyCarr
Posts: 972
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Thank you, sparlkeingsnow. You, too, are a blessing.
I would simply encourage you to try to confirm Luke 17:21. The kingdom of heaven is within you. Somehow, it just makes so much simple sense to me. I realize that we are in process and sanctification takes some time with our Father in heaven, but this concept helps me discern how to help others in that process of sanctification. Jesus said, "You will know the Truth." If I am trying to help a baby Christian, I need to know "what Truth that they may be missing or misunderstanding. If I can clear it up for their heart, then they move further down the path of sanctification.
Also, Christians are different from the lost because Christians LOVE the Truth. Many non-Christians know the Bible very well, but they don't love God, and His Truth. They usually become very skillful at using and twisting the Truth for their own benefit. They are simply lovers of themselves.
So, it makes sense to me in that Christians are supposed to know, love, and do the Truth that God's Holy Spirit has placed within them. While the lost are oblivious, doing their own thing and causing lots of problems for themselves and others.
Blessings,
Rusty
_____________________________
It is better to obey God rather than men. The Truth, God's word, within is the lamp that guides our feet. -For the Lord gives wisdom, and from His mouth come knowledge and understanding. Prov. 2:6-
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RE: Ongoing Bible Study - 7/9/2009 9:26:45 PM
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sarju60
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From: Originally Iowa now live in Alabama
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Rusty
quote:
Also, Christians are different from the lost because Christians LOVE the Truth. Many non-Christians know the Bible very well, but they don't love God, and His Truth. They usually become very skillful at using and twisting the Truth for their own benefit. They are simply lovers of themselves.
Yes nothing can describe the excitement of a Christian hearing the truth, having what they have read in scripture being confirmed. There is nothing like it. For years I would not read the Bible because I thought I would not be able to understand it. When I finally started reading, I could not put it down! The first verse I read was John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Wondeful!
_____________________________
"Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind, let each esteem others better than himself" (Philippians 2:3 NJKV).
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RE: Ongoing Bible Study - 7/9/2009 9:44:24 PM
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RustyCarr
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Bless you sarju60.
Rusty
_____________________________
It is better to obey God rather than men. The Truth, God's word, within is the lamp that guides our feet. -For the Lord gives wisdom, and from His mouth come knowledge and understanding. Prov. 2:6-
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RE: Ongoing Bible Study - 7/9/2009 10:50:31 PM
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IwillseekHim
Posts: 1778
Joined: 5/17/2009
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Rusty, we may all have a different interpretation of scripture. I've learned that since coming here. But, I do believe we can all agree on one thing, You love the Lord. You have a compassion to see men be Godly men and fathers. This world NEEDS more men like you. Please do not let discouragement set in and cloud your vision. Do not give up now. I, personally, take to heart all that you write. I feel ya. Do not stop what God is doing through you by getting discouraged, please hang in there. Just wanted you to know this.
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RE: Ongoing Bible Study - 7/10/2009 9:24:53 AM
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sparkleingsnow
Posts: 5044
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At your request, I looked at Luke 17:21 again.
Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
I don't disagree that the kingdom of God is within us. His word says it is, and that settles it for me.
As we talked about eailer in the thread the kingdom is used in two ways in scripture. That, that is within us, and His kingdom that is to come and will endure forever.
And I agree with IwillseekHim, Rusty. I'm greatful that you desire to spur more men on to be Godly men and fathers. Oh, how we need them in this world today. May the Lord use you in this.
I think one thing that bothered me was the idea that His kingdom within us was us making happy memories. Making happy memories is something we do, while to my understanding His kingdom within us is something He does.
Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
(Not that He doesn't help us create happy memories.) But perhaps I didn't understand what you were saying?
Your zeal for the Lord shines.
sarju60, I loved your post.
It's cool how the Holy Spirit helps us to understand. I love those Ah-Ha moments when you read something that you've read umteen times and though you understood (in your head), and then You read it again and it speaks to your heart.
IwillseekHim, your right about us sometimes having a different interpretation of scripture. And I would hazard a guess that none of us have it 100% right. But we're not to fuss about it, but to love one another and encourage one another.
_____________________________
The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower. Psalms 18:2
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RE: Ongoing Bible Study - 7/10/2009 10:12:24 AM
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RustyCarr
Posts: 972
Joined: 3/11/2009
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sparkleingsnow
At your request, I looked at Luke 17:21 again.
Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
I don't disagree that the kingdom of God is within us. His word says it is, and that settles it for me.
As we talked about eailer in the thread the kingdom is used in two ways in scripture. That, that is within us, and His kingdom that is to come and will endure forever.
And I agree with IwillseekHim, Rusty. I'm greatful that you desire to spur more men on to be Godly men and fathers. Oh, how we need them in this world today. May the Lord use you in this.
I think one thing that bothered me was the idea that His kingdom within us was us making happy memories. Making happy memories is something we do, while to my understanding His kingdom within us is something He does.
Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
(Not that He doesn't help us create happy memories.) But perhaps I didn't understand what you were saying?
Your zeal for the Lord shines.
sarju60, I loved your post.
It's cool how the Holy Spirit helps us to understand. I love those Ah-Ha moments when you read something that you've read umteen times and though you understood (in your head), and then You read it again and it speaks to your heart.
IwillseekHim, your right about us sometimes having a different interpretation of scripture. And I would hazard a guess that none of us have it 100% right. But we're not to fuss about it, but to love one another and encourage one another.
Cool Post! The Holy Spirit does reveal the Truth to us and during those "Ah Hah" moments I wonder, "Wow! What was wrong with me since I didn't see it before?" LOL
Yes the Word says it, and that settles it! The kingdom of heaven/God is is within us. We have Truth, love, understanding, a King, and a Father within us. Praise the Lord! He covered all bases to make us men and women of God from the inside, not by force from the outside.
quote:
I think one thing that bothered me was the idea that His kingdom within us was us making happy memories. Making happy memories is something we do, while to my understanding His kingdom within us is something He does.
Can I tweak this a little? I think this is along the lines of faith versus works, an argument that has plagued the church probably since its beginning. If we have faith and understanding we will naturally WANT to do good works, stand on the Truth and teach others, especially our offspring. Naturally, wonderful memories will be created while doing those works. But when you say that it is "something He does," it should mean that HE DOES IT FROM WITHIN US. For without His Truth, the Holy Spirit, and our faith and understanding we would NOT BE ABLE TO DO THOSE GOOD WORKS. We would be oblivious, doing our own thing.
Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
Here, I picture Paul looking at the feasts and celebrations enjoyed by the new churches, and even the descendents of Abraham. I think Paul thought people were starting to be belivers just so they could get in on the feasts and celebrations. He had to get them back in line with the Truth. I think that the opposite might be true today. We don't have enough feasts, fellowship, unity, different from the world, gathering together of the family of God. I think we need a social life in the church that is stronger and more committed to one another and to raising up strong confident men of God. Wouldn't our families, and our children especially, love to play and celebrate Love (God) with one another at BBQs, picnics, camp outs, camp meetings, etc? We need some strong leaders here, and some willing followers, WE COULD MAKE A LOT OF WONDERFUL MEMORIES! Treasure in heaven to be stored within us.
Blessings, sparkleingsnow. I'm not fussing, rather I am encouraging and loving....
Rusty
_____________________________
It is better to obey God rather than men. The Truth, God's word, within is the lamp that guides our feet. -For the Lord gives wisdom, and from His mouth come knowledge and understanding. Prov. 2:6-
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RE: Ongoing Bible Study - 7/10/2009 10:35:49 AM
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sparkleingsnow
Posts: 5044
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Loved your post Rusty. And agree with you about our works vrs His works within us. We will agree to disagree about the memories thing, but in love.
Luke 18:15 And they brought unto him also infants, that he would touch them: but when his disciples saw it, they rebuked them.
16 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
17 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.
The faith and trust of a little child is a wonderful thing. And that is how we are to come to Him. Not in our own wisdom but the faith and trut of a little child.
Perhaps thats why I enjoy VBS so much. To see the faith and trust and excitement and joy of the children as their thoughts turn to the Lord and as they worship Him in song. They just light up!
_____________________________
The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower. Psalms 18:2
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RE: Ongoing Bible Study - 7/10/2009 10:46:53 AM
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RustyCarr
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Absolutely! And you are making great memories teaching VBS.
Love ya in Christ,
Rusty
Edit: Oh, and obviously, we need more people like you making wonderful memories and treasuring them in heaven, which is within you. LOL snicker, snicker...
< Message edited by RustyCarr -- 7/10/2009 10:59:26 AM >
_____________________________
It is better to obey God rather than men. The Truth, God's word, within is the lamp that guides our feet. -For the Lord gives wisdom, and from His mouth come knowledge and understanding. Prov. 2:6-
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RE: Ongoing Bible Study - 7/10/2009 11:00:56 AM
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sarju60
Posts: 3791
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From: Originally Iowa now live in Alabama
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IwillseekHim, your right about us sometimes having a different interpretation of scripture. And I would hazard a guess that none of us have it 100% right.
Oh I agree with this. I believe there are areas we can disagree with that are not things that grieve the Lord, whichever way we believe and, of course I think there are areas that we have to be very careful about.
17 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.
The faith and trust of a little child is a wonderful thing. And that is how we are to come to Him. Not in our own wisdom but the faith and trut of a little child.
This is exactly how I came to know our Lord and when I read His word I believed He forgave all my sins past, present, and future. His word spoke to me and I identified with characters like David and Paul, although I realize I don't live up to their walk. I am trying. It is only how some pastors and churches treated me and how confused they were about scripture that caused me doubt. Many of them had never even read their Bibles but judged me on what they thought they were supposed to believe. I don't fault them, honestly, I fault myself because God spoke to my heart through His word and I basically rejected what I knew to be true because man told me it was so. I believe we all have a very personal walk with the Lord. Only He knows our hearts.
Absolutely! And you are making great memories teaching VBS.
Making happy memories is something we do, while to my understanding His kingdom within us is something He does.
And I need further explantion of what you both are getting at, regarding this. I have probably missed something so bear with me.
_____________________________
"Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind, let each esteem others better than himself" (Philippians 2:3 NJKV).
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RE: Ongoing Bible Study - 7/10/2009 11:06:50 AM
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sparkleingsnow
Posts: 5044
Joined: 1/9/2007
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quote:
Edit: Oh, and obviously, we need more people like you making wonderful memories and treasuring them in heaven, which is within you. LOL snicker, snicker...
LOL! 
_____________________________
The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower. Psalms 18:2
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RE: Ongoing Bible Study - 7/10/2009 11:21:55 AM
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sparkleingsnow
Posts: 5044
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sarju60 I'm so sorry for the misguiding that some gave you when you were young. 
But I'm so glad that You came back to the truth that the Lord gave you.
quote:
Absolutely! And you are making great memories teaching VBS.
Making happy memories is something we do, while to my understanding His kingdom within us is something He does.
And I need further explantion of what you both are getting at, regarding this. I have probably missed something so bear with me.
It may be more a matter of the way we word things than anything else. To me, making good memorys is something we do in our own power, like if we take the kids on a picnic and have fun together, we are creating good memorys. While when we do things for others or for the Lord because of His working within us and leading us to do so, I would call good works. It sounds to me more and more like we're saying the same thing only in different ways, but I will let Rusty answer for himself.
_____________________________
The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower. Psalms 18:2
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RE: Ongoing Bible Study - 7/10/2009 5:14:12 PM
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RustyCarr
Posts: 972
Joined: 3/11/2009
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quote:
sarju60 wrote:
Absolutely! And you are making great memories teaching VBS.
Making happy memories is something we do, while to my understanding His kingdom within us is something He does.
And I need further explantion of what you both are getting at, regarding this. I have probably missed something so bear with me.
In my previous posts, sarju60, I was trying to point out that I had a mind blowing understanding of "the kingdom of heaven is within you" combined with the versus "but store up for yourselves treasure in heaven," and Lk 2:19 But Mary treasured up all these things and pondered them in her heart.
Those verses together makes me believe that we "store up treasure in heaven" by making happy and wonderful memories in service to our Lord.
At the time this blew me away, I had a heart full of bad memories. Which were stupid things I had done and painful, hurtful things others had done to me. So I added it up and was enthusiastically wanting to bury the bad memories under a huge pile of good memories (treasure) in heaven, which is in my heart, "within me."
I have a logical and analytical mind. In school I was good at math, too. So let me throw another verse into the "equation" that I mentioned in previous posts.
Jn 15:11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete.
So, let me "complete" this study on the kingdom of God/heaven with the following equations.
Jesus loves me + me loving Jesus + me correctly knowing Jesus = joy.
loving, understanding, and doing the Truth + friends doing the same= joy
loving family, friends, and neighbors + avoiding sin = joy
understanding the Truth confidently + standing firmly against nonsense and deception = joy--This one needs a verse to back it up. Lk 6:22 Blessed are you when men hate you, when they exclude you and insult you and reject your name as evil,because of the Son of Man. Lk 6:23 “Rejoice in that day and leap for joy, because great is your reward in heaven(which is within you). For that is how their fathers treated the prophets.
Confidently teaching children the Truth + loving them + God's love = joy
Confidently teaching adolescents God's definitions of love, morality, and justice + Jesus died for our sins and stupidity = joy
Fellowshipping with mature believers as a light for new believers + Jesus is the way = joy
Feasts and celebrations + worshipping God with all our hearts and all our minds = joy
Unashamedly shouting the Truth from the rooftops + a receptive audience = joy
_____________________________________________________________
TOTAL: A HUGE PILE OF HAPPY MEMORIES TO TREASURE IN HEAVEN WHICH IS WITHIN YOU!
Now, with all the infallible Truth in the Bible concerning the Laws of nature and "love your neghbor," couldn't the church in America be doing a better job standing against the powers, the nonsense, the filth, the deception that is surrounding us and attempting to enslave us physically and mentally (through ignorance).
For contrast, put a "not" in front of any of the parts of the equation above and the outcome equals sadness.... pain and suffering as the natural result of sin and ignorance. And the "total" becomes painful miserable memories in our hearts (where heaven is), a pile of rotten stinking tomatoes instead of treasure.
Example:
(not) loving, understanding, and doing the Truth + friends doing the same = sadness
loving, understanding, and doing the Truth + friends (not) doing the same = sadness
Blessings,
Rusty
< Message edited by RustyCarr -- 7/10/2009 8:10:54 PM >
_____________________________
It is better to obey God rather than men. The Truth, God's word, within is the lamp that guides our feet. -For the Lord gives wisdom, and from His mouth come knowledge and understanding. Prov. 2:6-
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RE: Ongoing Bible Study - 7/10/2009 5:37:13 PM
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sarju60
Posts: 3791
Joined: 2/11/2008
From: Originally Iowa now live in Alabama
Status: offline
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quote:
In my previous posts, sarju60, I was trying to point out that I had a mind blowing understanding of "the kingdom of heaven within you" combined with the versus "but store up for yourselves treasure in heaven." Those together makes me believe that we "store up treasure in heaven" by making happy and wonderful memories in service to our Lord.
At the time this blew me away, I had a heart full of bad memories. Which were stupid things I had done and painful, hurtful things others had done to me. So I added it up and was enthusiastically wanting to bury the bad memories under a huge pile of good memories (treasure) in heaven, which is in my heart, "within me."
OIC and I agree with what you are saying but "store up teasures in heaven" does that have to do with crowns? I have had some say that has to do with crowns. We won't all have the same "rewards" in Heaven, or at least that is one theory I have heard and must admit I don't understand it that well. Is that in essence what you are saying? Having been on both sides of the equation you are putting forth, I have to agree with the joy and joyful memories part. I am sorry to be so thickheaded here. I am sure I am looking too deep. That is one of my bad traits and I don't always hear or see things the way others do. Am always putting my foot in it. LOL
_____________________________
"Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind, let each esteem others better than himself" (Philippians 2:3 NJKV).
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RE: Ongoing Bible Study - 7/10/2009 6:51:22 PM
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RustyCarr
Posts: 972
Joined: 3/11/2009
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sarju60
quote:
In my previous posts, sarju60, I was trying to point out that I had a mind blowing understanding of "the kingdom of heaven within you" combined with the versus "but store up for yourselves treasure in heaven." Those together makes me believe that we "store up treasure in heaven" by making happy and wonderful memories in service to our Lord.
At the time this blew me away, I had a heart full of bad memories. Which were stupid things I had done and painful, hurtful things others had done to me. So I added it up and was enthusiastically wanting to bury the bad memories under a huge pile of good memories (treasure) in heaven, which is in my heart, "within me."
OIC and I agree with what you are saying but "store up teasures in heaven" does that have to do with crowns? I have had some say that has to do with crowns. We won't all have the same "rewards" in Heaven, or at least that is one theory I have heard and must admit I don't understand it that well. Is that in essence what you are saying? Having been on both sides of the equation you are putting forth, I have to agree with the joy and joyful memories part. I am sorry to be so thickheaded here. I am sure I am looking too deep. That is one of my bad traits and I don't always hear or see things the way others do. Am always putting my foot in it. LOL
LOL... It took me a minute to figure out what OIC meant....geeze.. analytical mind, I wonder!
About crowns in heaven. You are thinking of heaven as the place you go after death. That is fine, and I would assume that if you have a huge pile of happy memories serving the Lord while you are alive, then your crown may have more jewels in it. Just thoughts about that, because I am little concerned about what God does with me when I die. I am more concerned about what He wants me to do while I am alive.
If I am busy serving Him with others serving Him, we should be making happy memories here and now while we can. Things in our churches and our world would be a lot better, less misunderstanding, quarreling, and more harmony and love on God's page, the Truth.
You aren't putting your foot in it. I believe the decades of babies milk teaching coming from pulpits has been focused too much on "heaven" and "hell" after death. These preachers haven't even been there to know what they are talking about. The Bible is the instruction book for life now, while we are alive. I just found a way to reward ourselves as we serve God now. We store up treasure (happy memories free of sin and painful consequences) in heaven (which is within us according to Lk. 17:21) That would be one of my focuses if I was a preacher.
We do have a choice now, too. We can choose to disregard God's love and wisdom and suffer the "hell" that comes from hurting ourselves and others, and others hurting us by their sins against us. We can suffer "Hell" now by disregarding, or we can enjoy more harmony, peace, and love among our family of God by loving and obeying God now. Life is what we make of it plus what others do to us that might ruin it. I can't control others, but I sure would love to hang out with some peace, harmony, and love coming from my brothers and sisters in Christ. Again, from my vantage point America's churches aren't getting it. They aren't getting fed the full and simple Truth, thereby they are powerless against the enemy and confused by so much bad things happening to them and others who claim to be Christians. The Bible says you will know the Truth, but those teaching it for decades are stuck in a rut. Jesus said, "Go and preach the kingdom of heaven is near." He didn't say "Go preach hellfire and damnation." He didn't say, "Go preach fluffy fog feel good theology that excuses sin and ignorance and puts people to sleep in the fog thinking 'all is well' while the wolves are devouring their lambs." It is near, you don't have to die to find it, it is within you. Lk. 17:21 nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God/heaven is within you.” Remember, a previous post established that the authors of the gospels were speaking of the same thing when they referred to 'kingdom of God" and "kingdom of heaven."
Mt 10:7 As you go, preach this message: ‘The kingdom of heaven is near.’
We have been promised many mansions in heaven after we die, but first we must be doing our Father's business, now. And in doing His business now, we will be making happy memories and creating a huge pile of treasure in heaven (which is within you.)
Blessings,
Rusty
Edit Oh, and my heart grieves for the children of parents who don't know how to love them and give them a head full of happy memories. Joy comes from loving and living under God's rules. Many parents simply haven't been taught about Jesus. That is what I gather from those TV commercials and just going about my neighborhood. We, the church, need to find a way to reach them and teach them, the parents and the children. Matt 28:19,20 God is love. 1john 4:8 More people need to know God. Perhaps our churches need to set a better example doing the Truth and standing up for it.
< Message edited by RustyCarr -- 7/10/2009 7:22:03 PM >
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It is better to obey God rather than men. The Truth, God's word, within is the lamp that guides our feet. -For the Lord gives wisdom, and from His mouth come knowledge and understanding. Prov. 2:6-
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RE: Ongoing Bible Study - 7/10/2009 9:27:28 PM
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sarju60
Posts: 3791
Joined: 2/11/2008
From: Originally Iowa now live in Alabama
Status: offline
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Oh and it is that simple then isn't it. I have often wondered how people can profess to be and appear to be so happy when they don't know the Lord. All you are saying is that we are going to miss out on a lot of joy if we aren't about God's work and I know that to be true but why then are we so successful in dodging what God wants us to do. The heaven within us, the kingdom of God within us is right there and we know it and all Christians have experienced the joy of service but still most of us continue to fight doing what would make us happiest. Would it matter what kind of service? Are you talking about specific kinds of service or just "when God says jump we say how high? I think we all know when He wants us to do something.
They aren't getting fed the full and simple Truth, thereby they are powerless against the enemy and confused by so much bad things happening to them and others who claim to be Christians.
I believe the decades of babies milk teaching coming from pulpits has been focused too much on "heaven" and "hell" after death. These preachers haven't even been there to know what they are talking about. The Bible is the instruction book for life now, while we are alive.
I believe this to be true also. I have been to about seven churches in my adult life. I have seen two good pastors. WOW when they preached, you learned! You were convicted. You learned about the love of Jesus. The first one they ran out of town on a rail because he loved everyone and he wanted the congregation to love others too. I experienced the Kingdom of Heaven and stil have those glorious memories while he was there. The second one is in the church we are now attending. I am elated over the prospect of how I may be of service there.
If we, as Christians, who know the glory of serving God, the wonderful reward we receive, still fight against doing his work then how are we to make new believers or non-believers understand it?
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"Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind, let each esteem others better than himself" (Philippians 2:3 NJKV).
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