|
|
|
|
|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: Gifting your leadership in the church - 7/31/2009 10:01:15 AM
|
|
|
iluvatar
Posts: 3045
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: ironsharpensiron
quote:
He received the boat and it is beautiful. he was truly surprised and overwhelmed by the gift.
My concern is what new believer's will take from this. Or for that matter the volunteers who are extremely dedicated, but don't get much of a 'thank you for your service.'
Hmmm...don't really know what to think myself...I'm bordering on disapointment, and wonderment...
Matthew
I don't think I've ever attended a church that didn't occasionally have some sort of "pastor appreciation" <thing>, be it a dinner or gift or something else. The pastor has always been paid a salary and there have always been volunteers that don't get such treatment. My church gave me a gift certificate after I spent a fair amount of time evaluating proposals for a new sound system, but it paled in comparison to the tv they got the pastor last year, which is ok with me - the pastor does WAY more for the church than I do and certainly doesn't live a lavish lifestyle.
If the volunteers bust their butts all week and then get disregarded, I think you'd have a point. But if they treat all of their volunteers with respect, I think a bad attitude would be the responsibility of the volunteer, not the church.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Gifting your leadership in the church - 7/31/2009 12:25:53 PM
|
|
|
ironsharpensiron
Posts: 1395
Joined: 4/21/2006
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline
|
I am perfectly fine with 'appreciating,' we do it all the time. I am concerned with the extravagance of the gift, not in giving a gift.
Matthew
_____________________________
"As iron sharpens iron, so a man sharpens the countenance of his friend." Proverbs 27:17
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Gifting your leadership in the church - 7/31/2009 1:26:57 PM
|
|
|
WesP
Posts: 1440
Joined: 11/28/2005
From: Where God needs me to be
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
He received the boat and it is beautiful. he was truly surprised and overwhelmed by the gift.
Did donations cover the entire cost, or did they have to use church funds?
_____________________________
Peace,
Wes
___________________________________
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Gifting your leadership in the church - 7/31/2009 2:28:24 PM
|
|
|
DeliveredDarling
Posts: 1781
Joined: 8/30/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
Did donations cover the entire cost, or did they have to use church funds?
That I do not know. I know they were still taking donations up until they gave it to him.
To be honest, I just dropped it. I didn't want to know anymore. I seemed to have been the only one with a problem with it. If others did, they kept quiet about it and I certainly didn't go around talking about it. I was told by a trusted friend, when I asked him about it, to leave it alone--all is on the up and up. So, I let it go.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Gifting your leadership in the church - 7/31/2009 2:37:14 PM
|
|
|
rcjames
Posts: 6721
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: WesP
quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
He received the boat and it is beautiful. he was truly surprised and overwhelmed by the gift.
Did donations cover the entire cost, or did they have to use church funds?
Would that really matter in the sight of;
(Act 4:34) Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
(Act 4:35) And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.
(Act 4:36) And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus,
(Act 4:37) Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles' feet.
Now we may discuss about what is a need, but there should be no discussion about that folks have strings attatched to to where what they give is used; that is up to the leadership.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Gifting your leadership in the church - 7/31/2009 2:43:40 PM
|
|
|
WesP
Posts: 1440
Joined: 11/28/2005
From: Where God needs me to be
Status: offline
|
quote:
Now we may discuss about what is a need
That would be why I have a problem with it. There is no way to justify it as a need, and, in that case, church money should not have been used to make the purchase without congregational support of the venture. However, since she does not know if church money was used, I cannot comment further on whether it was right or wrong.
_____________________________
Peace,
Wes
___________________________________
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Gifting your leadership in the church - 7/31/2009 3:08:51 PM
|
|
|
rcjames
Posts: 6721
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: WesP
quote:
Now we may discuss about what is a need
That would be why I have a problem with it. There is no way to justify it as a need, and, in that case, church money should not have been used to make the purchase without congregational support of the venture. However, since she does not know if church money was used, I cannot comment further on whether it was right or wrong.
How about a Scripture or two that says the leadership must justify what they do with the "Free will" offerings to the folks that gave it?
Scripture seems to say there is not justification necessary.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Gifting your leadership in the church - 7/31/2009 3:46:22 PM
|
|
|
WesP
Posts: 1440
Joined: 11/28/2005
From: Where God needs me to be
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: WesP
quote:
Now we may discuss about what is a need
That would be why I have a problem with it. There is no way to justify it as a need, and, in that case, church money should not have been used to make the purchase without congregational support of the venture. However, since she does not know if church money was used, I cannot comment further on whether it was right or wrong.
How about a Scripture or two that says the leadership must justify what they do with the "Free will" offerings to the folks that gave it?
Scripture seems to say there is not justification necessary.
Thanks
RC
It has been my experience in churches that offerings are designated in the budget as to purpose. I do not know of any heading on any budget that I have seen that would include a boat as a gift. Extra expenditures have always been voted on by the members. Sorry, I do not have scriptures. I just figured that most churches operated that way except for some of the larger, wealthier ones.
_____________________________
Peace,
Wes
___________________________________
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Gifting your leadership in the church - 7/31/2009 3:51:56 PM
|
|
|
rcjames
Posts: 6721
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: WesP
It has been my experience in churches that offerings are designated in the budget as to purpose. I do not know of any heading on any budget that I have seen that would include a boat as a gift. Extra expenditures have always been voted on by the members. Sorry, I do not have scriptures. I just figured that most churches operated that way except for some of the larger, wealthier ones.
Since you are evidently not familiar with the Chruch leadership in question; then again I ask you for Scripture support for keeping a string attatched to "Free will" offerings.
Also how about some Scriptue about what or what not funds be spent on.
No Scriptures; not point to make.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Gifting your leadership in the church - 7/31/2009 4:03:29 PM
|
|
|
DeliveredDarling
Posts: 1781
Joined: 8/30/2007
Status: offline
|
Well, now RC, would the parable of the talents qualify for this discussion?
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Gifting your leadership in the church - 7/31/2009 4:04:00 PM
|
|
|
WesP
Posts: 1440
Joined: 11/28/2005
From: Where God needs me to be
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: WesP
It has been my experience in churches that offerings are designated in the budget as to purpose. I do not know of any heading on any budget that I have seen that would include a boat as a gift. Extra expenditures have always been voted on by the members. Sorry, I do not have scriptures. I just figured that most churches operated that way except for some of the larger, wealthier ones.
Since you are evidently not familiar with the Chruch leadership in question; then again I ask you for Scripture support for keeping a string attatched to "Free will" offerings.
Also how about some Scriptue about what or what not funds be spent on.
No Scriptures; not point to make.
Thanks
RC
Sorry I spoke, sir.
_____________________________
Peace,
Wes
___________________________________
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Gifting your leadership in the church - 7/31/2009 7:12:44 PM
|
|
|
rcjames
Posts: 6721
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
Well, now RC, would the parable of the talents qualify for this discussion?
How would you tie it in to gifting for leadership DD?
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Gifting your leadership in the church - 7/31/2009 7:13:47 PM
|
|
|
rcjames
Posts: 6721
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: WesP
Sorry I spoke, sir.
Oh shucks, don't pick up your toys and go home.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Gifting your leadership in the church - 7/31/2009 8:20:40 PM
|
|
|
sharonjef2007
Posts: 2302
Joined: 4/10/2007
Status: offline
|
Offerings and tithes are meant for, and always have been meant for, sustaining the leadership of the church (in most cases today, the pastor) and to run the church in order to do ministry. Yes, when I give money to the church, I am giving my tithe back to God. It is up to God to use that money in the way that He sees fit.
However, I can not imagine for the life of me that God would be ok with $15,000 of HIS money being used to buy a luxery item for the music minister. I can't get past how that money could be such a massive blessing to those in the community who are hurting. How many people could you feed with that money? How many people can you clothe? How many can you help pay their gas and electic this winter when the economy is still tanked and the heat gets turned off? How many new ministry opportunies could that money open up?
If someone stood up and had the money and said, I'm gonna buy the MM a boat....that is one thing. For the church, whos mission should be evangelism and ministry, I still think this gift is way excessive and shows very poor stewardship. How is buying the MM a boat fulfilling the directive to "go and make disciples?"
_____________________________
my blog......Picture This.......
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Gifting your leadership in the church - 7/31/2009 9:13:41 PM
|
|
|
iluvatar
Posts: 3045
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
quote:
How would you tie it in to gifting for leadership DD?
Well, that's why I'm asking. I'm thinking of the lesson with the talents. How only one of them was responsible with the money.
Two of them were responsible - two of the three each doubled their money. Only one sat on it.
quote:
ORIGINAL: sharonjef2007
However, I can not imagine for the life of me that God would be ok with $15,000 of HIS money being used to buy a luxery item for the music minister. I can't get past how that money could be such a massive blessing to those in the community who are hurting. How many people could you feed with that money? How many people can you clothe? How many can you help pay their gas and electic this winter when the economy is still tanked and the heat gets turned off? How many new ministry opportunies could that money open up?
If someone stood up and had the money and said, I'm gonna buy the MM a boat....that is one thing. For the church, whos mission should be evangelism and ministry, I still think this gift is way excessive and shows very poor stewardship. How is buying the MM a boat fulfilling the directive to "go and make disciples?"
I think something like this actually came up once. In John 12, Mary dumped a $35,000 bottle of perfume on Jesus' feet.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Gifting your leadership in the church - 7/31/2009 10:08:45 PM
|
|
|
DeliveredDarling
Posts: 1781
Joined: 8/30/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
Two of them were responsible - two of the three each doubled their money. Only one sat on it.
Ooops, i didn't look it up and I should have....my memory failed me!
quote:
In John 12, Mary dumped a $35,000 bottle of perfume on Jesus' feet.
That would be an, "I gotcha" comment if it weren't for the fact that Jesus is the Messiah and died for the world's sin.
The music minister did not. A huge difference in my opinion.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Gifting your leadership in the church - 7/31/2009 10:54:05 PM
|
|
|
sharonjef2007
Posts: 2302
Joined: 4/10/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
That would be an, "I gotcha" comment if it weren't for the fact that Jesus is the Messiah and died for the world's sin.
The music minister did not. A huge difference in my opinion.
Give me my words back! Now, if she had done that to Paul or something, that might set a different standard. But none of us can compare ourselves to Christ in that way. None of us are worthy of that!
_____________________________
my blog......Picture This.......
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Gifting your leadership in the church - 8/1/2009 1:12:15 AM
|
|
|
ironsharpensiron
Posts: 1395
Joined: 4/21/2006
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline
|
quote:
Offerings and tithes are meant for, and always have been meant for, sustaining the leadership of the church (in most cases today, the pastor) and to run the church in order to do ministry. Yes, when I give money to the church, I am giving my tithe back to God. It is up to God to use that money in the way that He sees fit.
However, I can not imagine for the life of me that God would be ok with $15,000 of HIS money being used to buy a luxery item for the music minister. I can't get past how that money could be such a massive blessing to those in the community who are hurting. How many people could you feed with that money? How many people can you clothe? How many can you help pay their gas and electic this winter when the economy is still tanked and the heat gets turned off? How many new ministry opportunies could that money open up?
If someone stood up and had the money and said, I'm gonna buy the MM a boat....that is one thing. For the church, whos mission should be evangelism and ministry, I still think this gift is way excessive and shows very poor stewardship. How is buying the MM a boat fulfilling the directive to "go and make disciples?"
These are my thoughts as well.
I haven't checked if there are any scriptures for or against such extravagances to be bestowed upon church leadership, although it would seem to me that it could send a wrong message. Prosperity is alive and well while the poor remain in need...
Now don't get me wrong, I have nothing against bestowing gifts to leadership/volunteers and such ~~ I'm a preachers kid so I totally understand. I'd really like to know how a $15,000 boat will glorify our Lord, and work for the kingdom...
Matthew
_____________________________
"As iron sharpens iron, so a man sharpens the countenance of his friend." Proverbs 27:17
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Gifting your leadership in the church - 8/1/2009 3:43:44 PM
|
|
|
truthrevealed
Posts: 719
Joined: 12/6/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
However, I can not imagine for the life of me that God would be ok with $15,000 of HIS money being used to buy a luxery item for the music minister. I can't get past how that money could be such a massive blessing to those in the community who are hurting. How many people could you feed with that money? How many people can you clothe? How many can you help pay their gas and electic this winter when the economy is still tanked and the heat gets turned off? How many new ministry opportunies could that money open up?
Interesting point. I'm still wanting to see what scripture says. Because, aside from the Word, no human can set the standard...right? Well, you can...but........only God's Word will stand...not ours nor our opinions 
For instance, yes, there are poor people in the community. Does that mean people who "minister" should only drive a certain type of car? restrict themselves to certain food? No steaks for dinner only spam  because some people in the community have little or no food to eat? Should ministers shop at certain places for clothes---say thrift stores or K-mart because there are people in the community living hand to mouth? Where in the bible does God make mention of what is acceptable and what is the "limit monetarily" as to how we bless others and/or what ministers are allowed to live on. 'cause God, for instance pretty much hooked JOB up....twice. The second round double what he had before. Did not God consider the poor who lived in JOB's community? and was JOB a minister  ?
_____________________________
I'll tell the world....where--ever I go. That I, have found, a Savior....and He's sweet I know!!!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Gifting your leadership in the church - 8/1/2009 3:50:24 PM
|
|
|
DeliveredDarling
Posts: 1781
Joined: 8/30/2007
Status: offline
|
Extravagance is the issue here.
Achurch requesting iy's members to give to this cause or that cause, support missions, support the local mission team, etc, ect, and doesn't meet those goals---SHOULD NOT REQUEST $15,0000 to buy the MM a boat!
The requests signal the tremedous amount of need in our community!
Hello??????? Is this really a matter of rocket science?
How in the world does it make sense?
Let the poor remain poor, but by darned OUR MM has a brand new boat!
I'm so proud of my church right now........
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Gifting your leadership in the church - 8/1/2009 4:12:56 PM
|
|
|
truthrevealed
Posts: 719
Joined: 12/6/2007
Status: offline
|
delivered, but where in scripture does God outline His view of what's acceptable and not in this regard? Because God is quite extravagant as demonstrated with a number of people in the bible. And by the demonstration of His own AWESOME character
_____________________________
I'll tell the world....where--ever I go. That I, have found, a Savior....and He's sweet I know!!!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Gifting your leadership in the church - 8/1/2009 5:55:18 PM
|
|
|
DeliveredDarling
Posts: 1781
Joined: 8/30/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
God is quite extravagant as demonstrated with a number of people in the bible. And by the demonstration of His own AWESOME character
God is absolutely! However, the PEOPLE are making the decisions---big difference.
I would have no problem with any of this if, we woke up one day and a big boat was sitting in the mm driveway.
That's not how this particular idea worked! An idea was formed, thought about and decided on.
The things God does--He does it. People can pretend all they want they can be God and make decisions like the above mentioned...It doesn't mean it was from God.
People still decide. I just don't believe that knowing the need that is in our community, God would over look that to give the mm a boat. It seems quite contrary to biblical principals.
What biblical principals, you might ask???
Responsibility, giving to the poor, feeding the hungry, taking care of the orphaned and widows.
These are biggies in the NT and old if you want to get really technical.....
Our rewards are not on this earth, how many times have we been told this?
Is it really a blessing or is it a "seeming" blessing because it was thought up and brought forth by human hands?
I know everything is given by God, however there is the part that is played out by human hands, called choice. God doesn't interfere in our choices.
Just sayin'.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
. 
)
