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RE: Gifting your leadership in the church - 7/2/2009 4:34:52 PM
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DeliveredDarling
Posts: 1781
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quote:
For some reason, I cannot get this scenario out of my head. I guess the disparity is just overwhelming me. You have a pastor who needs assistance to purchase suits, and you have a music minister who is about to receive a $15000 boat. Does this strike anyone else as extremely misguided?
It's crossed my mind too! Why the preacher receiving a need and the MM getting a boat!
I remember at Christmas, it wasn't that he couldn't afford the suits, because he can. In order to replace them all at one time, would have been burdensome on his family. This we were more than happy to do! It was filling a need.
The boat, any way you slice it, is just NOT a need....
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Gifting your leadership in the church - 7/2/2009 4:45:54 PM
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DeliveredDarling
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I can really justify that one. The man has 5 kids and a wife on a preacher's salary. He lives very modestly and makes huge sacrifices for his kids.
The letter did say that The MM has sacrificed all these years, by not getting a boat. So, the leadership decided that he needed one.
I don't know, it's not like it was a decision about his salary. 30 years is a long time of service. I call that obedience!
Maybe, my thinking is warped??????
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Gifting your leadership in the church - 7/3/2009 11:44:45 AM
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stampinlady
Posts: 2587
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Northern IL
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I'm just curious, why a boat?
_____________________________
Deb
"When the fufillment comes the types and shadows cease."
Author unknown
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RE: Gifting your leadership in the church - 7/3/2009 3:50:37 PM
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DeliveredDarling
Posts: 1781
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quote:
I'm just curious, why a boat?
The letter said because he has sacrificed all these years his desire to have one. He enjoys the fun a boat brings and the opportunity to spend more time with his family!
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Gifting your leadership in the church - 7/3/2009 4:26:23 PM
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DeliveredDarling
Posts: 1781
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quote:
I live very modestly and have four kids for who I make sacrifices. Why don't I get a clothing allowance? Oh yeah, I just study the Scriptures, discuss them with those around me and help the poor. I haven't been appointed to perform ceremonies and stand up in front of a group when I speak.
I'm not following your line of thinking here. The distaste I have for this is the amount of money spent on a luxury item. Not that I am slamming people possessing these items. I find it to be less than desirable for the church to gift these items. A gift of appreciation doesn't need to be so extravagant. Is it a fabulous thing to do? Of course it is. Is a boat an extravagant gift to receive? Obviously.
Now let's carry this a step further. On the next anniversary of a servant, what will be rolling around in the back of their minds? Will they get a boat? A car? A house? Money to total a small lottery? If I was in leadership, what would I expect? This could be a stumbling block, opening the doors for hurt feelings not to mention greed. We all know it should not be this way-however, we do know the human nature too! There are many reasons this is the wrong way to go about expressing appreciation for so many years of service.
It's not about what kind of man he is or how well he served or didn't serve. It's about the gift itself and the (lack) of thinking behind it. I have no doubt that when the idea was presented, only the positive was focused on. I just think they lacked some critical thinking.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Gifting your leadership in the church - 7/3/2009 8:01:06 PM
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Qtman
Posts: 6322
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From: Crimson Tide Country
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There are a lot of if's here that I don't know so I can't really take a stand. A boat does seem on the face of it to be extravagant. It the Minister of Music a paid position? If he was there for 30 years did he draw a salary all those years? If not a 15,000 boat for 30 years of service is a small price.
I said that because I accepted the position of Minister of Music at a country church many years back. The Church was struggling financialy. I refused any salary. However, they did take up offerings at Christmas time and bought me gifts that I am sure some thought extravagant.
I do believe however that any minister at a church should not expect to live above the style of his congregation. At least not on the church payroll. JMHO
I N T
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At one time Jesus was my co-pilot. Things are much better now that He and I have changed seats.
<Me & my happyplate at Lobster Hut
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RE: Gifting your leadership in the church - 7/3/2009 10:00:37 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 6366
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From: Truth Project
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
The letter did say that The MM has sacrificed all these years, by not getting a boat. So, the leadership decided that he needed one.
So let the leadership pay for it...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Gifting your leadership in the church - 7/4/2009 2:48:13 PM
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DeliveredDarling
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quote:
It the Minister of Music a paid position? If he was there for 30 years did he draw a salary all those years?
Yes, it is a paid position. That's the other aspect of my problem with it....
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Gifting your leadership in the church - 7/4/2009 2:49:53 PM
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DeliveredDarling
Posts: 1781
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quote:
So let the leadership pay for it...
That's kinda funny in a harsh way!]
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Gifting your leadership in the church - 7/4/2009 5:58:38 PM
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DeliveredDarling
Posts: 1781
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Yes, I love his music and I love him! RC, I really have no idea what an appropriate gift for 30 years of service would be.....So, since I have no alternate gift ideas.....I probably should just keep my mouth shut. That I am thankful I have done (within my on church). I needed guidance and I truly appreciate it!
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Gifting your leadership in the church - 7/4/2009 7:26:01 PM
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sharonjef2007
Posts: 2302
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
Yes, I love his music and I love him! RC, I really have no idea what an appropriate gift for 30 years of service would be.....So, since I have no alternate gift ideas.....I probably should just keep my mouth shut. That I am thankful I have done (within my on church). I needed guidance and I truly appreciate it!
An appropriate gift for 30 years of service? How about a pot luck dinner and some extra vacation days or such. The only time I have ever heard of someone getting a perk like a car or boat have been big time executives of large for profit companies.
If it were my church, I would not be giving! Not a penny..... And, if I were the MM and the church gave me a boat, I would not accept it.
_____________________________
my blog......Picture This.......
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RE: Gifting your leadership in the church - 7/4/2009 8:31:36 PM
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Sideways
Posts: 3364
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
Seriously, what do you think would be an appropriate gift for 30 years of service?
Thanks
RC
In all seriousness, I would say a gift of no more then 1,000 dollars worth. He's been honestly compensated for his work the past 30 years (I know he probably wasn't paid a lot and he didn't do it for the money), but a gift is just supposed to be a nice little token of appreciation. He isn't owed a freakin' boat.
_____________________________
Row, row, row your boat, gently down the stream. If you see a crocodile, don't forget to scream.
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RE: Gifting your leadership in the church - 7/5/2009 1:14:53 AM
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ironsharpensiron
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From: Los Angeles
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Don't most companies give a gold watch then show the door..? 
Matthew
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"As iron sharpens iron, so a man sharpens the countenance of his friend." Proverbs 27:17
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RE: Gifting your leadership in the church - 7/5/2009 1:30:39 PM
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Sideways
Posts: 3364
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
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Not having air conditioning and charging for parking could have a strong impact on how many bums are in the seats on Sunday, then they'd have less money. I don't mind a nice gift after 30 years of service, but this is extreme in my opinion. Since when are ministers owed a tip?
_____________________________
Row, row, row your boat, gently down the stream. If you see a crocodile, don't forget to scream.
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RE: Gifting your leadership in the church - 7/5/2009 1:31:56 PM
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DeliveredDarling
Posts: 1781
Joined: 8/30/2007
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quote:
All I am saying is thet the 15 grand works out to about three dollars per service that he has led the music. And when you figure in the practice time, preparation time, Not much of a bonus.
I didn't even consider the math...Well put and thank you for putting that in perspective!
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Gifting your leadership in the church - 7/5/2009 3:13:19 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 6366
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Truth Project
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: sharonjef2007
Ha Ha RC.....you hoping for a boat too?  Just kidding!
Really though, couldn't $15,000 be of a lot more use....say in ministry or the community? Maybe buy him and his family a day rental on a boat?
You bring up a good point (and by the way I am not pushing for the guy to get a boat), but could they not turn off the airconditioning, charge for parking, etc. etc. and have more monery for other things. Each group has to make those decisions about what they feel is important. All I am saying is thet the 15 grand works out to about three dollars per service that he has led the music. And when you figure in the practice time, preparation time, Not much of a bonus.
Thanks
RC
They are not asking for 3 dollars, but $15,000 and it's from the pulpit which means undo influence comes into play, in that some folks because of how it was done will feel pressured to give... Isn't serving the Lord "bonus" enough?
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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